An idea about Palestine/Israel

[kenoma]

Fourthbase, your analogy is useless. But for what it's worth:

123 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,050 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html

[barracuda]

First of all, what Hugh said. The whole situation exists so the US government and a few other players can spend billions of dollars on munitions and related security apparatus exspenses, keeping the wheels greased. Everyone who could change the situation seems to like it that way, cause they all make boo coo money.

Oh what, it's uncouth to consider climate as a factor?

Yeah, something like that.

I think it's a great idea. Give each Palestinian ten million US dollars, which is about what I would require to be ethnically cleansed out of California, and, let's see, say, about four million Palestinians times ten million dollars is... 400,000,000,000,000. Four hundred trillion, - yes, fine idea.

Give me a fucking break.

How about $100,000 per Palestinian. Get both sides to chill for a few years, maybe triple it. $300,000 per Palestinian.

Don't be so scotch with the roll. A hundred grand won't buy you a studio condo where I live. It won't even buy you a third of one. Now I see why you want to move them to Mexico, where, by the way, a civil war is effectively in progress. Would you leave your home forever for $300,000? Where do you live anyway, FourthBase?

I'm fucking disgusted that you would call my idea ethnic cleansing. It's not. Call it whatever the fuck you want, I guess. I don't care what you call it, ultimately.

Look at my response again. I didn't really call your idea anything. But it is a little weird. I can't figure out why you chose to move the Palestinians rather than the Israelis in your fantasy plan in the first place. Can you please tell me that?

[kenoma]

Don't be so scotch with the roll. A hundred grand won't buy you a studio condo where I live. It won't even buy you a third of one. Now I see why you want to move them to Mexico, where, by the way, a civil war is effectively in progress. Would you leave your home forever for $300,000? Where do you live anyway, FourthBase?

In Antarctica, it's a buyer's market.

[FourthBase]

First of all, what Hugh said. The whole situation exists so the US government and a few other players can spent billions of dollars on munitions and related security apparatus exspenses, keeping the wheels greased. Everyone who could change the situation seems to like it that way, cause they all make boo coo money.

Yeah, I'm aware of all that.

Like I said, this idea exists for now in an evil-free vacuum.

Oh what, it's uncouth to consider climate as a factor?

Yeah, something like that.

So it's uncouth to ponder whether people would prefer a more familiar climate.

Weird, but fine. If it's uncouth, so be it.

I think it's a great idea. Give each Palestinian ten million US dollars, which is about what I would require to be ethnically cleansed out of California, and, let's see, say, about four million Palestinians times ten million dollars is... 400,000,000,000,000. Four hundred trillion, - yes, fine idea.

Give me a fucking break.

How about $100,000 per Palestinian. Get both sides to chill for a few years, maybe triple it. $300,000 per Palestinian.

Don't be so scotch with the roll. A hundred grand won't buy you a studio condo where I live. It won't even buy you a third of one. Now I see why you want to move them to Mexico, where, by the way, a civil war is effectively in progress.

Pick a fucking spot where 100K will be a fortune, then.

And there'd be some kind of civil issue practically anywhere.

I'm fucking disgusted that you would call my idea ethnic cleansing. It's not. Call it whatever the fuck you want, I guess. I don't care what you call it, ultimately.

Look at my response again. I didn't really call your idea anything. But it is a little weird. I can't figure out why you chose to move the Palestinians rather than the Israelis in your fantasy plan in the first place. Can you please tell me that?

...?

Give each Palestinian ten million US dollars, which is about what I would require to be ethnically cleansed out of California

If that's not at least an implied criticism of the idea as ethnic cleansing...

Then I'm sorry.

Why not propose the Israelis move? Because as speculative as the idea is, I have absolutely zero expectations that the Israelis would listen to the idea flipped around. I think maybe you should read all my posts in the thread again, you'll find I'd already told you, in depth. Can you honestly not tell what side I at least lean toward? No, you can.

And I'll concede the idea is more than just a little weird, it's fucking bizarre. Seemingly unprecedented. Bizarre or not, original or not, I just want to figure out if it'd work, and again in an evil-free vacuum for now.

[FourthBase]

In Antarctica, it's a buyer's market.

Tip: To perform a reductio ad absurdum, you need to actually follow the logic.

[FourthBase]

Fourthbase, your analogy is useless. But for what it's worth:

123 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,050 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html

Thanks, here's a link to help you:

http://www.nifl.gov/

Learn to read. I'm well aware of what's going on there. And if only I had a time machine, maybe I could post the stats for when everyone there is killed in a mutually-achieved holocaust. Actually, you don't need a time machine, just invent a future date and add up the total population for both sides. What's it worth?

[FourthBase]

Would you leave your home forever for $300,000? Where do you live anyway, FourthBase?

If I were a Palestinian, I would sure as fuck consider it. Especially if there were other incentives in place, infrastructure created in advance in the place I was headed, which again would be a newly established sovereign nation for my people.

I live in the Boston area. Were you going to say something about SF and prices?

[kenoma]

Would you leave your home forever for $300,000? Where do you live anyway, FourthBase?

If I were a Palestinian, I would sure as fuck consider it.

But as an American, would you still consider it? What's your price for you to be shipped off from Boston to Uganda or Madagascar? And if it's higher than $300,000, why?

[kenoma]

And if only I had a time machine, maybe I could post the stats for when everyone there is killed in a mutually-achieved holocaust. Actually, you don't need a time machine, just invent a future date and add up the total population for both sides. What's it worth?

The Palestinians have the bomb? How did I miss that?

[FourthBase]

Would you leave your home forever for $300,000? Where do you live anyway, FourthBase?

If I were a Palestinian, I would sure as fuck consider it.

But as an American, would you still consider it?

[understatement]Probably not. Then again, I don't feel persecuted.[/understatement]

What's your price for you to be shipped off from Boston to Uganda or Madagascar? And if it's higher than $300,000, why?

I would probably take...let's see...

No, dude. I'm not answering that question.

Refer to understatement above.

What you should keep in mind is that, in this idea, a Palestinian leaving home wouldn't be leaving their family or friends or theoretically any other Palestinian behind. Just their homeland, which is ultimately just...land. Also, there would be far more than just money motivating them. There'd also be the escape from oppression, occupation, persecution. The welcoming arms of a sovereign nation for themselves, albeit in a strange land. The money is hardly the biggest motive, in fact it's just a means, and all that would matter is, would it be enough considering the circumstances? Working with a 100K-300K number...I'd bet that would be more than plenty -- and more than plenty is the goal.

Realize also that I would do a lot of ridiculous shit for a ridiculously low sum of money right now. For example, I would do the Humpty Dance down Mass Ave for about $500. I would kiss a piece of dog shit for $25. Throw in a bottle of antibiotics and I'd lick it. There's almost nothing legally allowed I wouldn't do for the right price, except sell my soul or eat meat or radically transform my body, and probably a few other things if I thought about it.

[FourthBase]

The Palestinians have the bomb? How did I miss that?

(Why doesn't this board have a :bangheadagainstwall: emoticon?)

[barracuda]

I'm sure I've got $25 around here somewhere. Can you accept PayPal?

You'd lick dogshit for $25 but wouldn't really consider being shipped to Uganda for $300,000? That should tell you quite a bit about your plan. Again, I think ten mil is in the ballpark. Would you move to Uganda forever for ten mil?

You'd lick dogshit for $25 but don't feel persecuted? Let's talk about that.

[FourthBase]

I'm sure I've got $25 around here somewhere. Can you accept PayPal?

You'd lick dogshit for $25 but wouldn't really consider being shipped to Uganda for $300,000?

Note the edit I just made!

That should tell you quite a bit about your plan. Again, I think ten mil is in the ballpark. Would you move to Uganda forever for ten mil?

I'd be leaving my family, so probably not.

Again, read. Thanks.

You'd lick dogshit for $25 but don't feel persecuted? Let's talk about that.

See edit.

And no, compared to the truly persecuted, I don't feel persecuted.

[barracuda]

Again, read. Thanks.

Read? What, did I miss something? I think I've read every line of this insulting thread. I know your heart is in the right place, but I feel like you are trolling us now to get someone to throw out an accusation of racism so that you can just jump all over it. I give in. Your whole idea is insulting and racist. You think maybe Palestinians would take a hundred grand to do something you wouldn't do for ten million, and then act all confused when people don't get where your coming from. You want to maybe move them to Mexico, presumably because those dark-skinned arabs must like it hot, or why the hell would they live in the desert in the first place? Three hundred large doesn't really cut it in Cali, so let's find someplace else, presumably a fucking shithole, where $300,000 constitutes a fortune (as if there really exists such a place - what world do you live in?) Dude, the Palestinians are no different from you, except their homeland is on the fucking Mediterranian, and yours is, what near Boston Harbor? Or the jewel of the fucking Charles? And they're supposed to want to move but you wouldn't? Because you don't really feel persecuted, but you are willing to lick dog shit for the equivalent of four packs of smokes? Really man, I want the Israelis to stop the killing, but your idea is beyond kooky, its just insulting. I can imagine you spelling this one out to some Palestinian or Egyptian friends I have. Believe me, they would not be friendly to it. I don't know what else to say, except I expect you to be all huffy about my response. So get on with the huffiness, if you must. God I wish AlicetheKurious was here to tear you a new asshole. I'm just not on her level.

[FourthBase]

Again, read. Thanks.

Read? What, did I miss something?

For the love of christ:

What you should keep in mind is that, in this idea, a Palestinian leaving home wouldn't be leaving their family or friends or theoretically any other Palestinian behind. Just their homeland, which is ultimately just...land. Also, there would be far more than just money motivating them. There'd also be the escape from oppression, occupation, persecution. The welcoming arms of a sovereign nation for themselves, albeit in a strange land. The money is hardly the biggest motive, in fact it's just a means, and all that would matter is, would it be enough considering the circumstances? Working with a 100K-300K number...I'd bet that would be more than plenty -- and more than plenty is the goal.

You asked a question I'd already answered.

I think I've read every line of this insulting thread. I know your heart is in the right place, but I feel like you are trolling us now to get someone to throw out an accusation of racism so that you can just jump all over it.

Absolutely fucking not. In this thread, about this subject, unlike the infamous chlamor thread about race, I don't even slightly care if anyone calls me a racist, if they truly feel I am, even though I am so fucking NOT racist. All I care about here is whether the idea would work.

I give in. Your whole idea is insulting and racist. You think maybe Palestinians would take a hundred grand to do something you wouldn't do for ten million

Because the situations, as I described already, are completely fucking different.

, and then act all confused when people don't get where your coming from.

No, I get angry and disheartened when people ignore shit I've already explained.

You want to maybe move them to Mexico, presumably because those dark-skinned arabs must like it hot, or why the hell would they live in the desert in the first place?

Presumably? WTF? How the FUCKING FUCK did you presume that? What in the fucking HELL are you talking about? I'm not angry at the racist part, I'm angry at how fucking stupid you're being. PRESUME NOTHING OF THE FUCKING KIND, BECAUSE I MEANT NOTHING OF THE SORT. I proposed, and it isn't even remotely an important part of the idea just a tiny consideration, a warm climate because I am guessing people who have lived their lives in a warm climate would prefer to keep living in a warm climate, as opposed to a cold climate. It's that fucking simple.

Three hundred large doesn't really cut it in Cali, so let's find someplace else, presumably a fucking shithole, where $300,000 constitutes a fortune (as if there really exists such a place - what world do you live in?)

You and I are both from two of the most expensive areas in the entire fucking world. You can't possibly be serious using yours as if it were even remotely normal re: cost of living -- because the SF area has just about the most abnormal cost of living in the country. And who the fuck said anything about a shithole? Did growing up poor in a rich environment really fuck with my head so much that I'm wrong to think there are totally fucking decent places to live comfortably in the world using $300,000 as seed money? No. There are. And are there totally livable places where $300,000 would be a fortune? Not many maybe, I don't really know. But for instance, had the Jews established Israel in Uganda, I'm betting whatever western-based funds they had (especially if each had the equivalent of $300K) would have taken them pretty fucking far toward the good life there. And they would have had their own nation to build as they wished, with presumably far fewer repurcussions. No, definitely far fewer, because they would have had their own nation to transport refugees to before and during WWII.

Dude, the Palestinians are no different from you

They're also no different from the Jews, who seriously considered Uganda.

, except their homeland is on the fucking Mediterranian, and yours is, what near Boston Harbor? Or the jewel of the fucking Charles?

Er, no.

And they're supposed to want to move but you wouldn't?

Again, are they being persecuted? YES, right? Am I? NO.

Because you don't really feel persecuted, but you are willing to lick dog shit for the equivalent of four packs of smokes?

I am NOT persecuted. The only reason I would do ridiculous shit on the cheap is because I have an individual high threshhold for doing ridiculous shit, and an individual low threshhold for the price of doing it. It's not because I'm fucking persecuted by poverty or whatever the fuck you seemed to misread it as. I was trying to say my answer to the question wouldn't really be representative anyway, and so wouldn't be relevant.

Really man, I want the Israelis to stop the killing, but your idea is beyond kooky, its just insulting. I can imagine you spelling this one out to some Palestinian or Egyptian friends I have. Believe me, they would not be friendly to it.

If they heard me present the idea in person, I would hope they'd listen.

I don't know what else to say, except I expect you to be all huffy about my response. So get on with the huffiness, if you must. God I wish AlicetheKurious was here to tear you a new asshole. I'm just not on her level.

Huffy doesn't describe it. Your post nauseates me.

I wish Alice were here, too. And no, you're not on her level, not when it comes to this issue, and you shouldn't even try to be. She's the one person I most want input from right now, and if need be I would gladly spend weeks writing dozens of pages of posts trying to help her realize what I mean. I think it's that important, even if there were only a tiny chance it could ever work.