‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

[backtoiam]

ok mac

[stickdog99]

I have heard the (endlessly repeating) arguments for how Nothing is Wrong with This Picture, and they seem to come down to CERN Knows Best, and Trust in Authority.

That's it exactly. And I think, at least in some cases, that this is a reflexive response based on CERN's standing as a pillar of serious scientific investigation. It is based on the conviction that Serious Scientists are justified in their disdain the unwashed religious masses who dare question their Serious Scientific Pursuit of Scientific Knowledge and that Serious Scientists are somehow justified in "pranking" those who dare question the wisdom or the primacy of their Serious Pursuit of Scientific Knowledge.

The subtext is that CERN is simply not an entity to be questioned by the unwashed, uninitiated masses.

Personally, I reflexively demand answers to obvious questions from anyone in authority. I don't see why CERN (or the NIST or the NTSB or the Warren Commission or the Orlando PD or the Dallas PD for that matter) deserves a special exemption. YMMV

[stickdog99]

What middle do you suggest?

Are you saying you don't think that the police did their job or simply that it would be wonderful for them to have shared the details of whatever it was that satisfied them?

Just answer the CityBeat reporter's questions. That's it. Answer the most profoundly and blatantly obvious questions honestly and in good faith. Why is that always far, far too much to ask of those in public positions of authority?

[stickdog99]

Why are journalists even bothering to ask CERN? If I was concerned about real murder I wouldn't ask a spokesperson for a science lab I would ask the police for a statement.

Doesn't the article itself answer this question?

So taking the “joke” at face value and accepting CERN’s story, I still think it’s fair to ask...What the fuck? Why are scientists replicating a human sacrifice on the grounds of one of science’s most controversial and mysterious ongoing projects, in front of the Hindu god of destruction to boot? Who filmed this? Who are the participants? Who was the “victim?” What does this say about security at such a revolutionary scientific site?

Even if the most benign explanation of what happened at CERN is accepted, it still raises a slew of unsettling questions that deserve answering. Let’s see who, if anybody, chases them down.

[MacCruiskeen]

(Given lack of evidence that CERN ever committed ANY crime, or even intentionally lied about anything, comparing them to the CIA is possibly stretching the argument a bit)

(facepalm, yes, goddammit. because here's the post you purport to be responding to)

[OP ED]

I'm simply pointing out that having a large budget doesn't make you an organization designed for lying and killing which is what some of those groups listed are and were always intended to be.

That is, while being officially recognized authority on something doesn't imply that you're inherently trustworthy it likewise doesn't imply the opposite.

All of which is weird to be discussing considered that you seem to be saying that you're most upset that they haven't given lengthy enough answers for you while simultaneously maintaining that their answers are inherently akin to the sorts of lies propagated by American intelligence agencies.

No, this video is a work of fiction showing a contrived scene. CERN and its on-site accommodation fills up with scientists from across the world coming to CERN as part of their work. Work at CERN can take place 24 hours a day, 365 days a year with shift work and data analysis. Persons that are authorised to access the CERN site sometimes let their sense of humour go too far, and that is what has happened on this occasion. The video was filmed from an office building; strict safety systems are in place to prevent any unauthorised access to technical and experimental facilities. CERN does not condone this kind of spoof, which breaches CERN’s professional guidelines, and is currently carrying out an internal investigation.

Again, exactly what questions remain that aren't at least indirectly answered in their official statement?

Maybe going through some specifics could be helpful.

[guruilla]

That is, while being officially recognized authority on something doesn't imply that you're inherently trustworthy it likewise doesn't imply the opposite.

Really?

Who do you think funds, authorizes, legitimizes and sanctifies recognition of the "officially recognized authorities"? Are you implying that massively funded scientific research is somehow independent of government, intell., and military interests?

[MacCruiskeen]

I'm simply pointing out that having a large budget doesn't make you an organization designed for lying and killing which is what some of those groups listed are and were always intended to be.

Thanks for pointing out what I already knew, and which you certainly know I knew as well as you do.

That is, while being officially recognized authority on something doesn't imply that you're inherently trustworthy it likewise doesn't imply the opposite.

Of course it doesn't. No one here has even begun to suggest that it does. CERN is, obviously, neither inherently trustworthy nor inherently trustworthy. Which implies...what, exactly, about any particular official statement they might make? That it should be judged on its merits, that's what.

All of which is weird to be discussing considered that you seem to be saying that you're most upset that they haven't given lengthy enough answers for you while simultaneously maintaining that their answers are inherently akin to the sorts of lies propagated by American intelligence agencies.

facepalm

1. The length of their answers is not the issue.

2. I maintained no such thing.

No, this video is a work of fiction showing a contrived scene. CERN and its on-site accommodation fills up with scientists from across the world coming to CERN as part of their work. Work at CERN can take place 24 hours a day, 365 days a year with shift work and data analysis. Persons that are authorised to access the CERN site sometimes let their sense of humour go too far, and that is what has happened on this occasion. The video was filmed from an office building; strict safety systems are in place to prevent any unauthorised access to technical and experimental facilities. CERN does not condone this kind of spoof, which breaches CERN’s professional guidelines, and is currently carrying out an internal investigation.

Again, exactly what questions remain that aren't at least indirectly answered in their official statement?

Maybe going through some specifics could be helpful.

facepalm

two pages back, and addressed specifically to you

[OP ED]

Yes.

Taxpayers. Dependent on many things. Other scientists in other laboratories eventually replicating or not the same results. I'm not sure science gets "sanctified" except in the loosest and most extremely temporal sense, but again it would be the greater scientific community that indirectly does this. This is kind of how science works.

No, but that's not quite the same thing either.

[MacCruiskeen]

I only troll topics for which I feel my trolling can contribute an alternative.

Goodnight.

[MacCruiskeen]

Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the playground.

This was at Summersalt festival in Australia. They're an experimental interactive performance art group called Snuff Puppets. This piece is titled "Everybody" and has 4 parts: Everybody's Born - Everybody Cries - Everybody Shits - Everybody Dies.

Thanks for that. I had never even heard of this bunch. It is beautifully repulsive work, and clearly a labour of love.

And damn, Australian children must be really tough.





It's like a meatworld cyriak video.

[OP ED]

Yes. Those questions all have answers implied in the statement except for those asking specifically who was involved. You're simply choosing to ignore these implications.

1. They say exactly what happened in the statement. I.e. Employees with twisted sense of humor made a video in extremely bad taste.

2. They don't say EXACTLY who was involved but it is not really their place to do such a thing. There are many legitimate reasons for them to take this stance, not the least of which is pissing off India or endangering the physical health of the idiots who made the video. (Statistically about 6 people have been executed for witchcraft in India since the story broke)
The statement does indicate that they do know exactly who/what/when.

3. CERN can't reasonably be expected to comment on the mental state of the participants. That's not something physically possible for them to "know" even if such a thing could be known, which I doubt. Clearly they're upset about it.

4. See #2

5. See #1

6. They did involve the police at the outset. They clearly said so in their first statements. You posted these. The police haven't contradicted this statement.

[Wombaticus Rex]

ok mac

We'll call this a, like, well, like -- warning. Yeah, warning.

If you find yourself contributing a two word post, upward limit of nine, maybe pause prior to posting.

Especially whereupon you determine that post addresses nothing but another RI member...well, maybe just close that window and go read some other thread.

Cheerfully stated, I aim to enjoy the August-September transition and will be a much more active moderator.

[guruilla]

That is, while being officially recognized authority on something doesn't imply that you're inherently trustworthy it likewise doesn't imply the opposite.

Of course it doesn't. No one here has even begun to suggest that it does

To be fair to all concerned, I did suggest this because I firmly believe that officially recognized authority does imply inherent untrustworthiness, given that implications are not always borne out by facts.

Since when did paranoid become a dirty word around here anyway?

[Elihu]

I consider them to be what they purportedly are, that is nothing more than a consortium of experimental physicists.

nothing more

that is impossible