Barrie Zwicker on Chomsky and 9/11

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Barrie Zwicker on Chomsky and 9/11

Postby Montag » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:32 am

wordspeak2 wrote:This is my favorite Chomsky line:

“Even if it’s true” that 9/11 was an inside job, “…who cares? I mean, it doesn’t have any significance. I mean it’s a little bit like the huge amount of energy that’s put out on trying to figure out who killed John F. Kennedy. I mean, who knows, and who cares…plenty of people get killed all the time. Why does it matter that one of them happens to be John F. Kennedy?”


I think he means by those comments, what was the need for either event? The U.S. government can do what it wants regardless. Maybe he doesn't care about the death of one well-heeled man, but on 9/11 we are talking about a mass slaughter...

p.s. I know on Kennedy he has said, he was not ending the Cold War and getting out of Vietnam. He viewed Kennedy as not really deviating from the essentially one party American system.
User avatar
Montag
 
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:32 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Barrie Zwicker on Chomsky and 9/11

Postby wordspeak2 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:22 am

"I know on Kennedy he has said, he was not ending the Cold War and getting out of Vietnam. He viewed Kennedy as not really deviating from the essentially one party American system."

Right, but if you read, "JFK and the Unspeakable: How he Died and Why it Matters," you see that that couldn't be further from the truth. Kennedy was changing fast. Watch the American University speech that MinM posted. He was talking about ending the Cold War. He was talking about pulling out of Vietnam. He was engaged in a secret peaceful letter exchange with Kruschev. He wanted to make peace with the socialist world. He fought the Pentagon and CIA hawks over the Bay of Pigs. That's why he was killed by those hawks, they who represent the "military-industrial complex," they who are really in charge. There's *no way* that Noam Chomsky doesn't know this. He is not stupid.

It's a laughably disingenuous argument to say, "Who cares who killed JFK- JFK was only one man; people get killed all the time." Obviously, understanding who killed the president reveals that there is a unified force *above* the presidency that has vast control over the media and can get away with such a thing. That's the "forbidden truth" that must be concealed- the existence of the conspirators. It matters not whether they kill one president or four thousand Americans; the point is that exposing it pulls the curtain out and exposes the "unspeakable."

Chomsky's role is to ensure that liberals and progressive intellectual types, who are on the edge of recognizing the existence of the fascist "secret government" do not go all the way to seeing it. To do this he utilizes the tactic of "limited hangout," presenting a lot of truth about U.S. foreign and domestic policy while covering up the most important truths that expose the extent of the fascism. He also doesn't talk about CIA involvement in the drug trade... JFK, 9/11, CIA/drugs, etc.- these are the stories that show clearly that are government s run by Nazis *who have no allegiance to American people over any others.* These Nazis are pure globalists who have entrenched power way above the presidency. It is not simply an "institutional" problem, and that line is, again, patently disingenuous. Again, Chomsky is not stupid. Saying that it's all completely systemic covers for the actual people who are in perpetual power. Chomsky knows just what he's doing. He's serving the fine folks who funded his linguistics career.

And have you noticed how he talks like a computer? Like there's no, you know, emotion there? Is it not kind of bizarre? While most other leftists seem to have passion and humanization... Chomsky comes off as a language robot. Which, I assert, is just what he is. But almost no progressives will challenge him, because he's "highly distinguished"' and says that corporations are bad.
wordspeak2
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Barrie Zwicker on Chomsky and 9/11

Postby norton ash » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:56 am

So 'who cares' about 9/11 or JFK... that the powerful have manufactured our consent to a coup or a false-flag operation?

Does not compute.
Zen horse
User avatar
norton ash
 
Posts: 4067
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Canada
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Barrie Zwicker on Chomsky and 9/11

Postby Montag » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:31 pm

wordspeak2 wrote:
And have you noticed how he talks like a computer? Like there's no, you know, emotion there? Is it not kind of bizarre? While most other leftists seem to have passion and humanization... Chomsky comes off as a language robot. Which, I assert, is just what he is. But almost no progressives will challenge him, because he's "highly distinguished"' and says that corporations are bad.


I don't really agree with this... You do see passion with some on the intellectual left, but Chomsky is typical of the intellectual left IMO. I'm re-reading the Shock Doctrine right now, and (in the book) Naomi Klein declares herself part of the Seattle movement in 1999 (I haven't seen much passion from her btw)... As I was reading that I was wondering what civil disobedience she was involved in that day? I suppose one doesn't have to do that sort of thing (I think my days of that are probably behind me). I wonder if she was even marching in the streets though? If so, I stand corrected, but a lot of these people haven't been "in the trenches" in years. Analysis and theorizing is what they do. If they have any passion it is for being analytical, they're passion to help the lot of people, died a long time ago.
User avatar
Montag
 
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:32 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Barrie Zwicker on Chomsky and 9/11

Postby wordspeak2 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:48 pm

OK, so a lot of the intellectual Left is less evidently passionate than one would hope. Seems like Chomsky is the extreme of it, though, to me, at least.
wordspeak2
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Barrie Zwicker on Chomsky and 9/11

Postby Nordic » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:08 pm

Remember- the most important and effective propaganda isn't the overt lies. It's the control of the potential opposition.


Image

Image

Image

Image

Yup.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: Barrie Zwicker on Chomsky and 9/11

Postby MinM » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:39 pm


wordspeak2 wrote:Right, but if you read, "JFK and the Unspeakable: How he Died and Why it Matters," you see that that couldn't be further from the truth. Kennedy was changing fast. Watch the American University speech that MinM posted. He was talking about ending the Cold War. He was talking about pulling out of Vietnam. He was engaged in a secret peaceful letter exchange with Kruschev. He wanted to make peace with the socialist world. He fought the Pentagon and CIA hawks over the Bay of Pigs. That's why he was killed by those hawks, they who represent the "military-industrial complex," they who are really in charge. There's *no way* that Noam Chomsky doesn't know this. He is not stupid.

It's a laughably disingenuous argument to say, "Who cares who killed JFK- JFK was only one man; people get killed all the time." Obviously, understanding who killed the president reveals that there is a unified force *above* the presidency that has vast control over the media and can get away with such a thing. That's the "forbidden truth" that must be concealed- the existence of the conspirators. It matters not whether they kill one president or four thousand Americans; the point is that exposing it pulls the curtain out and exposes the "unspeakable."

Chomsky's role is to ensure that liberals and progressive intellectual types, who are on the edge of recognizing the existence of the fascist "secret government" do not go all the way to seeing it. To do this he utilizes the tactic of "limited hangout," presenting a lot of truth about U.S. foreign and domestic policy while covering up the most important truths that expose the extent of the fascism. He also doesn't talk about CIA involvement in the drug trade... JFK, 9/11, CIA/drugs, etc.- these are the stories that show clearly that are government s run by Nazis *who have no allegiance to American people over any others.* These Nazis are pure globalists who have entrenched power way above the presidency. It is not simply an "institutional" problem, and that line is, again, patently disingenuous. Again, Chomsky is not stupid. Saying that it's all completely systemic covers for the actual people who are in perpetual power. Chomsky knows just what he's doing. He's serving the fine folks who funded his linguistics career.

And have you noticed how he talks like a computer? Like there's no, you know, emotion there? Is it not kind of bizarre? While most other leftists seem to have passion and humanization... Chomsky comes off as a language robot. Which, I assert, is just what he is. But almost no progressives will challenge him, because he's "highly distinguished"' and says that corporations are bad.

That is an amazing speech JFK gave at American University. You can hear Jim DiEugenio talk about it, or read James Douglass, but until you watch that speech it's difficult to imagine an American President even thinking in those terms.
Earth-704509
User avatar
MinM
 
Posts: 3288
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:16 pm
Location: Mont Saint-Michel
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Barrie Zwicker on Chomsky and 9/11

Postby Sounder » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:11 pm

Thanks MinM.

It's good to be reminded that politicians can be broadminded thinking people, -it may be rare but it can happen.
Sounder
 
Posts: 4054
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Moved here to protect another thread.

Postby MinM » Fri May 20, 2011 12:10 am

While I. F. Stone. Seymour Hersh, David Halberstam, and Chomsky were very good on the whole. They each were willing to buy whatever tPTB were selling, and in some cases eager to help them sell it, when it came to covering Kennedy...

http://www.blackopradio.com/archives2011.html
Show #527
Original airdate: May 19 2011
Guest: Mark Lane
Topics: Debate Dec 4 1964

Play Part One - Mark Lane

# Great Debate at Beverly Hills High Dec 4 1964
# Billed as "The Warren Report: The Whole Truth?"
# Mark Lane recalls details of the debate and its importance

Play Part Two - Debate 1

# Mark Lane vs. Joseph Ball, Herman Selvin and A. L. Wirin
# 45 minute introduction by Mark Lane

Play Part Three - Debate 2

# Comments from Warren Commison supports draws heckels and boo's
# Joseph Ball just a country lawyer from Long Beach CA..
# They try to convince the audience they know Lee Oswald ordered the rifle from Klein's Sporting Goods.
# Klein never called to give testimony to the Warren Commision
# Joseph Ball embaressed by his lack of knowledge of the facts
# Mark exposes Joseph Ball as a liar
# Ball says only one gun found on the sixth floor

Play Part Four - Debate 3

# Wirin suggests we should have faith in authority...
# I. F Stone says it true... then it must be true... ?
# Lane destorys the retoric of the three Warren Commision support
# Conclusion and comments from the audience
# Private interview with Mark Lane

http://www.blackopradio.com/pod/black527d.mp3
...

David Halberstam and The Second Biggest Lie Ever Told:
A Look Back at The Best and the Brightest
Part 1: Halberstam and Kennedy
Part 2: Halberstam and Johnson

http://www.ctka.net/
Earth-704509
User avatar
MinM
 
Posts: 3288
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:16 pm
Location: Mont Saint-Michel
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Moved here to protect another thread.

Postby MinM » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:28 pm

American Dream wrote:Noam Chomsky: The Real Reasons the U.S. Enables Israeli Crimes and Atrocities
...
Cuba's probably the target of more terrorism than any country in the world, back from the Kennedy years. Right? ...

wordspeak2 wrote:And have I ever, in my entire life, read a Noam Chomsky article that didn't get in a jab against John F. Kennedy as being a standard establishment hawk? I think the answer is no. How come Chomsky finds the needs to tarnish JFK's reputation even when the topic is something completely different?

Chomsky on JFK and Cuba
Started by Richard Coleman, Oct 16 2012 11:13 PM

A new Chomsky article on this subject is posted at Common Dreams: The Week The World Stood Still.

A small excerpt:

From the same source *, we learn further that, on August 23, 1962, the president had issued National Security Memorandum No. 181, “a directive to engineer an internal revolt that would be followed by U.S. military intervention,” involving “significant U.S. military plans, maneuvers, and movement of forces and equipment” that were surely known to Cuba and Russia. Also in August, terrorist attacks were intensified, including speedboat strafing attacks on a Cuban seaside hotel “where Soviet military technicians were known to congregate, killing a score of Russians and Cubans”; attacks on British and Cuban cargo ships; the contamination of sugar shipments; and other atrocities and sabotage, mostly carried out by Cuban exile organizations permitted to operate freely in Florida. Shortly after came “the most dangerous moment in human history,” not exactly out of the blue.

Kennedy officially renewed the terrorist operations after the crisis ebbed. Ten days before his assassination he approved a CIA plan for “destruction operations” by U.S. proxy forces “against a large oil refinery and storage facilities, a large electric plant, sugar refineries, railroad bridges, harbor facilities, and underwater demolition of docks and ships.” A plot to assassinate Castro was apparently initiated on the day of the Kennedy assassination. The terrorist campaign was called off in 1965, but reports Garthoff, “one of Nixon’s first acts in office in 1969 was to direct the CIA to intensify covert operations against Cuba.”

*Reflections on the Cuban Missile Crisis: Revised to Include New Revelations from Soviet & Cuban Souces by Raymond L. Garthoff

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index ... opic=19609

Jim DiEugenio wrote:This guy is over the edge.

As per the plot at the time of the JFK assassination, this is the Cubela plot which was sanctioned by FItzgerald and Helms, not JFK.

Kennedy never renewed Mongoose, it was stopped in late November and you can see this in FRUS.

A very scaled down version of it was in use for a few months. But after the back channel heated up, even this all but disappeared.

I mean, how can you run a secret war with fifty guys?

It reminds me of the Peter Sellers movie, The Mouse that Roared...

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index ... ntry261656
User avatar
MinM
 
Posts: 3288
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:16 pm
Location: Mont Saint-Michel
Blog: View Blog (0)

Previous

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests