Hoaxes or Creativity Suppressed?

[Rory]

Mission accomplished Wintler2 ?

What are you on about? You are bigging him up to be some kind of omnipotent bogy-man.

Get a grip...

Oh, You challenged me to participate in this thread: How about replying (for the third time of asking).

exotic technology. What do you mean exactly?

Is it tech that produces no effective pollution?

Is it tech that is cheap, easily manufactured and distributed?

Does it require any expensive, hard to find/mine/extract metals, plastics or other composite materials? (and are any of these likely to be sourced from areas of conflict - such as where precious and rare metals are extracted (Congo region for example) or like the middle east?)

Is this technology some kind of miracle battery/energy cell for home/local use?

Is it big project, clean fusion type national/global use?

Is it some kind of 'energy from thin air' tech, or does it require a fuel of some description?

Now: Let's assume it is best case scenario; Clean, cheap, infinite fuel, local use. Powers houses and cars - no more hydrocarbons whatsoever.

Corporations are going to be even more efficient, able to reach further and further and, able to fulfill 'their customers desires' even better than before. The same psychopathic drive for profit and power will be there.

Military is gona be doing shit but off the leash. MIC r&d guys with unlimited energy point sources? *shudders*

Other stuff is going to need the same resources, such as is being aggressively mined in Africa and Asia. These are finite and massively destructive to the indigenous communities. And also to the Chinese factory workers. Meat will still be ground to a pulp by industry and the military.

And lastly, population and food required to sustain it. Well? It's been growing at an alarming rate with the hydrocarbon bonanza: it will be out of control with unlimited energy. We would turn into a metaphorical hoard of locusts and pick the planet clean.

would it turn out differently to my hypothetical? Would unlimited free energy somehow lead to the combination of world peace/unilateral disarmament, removal of the patriarchal hetronormative paradigm and the corresponding sociopatholigarchy, and, a societeal drive towards collective evolution within a sustainable and symbiotic relationship with all other aspects of the planets flora/fauna system.

I see a perpetuation of all of the worst excesses of the hydrocarbon bonanza, not a change in direction. If others see it differently, I'd like to see reasoning. And I am operating under the assumption that this magical tech exists and indeed is being supressed - for the sake of argument . Because I don't know if any of us here to anything other than suspect it at best

[Sounder]

Thanks wintler2, I'm not comfortable about Rossi's back-story either as it comes off as a bit contrived sometimes. But I have less doubt about the brillouinenergy folk being on to something or that there is promise for the creation of cascade reactions through novel combinations of materials, whose theoretical understanding cannot be fully recognized within the constraints of our current model.


If Rossi is of that one religion then this is probably a fraud. (Joke)

[slimmouse]

Mission accomplished Wintler2 ?

What are you on about? You are bigging him up to be some kind of omnipotent bogy-man.

Get a grip...

Oh, You challenged me to participate in this thread: How about replying (for the third time of asking).

exotic technology. What do you mean exactly?

Is it tech that produces no effective pollution?

Is it tech that is cheap, easily manufactured and distributed?

Does it require any expensive, hard to find/mine/extract metals, plastics or other composite materials? (and are any of these likely to be sourced from areas of conflict - such as where precious and rare metals are extracted (Congo region for example) or like the middle east?)

Is this technology some kind of miracle battery/energy cell for home/local use?

Is it big project, clean fusion type national/global use?

Is it some kind of 'energy from thin air' tech, or does it require a fuel of some description?

Now: Let's assume it is best case scenario; Clean, cheap, infinite fuel, local use. Powers houses and cars - no more hydrocarbons whatsoever.

Corporations are going to be even more efficient, able to reach further and further and, able to fulfill 'their customers desires' even better than before. The same psychopathic drive for profit and power will be there.

Military is gona be doing shit but off the leash. MIC r&d guys with unlimited energy point sources? *shudders*

Other stuff is going to need the same resources, such as is being aggressively mined in Africa and Asia. These are finite and massively destructive to the indigenous communities. And also to the Chinese factory workers. Meat will still be ground to a pulp by industry and the military.

And lastly, population and food required to sustain it. Well? It's been growing at an alarming rate with the hydrocarbon bonanza: it will be out of control with unlimited energy. We would turn into a metaphorical hoard of locusts and pick the planet clean.

would it turn out differently to my hypothetical? Would unlimited free energy somehow lead to the combination of world peace/unilateral disarmament, removal of the patriarchal hetronormative paradigm and the corresponding sociopatholigarchy, and, a societeal drive towards collective evolution within a sustainable and symbiotic relationship with all other aspects of the planets flora/fauna system.

I see a perpetuation of all of the worst excesses of the hydrocarbon bonanza, not a change in direction. If others see it differently, I'd like to see reasoning. And I am operating under the assumption that this magical tech exists and indeed is being supressed - for the sake of argument . Because I don't know if any of us here to anything other than suspect it at best

You ask some pretty tough questions there, my friend. From my perspective, I see cheap renewable energy based upon the utilisation of the hydrogen atom. It does of course involve other elements, but nothing too expensive to extract, once the cost of extraction is reduced to little to zero.

I see desalination plants that can produce an endless supply of cheap water. I see irrigated deserts. I see no reason to blow countries to bits to extract their oil or impose a fractional reserve bankiing system on a species that has little real need for money once it can feed itself for nothing and live for next to nothing.

I see technology that takes us into the heavens, and seriously into medicine and preserving our species instead of resource wars, and the need for indefinite growth as the current system dictates ( for the ongoing one percent), that neccesitates destruction.

In fact if I see what the controllers see, its small wonder they dont like the idea, because where does that leave them ?

I see the glass as nearly full, you see it as nearly empty.

I guess thats where it ends, in a difference of opinion.

[wintler2]

.. You ask some pretty tough questions there, my friend.

And you answered none of them.

From my perspective, I see cheap renewable energy based upon the utilisation of the hydrogen atom.

H occurs always tightly bonded to other elements - where is the energy going to come from to split it off? At best H is a maybe-oneday-practical energy carrier, it can never be an energy source.

It does of course involve other elements, but nothing too expensive to extract, once the cost of extraction is reduced to little to zero.

The cost of extracting anything is never zero, and given declining ore grades for most elements, is usually rising. Which other elements did you mean?

[slimmouse]

.. You ask some pretty tough questions there, my friend.

And you answered none of them.

From my perspective, I see cheap renewable energy based upon the utilisation of the hydrogen atom.

H occurs always tightly bonded to other elements - where is the energy going to come from to split it off? At best H is a maybe-oneday-practical energy carrier, it can never be an energy source.

It does of course involve other elements, but nothing too expensive to extract, once the cost of extraction is reduced to little to zero.

The cost of extracting anything is never zero, and given declining ore grades for most elements, is usually rising. Which other elements did you mean?

Well, there are those who believe you can extract the hydrogen atom from its tight binding by exploiting the flaws in the weak nuclear force. But I'll leave you to explain how that wont be happening anytime soon, cos imagination dont feed your kids.

What we need instead is More "Global Warming" style round and round argument ?

Which I guess means were all doomed. Mission accomplished ?

[wintler2]

Well, there are those who believe you can extract the hydrogen atom from its tight binding by exploiting the flaws in the weak nuclear force.

Okay. But again, wheres the energy coming from?

But I'll leave you to explain how that wont be happening anytime soon, cos imagination dont feed your kids. What we need instead is More "Global Warming" style round and round argument ? Which I guess means were all doomed. Mission accomplished ?

Not for me - i was hoping you might explain the basis for your free energy zealotry, & all i got the merest allusion to something that might carry but could never be a source of energy (H).

And yet another personal attack. We gonna have a party when you get to your 5000th?

B .. o.. r.. i.. n.. g.

[slimmouse]

A brief report on the Defkalion LENR, and its progress here ;

They showed me the experimental set-up -- running, producing heat. It includes a control chamber and an active reaction chamber. After the two are run simultaneously -- one with the low energy nuclear reaction (aka cold fusion), and one without -- showing that the low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) system produces at least 20 times more heat; they will then switch the reaction chambers, removing the nickel and hydrogen from one (cleaning it out to make sure there are no residual elements), and adding these ingredients to the other chamber, which previously was the 'control' or 'blank' chamber; to prove that the data remain the same. They will also show that some gamma radiation comes from the reaction chamber of the LENR system, as evidence that a low level nuclear reaction of some kind is indeed taking place (though not on a dangerous level to those operating the test). The final product will be fully shielded to prevent emission of stray radiation.



http://pesn.com/2012/02/13/9602039_Hope ... ld_Fusion/

[Iamwhomiam]

Neat! Gamma Rays! and the fuel only needs to be replaced every 6 months. Sounds wonderfully promising, but how about a demo of it generating electricity, instead of just heat?

[slimmouse]

Heres a very sobering interview with Mark Dansie, which gives a fair evaluation of where "free energy' technology is currently at. As Ive mentioned earlier, this is a man whos walked the walk . Sound analysis IMO;

Begins at 42.28

http://pesn.com/2012/03/03/9602049_Mark ... interview/

[brainpanhandler]

Free thinkers unite!

[Sounder]

BPH wrote...

Free thinkers unite!

that didn’t happen, so we get this instead.

Good living ain’t easy on the inside of a fascist mindfuck.

[brainpanhandler]

Look man. This thread is an illustrative microcosm of the seemingly never ending clash between the members that believe there is some concerted effort afoot to censor and suppress free thinkers and the members that simply want to be rigorous about their search for truth. No one is trying to suppress free thought. Challenging outside the box thinking with the tools of mainstream science and logic is not an attempt to silence creativity or more fanciful voices. Neither is it necessarily an endorsement of mainstream science and logic as the only avenue to the truth. Ok?

This silliness needs to be put to bed already.

I WANT to believe. I WANT my worldview shaken up. I WANT to be challenged. I WANT my neurons rearranged. I find nothing else quite so intellectually exhilarating when it happens. But I see no reason those desires need be antithetical to a rigorous approach.

It's as though the we're-being-suppressed-crowd don't even register comments like these:

first let me say that certain new sources of energy probably are being suppressed...

Also just fyi, i am very willing to agree that reductionist science sucks at explaining whole holons of what we call reality, and that we understand little of it. But that wont make my car go.

[slimmouse]

Look man. This thread is an illustrative microcosm of the seemingly never ending clash between the members that believe there is some concerted effort afoot to censor and suppress free thinkers and the members that simply want to be rigorous about their search for truth. No one is trying to suppress free thought. Challenging outside the box thinking with the tools of mainstream science and logic is not an attempt to silence creativity or more fanciful voices. Neither is it necessarily an endorsement of mainstream science and logic as the only avenue to the truth. Ok?

This silliness needs to be put to bed already.

I WANT to believe. I WANT my worldview shaken up. I WANT to be challenged. I WANT my neurons rearranged. I find nothing else quite so intellectually exhilarating when it happens. But I see no reason those desires need be antithetical to a rigorous approach.

It's as though the we're-being-suppressed-crowd don't even register comments like these:

first let me say that certain new sources of energy probably are being suppressed...

Also just fyi, i am very willing to agree that reductionist science sucks at explaining whole holons of what we call reality, and that we understand little of it. But that wont make my car go.

Im sure these comments are born of frustration, since it would take something of myopic viewpoint to suggest they are founded in disbelief of the idea that this planets energy requirements might be comfortably met without the need for her continuing wholesale rape.

[Iamwhomiam]

bph, well said. perfectly put.

[DrEvil]

What bph said.

Also - the headline: "Hoaxes or Creativity Suppressed" is missing "or Didn't Pan Out". It doesn't have to be black and white.

There's plenty of "exotic" energy research going on that's not being suppressed. It's just that they're still in the research stage, figuring out how to make it viable and cost effective.

Here's an overview of current fusion research for instance:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2013/05/nuclea ... mmary.html

As for the magical catch-all "Zero Point energy" or "Vacuum energy" (same thing), yes, it's real, but there are still no useful applications. But there's (again) plenty of research going on that's not being suppressed, and with some potential future applications. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect