Is This What I Have To Look Forward To With My Daughter?

[annie aronburg]

cos personally, I think the people in that chain should be in pound-in-the-ass Federal prison sharing a cell with a 500lb hairy Aryan Nations member called Leroy.

It would seem to me far worse to be incarcerated with a fit and healthy member of the Aryan Nations.

What's wrong with being hairy? What's wrong with the name Leroy? One of my best pals weighed 500 lbs for a long time and she would have made lock-up into one big pajama party.

I know a lot of people who don't think of ass-pounding as a punishment.

I know a few people who've been in prison (state and federal) and they all said the sodomy was consensual.

I wouldn't wish a rape on anybody. Especially not someone who made an error in child-costuming or age-appropriate choreography. And probably not in a thread where the topic is children and sexually appropriate behavior.

If the girls in the clip had been wearing tights and leotards, rather than stockings with red satin with black lace, the iffiness would be minimal.

Their parents are currently making the rounds of the various Two-Minutes-Hate outlets to blame society.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgyV_ooV9Wg

In a provocative performance to Beyoncé's "Single Ladies," the audience goes wild as the little girls wiggle and shake in perfect sync while wearing lingerie-like costumes. What's making this controversial is that they're just eight and nine years old.

There's no doubt that the second and third graders are talented. But are their moves also inappropriate?

The internet is blowing up with fiery comments about the dance. "Even Beyoncé and her back-up dancers were more covered up than this!" writes an Entertainment Weekly columnist.

While one blogger writes, "Were there no adults around to tell them to do something suitable? Yikes."

Melissa Presch is the mom of one little dancer. She and Cory Miller, the father of another child spoke to INSIDE EDITION about the national uproar.

"I'm shocked, quite frankly, that people would suggest such things and say such things about 8 and 9 year old girls," said Melissa Presch.

INSIDE EDITION's Jim Moret asked Miller, "Is there anything in these movements to you, that is overly sexualized?"

"As a father, when you're watching your kid, no. You're looking at it as a proud kid who has really high energy, who doesn't really know what she's doing," he said.

The girls were invited to perform in a dance exhibition called "World of Dance" in Pomona, California. Someone posted the video of their performance on YouTube and suddenly the grammer schoolers and their parents found themselves under siege.

"People are taking it out of context, in that, these are dance moves, not sexual moves," said Presch.

The parents say, the girls were actually inspired by a scene in Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakuel."

"Our girls don't watch music videos. They haven't seen the Beyoncé video. What they have seen is the Chipettes do it in the Alvin and the Chipmunks movie," said Presch.

The parents also shared a video with INSIDE EDITION of the girls dancing in a less provacative routine.

Moret asked Presch what she would want to say to the critics. "These are amazing little girls. They work very hard at what they do. They're very passionate about dance," Presch said.

[Maddy]

You're being an ass, Barracuda. I'm not replying to you any longer. Make all the excuses you wish for the pedos.

[barracuda]

Wait, there were pedophiles in the OP? I must have missed those. What I saw were children dancing. But I get it - we disagree and that makes me an ass, and an apologist for pedophilia. Nice.

[Nordic]

Cuda, you're suggesting that boys playing cowboys and indians are completely innocent of bad cultural influences?

That could be a whole 'nuther thread, that takes us into the national propgandizing of Westward expansion and revisionist history etc. etc. etc.

But that notwithstanding, boys playing cowboys and indians are just messing around, they are not choreographed into it by their parents, nor are their wardrobe choices foisted upon them.

How would you like little boys dressed up like The Village People, dancing around to "YMCA" with their hairless bodies all oiled up?

That would be more equivalent to what we're talking about.

"YMCA" was a hugely popular song, but I sure wouldn't want to see my 7 year old son gussied up like a West Hollywood club hopper and paraded around on a stage for all to photograph and gawk upon.

It's fucked up, and I don't see how you can really defend it. You make interesting rhetorical points, but I really don't think you believe them. I see you do this a lot, by the way, you seem to enjoy a certain amount of satanic advocacy.

And maybe that's why you get accused of being an "ass".

[lightningBugout]

To allow this one little cultural node to become fodder for outrage and indignation seems like a rather primitive scapegoating process. All we're really seeing is the convergence of the successful manufacturing of the Tween demographic, a process that began really in the early 1980s when Reagan rejected consumer protection for advertising aimed at children and the corollary sexualization of children. Can't remember the name but there is a great documentary that KPFK was selling during a pledge drive a few months back that is all about that process. Most interesting to me was how those industries which market to children use very, very sophisticated behavioral research. Doing things like watching a child test subject take a bath to learn precisely how they interact with the product. At one point a commentator in the doc says "I'll just come right out and say it - these people are very similar to pedophiles."

And there's decidedly nothing new about the ritual "sacrifice" of children in this culture. I've just started Bruce Chilton's book, "Abraham's Curse" about the etiology of violence in the Abrahamic religions and which frames many aspects of our time (like, say, Jingoism) in terms of the story of Abraham / Isaac. He convinces me that the "aqedah" is a crucial, foundational aspect of our culture and one that goes a long way towards explaining all sorts of common psychological / transpersonal phenomena.



In sum it seems to me this video is simply a glaring sort of totem that masks the shadow of child sacrifice endemic in our culture. There is nothing unusual about it.

[barracuda]

How would you like little boys dressed up like The Village People, dancing around to "YMCA" with their hairless bodies all oiled up?

Oh, you mean like this:



One of the countless such videos available on PedoTube. What the hell were the parents and teachers thinking??

[lightningBugout]

FWIW I found this viral video equally disturbing. It seems harmless to many, I suppose. But I simply see a kid being adulated for performing as an adult and giving a speech he barely even comprehends. Why do some adults take so much pleasure in kids acting "grown up?"

[Simulist]

Personally, I think children are being expected to act like adults way too early (on all sorts of levels), while adults remain adolescents way too long (on all sorts of levels). Maybe the latter is overcompensation for the former.

Also, I think reasonable people can watch that video, and see it quite differently, without anyone being an apologist for pedophilia.

[justdrew]

... aqedah ...

Maybe, but looking at the background and the many takes on this story, it seems to me that no one really knows what it means... "It means whatever it means to you."

What I'll say on the subject is... God didn't tell Abraham to do a damn thing. Abraham made it up in his own mind to kill his son, then thought better of it at the last moment and killed an animal instead. Then there is the apparent willingness of Isaac to be murdered by his own father, having been inculcated by the false belief that god tells people what to do, presumably Isaac believed what his father said was the truth and so was willing to submit to his own execution. Any resistance would have probably meant apostasy, and probably being hunted and murdered by the entire community anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_Isaac

for me, it's a story about the danger of using false religion (that would be all of them) to structure a society and individuals minds to allow this 'voice of god' to tell them to do things.

The voice in the head is you and no body else but you... boop boop bee do.

(and you can always be wrong. think hard before doing anything you can't undo.)

If I were making that into a light comedy today, the angel would be Abraham's wife in a costume shoving a boar into the clearing and giving the command to knock it off with the son killing routine already.

and... finally... the youtube video has been removed by yak films via copyright claim.

[lightningBugout]

I take Chilton to be saying that there is a dangerous but persistent interpretation of the story that denies a more holistic reading and conveniently justifies a variety of pseudo-human-sacrificial acts. Jingoism and militarism are wildly obvious examples. Yet I am most interested in how the very bloody paradigm of "human sacrifice" dovetails with a variety of common psychological phenomena like scapegoating, transference, projection, etc. As though it is really perhaps a foundational economy undergirding the way individuals relate to and interact with their milieu.

[justdrew]

I take Chilton to be saying that there is a dangerous but persistent interpretation of the story that denies a more holistic reading and conveniently justifies a variety of pseudo-human-sacrificial acts. Jingoism and militarism are wildly obvious examples. Yet I am most interested in how the very bloody paradigm of "human sacrifice" dovetails with a variety of common psychological phenomena like scapegoating, transference, projection, etc. As though it is really perhaps a foundational economy undergirding the way individuals relate to and interact with their milieu.

yeah, that seems fair. That process surely exists, and the story is attractive to people subject to that type of thinking. Not sure which came first, but in terms of getting rid of that reaction complex, the story hanging around doesn't help.

it may be "hard-wired" standard human brain structure, at least for one of the variety of human neuro-types present in the world. the dominant one. that needs to stop being dominant. Someday a cure for self-titled normals may be found. I think nutrition, upbringing are mostly enough, but a retrovirus to hack the genome may be necessary.

==

Did anyone else read the story about the woman accused of abusing kids finally cleared after ruining her life for years? It all started because two families of knuckle-draggers caught their two 6-9yo daughters "touching" each other and of course freaked the hell out over completely normal human behavior. Well these families had already had a fight with this elementary school teacher and hated her and guess what? they coached and tormented these two girls into making claims against the teacher. Eventually the clueless law enforcement got the teachers own daughter into the game, forcing her to testify against her own mother in court. The only claim law enforcement alerted on was that mom had "put icky medicine on her." After years of torment and death threats, her career ruined finally the jury has thrown the case out of court. innocent.

All that ruination and torment over the vindictive claims of some religious cretins who don't even know what it is to be human. And another "false claim" precedent to be used to cast aspersions on cases that actually have merit. The whole thing is just miserable and really makes we want to just throw up my hands and walk away. Too bad there's no where to go.

[Searcher08]

cos personally, I think the people in that chain should be in pound-in-the-ass Federal prison sharing a cell with a 500lb hairy Aryan Nations member called Leroy.

It would seem to me far worse to be incarcerated with a fit and healthy member of the Aryan Nations.

What's wrong with being hairy? What's wrong with the name Leroy? One of my best pals weighed 500 lbs for a long time and she would have made lock-up into one big pajama party.

etc etc

Enough already!
My post has just been Building 7-ed

[Nordic]

How would you like little boys dressed up like The Village People, dancing around to "YMCA" with their hairless bodies all oiled up?

Oh, you mean like this:



One of the countless such videos available on PedoTube. What the hell were the parents and teachers thinking??

They're not showing skin. The girls in question are showing a lot of skin.

Something tells me you don't have kids, Cuda.

[barracuda]

I do though, actually. A girl nearly the age of these girls.

[82_28]

Personally, I think children are being expected to act like adults way too early (on all sorts of levels), while adults remain adolescents way too long (on all sorts of levels). Maybe the latter is overcompensation for the former.

Also, I think reasonable people can watch that video, and see it quite differently, without anyone being an apologist for pedophilia.

Wasn't it in the Victorian Era that children were merely thought of a "little adults"? And it wasn't until fairly recently that it was suggested by sociologists, psychologists and the like that children be given a "childhood"? I'm sure someone can dig up a good link about that. I looked briefly, but didn't find anything off hand yet.