Giffords shooting

[barracuda]

But regardless if Loughner was "handled" or in his own psychosis wanted to kill Giffords, it's now backfired to the other extreme. All indications are that she's recovering beyond what was expected, and if she retains her mental faculties in the coming years...it's going to bring her to Obama circa 07/08 like proportions. Which is the sheer opposite of what someone would want in an assassination. Some have noticed that before Reagan was shot, he stood up to Bush Sr...but after the shooting, he seemed to truly fit into the figurehead role and seemed to really take a backseat with decisions.

The odds that Gabby Giffords will recover to the point where she can avail herself of some sort of "political capital" as a result of this incident are about slim to none, I'm afraid. Despite the numerous reports of her fine progress, she is currently breathing through a tracheotomy and eating through a feeding tube. The typical course of recovery from such a devastating injury is years and years of difficult therapy and care. Any other outcome here, such as a return to politics on the order of actually performing the duties of a congressperson, would be nothing short of a miracle. I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm merely saying I doubt very strongly that it will.

[Nordic]

Doesn't say anything about it being his mug shot.

A mugshot just released of Jared Lee Loughner, the 22-year-old man accused of the attempted assassination of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and the killing of six others in Tucson, has become a focal point for the strong reactions felt across the United States and even global community after last weekend's violence.

The mugshot, which shows Loughner staring straight into the camera with an unsettling smirk on his face, has been splashed across the front pages of American and international newspaper websites. As this is being written, it appears as the lead photograph on the NYTimes.com and LATimes.com slideshows and on the front page of WashingtonPost.com, BBC News, Yahoo News, The Huffington Post, The Times of London, The Daily Telegraph and other top news sites.

Loughner appeared in a federal courtroom in Phoenix Monday with his lawyer Judy Clarke. The college dropout faces two federal murder charges and three attempted murder charges. Magistrate Judge Lawrence Anderson called Loughner a "danger to the community" and ordered him held without bond. Rep. Giffords remains hospitalized in critical condition after being shot in the head.

In the photograph, released by the Pima County Sheriff's Forensic Unit, light shines off Loughner's bald head. He has freckles and what looks like the tracings of a black eye. What makes the image striking is not the face itself, but the look the young man conveys. He grabs the viewer with his eyes, looking straight ahead and not backing down or showing any sign of shame or remorse. Viewing the image — and knowing what the subject is accused of doing — leaves many viewers wondering if the man is mentally ill.

On the social networking site Twitter, the mugshot has been discussed at length with people calling it "creepy" and "eery" and others pleading with the media to stop showing the photograph.


One person wrote: "Have yall seen this Jared loughner mugshot??? My god... Keith olbermann, please stop showing that joint. I am all types of creeped out."

Another wrote, "Jared lee loughner's mugshot will forever haunt me in my dreams."

Another called it "one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen."

Are you and I living in the same universe?

[Joe Hillshoist]

If that's accurate, I find it shows some quick-wittedness that he was able to position himself that advantageously, or maybe he had some training (which isn't that hard to come by, I know people who have taken "tactical" firearms courses for the hell of it).

Or he just logged in 2000 hours of Halo and Call of Duty. Still, it is amazing that a guy could be so frantic and unbalanced and yet to focused once inside the kill zone. He had a very high target rate. Still begs question of entry point of first shot vs. his position, Giffords placement.

Sickening to think just how easy it was.

I thought about that, but firing a gun is a lot fucking different than pressing a video game controller's buttons. You know, like recoil and noise. To start I think "lean forward line up sights breath aim squezze shoot follow-through" if I so much as have an air rifle in my hands, a discrete and repeated process conspiciously absent from clicking a mouse button. I can't speak to in-the-moment judgment calls like positioning and cover, but can't imagine it has anywhere near the same texture in experience, either. Of course you have to try something to learn how to do it, so maybe he was just applying what he learned from Halo 16 or whatever.

He shot 19 people with 31 rounds at what sort of range? (cos I dunno but it might be important,), and actually didn't succeed in killing his primary target. Then got subdued cos someone was able to prevent him reloading the handgun.

I'd need to know about the range he was acting at and that the figures are right, but if you do the maths he killed six people with 31 rounds. That means 5 bullets per kill at least, and if some, like the 9 year old I presume, took less than 5 rounds then the numbers go up more.

To me that doesn't sound that difficult to someone with an amounbt of familiarity with handguns.

And although linking FPS with better shooting of actual guns is pretty dumb, there may be some training effect. OK with a fps you have to co ordinate hand movements with your eyes.

Tho everything Nathan mentioned above wrt rifle shooting (targets I presume), all of that is actually seperate to your hand eye coordination. nathan's talking about technique and (imo) FPS train the hand eye coordination that goes with the technique.

If you didn't have any idea of how to shoot a gun, no amount of FPS will make a difference. However if you do, it may have a cross training effect that is significant (in the scientific sense ie effect not due to chance, but to X-training).

I heard stories that martin Bryant in Tassie at port Arthur used less than 2 bullets per kill, with a handgun, in the space of 15 or 20 seconds at one point. It was one of the reasons that some people were so adamant there was more to the massacre that just him or what was reported in the MSM. Basically they didn't believe he was capable of that.

[justdrew]

That means 5 bullets per kill at least

well, he's way ahead of the U.S. military then, which is running at something like 25,000 bullets per kill in AfPak

[Avalon]

No it's not his mugshot as far as I know, even though they are calling it that all over the net. I don't think I've seen any mention of what the context of that photo is, nor why his head was shaved in custody (unless perhaps for lice).

There's also been a lot of calling Sarah Palin's crosshairs symbol a bullseye, which should be saved for concentric rings like the Target symbol.

[8bitagent]

He shot 19 people with 31 rounds at what sort of range? (cos I dunno but it might be important,), and actually didn't succeed in killing his primary target. Then got subdued cos someone was able to prevent him reloading the handgun.

I'd need to know about the range he was acting at and that the figures are right, but if you do the maths he killed six people with 31 rounds. That means 5 bullets per kill at least, and if some, like the 9 year old I presume, took less than 5 rounds then the numbers go up more.

To me that doesn't sound that difficult to someone with an amounbt of familiarity with handguns.

And although linking FPS with better shooting of actual guns is pretty dumb, there may be some training effect. OK with a fps you have to co ordinate hand movements with your eyes.

Tho everything Nathan mentioned above wrt rifle shooting (targets I presume), all of that is actually seperate to your hand eye coordination. nathan's talking about technique and (imo) FPS train the hand eye coordination that goes with the technique.

If you didn't have any idea of how to shoot a gun, no amount of FPS will make a difference. However if you do, it may have a cross training effect that is significant (in the scientific sense ie effect not due to chance, but to X-training).

I heard stories that martin Bryant in Tassie at port Arthur used less than 2 bullets per kill, with a handgun, in the space of 15 or 20 seconds at one point. It was one of the reasons that some people were so adamant there was more to the massacre that just him or what was reported in the MSM. Basically they didn't believe he was capable of that.

What still trips me out is that the VT Tech shooter killed 30 people in a classroom, killing everyone in there. The idea that not one person successfully tackled him seems odd. Is it just that Arizona
senior citizens are most feisty?

[8bitagent]

No it's not his mugshot as far as I know, even though they are calling it that all over the net. I don't think I've seen any mention of what the context of that photo is, nor why his head was shaved in custody (unless perhaps for lice).

There's also been a lot of calling Sarah Palin's crosshairs symbol a bullseye, which should be saved for concentric rings like the Target symbol.

It seems like JLL did everything he could, over a long period of time, to groom himself as the face of America's new psychopath. Calling himself "Jared Lee Loughner" instead of Jared Loughner. All the mad rambling notes at home. The altar. The crazy face in the "mugshot". Was he grooming himself with abundant bread crumbs for this very moment?

[Joe Hillshoist]

That means 5 bullets per kill at least

well, he's way ahead of the U.S. military then, which is running at something like 25,000 bullets per kill in AfPak

Yeah but he's not selling them on the side either....

[Joe Hillshoist]

No it's not his mugshot as far as I know, even though they are calling it that all over the net. I don't think I've seen any mention of what the context of that photo is, nor why his head was shaved in custody (unless perhaps for lice).

There's also been a lot of calling Sarah Palin's crosshairs symbol a bullseye, which should be saved for concentric rings like the Target symbol.

It seems like JLL did everything he could, over a long period of time, to groom himself as the face of America's new psychopath. Calling himself "Jared Lee Loughner" instead of Jared Loughner. All the mad rambling notes at home. The altar. The crazy face in the "mugshot". Was he grooming himself with abundant bread crumbs for this very moment?

Quite possibly. If this was a movie he'd be a mad scientist plotting to destroy or take over the world. (Maybe?)

This is how he is trying to exercise power imo, and I get the impression he has been quite thoughtful about it.

[Joe Hillshoist]

He shot 19 people with 31 rounds at what sort of range? (cos I dunno but it might be important,), and actually didn't succeed in killing his primary target. Then got subdued cos someone was able to prevent him reloading the handgun.

I'd need to know about the range he was acting at and that the figures are right, but if you do the maths he killed six people with 31 rounds. That means 5 bullets per kill at least, and if some, like the 9 year old I presume, took less than 5 rounds then the numbers go up more.

To me that doesn't sound that difficult to someone with an amounbt of familiarity with handguns.

And although linking FPS with better shooting of actual guns is pretty dumb, there may be some training effect. OK with a fps you have to co ordinate hand movements with your eyes.

Tho everything Nathan mentioned above wrt rifle shooting (targets I presume), all of that is actually seperate to your hand eye coordination. nathan's talking about technique and (imo) FPS train the hand eye coordination that goes with the technique.

If you didn't have any idea of how to shoot a gun, no amount of FPS will make a difference. However if you do, it may have a cross training effect that is significant (in the scientific sense ie effect not due to chance, but to X-training).

I heard stories that martin Bryant in Tassie at port Arthur used less than 2 bullets per kill, with a handgun, in the space of 15 or 20 seconds at one point. It was one of the reasons that some people were so adamant there was more to the massacre that just him or what was reported in the MSM. Basically they didn't believe he was capable of that.

What still trips me out is that the VT Tech shooter killed 30 people in a classroom, killing everyone in there. The idea that not one person successfully tackled him seems odd. Is it just that Arizona
senior citizens are most feisty?

Who tackled him? I heard a girl/young woman grabbed the magazine as he tried to reload, (Which implies he was amateur imo). And cos she stopped him reloading 2 people nearby had time to disarm and control him.

What I find interesting is that this is the situation where you'd think carrying concealed weapons ... isn't this the situation thats designed for, yet the first legal gun owner on the scene disarmed the person with the gun (not the gunman by this stage) and didn't draw his weapon.

While this indicates he is certainly responsible enough to carry a concealed weapon (I've read an interview with the guy), it completely destroy the arguments in favour of carrying concealed weapons.

(Well I know it doesn't but it does seem ironic.)

[JackRiddler]

.

Video by Loughner released. He walks around Pima College shooting what he sees as he monologues:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuwpewADyx8

.

[elfismiles]

Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
The alleged shooter’s statements closely echo the teachings of a popular far-right tax-resister movement.
— By Justine Sharrock

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01 ... e-loughner

Thanks for that link 2012.

[brainpanhandler]

Video by Loughner released. He walks around Pima College shooting what he sees as he monologues:

I thought you meant he'd be making mock gunfire sounds as he targeted people on campus.

After watching that I don't think Loughner is so much mentally ill as he is just plain stupid.

[Simulist]

Tucson Shooting Victim Arrested for Threatening Tea Party Leader

By: Mike Vilensky
NY Magazine

Sixty-three-year-old James Eric Fuller, who was shot during last week's shooting in Arizona and survived, was arrested following a town-hall meeting yesterday for taking a picture of tea party leader Trent Humphries and yelling, "You're dead!" Fuller apparently became upset after Humphries suggested that conversations about gun control be delayed until all the victims of the shooting were buried. The event was taped for a special edition of ABC’s This Week. Fuller was detained on misdemeanor disorderly conduct and threat charges. Deputies decided he needed a mental-health evaluation, and he was taken to a hospital, which will determine when he will be released.

Yes, Fuller is also the guy who told reporters after the shooting, “It looks like Palin, Beck, Sharron Angle and the rest got their first target." He had campaigned for Giffords during her reelection. He said he attended the "Congress on Your Corner" event where the shooting occurred to "give [Giffords] a boost and to protect her from the tea party crime syndicate and to shout them down." Following the shooting, he also remarked, "Why would [Giffords] attend an event in full view of the public with no security whatsoever? She lived under constant fear of this rhetoric and hatred that was seething."

Since the shooting, Fuller has reportedly been calming himself by writing out the Declaration of Independence, which he memorized 30 years ago. Surprisingly, that didn't work. Of the threat, Humphries said: "My hope continues to remain that we as a community be allowed the ability to heal and focus on those things that will best help our city and its citizens recover from this deadly tragedy."

[Simulist]

Lawmakers: Close look needed at mental health issues
By: CNN's Gabriella Schwarz

WASHINGTON (CNN) – In the wake of the Arizona shooting, the co-founders of the Congressional Mental Health Caucus want to make sure those who suffer from mental illnesses are able to receive the help they want or need.

Democratic Rep. Grace Napolitano of California and Republican Pennsylvania Rep. Tim Murphy, who founded the caucus in 2003, both acknowledged Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union" that more education and action is needed to improve the response to mental illness in the United States.

Click to watch video

"I believe that we are not informing and educating the public enough to be able to help them be able to make the decision to help those they love," Napolitano told CNN Chief Political Correspondent Candy Crowley. "Unfortunately it does not hit the radar scope in Washington or almost in any state house … It's always something you don't talk about, you don't discuss because of the stigma, and I think we need to address that heavily."

Napolitano said educating the public might not have prevented the shooting, but could have helped the alleged shooter before his actions rose to the level that resulted in last Saturday's attack. A motive for the shootings has not yet been determined, but many have pointed to warning signs surrounding suspect Jared Loughner before the attacks, citing red flags raised by classmates and school officials.

Murphy, who worked as a child psychologist before he was elected to Congress, said he hopes members of Congress and those in state Legislatures will be motivated to now "look carefully at their mental health systems and their involuntary commitment system laws," to prevent future attacks.

However, Napolitano was skeptical that the issue will remain in the spotlight.

"Every time there's a tragedy, there's a lot of hoopla for a month, two months, (it) dies down, goes away. Everybody forgets about it and we're on to the next thing," she said.

To prevent that trajectory, Murphy said he hopes to hold hearings to go through the events "piece by piece."

"I want to know where things stand on a state and federal level, what can be done," Murphy said. "We do want to know what happens and what else we can do in the federal level to provide assistance."