Madeleine Incorporated

[chiggerbit]

Should the parents should be charged with neglect? Here's a case that happened not far from here in which 5 children died in a case of arson, said arson not having been committed by either of the parents, but the parents are to be charged with neglect for having left the children alone. The article talks about a second case that happened about the same time.

http://quincychurches.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=47885

[11:11]

both of the theories being tossed around , that the parents did it, that Maddie died in the appart. encourage us to take eyes off the ball.

I''l bet you're right. Haven't read this thread (much) and I'm not too into it, but pay casual attention to the news. Heard a couple lawyers discussing it, saying the Portugese cops are looking to wrap it up, thus the plea deal. You don't offer someone two years if you have blood evidence appearing AFTER the crime, in a car rented weeks later. WTF? John Walsh was also interviewed (father of murdered Adam and host of America's Most Wanted) and said what rookies the Portugese cops are, not competent to run such an investigation (same as Boulder), and how he had seen may cases where the families had been under suspicion for years, with lives ruined, only for the real perp to be caught later. While they are most certainly neglegent for leaving those children alone, it doesn't make them killers. Innocent until proven guilty.

[Avalon]

If you want to see the McCann's in the context of their friends with whom they were holidaying, look into Russell O'Brien. That night he and his wife Jane Tanner had been at dinner at the Tapas bar with the McCanns. They left their 18 month old baby in their apartment, even when it turned out in one of their periodic checks to have been vomiting.

Then there's dinner on May 1st, when the McCanns were asked to go back to their apartment, as the neighbor had compained that Madeleine was crying loudly for quite a long time.

Now Kate's claiming the cadaver scent on her jeans is from handling 6 dead bodies back home when she was working only 1.5 days a week.

[blanc]

If you knew that on the Algarve, not too far from the holiday location in question, a group of organised criminals from the uk had established themselves; that this group had selected a blond 4 year old as one of their victims , who many years later testified, who was retargeted as an adult, that a second blond child who as an adult was retargeted after testifying, brainwashed so that only now, several years later is she beginning to recall what she had once known and recounted, that there was a systematic cover up, that this criminal group claimed to be protected and certainly seemed to have been and still to be, that btw at the time I had most info on them were very pally with a car hire firm much used by tourists, and much more than I can write here besides, how eager would you be to join in the witch hunt based on flimsy speculation about a doctors access to sleeping pills,and a few hints that there may be some forensic evidence that is somehow not conclusive enough to bring murder charges, but can be waved around to support a plea bargaining offer-threat.

I dont know how solid any of the gossip about how the children were left is, or what the implications are for potential charges of neglect, if any. But I absolutely know that organised criminal gangs are operating with almost absolute protection, that police units are swamped with images of pornographic nature, a thousand new ones a week, one dispairing cop said to me, that children disappear in all kinds of circumstances from loving families, and that we are all encouraged to not think about this, about why its happening, about why the authorities are dragging their feet, about how we might find ourselves in kate mccanns shoes one day.

Words of condemnation for Kate for leaving the childrens side, are so much poisoned air. What worse punishment could she have than what has already occurred.

Spend a few minutes thinking out the accidentally killed child hid body returned later theoryand how youd make it fit with running out of the appartment and signalling the childs disappearance immediately.frankly incredible.

Seems to me the McCanns have done a lot to bring into focus the crime of our time , Maddie is a symbol for every disappeared, trafficked, and/or abused child, and there are so very many of them. I dont know what has happened to her, but on currently available evidence, which includes evidence of lack of investigation of perps named by other witnesses, Im in no hurry to accept its being pinned on the parents.

forgot to mention, one of the witnesses against the gang mentioned above described a specific modus op. of theirs, of going to holiday locations and watching families with young children very carefully.

[HMKGrey]

Doesn't this all play to the script that we'd expect, perfectly? With the 'blood in hire car' element compounding it?

Girl taken by protected pedophile ring. Family somehow gets too uppity and achieves too much exposure thus threatening to create a breakthrough against the whole European child pornography scene... thus, they have to be destroyed.

Seems to stack up perfectly to me.

We've got all the elements in place to suggest this: leaks galore from the cops, inexplicably odd DNA evidence that screams 'PLANT!'(Mom apparently moved a body 25 days later) and the press gradually turning ugly (especially in Portugal).

Sounds to me like this a text book case of some hugely powerful organization trying to close something that threatens it down.

I don't doubt that the McCann's are fools who did something very silly and stupid... but don't buy them as killers.

[sunny]

Cadaver dogs reacting positively to the child's toy and the mothers' clothes is a significant developement. OTOH, I cannot for the life of me explain blood in a car rented after the child went missing. Even secondary transfer is ruled out here-if the child died that night, any blood on the parents clothes or other items would have dried by the time the car was hired and would have been difficult to impossible to transfer to another location. Besides, Kate did almost immediately wash the clothes she had on as well as the "cuddle cat". This is not only suspicious, but further rules out secondary transfer. It is also impossible to believe the parents hid the body and moved it later. There was too much scrutiny for them to get away with that.

The only way the blood could have been planted by police would be if they somehow had custody of the body, or if the parents had the child's blood sample lying around for the police to surreptitiously confiscate and use for the purpose of framing them. Are there samples of her blood in the custody of Maddy's doctor or a hospital somewhere, which the police got hold of? If we knew the answer to any of that, we could begin to discern a deliberate police frame up job. As it stands, the parents DO look suspicious.

[alloneword]

Thought I'd share this:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0

(Don't click it if you don't have a sense of humour!)

[blanc]

be reassuring if those dogs were taken around property signalled by witness/plaintiffs, then we might feel no stone has been left unturned.

blood in car hired weeks after a supposed suspicious death does not seem credible

who might have some handy? a yet unidentified perpetrator for instance.
inquiry into the personnel and systems at hire car firm is called for.was there advanced booking of the vehicle? is there other key set?

also, it gets very hot in the Algarve

[antiaristo]

From The Times
September 8, 2007

How couple helped to build ‘brand McCann’ into global phenomenon

Skilful media handlers recruited celebrities and world leaders to a campaign driven by parents’ acceptance of the press as partners

Dominic Kennedy and David Brown

The naming of Kate McCann as a suspect in the disappearance of her daughter is all the more shocking since she has become a symbol of mothers of missing children everywhere.

World leaders and celebrities, from the Vatican, the White House and Downing Street downwards have all been recruited to the “find Madeleine” campaign.

The global missing-persons movement has adopted as its most powerful emblem the mystery of the pretty blonde child who disappeared into the night.

As the McCanns have toured Europe and beyond, relentlessly urging the public to find their little girl, families’ fears that their own children may be abducted have worsened.

Nobody could guess, when the news broke on May 3 that a British child had gone missing, that the riddle would eclipse any crime story of the internet age. What became “brand Madeleine” arose from a combination of brilliant media-handling skills and, for the first time, interactive websites telling editors how much the public craved such a story.

If the Portuguese police were sluggish about starting to search for the missing girl, nobody could accuse British spin-doctors and reporters of being slow off the mark in their hunt for headlines.

The McCanns dominated the news quickly. As doctors and young parents living a quiet provincial life, they had no experience of dealing with the media.

Fortunately, the Mark Warner organisation that runs the holiday camp where Madeleine disappeared was represented by one of the best PRs in the business.

Alex Woolfall is crisis management head at Bell Pottinger, the public relations outfit headed by the original sultan of spin, Lord Bell. Mr Woolfall’s main clients have included that other global brand Coca-Cola.

For the first fortnight after Madeleine disappeared, he was on the spot in Praia da Luz, acting as gobetween for the family and the growing pack of journalists.

“We were aware from the outset that there was a huge amount of media interest and they were very keen to see the media as a partner,” he said in an interview.

“They find themselves having to ask themselves ‘What can we possibly do that means we will be able to sleep tonight, knowing that we have done everything today that we could have done?’.”

In an unprecedented move, the Government took over news-handling on behalf of the McCanns. Sheree Dodd, a former Daily Mirror journalist and long-serving senior spokeswoman for the Government, was dispatched to Portugal. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office announced that she was being deployed as “press officer responsible to act as media liaison officer for the McCann family”.

After a couple of weeks, she was replaced by an even more prominent political figure. Clarence Mitchell, a former BBC News presenter now working as a senior government spin-doctor, became the voice of the McCanns. He was described formally as providing “consular support in exceptional circumstances”. His costs came to just over £6,000, and Ms Dodd’s are likely to be similar.

A Foreign Office source said: “This has been a completely new situation. We had to do something.”

Mr Mitchell was regarded by journalists as an impressive and helpful figure who was sensitive to the needs of the locals as well as the British.

At first, reports suggested that the McCanns would be reluctant to leave Portugal without getting Madeleine back. But they were persuaded to undertake a foreign tour featuring an audience with the Pope, Mr Mitchell sitting close by.

A clever brand image was created. Madeleine has an unusual iris in her right eye that would make her unmistakable even if she were disguised.

Wristbands were issued with the words “Look for Madeleine”. The letters “oo” were designed to resemble the distinctive shape of the girl’s eyes.

Madeleine’s case was seized upon by organisations promoting the search for missing people.But adverse reaction began when a cinema advertisement was screened before the latest Shrek film. Parents complained that their children were being frightened.

To date, the Find Madeleine campaign, which has a much-visited website that seemed to be struggling under the weight of demand yesterday, has raised more than £1 million. Mr McCann posts a regular blog. Its last entry, from Wednesday, is quite ominous and suggests that the media may have been tipped off about looming developments.

“We were surprised to find increased media presence in Praia da Luz again today,” he wrote. “All the excitement seems to be over the results of the recent forensic tests.”

Justine McGuinness, a public relations expert, has been recruited, with the help of a headhunter, to become the McCanns’ private spokeswoman in Praia da Luz.

The media feeding frenzy is driven in part by the popularity of Madeleine McCann stories on news websites. For many of the past 128 days, her name has been the most-searched item.

It’s not surprising, then, that the Daily Express has put Madeleine’s picture on its front page almost every day. Its previous favourite cover girl was that other British blonde who came to grief mysteriously in foreign parts: Diana, Princess of Wales.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 409958.ece

[gideon]

Thought I'd share this:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0

(Don't click it if you don't have a sense of humour!)

That is funny, thanks allone. Mind you, I'm amazed that the Mirror has kept this on it's forum.

[Avalon]

youd make it fit with running out of the appartment and signalling the childs disappearance immediately.frankly incredible.

That's running out of the apartment and leaving Amelie and Sean, who you are trying to say had just missed their own tragic encounter with Mr Perp, alone once again.

[blanc]

dont have fly on the wall info Avalon, but as I see it, a panicking mother probably does quickly eyeball the rest of he appartment, which is probably very small, and then runs to where she can instantly get help , just a few metres away.
getting a body hidden, Hm where? then staging the running out in a panic act, all in the space of time before any of the party think Kates been a long time; hidden btw in an area she does not know where night temperatures dont fall below pleasantly warm and day temps get up to the mid thirties, where land is either covered with villas and appartment blocks of the kind that have bars at the window, or , back a little from the coast, farmed and hunted mainly in a smallholding/peasant way, where its impossible to drive down a road as a stranger, never mind park, without being stared at by locals, and darned easy to get lost,where darkness falls suddenly around half past eight, nine oclock, and on the backroads you cant see a thing. None of the maps you can easily obtain locally show enough of the small roads to navigate easily the hinterland in daylight, still less at night, and the signposting is crap. Its impossible to tell, if you are not local, whether you are in open countryside or trespassing on someones land, signs indicating private property are rare outside the usually foreign owned villa complexes. Even the Portuguese rarely know their way around the areas which are less frequented. I mean just how and where is this distraught english visitor supposed to have disposed of the body of her child, and then, somehow evading the media pack which followed her every move, pick it up,weeks later, and dispose of it again, not leaving any scent which the first wave of dog handling police who searched the area could pick up.The land is hot, dry, dusty and rocky, there are plenty of small clusters of habitiations, where dogs run freely, and teenagers on little scooters and motor bikes zoom around at night.

I dont know what happened that day in May, but this latest theory sounds pretty incredible, pretty unworkable. OTOH watching families who are in unfamiliar surroundings and relaxed, entering properties, having ready prepared safe houses, fabricating and planting evidence, is not a big deal for criminal groups who do this kind of thing. So Im not going with the hang it on the family line until something a lot more thorough in the way of investigation comes through, investigation which rules out the, to me, obvious suspects.

I forgot to mention, the criminal group I am thinking of above , began when 2 of them met up and cut their teeth working in a holiday camp, where one had a job in the creche.

I can understand why this family might have decided not to use a creche where they did not know the personnel, but rather to leave the children where they thought they would have familiar surroundings and an uninterrupted night. I know I would have been having a sandwhich at their tea time and reading a book all night, but Im not judging them for their choices. Being a neurotically careful parent doesnt guarantee your childs safety either. There are too many organised groups of criminals around, operating within a system that hands them all the cards.

[blanc]

deleted spanner in works

[Sepka]

Blood found in the car doesn't necessarily imply that the body was ever in the car. Suppose that one were disposing of some sort of blood-stained evidence several weeks after the crime (or accident). Dried blood could easily flake off, or rub off.

[sunny]

Sepka, forensic examiners can tell if dried blood flaked off another object onto a surface in the car.

Blood evidence at crime scenes present as pools, drops, smears, or crusts. It would be obvious to an experienced investigator if the sourse of the blood was a secondary transfer from a dried sample, in which case the flakes of blood would not adhere to anything and would probably be found lying unattached on the surface of the seat or carpeting of the car. A wet sample, having come directly from the body, would be smeared or pooled, and would soak beneath whatever surface on which it was found. Pools, smears, or drops of blood which have dried become crusts, (Blood begins to dry after 3-5 minutes of exposure to air) and have adhered to the surface, at least partially.