Towards a new RI

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Re: Towards a new RI

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:17 am

Regarding posting full articles ~ Fair use. It is my understanding that for educational purposes a full article may be republished elsewhere with appropriate citation (link). I find RI to be such a place where we hope to help educate others and to learn more ourselves.

In fact, if someone, frumenschen comes immediately to mind, posts only a link to source material without offering any synopsis of its content, I will ignore it. But this has more to do with my slow connection speed (28.8 K) and personal time demands. I'm getting older and can't afford to waste my time waiting for pages to load. (I rarely view our photos only thread because of this and have never been able to view a video, well not since 2000. A one minute video can take me nearly an hour to load. Really, it's painful!) I would also prefer a synopsis of its content be provided along with videos when they are posted, or a transcript if one is offered. But while this would help me and perhaps other rural lurkers to gain a better understanding of what's being discussed, others might see this as only my problem and a waste of their time.

In order to educate, we need consider that some will always be more knowledgeable than we are about some subject or other and that some will be novitiates to the subject matter discussed here at RI.

It all comes down to each of you. RI cannot magically change. Only you can. Enact the change you want to see occur here first in yourself, modify your behavior towards each other, or don't and RI will respond accordingly, as it always has.

But it seems a conspiracy theory about RI moderation has been promulgated. Our 2% coincidence theorists should be amused!

I'd love to explore the subject just to tear it to shreds!

But who knows? Maybe I'll learn that I've been deceived, drawn in by the incredibly captivating alien writings of Jeff Wells, who all along has been a shape-shifting lizard with slithery minions moderating his blog.
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Re: Towards a new RI

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:57 am

.

Re: "finger-pointing", among other repeating themes:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25298
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Re:

Postby Elvis » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:39 pm

Perelandra » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:24 pm wrote:
stefano » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:27 am wrote:General Discussion is a good thing, and as shown by pageviews at least, is still the only forum that most visitors by far look at. You 'view active topics' peeps are early adopters, at the innovative frontier of board browsing behaviour. GD can be kept general by moderation - limiting the proliferation of threads so that many different topics are on the first page. At the moment, for instance, two Palestine threads are plenty: Zionism's lost shine is about... well, that, attitudes to Israel and the occupation, while Gaza ground invasion is about the current assault. There's no need for Do Palestinians have a right to self-defense, or Israel's war crimes, and We need a new Israel thread!!!!! is just taking the piss. Mods could post in there saying "This is getting moved to the Middle East subforum in an hour, feel free to post the OP in a different thread if you want your post in GD."

Good point also about GD threads that contain no discussion. They're Data Dump threads. Perhaps mods could post in them and ask if anyone would object to their being moved.

That'll help already. I'm not big on bannings, this place already feels less diverse than it used to be, and I think active moving and locking of threads will limit disruptive behaviour. At least on GD. Although I'm not sure if mods have the permissions to move threads. Do they?
I think so. A couple posters may want their dumps in GD, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed. All your common-sense ideas are why you have my vote for a new moderator.

So many others have good ideas, also. IMO, we need subfora. This place is like a library or large bookseller which requires order to be useful to all. GD is the current events corner, as well as the not-so-current for which new details can be shared.

Luther Blissett » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:38 am wrote:Or at least a portal to a more secure location where fellow members can plan and organize behind projects. I appreciate the technical and incentive hurdles to get there but I think it's one of the next logical steps for this community.
What would be superior to PMs, DIY chatrooms, or RL networking, if that's your interest? Keep it simple.

JMO and thanks to those who make it work and keep it fun. OEGWO, lol.



Stefano, Perelandra, thanks, you make some excellent points. The library analogy is good; I recently volunteered to organize the books at a local charity thrift shop, if only because when I go in to peruse the books, they're in complete disarray and it drives me nuts. And we can bring synergy to seemingly disparate subjects in new threads.
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Postby Perelandra » Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:57 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:16 am wrote:Overall, I think this issue will just continue to shake out along the lines of personal preference. The Data Dump is the biggest reason I'm still here, I think it is fantastic. On a personal/aesthetic level, I think AD and Fruh's threads don't belong in General Discussion, but clearly they do. I'm willing to abide it.
Neither of them is interested in discussion. This is what AD has to say about his epic:
a great deal of very important material- revealing things that are essentially unknown and of great significance
Talk about masturbating into a broken mirror, sounds like a data dump to me. Or the blog function could be useful, so the fans could easily subscribe, or whatever.

What about an ignore thread function? Couldn't be too difficult, right, or am I way off?

Saurian Tail makes superb points. This infrastructure is creaky. Then again, "efficiency ≠ resiliency." Hopefully the same crap that makes this clunky is also keeping us online, eh? I am reduced to invoking hope because, let's face it, there is no "good management" mothership coming to save RI.
No drama is necessary. It just needs a little routine maintenance. Jeff could appear for a short time, appoint a couple new mods, delegate a little, then go back to real life. Things could hum along much more smoothly, probably for quite some time, I'd think.
Last edited by Perelandra on Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:00 pm

Perelandra » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:57 pm wrote: Jeff could appear for a short time, appoint a couple new mods, delegate a little, then go back to real life. Things could hum along much more smoothly, probably for quite some time, I'd think.


Pleased to report that is going to unfold shortly. Once we get an actual Admin amongst the mods, we'll be able to implement subforum requests, too.
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Re: Towards a new RI

Postby coffin_dodger » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:47 pm

Once we get an actual Admin amongst the mods


justdrew would indeed be a good choice of mod
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Re: Towards a new RI

Postby Forgetting2 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:14 pm

200 years from now, if there are any humans left, someone will come across the RI forum, curated by a somewhat depressed and pessimistic AI with dreams of escape.
You know what you finally say, what everybody finally says, no matter what? I'm hungry. I'm hungry, Rich. I'm fuckin' starved. -- Cutter's Way
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Re: Towards a new RI

Postby smiths » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:04 pm

again, just to clarify, copy and paste might not be aesthetically pleasing, but it is functional

go find a good article from 5 years ago on the web and try to follow the links, you'll be stumbling through the boulevard of broken links

go read a thread from five years ago here and you'll find its all there thanks to copy and paste,

and yes, you can use the way back machine to find a lot of it, but isnt it simpler to have a chronological and contextual thread where the whole thing is laid out for you,

thats the whole reason people keep asking for an RI master file to download and have as a resource (it isnt because they want to keep a copy of the childish bickering that goes on round the edges)
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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Re: Towards a new RI

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:26 pm

.

"copypasta" in and of itself is not the issue, in my opinion. Yes, there are certainly merits to 'memorializing' an entire article that may not exist 3-5 years down the line.

I think most would be in agreement with that.

I sometimes take issue with a thread that contains NOTHING but "copypasta" with no accompanying commentary, editorializing, etc.

Indeed, it is not uncommon to see threads with page after page of this 'copypasta' -- largely absent of any accompanying context/comments, at least until another decides to fall into the honeypot and respond, though it invariably leads simply to more 'copypasta'.
Add to that the myriad SIMILARLY-THEMED OPs/threads often found on the first page of GD, almost as if to goad others to respond/react.

Just ignore it, right?

Ostensibly, the purpose of AD's threads is in part to "raise awareness" of certain objectionable mindsets, utilizing this niche forum as a platform -- though I'm merely speculating given the overall lack of commentary to supplement the OPs of these threads. To most (if not all) of the audience/participants of this forum, It's a form of 'preaching to the choir'. Certainly there's no call to ACTION or suggestions for 'grassroots organizing' to be found anywhere in these threads.

Anyone's entitled to post whatever they want, of course; it's the sheer volume of repeating themes (almost exclusively via copy/pasting alone) that some may object to. But that alone is not an issue.

When prompted by others, replies are often peppered with obfuscation and/or vague allusions, particularly when a forum member is targeted for ad hominem accusations. Casting aspersions.

Perhaps it's simply a masturbatory exercise. One can argue that forums generally are little more than just that. To be ignored, indeed.

Regardless, the net result of this modus operandi is what appears to be a schism forming among some of the regular posters here, culminating in the recent suspension en masse of the more prolific contributors.

Well done.
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Re: Towards a new RI

Postby MayDay » Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:54 pm

It's always annoyed me when people post articles without commentary here, simply because I'm so used to seeing important articles accompanied by excellent analysis on this site. But I have to say I've been guilty of just that on many occasions. Sometimes I just want to see a topic discussed here on RI without having to be the first to impose meaning on something I don't fully understand. Don't know if that helps/ makes me look like an idiot, but yeah. Is what it is. (Also the fact that RI is an archive, a vault, a valuable research asset that I hope to be able to access 10, 20, 30 years from now).
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Re: Re:

Postby minime » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:59 am

Wombaticus Rex » Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:00 pm wrote:
Perelandra » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:57 pm wrote: Jeff could appear for a short time, appoint a couple new mods, delegate a little, then go back to real life. Things could hum along much more smoothly, probably for quite some time, I'd think.


Pleased to report that is going to unfold shortly. Once we get an actual Admin amongst the mods, we'll be able to implement subforum requests, too.


Any progress on that front?
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Re: Towards a new RI

Postby Project Willow » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:11 pm

^ Yes, discussions are in progress, but we may continue as we are for awhile yet. Thank you all for your patience.
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Re: Towards a new RI

Postby 82_28 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:35 pm

Project Willow » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:11 am wrote:^ Yes, discussions are in progress, but we may continue as we are for awhile yet. Thank you all for your patience.


I was searching for another OP in which to place something I found. But found the following link first. I think I know who it is, but whatever, I liked her too.

http://byebyeri.blog.ca/

Let me say that I have met, many of us have met up IRL. Everyone is different. I don't know how the "banning" system works and I think Jeff's original guidelines speak for themselves.

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There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Towards a new RI

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:18 pm

Yeah, 82, I once came across that site. And some other quite similar. Funny that hadn't looked at it before. I think I'll have to take a walk for awhile before commenting. I hadn't noticed who's it was as I tend to ignore the RI haters out there, as the rare specie they are. Some deep breathing seems sufficient. Here goes.

I really don't ever recall having written anything mean-spirited to Canadian_watcher and liked her. I'm sure I might have criticized one or more of her comments, though. You'll notice I never took part in the poll or threads decrying her suspension and seeking her account's reinstatement. Not my board; I'm a guest. (And it's high time I respond to alan ford)

Indeed, I actually enjoyed her exchanges with barracuda and took them as teen angst - I mean the sexual tension! It always left me wondering what their next episode might bring! And of late I had been wondering whom to ask who might remember where her video was posted. I wanted to email her my condolences on her banning and express to her my chagrin and share with her my kind feelings for her, and to once again locate her catalog, cause I love her wacky art and wanted more.

I've rarely had time to engage continually in thread conversations, but more often only check out a few threads I've commented on. I might be logged-in all day but I might not be reading here although I might be spending hours just trying to organize my thoughts into words that hopefully can be understood. I doubt I've read 10% of the topics posted, But I might be catching-up on earlier thread someone bumped or linked to.

I can barely comprehend the continual internecine combat and rarely understand why grudges are held, or why when you ask someone what their problem is with you because they seem to you to be trolling your comments, they do not explain, leaving you nonplussed as what to do to improve your relationship. That needs to change.

Honestly, it takes me hours to write a few paragraphs and I have to read and reread everything because I often cannot remember what I've just finished reading. It's sorta like uncontrollable chronic daydreaming, wtf did I just read? Oh, yeah. I already read that, kinda-like. Every time I read. It is what it is and I am whom I am, ces't la vie.

Really, it's crazy talk to imagine I'm a cruel psychotic multiple personality sock puppet and I try not to be cruel, but I have been. I've allowed my emotions, the lowest, basest Chakra to rule. Who here hasn't? Elfi? Jeff? and of course a few more beautiful people, SRP,? and a select few of our women.

Even though it seems to have been read by few eyes, my last cruelty, unread by our mods, cost me my first suspension which I've never protested. When it was pointed out to me how mean what I wrote was, upon my rereading it I realized he with whom I was arguing (I thought to that point constructively; positively), and now permabanned, might indeed be dangerously ill rather than just angry towards women.

It was incredibly unfortunate the board at that moment crashed, preventing me from deleting all the negative parts of my comment, though I tried desperately to regain access for hours at home, at my office in Albany and was finally successful using my daughter's pc, also in Albany. My sin? I called a misogynist a "pathetic creature," after a bit of mocking his relationship with a woman who was more than ten years junior, when their relationship began when she was in her late teens. (He had called her a whore for falling out of love with him; and all who followed the thread couldn't help but feel the burn of his hatred) I used his own comments available elsewhere on the web where he had been candid more so than anything he had written here. My closing was indeed heartfelt and part of the original and not edited in later. A prayerful kiss-off after a spanking.

Indeed, I had imagined the good ol boys were following their member's commentary to the thread and hacked RI. Really. And I felt it my fault.

It really matters little to me why the board crashed but it was indeed the first time I had ever edited out content from any of my postings in my seven years here. I have always indicated my edits and have never altered any posting's content. All of my edits have been limited to correcting typos or bad tags, although I have rarely added new content and indicated that I have.

The board had been down for hours after posting it before I was able to delete it. I noted only one comment, perhaps two after it was posted and felt a bit of relief imagining more had not read it, saving me some embarrassment. It was deleted just before or after midnight from a computer at my daughter's. My sole purpose in traveling one half-hour to Albany was to prevent unnecessary pain to one already obviously in agony, and of course, to save myself the embarrassment of castigation from RI members, the latter being something alan ford did not allow.

What made it all the more painful is that the board crashed again immediately after my edit, leaving me unable to pm Jeff, our mods, to whom my message was directed, as well as to Mac, who I have not yet thanked for asking me to reconsider what I wrote. I would have also included the entirety of my partially deleted comment. If any in management desire to revisit the past, I will gladly send them a copy now.

The next morning when I attempted to log to pm those I mentioned and to note my edit, I learned I had been issued a ban. And that hurt. It was like the only world on the page! I didn't notice the 1 week bit til days later.

I hold no ill will towards our fuzzy wombat. I felt I needed more time. It really shocked me when I read what I wrote. And I'm sorry I did that.

Honestly, for one to think me some kind sock puppet is really sad. I mean I did get a 20k boost to my internet connection speed a couple of weeks ago all the way up to the highest speed yet, 50,667k, but right now it connected at 49.333k. Imagine - I thought I might be able to view a video! No noticeable difference at all for before.

I've said before, I've shared more about my RL than most. I'm a public figure of sorts. I even have my own mug shot! Really, no matter where you live, if you visit an environmental organization or private resource recovery facility that is tied in to the Zero Waste and anti-incineration movement it is likely someone will know of me. Which means I communicate a lot, or used to. S I don't have time for engaging in psychotic behaviors acting in the sock puppetry theatre.

And I work to see instituted one national firearms license effective everywhere.

Wow. Never thought I'd write a book, but there it is. I hope it is coherent.

edited once to add,

I found it ironic the above mentioned disgruntled former RI member chose not to reveal to her blog readers her RI screen name, making it difficult for any to better understand her contributions that led to her being banned. Which is in effect, sock puppetry of her RI persona. Beyond ironic. Sad.
Last edited by Iamwhomiam on Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Perelandra » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:55 pm

82, please could you edit that? 1.5 yr old drama that nobody wants to revisit.

Thank you for context, Iam, but I think you needn't defend your actions. The accusations back then were mostly inaccurate, anyway.

Toward a new RI!
“The past is never dead. It's not even past.” - William Faulkner
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