Arctic Updates

[Nordic]

So? FYI the headline was "Summer has been one of Alaska's coldest" and the last time I checked, the northern part of Alaska is within the Arctic Circle.

Melting ice sucks up a lot of heat. All that melting ice is gonna have a big affect insofar as keeping temperatures from going up very much.

Nice try, though.

[Ben D]

So? FYI the headline was "Summer has been one of Alaska's coldest" and the last time I checked, the northern part of Alaska is within the Arctic Circle.

Melting ice sucks up a lot of heat. All that melting ice is gonna have a big affect insofar as keeping temperatures from going up very much.

Nice try, though.

According to your theory, since the 2007 ice melt was a near record, then the Alaskan 2007 Summer should also have been cooler than the average, Yes?

Let's confirm that 2007 ice melt,...2007: New Record for the Arctic Ice Melting..

and confirm the 2007 Alaskan summer conditions,..The summer of 2007 (June, July, and August) was marked with warmer than normal temperatures across much of Alaska.

Nice try, though.

[Cosmic Cowbell]

Quoting Anthony Watts:

"What I like about the IARC-JAXA website is that they simply report the data, they don’t try to interpret it, editorialize it, or make press releases on it. They just present the data."

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/15/a ... -still-cli

"I’m a former television meteorologist who spent 25 years on the air and who also operates a weather technology and content business, as well as continues daily forecasting on radio, just for fun." ~Anthony Watts

I always appreciate being set straight on Arctic Climate science, especially by TV weathermen. Not sure what gives him the expertise to "interpret it, editorialize it" (the data) but I guess this just demonstrates the powers of the interwebs.

Doesn't get any better than that....

[Nordic]

So? FYI the headline was "Summer has been one of Alaska's coldest" and the last time I checked, the northern part of Alaska is within the Arctic Circle.

Melting ice sucks up a lot of heat. All that melting ice is gonna have a big affect insofar as keeping temperatures from going up very much.

Nice try, though.

According to your theory, since the 2007 ice melt was a near record, then the Alaskan 2007 Summer should also have been cooler than the average, Yes?

Let's confirm that 2007 ice melt,...2007: New Record for the Arctic Ice Melting..

and confirm the 2007 Alaskan summer conditions,..The summer of 2007 (June, July, and August) was marked with warmer than normal temperatures across much of Alaska.

Nice try, though.

You're the one presenting theories, not me. I'm just blowing a hole through one of yours.

Nice cognitive dissonance.

[Ben D]

So? FYI the headline was "Summer has been one of Alaska's coldest" and the last time I checked, the northern part of Alaska is within the Arctic Circle.

Melting ice sucks up a lot of heat. All that melting ice is gonna have a big affect insofar as keeping temperatures from going up very much.

Nice try, though.

According to your theory, since the 2007 ice melt was a near record, then the Alaskan 2007 Summer should also have been cooler than the average, Yes?

Let's confirm that 2007 ice melt,...2007: New Record for the Arctic Ice Melting..

and confirm the 2007 Alaskan summer conditions,..The summer of 2007 (June, July, and August) was marked with warmer than normal temperatures across much of Alaska.

Nice try, though.

You're the one presenting theories, not me. I'm just blowing a hole through one of yours.

Nice cognitive dissonance.

Honestly Nordic, I'm really not quite sure what you are on about, could you please point out which theory it is that I've presented that you are blowing a hole in?

[wintler2]

According to your theory, since the 2007 ice melt was a near record, then the Alaskan 2007 Summer should also have been cooler than the average, Yes?

Sorry to break your train of incomprehension, but No, Alaskan air temps are not the same thing as air+sea temps across the arctic.

Water carries a whole lot more heat than air as it is much more dense, and sea water carries huge gobs of heat from the equator to the poles. Warmer Alaskan air temps are about as significant to arctic sea ice as a shortage of pastrami in Mexico is to North American omnivores.

[Ben D]

According to your theory, since the 2007 ice melt was a near record, then the Alaskan 2007 Summer should also have been cooler than the average, Yes?

Sorry to break your train of incomprehension, but No, Alaskan air temps are not the same thing as air+sea temps across the arctic.

So it seems to me you are saying that the air temperature within the arctic circle over Alaska bears no relationship to the air temperatures experienced within the air over the rest of the arctic circle?

So what is your opinion on the validity of Nordic's assertion in relation to why the Alaskan 2008 summer temperature were colder than average, that,.."Melting ice sucks up a lot of heat. All that melting ice is gonna have a big affect insofar as keeping temperatures from going up very much."?

[Nordic]

Well, Ben D, you're the one who seems to be the one who denies global warming.

You're the one who asserted that if global ice was melting and global warming was happening, that temperatures (air) in Alaska should be higher, not lower.

I blew a hole through that theory, and now you're acting all confused and continuing to needle people.

[Ben D]

Well, Ben D, you're the one who seems to be the one who denies global warming.

Please show me where I have denied global warming?

My actual position is that it is too soon to know absolutely as IMHO contemporary science doesn't yet have full knowledge or understanding of the solar and planetary science involved.

You're the one who asserted that if global ice was melting and global warming was happening, that temperatures (air) in Alaska should be higher, not lower.

I blew a hole through that theory, and now you're acting all confused and continuing to needle people.

Again, please show me where I have made that assertion or proposed such a theory?

[Brentos]

Evidence of sunspot involvement in climate change compelling

[Cosmic Cowbell]

Fears mount as Arctic melt prompts historic methane rise

* Adam Morton
* November 3, 2008

ATMOSPHERIC concentrations of methane, "a greenhouse gas more than 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide", have risen for the first time in eight years, prompting concern about the pace of climate change. A global study in Geophysical Research Letters found the first increase in methane levels this century — by about 28 million tonnes since mid-2006 — was in part due to release of gas in and near the Arctic.

CSIRO senior climate scientist Paul Fraser said the data was in line with predictions that rapid melting of Arctic ice would create natural wetlands, one of the most common methane emitters. "This is not good news for global warming," he said. Over the past decade, methane emitted from wetlands, rice fields, cattle, bushfires and coalmines had been largely offset by absorption of the gas by dry soil and through atmospheric oxidation, Dr Fraser said.

"Over the past year, the total sources have overwhelmed the total sinks and methane has started to rise," he said.

Methane is estimated to be responsible for about 20% of global warming since the Industrial Revolution. The published study comes after British newspaper The Independent reported that scientists aboard a Russian research ship had found millions of tonnes of subsea methane was bubbling to the surface and being released into the atmosphere off the Siberian coast this northern summer.

Research published in Nature Geoscience last week found the first evidence that the rise in Antarctic temperatures in recent decades was caused by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gas. The research, led by British scientist Nathan Gillett, compared temperature rises at the Arctic and Antarctic since 1900 with four computer simulations. Only models that factored in man-made emissions were able to reproduce the changes observed in the real world. This is a step on from last year's UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report, which identified evidence of man-made climate change on every continent except Antarctica.

link

[Ben D]

Wonder how many of these methane plume emissions being discovered have been continuous for 15,000 years?

Hundreds of methane 'plumes' discovered.

British scientists find more evidence of climate threat
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Thursday, 25 September 2008

Independent.co.uk

British scientists have discovered hundreds more methane "plumes" bubbling up from the Arctic seabed, in an area to the west of the Norwegian island of Svalbard. It is the second time in a week that scientists have reported methane emissions from the Arctic.

Methane is 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide as a greenhouse gas and the latest findings from two separate teams of scientists suggest it is being released in significant amounts from within the Arctic Circle.

--snip---

It is likely that methane emissions off Svalbard have been continuous for about 15,000 years – since the last ice age – but as yet no one knows whether recent climactic shifts in the Arctic have begun to accelerate them to a point where they could in themselves exacerbate climate change, he said.

"We were very excited when we found these plumes because it was the first evidence there was an active gas system in this part of the world," Professor Westbrook said after disembarking from the ship, which arrived back in Britain yesterday. "Now we know it's there we know we have to very seriously consider its effect."

The Independent

[wintler2]

According to your theory, since the 2007 ice melt was a near record, then the Alaskan 2007 Summer should also have been cooler than the average, Yes?

Sorry to break your train of incomprehension, but No, Alaskan air temps are not the same thing as air+sea temps across the arctic.

So it seems to me you are saying that the air temperature within the arctic circle over Alaska bears no relationship to the air temperatures experienced within the air over the rest of the arctic circle?

No, thats not what i am saying. Do you see the word 'sea'? And my insta-summary of greater significance of water temp (not quoted)? Did you bother to do any research on arctic sea temps? Excuse my rhetorical question, you obviously didn't. Allow me to do it for you, for the n'th time:

..During an oceanographic expedition aboard the Russian icebreaker Kapitan Dranitsyn this fall [2006], researchers found unprecedented warmth in some parts of the Arctic Ocean. .. http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0926-oceans.html

..Portions of the sea surface in the Arctic Ocean just north of the Chukchi Sea beyond Alaska warmed about 9 ° F more than historical averages — rising from a “normal” average summer temperature of about 30.2 ° F to more than 39 °F. .. http://www.farnorthscience.com/2007/12/ ... -heats-up/

Its okay really, it took me all of 2 minutes, question is why you never do it yourself before copynpasting timewasting disinfo. Is 'Rigorous Intuition' really the place for you?

So what is your opinion on the validity of Nordic's assertion ..

I don't have one, what with your jumping from alaskan air to the history of methane plumes, i can hardly keep up with your .. contributions.

Wonder how many of these methane plume emissions being discovered have been continuous for 15,000 years?

But at what **water temperature dependant** rate, you fool.

[wintler2]

Wonder how many of these methane plume emissions being discovered have been continuous for 15,000 years?

But at what **water temperature dependant** rate, you fool.

[Ben D]

winkler2 said...

Ben D wrote:
So what is your opinion on the validity of Nordic's assertion ..

winkler2 said
I don't have one, what with your jumping from alaskan air to the history of methane plumes, i can hardly keep up with your
..contributions.

Dear winkler2, there is no urgency so please try to settle down.
Now if you are patient, all questions you have will be attended to but it requires a degree of coherency if this exchange is to yield results.

Now you state that you don't have an opinion on the validity of Nordic's assertion in relation to why the Alaskan 2008 summer temperature were colder than average, that,.."Melting ice sucks up a lot of heat. All that melting ice is gonna have a big affect insofar as keeping temperatures from going up very much."

So is this an admission that you do not know?

Let's keep things simple to begin with, every thing you want addressed will be addressed if you are able to maintain a stable and methodical exchange!