Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:16 pm

Belligerent Savant » Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:07 am wrote:
@DrJuliePonesse
·
Nov 2

We are facing a pandemic not just of a virus but a pandemic of compliance and complacency, in a culture of silence, censorship, and institutionalized bullying.

Watch my full speech from The Faith and Democracy Series:



https://twitter.com/DrJuliePonesse/stat ... 28728?s=20


TRANSCRIPT:

Think back to a couple of years ago—fall 2019, let’s say. What were you doing then? What was your life like? What did you care about? What did you most fear? What DID YOU IMAGINE ABOUT the FUTURE?

That’s the person I would like to talk to for the next 15 minutes, + I’ll begin with my own story: At the end I’ll have a FAVOUR to ask plus a little SECRET to share.

In the fall of 2019, I was a professor of ethics and ancient philosophy; I taught students critical thinking + the importance of self-reflection, how to ask good questions and evaluate evidence, how to learn from the past and why democracy requires civic virtue.

Fast forward to September 16, 2021 when I received a “termination with cause” letter after I questioned, and refused to comply, with my employer’s vaccine mandate. I was dismissed for doing exactly what I had been hired to do. I was a professor of ethics questioning what I take to be an unethical demand. You don’t have to look very hard to see the irony.

Canada is governed by laws which are based on ethics. You could say that ethics are the bedrock beneath our democracy.

“The right to determine what shall or shall not be done with one’s own body, and to be free from non-consensual medical treatment, is a right deeply rooted in our common law.” These aren’t my words; they are the words of Justice Sydney Robins of the Ontario Court of Appeal.

With very few exceptions, each person’s body is considered inviolate in Canadian law, and this is the underlying ethos of the Nuremberg Code, a promise to humanity that we would never again endorse uninformed, non-voluntary medical decision-making, even for the patient’s own good, even for the sake of the public good.

By definition, vaccine mandates are coercive immunization strategies: in the absence of coercion — the threat of a loss of employment, for example — people would voluntarily agree to do what the mandate is trying to achieve!

Employers are holding our careers hostage, and removing our participation in the economy and in public life. Their justification is that “we are in a pandemic,” and we must therefore relinquish autonomy over our bodies for the sake of the public good.

So, let’s talk about autonomy and the public good for a minute.

In emergencies, the Parliament and provincial legislatures have a limited power to pass laws that violate certain Charter rights for the sake of the public good. But, to justify those violations, vaccine mandates would need to meet a very high threshold: COVID-19 would, for example, need to be a highly virulent pathogen for which there is no adequate treatment, and the vaccines would need to be demonstrably effective and safe.

The current state of affairs in Canada meets neither of these criteria.

Consider these facts:

1) COVID-19 has an infection facility rate not even 1% that of smallpox (and it poses even less risk to children)

2) a number of safe, highly effective pharmaceuticals exist to treat it (including monoclonal antibodies, Ivermectin, fluvoxamine, Vitamin D and Zinc), AND

3) The vaccines have reported more adverse events (including innumerable deaths) than every other vaccine on the market over the last 30 years.

In light of these facts, I have so many questions:

Why are the vaccinated granted vaccine passports and access to public spaces, when the Director of the CDC has stated that the COVID-19 vaccines cannot prevent transmission?

Why is vaccination the ONLY mitigation strategy when emerging evidence (including a recent Harvard study) shows no discernible relationship between the vaccination rate and new cases?

Why does our government continue to withhold Ivermectin as a recommended treatment when the U-S National Institutes of Health supports it, and when the state of Uttar Pradesh in India distributed it to its 230 million people, reducing its COVID death rate to almost zero? How has India surpassed Canada in Health Care?

Why are we about to vaccinate 5 year olds when COVID poses to them less risk than the potential vaccine reactions AND while there is NO effective monitoring system for the vaccines?

Why are we focused on the narrow benefits of vaccine-induced immunity when real-world studies show natural immunity is more protective, more potent, and more enduring?

Why do we shame the “vaccine hesitant” and not the “vaccine adamant”?

“Why,” as a nurse recently asked, “do the protected need to be protected from the unprotected by forcing the unprotected to use the protection that did not protect the protected in the first place?”

By every measure and from every angle, this is a ‘house of cards’ about to crumble

But the question that interests me is why hasn’t it crumbled already? Why are these questions not the headlines of every major newspaper in Canada every day?

Have the right people simply not seen the right data? Is it just a clerical error…on a global scale?

What has happened to our leadership? Our Prime Minister leads the battle cry: “Don’t think you’re getting on a plane,” he threatened. Campaign promises are now segregationist public policy. Our government encourages us daily to be divisive and hateful.

How did things change so drastically? How did we Canadians change so drastically?

It’s my observation that we are facing a pandemic not just of a virus but a pandemic of compliance and complacency, in a culture of silence, censorship, and institutionalized bullying.

Mainstream Media likes to say that we are fighting a “war of information” — that misinformation, and even questioning and doubt, have plagued this pandemic.

But it is not only information that is being weaponized, in this war; it is a person’s right to think for herself.

I have heard it said “well I don’t know that much about viruses” so I shouldn’t really have an opinion. but…

The issue is not whether you know more about virology than our public health officials; the issue is why we aren’t all calling them out for not being willing to engage with the evidence and debate someone who has a different opinion.

We should be calling not for an outcome but for a process to be reestablished.

Without that process we have no science, we have no democracy.

Without that process, we are in a kind of moral war.

But, the wars of the past have had clear and distinct boundaries: the east and the west, patriots and government.

The war we find ourselves in today is one of infiltration instead of invasion, intimidation instead of free choice, of psychological forces so insidious we come to believe the ideas are our own and that we are doing our part by giving up our rights.

As a wise colleague recently said “This is a war about the role of government. It is about our freedom to think and ask questions, and about whether individual autonomy can be downgraded to a conditional privilege or whether it remains a right. It is a war about whether you are to remain a citizen or become a subject. It is about who owns you… you or the state.”

It is about where we draw the line.

This isn’t about liberals and conservatives, pro-and anti-vaxxers, experts and lay people. Everyone should care about truth, everyone should care about the scientific and democratic processes, everyone should care about each another.

There is, I would argue, little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our freedom to debate, to criticize, to demand evidence for what our government asks of us does not survive with it.

As someone born in the 70s, I never thought THIS would be a war I would have to fight, that the right to bodily autonomy, to the free and transparent exchange of information would be at risk.

Think for a minute about the the most unimaginable harms of the last century — the ‘final solution,’ South African apartheid, the Rwandan and Cambodian genocides. Aren’t we supposed to remember atrocities of the past so we don’t repeat them? Well, memories are short, family chains are broken, new worries eclipse the old ones, and the lessons of the past fade into ancient history only to be forgotten.

Today, the vaccinated seem to enjoy all the rights + privileges of a civilized society: freedom of movement, access to education, and the approval of governments, law makers, journalists, friends and family. Vaccination is the ticket to a CONDITIONAL return of our right to participate in Canadian society.

But as John F Kennedy said: “The rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.”

CONCLUSION:

I have no doubt that COVID-19 is the greatest threat to humanity we have ever faced; not because of a virus; that is just one chapter of a much longer, more complex story; but because of our response to it.

And that response is, I believe, earning its place in every medical ethics textbook that will be published in the next century.

What can we do?

As Canadian chemist and author Orlando Battista said, “An error doesn’t become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.”

In our world, politeness, ‘getting by,’ ‘flying under the radar’ seem to be the goals. Gone are the 60s revolutionaries, gone are the patriots of early America. We are the victims — and the soldiers — of a pandemic of compliance.

But compliance is not a virtue; it isn’t neutral, and it certainly isn’t harmless.

When Hannah Arendt covered the trial of Adolf Eichmann for the New Yorker in 1961, she expected to find a complex, arrogant, diabolical, perhaps psychotic man. What she found was quite the opposite. She was struck by his “very ordinariness.” He was “terribly and terrifyingly normal,” she wrote, a man who was “just following orders,” as he said over and over again. What she found was what she called the “banality of evil,” the thoughtless tendency of ordinary people to obey orders in order to conform without thinking for themselves.

The dismissive, well-rehearsed messaging of our public health officials has created a highly efficient machine that does not publish its evidence or engage in debate, but only issues orders that we obligingly follow. With the help of the media, its mistakes are hidden, its policies unquestioned, its dissenters silenced.

How do we break this silence? How do we regain our sanity and rebuild our democracy? Perhaps it’s time to get a little bit noisy. Studies have proven that once an idea is adopted by just 10% of the population, this is the tipping point when ideas, opinions, & beliefs will be rapidly adopted by the rest. A vocal, **NOISY** 10% is all it takes.

Democracy, “rule of the people,” doesn’t just allow for freedom of expression and inquiry; it requires it.

And the little SECRET I promised you at the beginning? Here it is: you AREN’T a bad person for demanding evidence, you AREN’T a bad person for trusting your instincts, and you AREN’T a bad person for wanting to think for yourself. In fact, the opposite is true.

If you are worried about a loss of justice, if you are worried about what kinds of lives will be possible for our children, if you want your country back — the country that was once the envy of the world — then now is the time to act. There is no reason to wait, there is no luxury or excuse to wait. We need you now.

Now is the time to call our politicians and write to our newspapers. Now is the time to protest, now is the time to challenge and even disobey our government.

As Margaret Mead said: “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”

In other words, you don’t need a TRIBE of heroes, a MASS of heroes, a COUNTRY of heroes. You only need 1. You can do your part and you CAN make a difference. The Southwest Airlines pilots, the Canadian Mounties, the University Health Network nurses are all making a difference.

And the FAVOUR I have to ask you? We need heroes now more than ever. Our democracy is asking for volunteers … Will you be a hero, for our country, for our children? Will you be part of the noisy 10%?


https://brownstone.org/articles/do-not- ... le-speech/
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Elvis » Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:23 pm

Now this is interesting

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:06 am wrote:
And a very pointed indictment of the ubiquitous media messaging that vaccination holdouts are responsible for the delta spread:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-00808-7


to wit:
CORRESPONDENCE
Published: 30 September 2021

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

S. V. Subramanian & Akhil Kumar

European Journal of Epidemiology (2021)Cite this article

1.34m Accesses
20784 Altmetric
Metrics
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby LolaB » Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:04 pm

I've been enjoying Linh Dinh's writing and world traveling photography. He wrote yesterday from Namibia:

A much more damning accusation, and I'm making it here, is that Covid has been deployed by the American government as a political, psychological, economic and, most crucially, biological weapon (much more through "vaccines" than virus) against as much of humanity as possible. Of course, Americans are also being culled.


http://linhdinhphotos.blogspot.com/

Ouch!
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Harvey » Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:21 pm

Elvis » Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:23 pm wrote:Now this is interesting

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:06 am wrote:
And a very pointed indictment of the ubiquitous media messaging that vaccination holdouts are responsible for the delta spread:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-00808-7


to wit:
CORRESPONDENCE
Published: 30 September 2021

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

S. V. Subramanian & Akhil Kumar

European Journal of Epidemiology (2021)Cite this article

1.34m Accesses
20784 Altmetric
Metrics


Ahem...


Harvey » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:11 am wrote:Far Right hate group, Harvard, release Covid-19 study (<--- probably true though):

Increases in COVID‑19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/1 ... 0808-7.pdf

…..

Findings

At the country-level, there appears to be no discernable relationship between percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases in the last 7 days (Fig. 1).

In fact, the trend line suggests a marginally positive association such that countries with higher percentage of population fully vaccinated have higher COVID-19 cases per 1 million people.

Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. The lack of a meaningful association between percentage population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases is further exemplified, for instance, by comparison of Iceland and Portugal. Both countries have over 75% of their population fully vaccinated and have more COVID-19 cases per 1 million people than countries such as Vietnam and South Africa that have around 10% of their population fully vaccinated.

Across the US counties too, the median new COVID-19 cases per 100,000 people in the last 7 days is largely similar across the categories of percent population fully vaccinated (Fig. 2). Notably there is also substantial county variation in new COVID-19 cases within categories of percentage population fully vaccinated.

There also appears to be no significant signalling of COVID-19 cases decreasing with higher percentages of population fully vaccinated (Fig. 3). Of the top 5 counties that have the highest percentage of population fully vaccinated (99.9–84.3%), the US Cent-ers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies 4 of them as “High” Transmission counties.

Chattahoochee (Georgia), McKinley (New Mexico), and Arecibo (Puerto Rico) counties have above 90% of their population fully vaccinated with all three being classified as “High” transmission.

Conversely, of the 57 counties that have been classified as “low” transmission counties by the CDC, 26.3% (15) have percentage of population fully vaccinated below 20%.

…... etc



But it's alright, further down, Joe says the study proves the opposite of what it seems to, and everything is peachy.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:31 am

Harvey » 07 Nov 2021 11:21 wrote:
Elvis » Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:23 pm wrote:Now this is interesting

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:06 am wrote:
And a very pointed indictment of the ubiquitous media messaging that vaccination holdouts are responsible for the delta spread:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-00808-7


to wit:
CORRESPONDENCE
Published: 30 September 2021

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

S. V. Subramanian & Akhil Kumar

European Journal of Epidemiology (2021)Cite this article

1.34m Accesses
20784 Altmetric
Metrics


Ahem...


Harvey » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:11 am wrote:Far Right hate group, Harvard, release Covid-19 study (<--- probably true though):

Increases in COVID‑19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/1 ... 0808-7.pdf

…..

Findings

At the country-level, there appears to be no discernable relationship between percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases in the last 7 days (Fig. 1).

In fact, the trend line suggests a marginally positive association such that countries with higher percentage of population fully vaccinated have higher COVID-19 cases per 1 million people.

Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. The lack of a meaningful association between percentage population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases is further exemplified, for instance, by comparison of Iceland and Portugal. Both countries have over 75% of their population fully vaccinated and have more COVID-19 cases per 1 million people than countries such as Vietnam and South Africa that have around 10% of their population fully vaccinated.

Across the US counties too, the median new COVID-19 cases per 100,000 people in the last 7 days is largely similar across the categories of percent population fully vaccinated (Fig. 2). Notably there is also substantial county variation in new COVID-19 cases within categories of percentage population fully vaccinated.

There also appears to be no significant signalling of COVID-19 cases decreasing with higher percentages of population fully vaccinated (Fig. 3). Of the top 5 counties that have the highest percentage of population fully vaccinated (99.9–84.3%), the US Cent-ers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies 4 of them as “High” Transmission counties.

Chattahoochee (Georgia), McKinley (New Mexico), and Arecibo (Puerto Rico) counties have above 90% of their population fully vaccinated with all three being classified as “High” transmission.

Conversely, of the 57 counties that have been classified as “low” transmission counties by the CDC, 26.3% (15) have percentage of population fully vaccinated below 20%.

…... etc



But it's alright, further down, Joe says the study proves the opposite of what it seems to, and everything is peachy.


In all of those graphs there is an obvious trend to lower cases as vaccination rates get over 70% and consistently the epidemiologists studying Delta covid say because its more virulent higher numbers of vaccinations are required to achieve lower transmission rates. They talk about 90%+ compared to 70% with earlier strains.

None of those graphs have results above 70% vaccination rates but do suggest that as they rates approach and go just beyond 70% numbers of recent infections are dropping.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:31 am

Joe Hillshoist » Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:31 am wrote:None of those graphs have results above 70% vaccination rates but do suggest that as they rates approach and go just beyond 70% numbers of recent infections are dropping.
.

That's not what real world data is showing.

@ianmSC
·
15h
6 weeks into a mask mandate & with ~85% of the population vaccinated, the Cayman Islands has the highest case rate in the world & is reporting the equivalent of ~760,000 cases per day in the US.

Image

https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/14574 ... 21061?s=20

@ianmSC
·
Nearly 19 months into their mask mandate and with 85% of their entire population fully vaccinated, Singapore is reporting the equivalent of ~800 deaths per day in the US

Image

https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/14574 ... 23529?s=20

@ianmSC
·
Hospitalizations in Colorado are up 345% in the past four months despite ~95% of everyone over 65 being at least partially vaccinated.

Bizarrely, there hasn’t been nearly as much media coverage of this as there was when states in the South saw increases recently.

Image

https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/14574 ... 77667?s=20

@ianmSC
·
Nov 5
Germany just reported its highest single day case total of the pandemic with mask mandates, vaccine passports and over 83% of everyone over 18 at least partially vaccinated

Image

https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/14567 ... 22785?s=20

@ianmSC
·
Nov 5
Vermont, the most vaccinated US state, with 92% of everyone over 18 at least partially vaccinated, reported its highest single day case total of the pandemic yesterday, the equivalent of 277,000 cases in the entire US

Image

https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/14566 ... 96997?s=20

@ianmSC
·
Nov 4
Iceland just reported its 3rd highest single day case total, cases are up ~250% in the past 1.5 months & are approaching all time highs — all with 90%+ of adults at least partially vaccinated for 4+ months
Image

https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/14563 ... 29088?s=20

@ianmSC
·
Nov 3
Cases in New Zealand are rising rapidly & ~80% higher than they’ve ever been despite lockdowns, mask mandates & 88% of the eligible population at least partially vaccinated

I am still waiting for my apology from New Zealand COVID twitter who assured me their lockdown was working

Image

https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/14559 ... 97152?s=20
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:15 am

.

A couple other 'breadcrumbs':

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1456 ... 93575.html

Pr. Retsef Levi at the Federal Vaccine Mandates Panel (2.11.2021):

*Many experts think that the narrative is extreme and wrong, but very few of them are willing to speak out
*Any attempt to deviate from the narrative is faced with a wall of hostility, rejection, and elimination


*Back in April 2021, multiple scientific articles based on the Israeli data, asserted that the Pfizer vaccines provide over 90% relative protection against COVID (without showing the data)
These studies were wrong.
*The story is now repeating itself with the "Booster"(3rd dose)
*These studies follow patients for an extremely short period of time.
*They do not account for how many tests were conducted on the different populations.

*Prof. Levi and his colleagues pointed out that there was an increase of 25% in cardiac arrest calls under 40 (MDA calls)
*They never got a response from authoroties, that went public and called this research "fake"
*Journals are rejecting this article, based on the argument that "It isn't a priority"
*These vaccines are not naive, they have serious side effects. We need to use them with caution.




And:

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... t_did.html


When will the CDC correct its COVID death counts, as Italy just did?

November 6, 2021

the Italian Higher Institute of Health decided it had miscounted COVID deaths. Instead of looking at people who died with COVID, as it once did, it looked only at people who died from COVID — leading to a 97% decrease in Italy's COVID death count. So far, the CDC shows no signs of following suit.

According to The Summit:

The Italian Higher Institute of Health has drastically reduced the country's official COVID death toll number by over 97 per cent after changing the definition of a fatality to someone who died from COVID rather than with COVID.

Italian newspaper Il Tempo reports that the Institute has revised downward the number of people who have died from COVID rather than with COVID from 130,000 to under 4,000.

"Yes, you read that right. Turns out 97.1% of deaths hitherto attributed to Covid were not due directly to Covid," writes Toby Young.

Of the of the 130,468 deaths registered as official COVID deaths since the start of the pandemic, only 3,783 are directly attributable to the virus alone.

"All the other Italians who lost their lives had from between one and five pre-existing diseases. Of those aged over 67 who died, 7% had more than three co-morbidities, and 18% at least two," writes Young.

"According to the Institute, 65.8% of Italians who died after being infected with Covid were ill with arterial hypertension (high blood pressure), 23.5% had dementia, 29.3% had diabetes, and 24.8% atrial fibrillation. Add to that, 17.4% had lung problems, 16.3% had had cancer in the last five years and 15.7% suffered from previous heart failures."


There's more interesting material here: https://summit.news/2021/11/04/italian- ... ll-number/, for the article discusses the ethics of overcounting to induce panic.

Reading between the lines, the problem in Italy was that the socialized medicine system was unable to cope with an influx of patients during a bad flu season. (And it was a bad flu season.)

The actual data match closely what those who are not panicking have observed in America. As with every flu season, there are unlucky young (and youngish) people who die from the flu. Overall, though, the ones who die are either very elderly or have comorbidities of the type described in the quoted material above.

In America, however, counting COVID deaths is more of an art than it is a science (and that's not even getting into the way the government incentivized hospitals to count COVID deaths). You can see here the CDC's instructions.

A February 2021 article at the American Association of Medical College's website assures readers that no one is really overcounting in America: "There's no evidence of orchestrated inflation, but parsing the role that the disease plays in some deaths is not always easy for doctors — nor is the process clear to the public."

The article then discusses the fact that deaths from COVID are confusing because COVID creates a lot of "clinical complications." However — and this is where the article starts tying in with what we know to be true:

[T]he disease's brutal impact on people with other medical conditions — such as diabetes, hypertension, and heart ailments — can make COVID-19 one of several contributors to a death, says Sally Aiken, MD, chief medical examiner of Spokane County, Washington. Aiken has seen cases where elderly people who were in advanced decline due to Alzheimer's disease and atrial fibrillation contracted COVID-19 and soon died.


In other words, COVID hastens death but doesn't necessarily cause it. Moreover (and, again, this matters), when it comes to death certificates:

Part I and II of a death certificate ask what caused a death and what other factors contributed to it. If COVID-19 appears among the causes and contributors, CDC guidance counts that as a COVID-19-related death.

Part I asks for the "immediate cause" of death, followed by any "conditions that led to the immediate cause," the CDC explains in guidelines for certifying COVID-19 fatalities. For example: In some COVID-19 cases, the immediate cause is an affliction that arose from the disease, such as pneumonia, while COVID-19 gets listed under that as an underlying condition that led to death. In other words, COVID-19 caused the pneumonia.


Alaska's policy is a good yardstick for what's going on:

The Alaska Department of Health and Social Services explains on its website why the disease is cited if it played any role at all:

"Whether COVID-19 shortened a life by 15 years or 15 minutes; whether COVID-19 is an underlying or contributing condition, the virus was in circulation, infected an Alaskan, and hastened their death."


Parse your way through all of this, and it becomes clear that COVID, because it is a new and highly adaptable coronavirus, hastened the deaths of those with one foot in the grave and one foot on a banana peel by increasing their vulnerability to the things that were already killing them. This is sad, for every minute, day, or week spent with a loved one matters. Additionally, the extreme lockdowns consigned so many to heartbreakingly lonely deaths.

However, if you do as the Italian government did and strip away age and comorbidities from the death count, COVID is just another flu for most people. The economy does not need to stop; people do not need to be locked up; the disease is treatable; and mass vaccination mandates are unnecessary, ineffective, and totalitarian.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:17 am

Even accepting the ad copy for these vaccines at face value -- and that documentation that everyone who plays an expert on TV gets emailed is definitely ad copy -- they're still not going to hold down a winter spike. They don't have the specs for that task, even assuming all these jury-rigged studies are an accurate prediction of real world results. They're especially not going to prevent that with intense economic pressure to get everyone back to work and keep schools open every day like nothing is wrong.

American institutions can no longer bear the costs of treating nCoV like an existential threat, that's been clear for months now. The narrative shift has already been underway for months now, too: "endemic Covid," reframing the problem as ... well, as exactly what it's been since January 2020. A novel respiratory virus transmitting and reproducing more or less at will, to the extent these microbes are powered by an egregore intelligence, and doing so across every continent on Earth.

As has been noted many times in the nearly 300 pages of correspondence, rants and notes here, human beings are very resistant to the reality of phenomena which do not yield like clay to human agency. And this is surely one.

It is telling how blurred the lines are, across public health comms efforts from credentialed experts and celebrity spokesmodels alike, between mitigating secord order effects and eliminating the primary cause. This has engendered a certain schizophrenia, where even quite intelligent people argue and reason from catchphrases and slogans they don't actually believe, and have to surrender altogether at the slightest pressure, forever retreating back to the anemic assertions that we have to do something, and in order to do that something, we all have to do our part.

Meanwhile, the behavior of our ruling class and their expert managers has made it very clear throughout 2021 that this was never about safety, only about liability. It hardly matters how well the vaccines work, just like it hardly matters how well TSA worked. All that matters is that something has been done.

That something is hardly scientific. A rush job non-experiment with zero controls and very little data collection, either. A virus with a low death rate will continue to evolve through the population for decades to come, with minor variations on that same low death rate, and it will be declared defeated by PR fiat. To those who doubt, the great big red laser pointer in the sky will merely circle the same low death rate this has always had, now held up as proof that all this was worth it, that all this worked. And when outbreaks get uncomfortably virulent from time to time, well, that's clearly the fault of the stubborn MAGA holdouts who refused to get vaccinated.

Over time, more and more studies will unravel all of this, and as ever, it will hardly matter. Eventually, everyone whose reputation and fortune was staked on this narrative will be dead, and then mass media will start to reconsider this whole wretched era as the panicked mistake it was. There will be somber documentaries followed by a prestige TV miniseries, and then our blasphemies and heresies will suddenly be gospel, something everyone always knew all along.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:20 am

In Australia we have now progressed from lockdowns to lockouts. :thumbsup

Lockout restrictions for Greater Darwin
Under a lockout, fully vaccinated residents are able to live normally within the lockout area. Everyone must wear a mask outside their place of residence.
Unvaccinated residents, including those people who have received only their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, must stay at home during a lockout period and are only permitted to leave for the following five reasons:
Medical treatment, including COVID testing or vaccination.
For essential goods and services, like groceries and medications.
Essential work.
For one hour of outdoor exercise a day within 5 km from your home with one other person or people from your house.
To provide care and support to a family member or person who cannot support themselves.
To reduce the risk of COVID-19 spreading in our communities, it is important for everyone to follow all health directions and vaccinations for all those eligible.
Book your COVID-19 vaccine
Check in using The Territory Check In App every time, everywhere
If you have symptoms, stay away from others and get tested for COVID-19
Wash your hands with soap and water and use hand sanitiser regularly
Do not go to work if you feel sick
Maintain a physical distance of 1.5 metres where possible.

- https://coronavirus.nt.gov.au/updates/i ... -new-cases
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:11 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:17 am wrote:
As has been noted many times in the nearly 300 pages of correspondence, rants and notes here, human beings are very resistant to the reality of phenomena which do not yield like clay to human agency. And this is surely one.


Yes. Frustrating to observe the continued resistance/denial of this.

Wombaticus Rex » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:17 am wrote:Over time, more and more studies will unravel all of this, and as ever, it will hardly matter. Eventually, everyone whose reputation and fortune was staked on this narrative will be dead, and then mass media will start to reconsider this whole wretched era as the panicked mistake it was. There will be somber documentaries followed by a prestige TV miniseries, and then our blasphemies and heresies will suddenly be gospel, something everyone always knew all along.


The hope is that we reach this stage far sooner than you prognosticate here (within the next ~year), however fanciful such hopes turn out to be.


Otherwise will need to move to a State that at least acknowledges the egregious overreach, regardless of how flawed (the anti-mandate States) may otherwise be.

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:15 pm

Joe Hillshoist » 08 Nov 2021 08:31 wrote:
Harvey » 07 Nov 2021 11:21 wrote:
Elvis » Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:23 pm wrote:Now this is interesting

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:06 am wrote:
And a very pointed indictment of the ubiquitous media messaging that vaccination holdouts are responsible for the delta spread:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-00808-7


to wit:
CORRESPONDENCE
Published: 30 September 2021

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

S. V. Subramanian & Akhil Kumar

European Journal of Epidemiology (2021)Cite this article

1.34m Accesses
20784 Altmetric
Metrics


Ahem...


Harvey » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:11 am wrote:Far Right hate group, Harvard, release Covid-19 study (<--- probably true though):

Increases in COVID‑19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/1 ... 0808-7.pdf

…..

Findings

At the country-level, there appears to be no discernable relationship between percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases in the last 7 days (Fig. 1).

In fact, the trend line suggests a marginally positive association such that countries with higher percentage of population fully vaccinated have higher COVID-19 cases per 1 million people.

Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. The lack of a meaningful association between percentage population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases is further exemplified, for instance, by comparison of Iceland and Portugal. Both countries have over 75% of their population fully vaccinated and have more COVID-19 cases per 1 million people than countries such as Vietnam and South Africa that have around 10% of their population fully vaccinated.

Across the US counties too, the median new COVID-19 cases per 100,000 people in the last 7 days is largely similar across the categories of percent population fully vaccinated (Fig. 2). Notably there is also substantial county variation in new COVID-19 cases within categories of percentage population fully vaccinated.

There also appears to be no significant signalling of COVID-19 cases decreasing with higher percentages of population fully vaccinated (Fig. 3). Of the top 5 counties that have the highest percentage of population fully vaccinated (99.9–84.3%), the US Cent-ers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies 4 of them as “High” Transmission counties.

Chattahoochee (Georgia), McKinley (New Mexico), and Arecibo (Puerto Rico) counties have above 90% of their population fully vaccinated with all three being classified as “High” transmission.

Conversely, of the 57 counties that have been classified as “low” transmission counties by the CDC, 26.3% (15) have percentage of population fully vaccinated below 20%.

…... etc



But it's alright, further down, Joe says the study proves the opposite of what it seems to, and everything is peachy.


In all of those graphs there is an obvious trend to lower cases as vaccination rates get over 70% and consistently the epidemiologists studying Delta covid say because its more virulent higher numbers of vaccinations are required to achieve lower transmission rates. They talk about 90%+ compared to 70% with earlier strains.

None of those graphs have results above 70% vaccination rates but do suggest that as they rates approach and go just beyond 70% numbers of recent infections are dropping.


LOL.

Note that religious devotion to the idea that vaccinations must be working even as the raw data suggest the exact opposite.

It just has to be that not enough people have been vaccinated! That's the only possible explanation for their being no correlation between vaccination rate and COVID-19 case rate to date once you have decided that COVID-19 vaccination is a moral imperative.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:22 pm

Wombaticus Rex » 08 Nov 2021 15:17 wrote:Even accepting the ad copy for these vaccines at face value -- and that documentation that everyone who plays an expert on TV gets emailed is definitely ad copy -- they're still not going to hold down a winter spike. They don't have the specs for that task, even assuming all these jury-rigged studies are an accurate prediction of real world results. They're especially not going to prevent that with intense economic pressure to get everyone back to work and keep schools open every day like nothing is wrong.

American institutions can no longer bear the costs of treating nCoV like an existential threat, that's been clear for months now. The narrative shift has already been underway for months now, too: "endemic Covid," reframing the problem as ... well, as exactly what it's been since January 2020. A novel respiratory virus transmitting and reproducing more or less at will, to the extent these microbes are powered by an egregore intelligence, and doing so across every continent on Earth.

As has been noted many times in the nearly 300 pages of correspondence, rants and notes here, human beings are very resistant to the reality of phenomena which do not yield like clay to human agency. And this is surely one.

It is telling how blurred the lines are, across public health comms efforts from credentialed experts and celebrity spokesmodels alike, between mitigating secord order effects and eliminating the primary cause. This has engendered a certain schizophrenia, where even quite intelligent people argue and reason from catchphrases and slogans they don't actually believe, and have to surrender altogether at the slightest pressure, forever retreating back to the anemic assertions that we have to do something, and in order to do that something, we all have to do our part.

Meanwhile, the behavior of our ruling class and their expert managers has made it very clear throughout 2021 that this was never about safety, only about liability. It hardly matters how well the vaccines work, just like it hardly matters how well TSA worked. All that matters is that something has been done.

That something is hardly scientific. A rush job non-experiment with zero controls and very little data collection, either. A virus with a low death rate will continue to evolve through the population for decades to come, with minor variations on that same low death rate, and it will be declared defeated by PR fiat. To those who doubt, the great big red laser pointer in the sky will merely circle the same low death rate this has always had, now held up as proof that all this was worth it, that all this worked. And when outbreaks get uncomfortably virulent from time to time, well, that's clearly the fault of the stubborn MAGA holdouts who refused to get vaccinated.

Over time, more and more studies will unravel all of this, and as ever, it will hardly matter. Eventually, everyone whose reputation and fortune was staked on this narrative will be dead, and then mass media will start to reconsider this whole wretched era as the panicked mistake it was. There will be somber documentaries followed by a prestige TV miniseries, and then our blasphemies and heresies will suddenly be gospel, something everyone always knew all along.


Pretty much. And that's people (in the USA at least) have by and large reacted to the overblown but very real threat of COVID-19 by praying to their false Gods of political choice.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:02 pm

stickdog99 » 09 Nov 2021 09:15 wrote:
Joe Hillshoist » 08 Nov 2021 08:31 wrote:
Harvey » 07 Nov 2021 11:21 wrote:
Elvis » Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:23 pm wrote:Now this is interesting

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:06 am wrote:
And a very pointed indictment of the ubiquitous media messaging that vaccination holdouts are responsible for the delta spread:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-00808-7


to wit:
CORRESPONDENCE
Published: 30 September 2021

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

S. V. Subramanian & Akhil Kumar

European Journal of Epidemiology (2021)Cite this article

1.34m Accesses
20784 Altmetric
Metrics


Ahem...


Harvey » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:11 am wrote:Far Right hate group, Harvard, release Covid-19 study (<--- probably true though):

Increases in COVID‑19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/1 ... 0808-7.pdf

…..

Findings

At the country-level, there appears to be no discernable relationship between percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases in the last 7 days (Fig. 1).

In fact, the trend line suggests a marginally positive association such that countries with higher percentage of population fully vaccinated have higher COVID-19 cases per 1 million people.

Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. The lack of a meaningful association between percentage population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases is further exemplified, for instance, by comparison of Iceland and Portugal. Both countries have over 75% of their population fully vaccinated and have more COVID-19 cases per 1 million people than countries such as Vietnam and South Africa that have around 10% of their population fully vaccinated.

Across the US counties too, the median new COVID-19 cases per 100,000 people in the last 7 days is largely similar across the categories of percent population fully vaccinated (Fig. 2). Notably there is also substantial county variation in new COVID-19 cases within categories of percentage population fully vaccinated.

There also appears to be no significant signalling of COVID-19 cases decreasing with higher percentages of population fully vaccinated (Fig. 3). Of the top 5 counties that have the highest percentage of population fully vaccinated (99.9–84.3%), the US Cent-ers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies 4 of them as “High” Transmission counties.

Chattahoochee (Georgia), McKinley (New Mexico), and Arecibo (Puerto Rico) counties have above 90% of their population fully vaccinated with all three being classified as “High” transmission.

Conversely, of the 57 counties that have been classified as “low” transmission counties by the CDC, 26.3% (15) have percentage of population fully vaccinated below 20%.

…... etc



But it's alright, further down, Joe says the study proves the opposite of what it seems to, and everything is peachy.


In all of those graphs there is an obvious trend to lower cases as vaccination rates get over 70% and consistently the epidemiologists studying Delta covid say because its more virulent higher numbers of vaccinations are required to achieve lower transmission rates. They talk about 90%+ compared to 70% with earlier strains.

None of those graphs have results above 70% vaccination rates but do suggest that as they rates approach and go just beyond 70% numbers of recent infections are dropping.


LOL.

Note that religious devotion to the idea that vaccinations must be working even as the raw data suggest the exact opposite.

It just has to be that not enough people have been vaccinated! That's the only possible explanation for their being no correlation between vaccination rate and COVID-19 case rate to date once you have decided that COVID-19 vaccination is a moral imperative.


Singapore has 25 thousand active cases from a population of 5-6 million people and a death rate at least 25 times lower than the US per million people. At no time have more than 20 people died of or with or whatever its is about covid on any one day in Singapore since this outbreak started.

And when did someone say these vaccines would stop transmission? I don't recall ever hearing that. They seem to lower the rate of transmission but they don't stop it.

What they do (well the one I've had does, it isn't approved in the US afaik) is prevent systemic infection, which is how this virus can fuck you up even if it doesn't kill you.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:21 pm

.

And when did someone say these vaccines would stop transmission? I don't recall ever hearing that. They seem to lower the rate of transmission but they don't stop it.


I believe Fauci and/or the CDC claimed exactly this during the early months, or otherwise strongly implied it. Here's one early claim:

Do Covid-19 vaccines stop coronavirus transmission? Here's what research says. (Thursday, March 4)

Recent studies suggest the coronavirus vaccines developed by Pfizer and Moderna not only prevent people who are exposed to the virus from contracting Covid-19, but also help prevent them from spreading the virus to others.

https://www.advisory.com/en/daily-brief ... kly-review

What they do (well the one I've had does, it isn't approved in the US afaik) is prevent systemic infection, which is how this virus can fuck you up even if it doesn't kill you.


It has been reportedly shown to do that for a limited amount of time (approximately 6 months), and then boosters are recommended, yearly. The vaccines can also -- and have also -- fuck you up and kill you, too.

I'd rather take my chances with the virus in the wild. Indeed, to this point that's exactly what I've done. I can appreciate others taking a different route, but I don't appreciate being forced to comply with experimental medical intervention. I won't, unless I freely choose to do so.

Meanwhile there are early treatments/remedies with FAR LESS risk being suppressed -- in messaging, and in the ability of doctors to readily offer them as treatments.

And of course the coercion/mandates/blatant propaganda pushing these 'vaccine' products on the populace as a condition for employment, movement, commerce (which you've indicated here you're against).
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:37 pm

Joe Hillshoist » 09 Nov 2021 01:02 wrote:
stickdog99 » 09 Nov 2021 09:15 wrote:
Joe Hillshoist » 08 Nov 2021 08:31 wrote:
Harvey » 07 Nov 2021 11:21 wrote:
Elvis » Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:23 pm wrote:Now this is interesting

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:06 am wrote:
And a very pointed indictment of the ubiquitous media messaging that vaccination holdouts are responsible for the delta spread:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-00808-7


to wit:
CORRESPONDENCE
Published: 30 September 2021

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

S. V. Subramanian & Akhil Kumar

European Journal of Epidemiology (2021)Cite this article

1.34m Accesses
20784 Altmetric
Metrics


Ahem...


Harvey » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:11 am wrote:Far Right hate group, Harvard, release Covid-19 study (<--- probably true though):

Increases in COVID‑19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/1 ... 0808-7.pdf

…..

Findings

At the country-level, there appears to be no discernable relationship between percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases in the last 7 days (Fig. 1).

In fact, the trend line suggests a marginally positive association such that countries with higher percentage of population fully vaccinated have higher COVID-19 cases per 1 million people.

Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. The lack of a meaningful association between percentage population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases is further exemplified, for instance, by comparison of Iceland and Portugal. Both countries have over 75% of their population fully vaccinated and have more COVID-19 cases per 1 million people than countries such as Vietnam and South Africa that have around 10% of their population fully vaccinated.

Across the US counties too, the median new COVID-19 cases per 100,000 people in the last 7 days is largely similar across the categories of percent population fully vaccinated (Fig. 2). Notably there is also substantial county variation in new COVID-19 cases within categories of percentage population fully vaccinated.

There also appears to be no significant signalling of COVID-19 cases decreasing with higher percentages of population fully vaccinated (Fig. 3). Of the top 5 counties that have the highest percentage of population fully vaccinated (99.9–84.3%), the US Cent-ers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies 4 of them as “High” Transmission counties.

Chattahoochee (Georgia), McKinley (New Mexico), and Arecibo (Puerto Rico) counties have above 90% of their population fully vaccinated with all three being classified as “High” transmission.

Conversely, of the 57 counties that have been classified as “low” transmission counties by the CDC, 26.3% (15) have percentage of population fully vaccinated below 20%.

…... etc



But it's alright, further down, Joe says the study proves the opposite of what it seems to, and everything is peachy.


In all of those graphs there is an obvious trend to lower cases as vaccination rates get over 70% and consistently the epidemiologists studying Delta covid say because its more virulent higher numbers of vaccinations are required to achieve lower transmission rates. They talk about 90%+ compared to 70% with earlier strains.

None of those graphs have results above 70% vaccination rates but do suggest that as they rates approach and go just beyond 70% numbers of recent infections are dropping.


LOL.

Note that religious devotion to the idea that vaccinations must be working even as the raw data suggest the exact opposite.

It just has to be that not enough people have been vaccinated! That's the only possible explanation for their being no correlation between vaccination rate and COVID-19 case rate to date once you have decided that COVID-19 vaccination is a moral imperative.


Singapore has 25 thousand active cases from a population of 5-6 million people and a death rate at least 25 times lower than the US per million people. At no time have more than 20 people died of or with or whatever its is about covid on any one day in Singapore since this outbreak started.

And when did someone say these vaccines would stop transmission? I don't recall ever hearing that. They seem to lower the rate of transmission but they don't stop it.

What they do (well the one I've had does, it isn't approved in the US afaik) is prevent systemic infection, which is how this virus can fuck you up even if it doesn't kill you.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... eek-44.pdf

See page 20:

Image

The UK per 100,000 case rate is now more than TWICE as high among the vaccinated than among the unvaccinated for all demographics from age 40 to age 80.
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