9/11 Cult Watch

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Postby compared2what? » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:25 pm

OP ED wrote:
Jeff wrote:
OP ED wrote:Let me put it this way: "19 Arab Radicals in Caves" do NOT possess the ability to carry out the attack [even the official story] without significant foreign intelligence aid.

Call that racist, I call it reality.


"Arab radicals in caves" = no google hits. "Arabs in caves" over 5,000. Scoffing at the caricature of Arab troglodytes, yes, that is racist.

You know these guys weren't living in caves. They were cultured and Westernized. Connected. Going there is dangerous to the covert players. Saying they were "Arabs in caves" divorces them from the operational structure, and saves the operation.


The part you placed it bold is my point. That even in the cover story we're talking about folks with training/connections/ties/financing from inside the beast, not outside. That "the arabs in caves" is the myth is obvious, but that calling it such can be decried as racism shows the subtlty of the cover-story in its ability to divert conversation into sand traps.

I tend to see the entire semantics area of this as a gigantic, well-designed trap to divert attention. That there are REAL elements of ACTUAL racism involved in SOME places, is most certainly true, but I'd expect it to be very rare in the mainstream CT crowd, mainly because exposure of high-level control mechanisms often convinces people that racism is part of their strategy and not a pathway to truth.

Also, the word "radical" on my part was just my misquoting. I think term 'radical' is also misleading. I was a kid in the eighties and nineties, the ninja turtles are also "radical".

When I use the word "arab" I'll try to be careful not to hurt anyone's feelings. I tend to use it as a term to indicate the "official" account's goal of radicalizing/demonizing [polarizing opinions] about Aram Muslims in general. If this is misunderstood, I apologize for not being more clear.


I just wanted to make what's implicit wrt the arabs-in-caves meme under discussion here explicit.

In too many places, that Arabs are living in extreme poverty, without water and electricity (and possibly literally in caves) is a socioeconomic reality. That reality has to be acknowledged in order constructively to address the poverty. But the imaging and branding campaign that inexorably links the phrase "arabs in caves" to "an ethnicity that is inherently primitive" has made it impossible to acknowledge in simple, declarative terms, which are the only terms most people comprehend or remember. By the time you're finished with whatever counter-racist corrective preface the meme makes necessary and started in on the poverty, most of the world will have changed the channel.

So it's a conversation-stopper. And, functionally, a thought-stopper.

Re-imaging and re-branding are long overdue, obviously. Because there will never be very many people willing to follow the bouncing ball as it takes them from the fall of the Ottoman Empire to the present-day socioeconomic and cultural realities of the individual modern Arab states. The only way to fight dishonest imaging and branding is with honest imaging and branding.

But the left sucks at that stuff and always has, pretty much since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The Wobblies were doing an excellent job in the i & b department, approximately a decade before that. But that only lasted for about ten minutes, and its legacy is not widely known beyond the realm of folk music.

My point is that it's a meme with a larger obstructionist purpose than halting the 9-11 truth movement. And you need to know that, if you want to put a stake in its heart.
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last time on "non-conspiricist" source...

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:49 pm

The "cultwatch" source (and that's catchphrase-mongering) links to this likeminded source which urges us towards all the official government disinfoteers like NIST and deniers INCLUDING... (brief indulgent I toldyaso dance)...
Chip Berlet.

http://non-conspiracist9-11.blogspot.com/

the 9/11 non-conspiracist GAZETTEER

Sunday, January 27, 2008
unmasked Richard Gage, AIA wants your money!
.....
Wednesday, January 16, 2008
The death rattle of the 9/11 “Truth” movement
.....
There’s also a great History Channel video: 9/11 Conspiracies, Fact or Fiction to be found on The History Channel Store. Hey, if i can watch Loose Change, you can watch 9/11 Conspiracies, Fact or Fiction. And if you really want to be brave check out actual debunking sites, such as the Journal of Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories. Better still. read Alexander Cockburn, Matthew Rothschild, Matt Taibbi, and the articles on PublicEye.org - especially Chip Berlet’s review of Griffin’s New Pearl Harbor, and Griffin’s intellectually weak response.
.....
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Postby orz » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:14 pm

(and that's catchphrase-mongering)

So what? Everyone tries to name their site something memorable and pertinent.

I wish you wouldn't point out every single conscious use of words in any context like you're making some profound observation to which we sheeple are oblivious. :roll:
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Postby orz » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:23 pm

Anti-9/11-"truth" blog has anti-9/11-"truth" connections. Shocking.
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Re: HMW lego figure

Postby Jeff » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:41 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Jeff's efforts to save the credibility of this source are unexplainable.


I don't care about the source. It's your credibility that's the issue here for me.
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Re: HMW lego figure

Postby King_Mob » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:18 pm

Jeff wrote:Isachar, you and your band of New Truthers have replaced the actual events, crimes and context of 9/11 with your own fairy tales of Holy Collapse Hypotheses. Good luck with that justice thing.


This is what I don't get Jeff, you supposedly want to focus the spotlight on other "more important evidence" for the sake of avoiding dogma and orthodox, and directing us to the more important goal of "9/11 justice" by doing such things as "following the money". Yet your methods seem to drive the wedge that is dividing this movement, instead of integrating it into a stronger, more cohesive whole.

What do you accomplish by labelling people who believe in the "Holy Collapse Hypothesis" as separate "New Truthers", other than some juvenile stigmatization of people with genuine concern for the forensic evidence that can be shown to be wholly unsupported by the official theory?

Your intuition on this matter seems to be without any rigor whatsoever.
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Postby King_Mob » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:51 pm

orz wrote:Anti-9/11-"truth" blog has anti-9/11-"truth" connections. Shocking.


It doesn't profess to be anti- "truth", however like Jeff, it does profess to be against orthodoxy and dogmatic practices. And indeed, it is quite shocking that a blog dedicated to steering people away from the pitfalls of sich things as the "Holy Demolition Theory", would try to navigate us off the edge of the cliff by attempting to swindle us with disinfo.
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Re: HMW lego figure

Postby DrVolin » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:02 pm

isachar wrote:Hugh, Jeff IS anti-conspiricist when it comes to this subject. That's the whole point.


You realize that he wrote the coincidence theorist's guide, yes? By definition, this would make him a conspiracist. If I read him correctly however, he not so concerned with the events of the day, but rather with the events that led up to the day. I couldn't agree more.

It actually doesn't matter much to me whether the WTC collapse was a CD. It was at least an uncontrolled demolition, and at most a controlled one. What difference does it make? Those discussions merely focus our attention away from the real action.

What matters is that there was a long-laid plan to establish totalitarian control over the only remaining superpower. The plan mostly failed. Which is why the attempts have kept coming.

And Hugh, I am quite surprised that with your keen awareness of misdirection, you keep your eye firmly on the hand that waves the wand, while the other hand flips the cards.
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Re: HMW lego figure

Postby isachar » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:02 pm

Jeff wrote:Isachar, you and your band of New Truthers have replaced the actual events, crimes and context of 9/11 with your own fairy tales of Holy Collapse Hypotheses. Good luck with that justice thing.


"New Truther's" my ass you lame poseur.

It was the same old hoax operating across financial, military defense, and civilian air control systems, along with the old fake bogey man, into which was sprinkled additional trauma to maximize its effect. Sure seems to have worked on you and your amen chorus consisting of those paragons of the scientific method, Sir Isaac Nomo and his sidekick Orzo.

It's all of a piece.

The fairy tale failed on day one. You just happen to believe in Snow White and the Seven Dwarves = wherin the 'actual criminals' imagination was much more limited than it actually was.

I also take note that you do not try to defend the official fairy tale such as is the bogus NIST report with its absolutely descredited backwards, assume your own results method. This is the smoking gun of the falsity of the official fairy tale.
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Re: HMW lego figure

Postby brainpanhandler » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:06 pm

Jeff wrote:
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Jeff's efforts to save the credibility of this source are unexplainable.


I don't care about the source. It's your credibility that's the issue here for me.


Jeff,

I'm assuming that you have considered that Hugh is actually a little unhinged. He's sort of the counterpart to Drew Hempel in the comments.

Speaking of the blog, shouldn't you be finishing a post or tying up the loose ends of a book? :P
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Postby orz » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:52 pm

Orzo.

Meaningless, you can't make a 'pun' if you could even call it that out of my username, it's not a word.
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:55 pm

Now, I don't know for sure what did cause the towers to collapse - though I've developed some ideas of which I'm reasonably confident - but I know absolutely the official fairy tale is one steaming pile of rigorously righteous horsecrap. But it isn't necessary for us to know for sure, now is it? That isn't the threshhold. The relevant threshhold is that the official story relies on a demonstrably false methodology that rises to the level of a hoax and fraud.


They surely fudged their reports somehow, but that doesn't absolutely, necessarily mean that the towers collapsed from anything other than the massive damage and fires caused by the planes hitting them. Go ahead and try out that "reasonable confidence" thing in the 9/11 Truth movement, where you'll be labelled a fucking narc for not adherring religiously to "The Laws of Pyhsics!!!1!!!". You fucking people suck, and you're either 1) unintentionally or 2) intentionally fucking up the little momentum there is left to question 9/11 with your shrill hairbrained dogma. Go fuck yourselves.
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Re: HMW credibility

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:55 pm

Jeff wrote:
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Jeff's efforts to save the credibility of this source are unexplainable.


I don't care about the source. It's your credibility that's the issue here for me.


I do care about both the source and their message.
My credibility is affirmed in this thread.

You might've noticed that I was right about the source's "anti-conspiricism" being of the Chip Berlet school of gate keeping and they link to disinfo sites and promote books by Ghouliani and CIA shill Lawrence Wright.

Wright is wrong.
But I'm right in this thread. That "cultwatch" crap is all about discrediting the most damning physical evidence while tying it to the 'hologram woo-sters' and not about 9/11 truth.

No, I don't like having to point that out yet again. But I will if I have to. So here.

Posted: 18 Mar 2008 09:54
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:.....
This is a dead give-away that spooks are behind this 'cultwatch' site-

Encouraging activists opposed to conspiracism to understand they are not alone,


This is the line that CIA shill, Chip Berlet, uses, too.
.....


Posted: 18 Mar 2008 13:49
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:The "cultwatch" source... links to this likeminded source which urges us towards all the official government disinfoteers like NIST and deniers INCLUDING... (brief indulgent I toldyaso dance)...
Chip Berlet.

http://non-conspiracist9-11.blogspot.com/

the 9/11 non-conspiracist GAZETTEER

Sunday, January 27, 2008
unmasked Richard Gage, AIA wants your money!
.....
Wednesday, January 16, 2008
The death rattle of the 9/11 “Truth” movement
.....
There’s also a great History Channel video: 9/11 Conspiracies, Fact or Fiction to be found on The History Channel Store. Hey, if i can watch Loose Change, you can watch 9/11 Conspiracies, Fact or Fiction. And if you really want to be brave check out actual debunking sites, such as the Journal of Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories. Better still. read Alexander Cockburn, Matthew Rothschild, Matt Taibbi, and the articles on PublicEye.org - especially Chip Berlet’s review of Griffin’s New Pearl Harbor, and Griffin’s intellectually weak response.
.....
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
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Postby Brentos » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:59 pm

DrVolin wrote:
isachar wrote:Hugh, Jeff IS anti-conspiricist when it comes to this subject. That's the whole point.


It actually doesn't matter much to me whether the WTC collapse was a CD. It was at least an uncontrolled demolition, and at most a controlled one. What difference does it make? Those discussions merely focus our attention away from the real action.


I'm sorry, but thats complete bullshit. The evidence is incredibly firm that potential energy due to structural failure and jet fuel did not bring down the towers in the manner observed. The ever increasing evidence corroborates common sense also, something which seems to be disappearing even on forums like these.

It's hard to refute a thoroughly peer reviewed paper on the analysis of the dust of the WTCs, by professional and academic scientists that are not part of the 'truth' movement. Several other labs confirmed the findings in this paper. The 'truth' movement which evidently David Shayler heads (thats news to me since its pretty obvious he is generally despised.)

http://www.journalof911studies.com/arti ... hTemp2.pdf

Abstract
In an effort to better understand the conditions that led to complete collapses of the World Trade Center
Towers and WTC 7, we apply scanning-electron-microscope (SEM) and energy dispersive x-ray
spectroscopy (XEDS) methods to analyze the dust generated, with an emphasis on observed micro-spheres
in the WTC dust. The formation of molten spheres with high iron contents along with other species in the
WTC dust required extremely high temperatures. Our results are compared with those of other laboratories.
The temperatures required for the molten sphere-formation and evaporation of materials as observed in the
WTC dust are significantly higher than temperatures associated with the burning of jet fuel and office
materials in the WTC buildings.


But of course, you can simply cast this aside, by suggesting that the head researcher is afflicted by 'mormonism' (is that anti-semitic?), or that he researched 'cold fusion', despite the fact that it is not the Pons & Fleishman Cold Fusion, but muon based Cold Fusion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon-catalyzed_fusion


Its virtually common sense, that the potential energy alone, due to supposed structural failure (since it is much much much greater than that provided by jet fuel) would need to create both molten iron & aluminium globules, rapid collapse, dustification of concrete & other materials into hot pyroclastic flows, molten metal, red hot steel 6 weeks after, massive i-beams been thrown like projectiles laterally etc...


That dog just don't hunt. If you think its cult-like to think that, you may want to check what cult you are in, or maybe pick up some physics lessons. Thinking for yourself helps, but I presume, most posters here already have that talent?

This evidence corroborates respectable eye witness accounts. The planting of clues on the day, the actions of the terrists & false identities points to the likelyhood that there were patsies on that day, that probably took part in something which was guaranteed to happen in some way.

On a side note:

Recreation of David Caron's Stephensville 'Symbols' video, using the star Sirius:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT2-aFiKWhA&e

At least this was more imaginative than using out of focus cigarette butts :P
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Right into the net...

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:12 pm

FourthBase wrote:.....
They surely fudged their reports somehow, but that doesn't absolutely, necessarily mean that the towers collapsed from anything other than the massive damage and fires caused by the planes hitting them. Go ahead and try out that "reasonable confidence" thing in the 9/11 Truth movement, where you'll be labelled a fucking narc for not adherring religiously to "The Laws of Pyhsics!!!1!!!".


Of course shitting on people who haven't yet grasped the physics anchor is counterproductive.

But that doesn't mean that the physics anchor isn't TRUE. And it is true. Controlled demolition is proven and won't go away.

One of the few cointelpro devices left on this topic (and people naturally do this, not just spooks) is to paint people who already know the proof...and are certain and adamant about the laws of physics just as they are that the world is round...as "cultish" assholes to repel others who might look in the door and see "OMG, it's true."

Certainty about anything has been discredited as if only religious zealots are certain of anything.

You fucking people suck, and you're either 1) unintentionally or 2) intentionally fucking up the little momentum there is left to question 9/11 with your shrill hairbrained dogma. Go fuck yourselves.


Congratulations, you've been faked out on the field. You've been tricked into not looking at the physical evidence message and instead looking at the kerfuffle created around the messengers.

Please, spend some time going through the scientific powerpoint presentations and stuff at
http://www.ae911truth.org/

Winging it ain't the way to figuring shit out. Or wrangling in schoolyard popularity contests as if the truth of a crime was reached by consensus.

Anyone can look for themselves.
But few actually do it.
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