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by stickdog99 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:06 am
by Searcher08 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:07 am
nathan28 wrote:Searcher08 wrote:I have absolutely no idea what you are saying with your reply.
We are living in a culture where personal freedom is on the wane - maybe you have not been to an airport recently.
And we live in a culture where libertarians pretend they support the "rights" of "everyone", but seem to stop when it comes to asking whether or not women have a reasonable expectation not to have their reproductive organs removed when there's a quite possibly very effective prevention against that because, oh, shit, that's, like, complicated. Better go get back to that red herring about retarded security measures at airports, that's clear-cut.
by Plutonia » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:15 pm
by Searcher08 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:53 pm
Plutonia wrote:Interesting isn't it how any attempt to actually discuss vaccines (or autism) ends in a slap fight?
How did it get this way one wonders?
Oh, yeah! It was by design.
Two points to the other team.
by Plutonia » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:02 pm
Sure. The example I gave of a sterilizing agent hidden in flu vaccines destined for a Native community, supports a "social control" opportunism. But they will use anything, won't they.Searcher08 wrote:Plutonia wrote:I'm interested in what you think about my points re a potential 'social control' dimension in this subject... (please note Im not commenting on the effectiveness or not of a specific vaccine itself!)
by Searcher08 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:37 pm
Plutonia wrote:Sure. The example I gave of a sterilizing agent hidden in flu vaccines destined for a Native community, supports a "social control" opportunism. But they will use anything, won't they.Searcher08 wrote:Plutonia wrote:I'm interested in what you think about my points re a potential 'social control' dimension in this subject... (please note Im not commenting on the effectiveness or not of a specific vaccine itself!)
I'd still get a rabies shot if I needed it and if I had kids, I'd be very careful about what got stuck into them. It's not all one thing, is it?
.by stickdog99 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:35 pm
by DevilYouKnow » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:25 pm
Plutonia wrote:about metal toxicity, what's up with colloidal silver and gold?
Sorry, no. Long time ago.And teh HIV is another subject that's been polluted into an indecipherable mess. Do you remember the name of that doc you saw?
by Plutonia » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:00 pm
Searcher08 wrote:Plutonia wrote:Sure. The example I gave of a sterilizing agent hidden in flu vaccines destined for a Native community, supports a "social control" opportunism. But they will use anything, won't they.Searcher08 wrote:Plutonia wrote:I'm interested in what you think about my points re a potential 'social control' dimension in this subject... (please note Im not commenting on the effectiveness or not of a specific vaccine itself!)
I'd still get a rabies shot if I needed it and if I had kids, I'd be very careful about what got stuck into them. It's not all one thing, is it?
I agree that it is very important to have as rich a map of this as possible. Misunderstandings lead very quickly to a bunfight mentality, but it is still worth trying to understand the viewpoint of people whose lights we might feel like punching out. In fact all the more so
If I reflect on my own mental map, I have big cautions over the issue of vaccine combination (even of safe ones), for reasons mentioned above.
A category of uncertainty
For things like yellow fever and tropical diseases, I would take them, spaced out over several month intervals. SO A category of safer, but use with caution
When I look at the birdflu programme, that appears much more like Pharmascam Inc to me.
A category of scam
When I look at "Yearly flu jabs" - I think, Thanks but no thanks
A category of personal freedom
Bitten by a dog in India, rabies shots here I come - I have no wish to re-enact 28 Days Later
A category of emergency
I have had some involvement with both alternative medicine (lecturing) and Pharma companies (doing vanilla flavour process consulting). Regarding the MMR, I was quite surprised to mind that many of the people associated with the MMR in PharmaVille were not giving it to their own children due to what seemed to be perceived safety issues.
by catbirdsteed » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:15 pm
The Rosenhan experiment was a famous experiment into the validity of psychiatric diagnosis conducted by psychologist David Rosenhan in 1973. It was published in the journal Science under the title "On being sane in insane places."[1] The study is considered an important and influential criticism of psychiatric diagnosis.[2]
Rosenhan's study was done in two parts. The first part involved the use of healthy associates or "pseudopatients" who briefly simulated auditory hallucinations in an attempt to gain admission to 12 different psychiatric hospitals in five different states in various locations in the United States. All were admitted and diagnosed with psychiatric disorders. After admission, the pseudopatients acted normally and told staff that they felt fine and had not experienced any more hallucinations. Hospital staff failed to detect a single pseudopatient, and instead believed that all of the pseudopatients exhibited symptoms of ongoing mental illness. Several were confined for months. All were forced to admit to having a mental illness and agree to take antipsychotic drugs as a condition of their release.
The second part involved asking staff at a psychiatric hospital to detect non-existent "fake" patients. No fake patients were sent, yet the staff falsely identified large numbers of ordinary patients as impostors.
The study concluded, "It is clear that we cannot distinguish the sane from the insane in psychiatric hospitals" and also illustrated the dangers of dehumanization and labeling in psychiatric institutions. It suggested that the use of community mental health facilities which concentrated on specific problems and behaviors rather than psychiatric labels might be a solution and recommended education to make psychiatric workers more aware of the social psychology of their facilities.
The pseudopatient experiment
Rosenhan himself and eight mentally healthy associates, called "pseudopatients", attempted to gain admission to psychiatric hospitals by calling for an appointment and feigning auditory hallucinations. The hospital staffs were not informed of the experiment. The pseudopatients included a psychology graduate student in his twenties, three psychologists, a pediatrician, a psychiatrist, a painter and a housewife. None had a history of mental illness. Pseudopatients used pseudonyms, and those who worked in the mental health field were given false jobs in a different sector to avoid invoking any special treatment or scrutiny. Apart from giving false names and employment details, further biographical details were truthfully reported.
During their initial psychiatric assessment, they claimed to be hearing voices of the same sex as the patient which were often unclear, but which seemed to pronounce the words "empty", "hollow", "thud" and nothing else. These words were chosen as they vaguely suggest some sort of existential crisis and for the lack of any published literature referencing them as psychotic symptoms. No other psychiatric symptoms were claimed. If admitted, the pseudopatients were instructed to "act normally," reporting that they felt fine and no longer heard voices. Hospital records obtained after the experiment indicate that all pseudopatients were characterized as friendly and cooperative by staff. All were admitted, to 12 different psychiatric hospitals across the United States, including rundown and underfunded public hospitals in rural areas, urban university-run hospitals with excellent reputations, and one expensive private hospital. Though presented with identical symptoms, 11 were diagnosed with schizophrenia at public hospitals, and one with manic-depressive psychosis, a more optimistic diagnosis with better clinical outcomes, at the private hospital. Their stays ranged from 7 to 52 days, and the average was 19 days. All were discharged with a diagnosis of schizophrenia "in remission," which Rosenhan takes as evidence that mental illness is perceived as an irreversible condition creating a lifelong stigma rather than a curable illness.
Despite constantly and openly taking extensive notes on the behavior of the staff and other patients, none of the pseudopatients were identified as imposters by the hospital staff, although many of the other psychiatric patients seemed to be able to correctly identify them as impostors. In the first three hospitalizations, 35 of the total of 118 patients expressed a suspicion that the pseudopatients were sane, with some suggesting that the patients were researchers or journalists investigating the hospital.
Hospital notes indicated that staff interpreted much of the pseudopatients' behavior in terms of mental illness. For example, one nurse labeled the note-taking of one pseudopatient as "writing behavior" and considered it pathological. The patients' normal biographies were recast in hospital records along the lines of what was expected of schizophrenics by the then-dominant theories of its etiology.
The pseudopatients were required to get out of the hospital on their own by getting the hospital to release them, though a lawyer was retained to be on call for emergencies when it became clear that the pseudopatients would not ever be voluntarily released on short notice. Once admitted and diagnosed, the pseudopatients were not able to obtain their release until they agreed with the psychiatrists that they were mentally ill and began taking antipsychotic medications, which they flushed down the toilet. No staff member noticed that the pseudopatients were flushing their medication down the toilets and did not report patients doing this.
Rosenhan and the other pseudopatients reported an overwhelming sense of dehumanization, severe invasion of privacy, and boredom while hospitalized. Their possessions were searched randomly, and they were sometimes observed while using the toilet. They reported that though the staff seemed to be well-meaning, they generally objectified and dehumanized the patients, often discussing patients at length in their presence as though they were not there, and avoiding direct interaction with patients except as strictly necessary to perform official duties. Some attendants were prone to verbal and physical abuse of patients when other staff were not present. A group of bored patients waiting outside the cafeteria for lunch early were said by a doctor to his students to be experiencing "oral-acquisitive" psychiatric symptoms. Contact with doctors averaged 6.8 minutes per day.
"I told friends, I told my family, 'I can get out when I can get out. That's all. I'll be there for a couple of days and I'll get out.' Nobody knew I'd be there for two months … The only way out was to point out that they're [the psychiatrists] correct. They had said I was insane, 'I am insane; but I am getting better.' That was an affirmation of their view of me." — David Rosenhan in the BBC program "The Trap."[3]
[edit] The non-existent impostor experiment
For this experiment, Rosenhan used a well-known research and teaching hospital, whose staff had heard of the results of the initial study but claimed that similar errors could not be made at their institution. Rosenhan arranged with them that during a three month period, one or more pseudopatients would attempt to gain admission and the staff would rate every incoming patient as to the likelihood they were an impostor. Out of 193 patients, 41 were considered to be impostors and a further 42 were considered suspect. In reality, Rosenhan had sent no pseudopatients and all patients suspected as impostors by the hospital staff were ordinary patients. This led to a conclusion that "any diagnostic process that lends itself too readily to massive errors of this sort cannot be a very reliable one". Studies by others found similarly problematic diagnostic results.[citation needed]
[edit] Impact and controversy
Rosenhan published his findings in Science, criticizing the reliability of psychiatric diagnosis and the disempowering and demeaning nature of patient care experienced by the associates in the study. His article generated an explosion of controversy.
Many defended psychiatry, arguing that as psychiatric diagnosis relies largely on the patient's report of their experiences, faking their presence no more demonstrates problems with psychiatric diagnosis than lying about other medical symptoms. In this vein psychiatrist Robert Spitzer quoted Kety in a 1975 criticism of Rosenhan's study:
If I were to drink a quart of blood and, concealing what I had done, come to the emergency room of any hospital vomiting blood, the behavior of the staff would be quite predictable. If they labeled and treated me as having a bleeding peptic ulcer, I doubt that I could argue convincingly that medical science does not know how to diagnose that condition.[4]
by Plutonia » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:38 pm
catbirdsteed wrote:... Besides, the inability of the medical community to develop a clear understanding of what autism, how it is engendered .. To compound that, folks that would otherwise agree on some or even most related issues will often tend to digress on the nature and value of medicine, vaccines or autism.
by lupercal » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:00 pm
Plutonia wrote:CBS, I did ask very nicely that posters who insist on bringing autism into the discussion of vaccine safety, be good enough to present some actual evidence of a link between the two in order to justify their doing so.
I understand that you may have overlooked my request, it's completely understandable with all the activity here yesterday, never the less, I insist on it as, let's say, more than a courtesy.
I will wait for you to either present some sound evidence of a link between autism and vaccines or retract your above statement.
Thank you.
lupercal wrote: . . . there are studies galore making it clear that pharma companies have known about the dangers of mercury for decades, lied about it, caused unbelievable damage, and are now covering their butts a la operation asbestos, which we're also not supposed to know about:
Tobacco Science and the Thimerosal Scandal
by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. - June 22, 2005
http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/docs/Th ... lFINAL.PDF
Pages 18-22 of 66:
Indeed, the link between ethyl mercury and neurological disorders is as well-documented in medical and scientific literature as the link between tobacco and cancer.55 And the totality of the evidence is overwhelming. Scores of animal, DNA, epidemiological, clinical, cadaver and other studies point to mercury as a prime culprit in America’s epidemic of neurological disorders.56
Toxicological studies show mercury, in all forms, is a potent neurotoxin,57 and many studies support a relationship between thimerosal exposure and neurodevelopmental disorders.58 59 Animal studies and experimental studies clearly document biological and molecular abnormalities in brains exposed to thimerosal. Among them, multiple in vitro experiments with cells from the brains of animals prove that thimerosal causes membrane damage and cell death. 60
Pharmacokinetic studies show that mercury tends to accumulate (and remain for considerable periods of time) in the brains of primates and other animals after injection of Thimerosal, and its dangers have long been assumed by the pharmaceutical industry and within governmental regulatory agencies and in the scientific community. 61
Truckloads of studies show that developing infant brains are particularly susceptible to low doses of mercury. 62 63 Reams of medical evidence from Europe, Russia, Japan and the United States link thimerosal (ethylmercury) to developmental and other neurological disorders, including autism.“You couldn’t construct a study that shows thimerosal is safe,” Dr. Boyd Haley told me. “It’s just too darn toxic. If you inject thimerosal into an animal, its brain will sicken,” he continued. “If you apply it to living tissue, the cells die. If you put it in a Petri dish, the culture dies. Knowing these things, it would be shocking if one could inject it into an infant without causing damage.” 64
Indeed, no clinical study has ever demonstrated the safety (or the efficacy) 65 of thimerosal-containing vaccines.
The damaging effect of thimerosal, for example, is uncontested in Eli Lilly’s own Material Safety Data Sheet, a disclosure document required by federal law. Lilly acknowledges that thimerosal is “toxic;” has “Nervous System and Reproductive Effects” and “alters genetic material.” The company also warns that exposure to the mercury in their product “in utero and in children can cause mild to severe mental retardation and mild to severe motor coordination impairment.”66
In 1977, a well-known published Russian study by Dr. N.D. Mukhtarova found that the majority of adults who were exposed to much lower concentrations of ethyl mercury than those given to American children in vaccines were still suffering neurological injury and neuropathology several years after the exposure.67
…………………………………………………………………….
55 In August of 1998, the FDA reviewed the existing literature on Thimerosal in an internal “Point Paper” prepared for the Maternal Immunization Working Group. This document recommended [emphasis added]: For investigational vaccines indicated for maternal immunization, the use of single dose vials should be required to avoid the need of preservative in multi-dose vials…Of concern here is the potential neurotoxic effect of mercury especially when considering cumulative doses of this component in early infancy. Subcommittee on Human Rights and Wellness, Government Reform Committee. Mercury in Medicine Report. Washington, DC: Congressional Record, May 21, 2003:E1011-30. The EMEA, which is responsible for establishing guidelines for the use of drugs and biologics in the European Union, issued a report on June 29, 1999, following an initial meeting in London on April 19, 1999 encouraging the removal of Thimerosal from childhood vaccines [emphasis added]: The toxicity profile of ethylmercury would appear to be similar to that of methylmercury. “In view of the demonstrated risks of Thimerosal and other mercurial containing preservatives, for vaccination in infants and toddlers, the use of vaccines without Thimerosal and other mercurial preservatives should be encouraged.” Subcommittee on Human Rights and Wellness, Government Reform Committee. Mercury in Medicine Report. Washington, DC: Congressional Record, May 21, 2003:E1011-30. In a July 2, 1999, email, Dr. Ruth Etzel of the USDA noted [emphasis added]: “We must follow three basic rules: (1) act quickly to inform pediatricians that the products have more mercury than we realized; (2) be open with consumers about why we didn’t catch this earlier; (3) show contrition. If the public loses faith in the Public Health Services recommendations, then the immunization battle will falter. To keep faith, we must be open and honest and move forward quickly to replace these products.” See also Jalili MA, Abbasi AH. Poisoning by ethyl mercury toluene sulphonanilide. Br J Ind Med 1961;18:303-8. (Mass poisoning of Iraqi farmers by ethyl mercury) See also Samluji S. Granosan M Mercurial poisoning with fungicide. J Fac Med Baghdad 1962;4:83-103. See also Dahhan SS, Orfaly H., Electrocardiographic Changes In Mercury Poisoning. Am J Cardiol. 1964 Aug;14:178-83. (Ethyl mercury poisoning causes heart and tissue injury.) See also Al-Kassab S, Saigh N. Mercury and calcium excretion in chronic poisoning with organic mercury compounds. J Fac Med Baghdad 1962;4:118-123. See also Spann JW, Heath RG, Kreitzer JF, Locke LN. Ethyl mercury p-toluene sulfonanilide: Lethal and reproductive effects on pheasants. Science 1972;175:328-31. (Water birds die or suffer reproductive effects from ethyl mercury exposure).
56 Baskin DS, et al., Thimerosal induces DNA breaks, caspase-3 activation, membrane damage, and cell death in cultured human neurons and fibroblasts, Toxicological Sciences 74(2):361-8 (2003) (Study demonstrates that thimerosal in micromolar concentrations rapidly induces membrane and DNA damage and initiates programmed cell death in human nervous system cells and muscles.)and Costa M, et al, DNA Damage by Mercury Compounds: An Overview, Advances in Mercury Toxicology, Suzuki T, et al,(Eds.), Rochester Series on Environmental Toxicity, Plenum Press, New York, pages 255-273 (1991) (Review of mercury and DNA damage. Most abundant DNA lesions induced by mercury were DNA strand breaks. As breaks are not repaired, the authors suggest these may be of significance in producing cell death. Mercury was found to bind tightly to DNA and no agent was found that could dissociate the two.) and Ariza ME, et al, Mutagenic effect of mercury in eukaryotic cells, In Vivo 1994 Jul-Aug;8(4):559-63, (Acute exposure to low concentrations of mercury in Chinese hamster ovary cells results in a dose dependent binding of mercury to DNA. Study showed that even low doses (0.1 to 0.4 microM) of mercury that were non-toxic to cells caused mutations in genes when compared to non-treated controls)
57 A quick search at the National Library of Medicine’s PUBMED and TOXNET websites netted hundreds and even thousands of studies on search terms such as: mercury neurotoxicity, mercury and development and mercury and brain. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed) and (http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search). NoMercury.org has a page dedicated to such studies: The Science, “Is Mercury in Vaccines Dangerous?” (2005) at: http://www.nomercury.org/science.htm (last visited June 15, 2005).
58 Ball LK, Ball R, Pratt RD. An assessment of thimerosal use in childhood vaccines. Pediatrics. 2001 May;107(5):1147-54. PMID: 11331700. (High-dose exposure to thimerosal causes acute neurotoxicity and nephrotoxicity. Limited data on toxicity from low-dose exposures to ethylmercury are available, but toxicity may be similar to that of methylmercury … Exposure of infants to mercury in vaccines can be reduced or eliminated by using products formulated without thimerosal as a preservative.”).Gasset AR, et al., Teratogenicities of ophthalmic drugs. II, Arch Ophthalmol 1975;93:52-55. (The ethyl mercury from Thimerosal readily crosses the blood/brain barrier and placenta when administered to rabbits and their offspring.) and Makani S, Gollapudi S, Yel L, Chiplunkar S, Gupta S. Biochemical and molecular basis of thimerosal-induced apoptosis in T cells: a major role of mitochondrial pathway. Genes Immun. 2002 Aug;3(5):270-8. PMID: 12140745. (Thimerosal causes important immune system cells to self-destruct by disrupting the energy pathway causing an imbalance in the cell's chemistry to the point of overloading the cell's defense system (glutathione). and Murata K, et al, Delayed brainstem auditory evoked potential latencies in 14-year-old children exposed to methylmercury, J Pediatr. 2004 Feb;144(2): 177-83, (Study looked at possible exposure-associated delays in auditory brainstem as objective measure of neurobehavioral toxicity in 14-year-old children with developmental exposure to mercury. Study found that some neurotoxic effects from exposure to mercury in the womb are irreversible.) and Waly M, Olteanu H, Banerjee R, Choi SW, Mason JB, Parker BS, Sukumar S, Shim S, Sharma A, Benzecry JM, Power-Charnitsky VA, Deth RC. Activation of methionine synthase by insulin-like growth factor-1 and dopamine: a target for neurodevelopmental toxins and thimerosal. Mol Psychiatry. 2004 Apr;9(4):358-70. PMID: 14745455. (Study found that thimerosal inhibited growth factor signaling pathways that regulate the body’s ability to excrete heavy metals.) and Derban LK. Outbreak of food poisoning due to alkyl-mercury fungicide on southern Ghana state farm. Arch Environ Health 1974;28:49-52. (Mass poisoning by ethyl-mercury fungicide on southern Ghana state farm kills hundreds and leads to autistic-like symptoms in children.)
59 Baskin DS, et al, Thimerosal induces DNA breaks, caspase-3 activation, membrane damage, and cell death in cultured human neurons and fibroblasts. Toxicological Sciences 74(2):361-8 (2003). (Study demonstrates that thimerosal in micromolar concentrations rapidly induces membrane and DNA damage and initiate programmed cell death in human muscle and nerve tissues.) Ueha-Ishibashi T, Oyama Y, Nakao H, Umebayashi C, Nishizaki Y, Tatsuishi T, Iwase K, Murao K, Seo H. Effect of thimerosal, a preservative in vaccines, on intracellular Ca2+ concentration of rat cerebellar neurons. Toxicology. 2004 Jan 15;195(1):77-84. (Thimerosal caused brain damage and cell mutation in 2-week-old rats and its potency is almost similar to that of methylmercury.) Limke TL, Heidemann SF, Atchison WD. 2004. Disruption of intraneuronal divalent cation regulation by methylmercury: are specific targets involved in altered neuronal development and cytotoxicity in methylmercury poisoning? NeruroToxicology. (25):741-60. (Organic mercury crossing the blood-brain barrier accumulates in the highest concentrations in the cerebellum, especially the neuronal cells. The cerebellum controls movement and cognition.) Oliver WT, Platonow N. Studies on the pharmacology of N-(ethylmercuri)-p-toluenesulfonanilide, Am J Vet Res. 1960 Sep;21:906-16. (Ethylmercury caused progressive degenerative changes in the heart, moderate hypoalbuminemia [an abnormally low blood level of albumin], and reduced blood A/G ratio. It produced diffuse lesions in the cord, cerebellum, cerebrum and caused glomerulonephhritis [a type of kidney disease caused by inflammation of the internal kidney structures (glomeruli)].) Mukai N., An experimental study of alkylmercurial encephalopathy, Acta Neuropathol, Acta Neuropathol (Berl). 1972;22(2):102-9. (Mice injected with ethyl mercury suffer brain damage.) Tryphonas L, Nielsen NO., Pathology of chronic alkylmercury poisoning in swine. Am J Vet Res 1973;34:379-392. (Pigs fed methylmercury suffer severe brain and kidney damage.) Miller MW, Clarkson TW (Eds) et al., Mercury, Mercurials and Mercaptans, Chapter 12. Metabolic fate of ethyl mercury salts in man and animal. Springfield, IL: Charles C. Thomas Publisher, 1973, pgs. 209-32. (Ethylmercury accumulates in brains of mice, causing damage similar to methylmercury.) Wright FC, Palmer JS, Riner JC. Retention of mercury in tissues of cattle and sheep given oral doses of a mercurial fungicide, Ceresan M. J Agric Food Chem 1973;21:614-5. (Mercury accumulates in brain, organs and tissues of sheep and cattle.) See also Cinca I, et al., Accidental ethyl mercury poisoning with nervous system, skeletal muscle, and myocardium injury, J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry. 1980 Feb;43(2):143-9. (“The clinical, electrophysiological, and toxicological, and in two of the patients the pathological data, showed that this organic mercury compound has a very high toxicity not only for the brain, but also for the spinal motoneurones, peripheral nerves, skeletal muscles, and myocardium.”)
60 Humphrey ML, Cole MP, Pendergrass JC, Kiningham KK. Mitochondrial Mediated Thimerosal-Induced Apoptosis in a Human Neuroblastoma Cell Line (SK-N-SH). Neurotoxicology. 2005 Apr 30; [Epub ahead of print] PMID: 15869795. (Study tracked thimerosal’s chemical pathway in cells, found it killed neurons, caused morphological changes, including membrane alterations and cell shrinkage. Findings suggest thimerosal causes deleterious effects on the cellular architecture and initiates cell disintegration.) Parran DK, Barker A, Ehrich M. Effects Of Thimerosal On Ngf Signal Transduction And Cell Death In Neuroblastoma Cells. Toxicol Sci. 2005 Apr 20; [Epub ahead of print] PMID: 15843506. (Human tissue cells exposed to increasing concentrations of Thimerosal experienced cell death and fragmented DNA. Thimerosal interfered with cell function at very low levels, less than 1ppb. At 4.35 nM Thimerosal, 50 percent of neurons were killed in 48 hours, meaning that less than 1ppb of mercury from Thimerosal could kill neurons, nearly 20 times less than Burbacher et al (2005) found building up in the neurons of monkeys (16ppb) after Thimerosal injection. Parran et al concluded that “[t]hese data demonstrate that thimerosal could alter NGF induced signaling in neurotrophin-treated cells at concentrations lower than those responsible for cell death.”) Shanker G, Aschner M. Methylmercury-induced reactive oxygen species formation in neonatal cerebral astrocytic cultures is attenuated by antioxidants. Brain Res Mol Brain Res. 2003 Jan 31;110(1):85-91. (Shanker et al show methylmercury causes oxidative stress and kills brain cells, and that antioxidants protect these cells from damages. Dr. Jill James’ work suggests that autistic children have abnormal levels of antioxidants which would make them more vulnerable to the damages caused by mercury in vaccines.). See also Sebe and Itsuno Organomercury compounds and Minamata disease. Subtle changes within the organism. Nisshin Igaku Jpn J Med Prog. 1962 Sep;49:607-31. Japanese. No abstract available. PMID: 13987554 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966] (Demonstrated neurotoxicity of ethyl mercury, found signs of poisoning in rats, consisting of weight loss, ataxia [inability to coordinate muscular movements], and closing of the hindlegs.) Saito et al. [Studies on Minamata disease. I. Establishment of the criterion for etiological reserch in mice.] Jpn J Exp Med. 1961 Aug;31:277-90, PMID: 14496123 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966] (Ethyl mercury causes dolphin kick convulsion and Minamata disease in mice.) Yonaha M, Ishikura S, Uchiyama M. Toxicity of organic compounds. III. Uptake and retention of mercury in several organs of mice by long term exposure of alkoxethylmercury compounds. Chem Pharm Bull 1975;23:1718-25. Nelson EA, Gottshall RY. Enhanced Toxicity for Mice of Pertussis Vaccines When Preserved with Merthiolate. Appl Microbiol 1967;15:590-593. (Thimerosal-containing vaccines are more toxic for mice than unpreserved vaccines prepared from the same parent concentrate and containing the same number of organisms…An increase in mortality was observed.) Fagan DG, Pritchard JS, Clarkson TW, Greenwood MR. Organ mercury levels in infants with omphaloceles treated with organic mercurial antiseptic. Arch Dis Child. 1977 Dec;52(12):962-4. PMID: 606172 (Analyses of tissues from 10 patients dead from Thimerosal poisoning deduce that Thimerosal can induce blood and organ levels of organic mercury which are well in excess of the minimum toxic levels in adults and fetuses…Although Thiomersal is an ethyl mercury compound, it has similar toxicological properties to methyl mercury and the long-term neurological consequences produced by the ingestion of either methyl or ethyl mercury-based fungicides are indistinguishable.)
61 Yonaha M, Ishikura S, Uchiyama M. Toxicity of organic compounds. III. Uptake and retention of mercury in several organs of mice by long term exposure of alkoxethylmercury compounds. Chem Pharm Bull 1975;23:1718-25. (Rats poisoned by ethyl mercury suffer weight loss, loss of muscle control, and closing of the hindlegs.) Saito et al. reported the dolphin kick convulsion as a criterion for experimental Minamata disease in mice. Blair AMJN, Clark B, Clarke AJ, Wood P. Brain and tissue concentrations of mercury after chronic dosing of squirrel monkeys with thiomersal. Toxicology 1975;3:171-6. (Ethyl mercury from Thimerosal found to lodge in brain tissue of monkeys. Authors concluded “accumulation of mercury from chronic use of thiomersal-preserved medicines is viewed as a potential health hazard for man.”) See also Harry GJ, Harris MW, Burka LT. Mercury concentrations in brain and kidney following ethylmercury, methylmercury and Thimerosal administration to neonatal mice. Toxicol Lett. 2004 Dec 30;154(3):183-9. (Mice injected with Thimerosal accumulate mercury in the brain and kidney. “By 7 days, mercury levels decreased in the blood but were unchanged in the brain.”) and Burbacher T, Shen DD, Liberato N, Grant KS, Cernichiari E, and Clarkson T. “Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to Methylmercury or Vaccines Containing Thimerosal,” The National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, April 21, 2005. Accessed online June 15, 2005 at http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/2005/7712/7712.pdf. (Monkeys were exposed to vaccines containing thimerosal (via i.m. injection) at birth and 1, 2, and 3 weeks of age. Burbacher’s study confirmed the earlier results of other scientists showing that mercury from Thimerosal clears from the blood by going into the organs of the body, not by being excreted.) and Magos L, Brown AW, Sparrow S, Bailey E, Snowden RT, Skipp WR. The comparative toxicology of ethyl- and methylmercury. Arch Toxicol. 1985 Sep;57(4):260-7. PMID: 4091651. (Neurotoxicity of ethyl- and methyl- mercury were similar, though higher levels of inorganic mercury were found in brains of ethylmercury-treated rats.)
62 National Research Council. (2003). Toxicological Effects of Methylmercury. Committee on the Toxicological Effects of Methylmercury, Board on Environmental Studies and Toxicology, Commission on Life Sciences. National Academy Press, Washington, DC. (See Chapter 5.) Mahaffey KR. (1999). Methylmercury: A new look at the risks. Public Health Reports. 114(5):402-13. (Pre-natal and infant mercury exposures cause multiple impacts to basic brain development by disrupting the division and migration of neuronal cells.) See also IOM, NTP, NIEHS PowerPoint presentation: Comparative Toxicity of Ethyl and Methyl Mercury viewed at http://www.iom.edu/includes/DBFile.asp?id=7504. (“Ethylmercury is a potent neurotoxin … Infants may be more susceptible than adults … Ethylmercury exposure from vaccines (added to dietary exposures to methylmercury) probably caused neurotoxic responses (likely subtle) in some children.”)
63 Axton JHM. Six cases of poisoning after a parenteral organic mercurial compound (Merthiolate). Postgrad Med J 1972;48:417-21. (Four children and two adults who were accidentally injected with toxic amounts of Thimerosal…Five out of the six patients died). and Crump KS, et al, Influence of prenatal mercury exposure upon scholastic and psychological test performance: benchmark analysis of a New Zealand cohort, Risk Anal. 1998 Dec;18(6):701-13, (Decreased scholastic and psychological test performance significantly associated with the level of mercury in mothers’ hair.)
64 Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Telephone Interview with Boyd Haley, April 9, 2005.
65 Stetler HC, Garbe PL, Dwyer DM, Facklam RR, Orenstein WA, West GR, Dudley KJ, Bloch AB. Outbreaks of group A streptococcal abscesses following diphtheria-tetanus toxoid-pertussis vaccination.
Pediatrics. 1985 Feb;75(2):299-303. PMID: 3881728. (Study showed thimerosal was ineffective at preventing bacterial contamination. “The only feasible and cost-effective preventive measure now available is careful attention to sterile technique when administering vaccine from multidose vials.”) Notably, one of the co-authors of this study, Dr. Walter Orenstein, served as Director of the National Immunization Program at the CDC from 1993-2002 and promoted continued use of Thimerosal.
66 Eli Lilly, MSDS, (1991). Accessed online June 15, 2005 at http://www.nomercury.org/science/docume ... y-1991.pdf.
67 Mukhtarova ND. Late sequelae of nervous system pathology caused by the action of low concentrations of ethyl mercury chloride. Gig Tr Prof Zabol 1977 Mar(3):4-7.
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I may have introduced some cut-n-paste errors so go to the link, which is a perfectly formatted quotable PDF doc, for the real deal
by barracuda » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:32 pm
Sunday, Jan 16, 2011 13:01 ET
Correcting our record
We've removed an explosive 2005 report by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. about autism and vaccines. Here's why.
By Kerry Lauerman
In 2005, Salon published online an exclusive story by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that offered an explosive premise: that the mercury-based thimerosal compound present in vaccines until 2001 was dangerous, and that he was "convinced that the link between thimerosal and the epidemic of childhood neurological disorders is real."
The piece was co-published with Rolling Stone magazine -- they fact-checked it and published it in print; we posted it online. In the days after running "Deadly Immunity," we amended the story with five corrections (which can still be found logged here***) that went far in undermining Kennedy's exposé. At the time, we felt that correcting the piece -- and keeping it on the site, in the spirit of transparency -- was the best way to operate. But subsequent critics, including most recently, Seth Mnookin in his book "The Panic Virus," further eroded any faith we had in the story's value. We've grown to believe the best reader service is to delete the piece entirely.
"I regret we didn't move on this more quickly, as evidence continued to emerge debunking the vaccines and autism link," says former Salon editor in chief Joan Walsh, now editor at large. "But continued revelations of the flaws and even fraud tainting the science behind the connection make taking down the story the right thing to do." The story's original URL now links to our autism topics page, which we believe now offers a strong record of clear thinking and skeptical coverage we're proud of -- including the critical pursuit of others who continue to propagate the debunked, and dangerous, autism-vaccine link.
by lupercal » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:38 pm
by barracuda » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:54 pm
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