Area 51: Uncensored History author on NPR Fresh Air

[Avalon]

What are the points where her story agrees or disagrees with Redfern's?

[elfismiles]

What are the points where her story agrees or disagrees with Redfern's?

Convergent Elements:

- Both involve an allegedly remote controlled saucer-like craft
- Both involve craft allegedly born of Nazi Horton Brothers aviation forms
- Both involve "alien" / "pilots" that were "actually" people with genetic defects (either induced or inate)
- US Gov/Mil continued the work of the Japanese / German (& Russian in Annie's vrsn) human experimenters


Divergent Elements:

- In Nick's book the US imported the research (experiment victims from Japan / plane plans from Germany) after the war
- In Annie's book the US continued the research after the Russkies somehow got the plane and occupants here

[elfismiles]

How the hell can you say that Jack? As a member of the RI forum you are familiar with MK-Ultra and related projects. You are no doubt familiar with the various publicly verified radiation experiments on unwitting human subjects. That's all this story is, within the Redfern thread ... that is Americans continuing Mengele-like research on human test subjects in much the same way we already know they did under Mkultra etc.

Why is that less credible than ETs?!

I didn't say your ideas are less credible, I said the Jacobsen-transmitted story is "less credible," which is just a manner of speech in which I compare a ridiculous new idea to an older idea that has already been established as ridiculous, as a way of saying that both have zero credibility, in my view. However, while some people actually believe the aliens story, the Mengele-Stalin story of the Roswell incident is an obvious and pathetic strategem to cover up whatever was really going on, so it's far more worthy of contempt. Anyway, no critique of your ideas was intended. Peace.

.

[EDIT: Okay, sorry for being thick-headed; yer comparing the ET and Stalin theories, not the Unit-731 theory.]

No problemo Jack, not taking it personally, these aren't my ideas (they aren't even Nick's or Annie's - we're all just relating what they've been told by others), though I have invested more "belief" in their possibility than in their impossibility.

Again, I don't understand why the idea of the US govt covering up their own research that used disabled people is less credible than the ET idea, in your (or others') eyes.

We have the history of MKultra where they experimented on all manner of unwitting victims (including children - though the evidence for that seems to have been better hidden away) in manners not entirely dissimilar to those described ... so why is it unreasonable to consider that version told to Redfern as not credible?

What exactly do you and others find incredible about the idea of our government using disabled people as unwitting experimental subjects?

[JackRiddler]

Again, I don't understand why the idea of the US govt covering up their own research that used disabled people is less credible than the ET idea, in your (or others') eyes.

Gah. So it's clear now I consider the former credible and the latter about a zero chance?

What exactly do you and others find incredible about the idea of our government using disabled people as unwitting experimental subjects?

Nothing at all. That would be historical denial.

Okay? Great!

Oh, and you're right, this is classic projection propaganda, where the USG attributes the original sin to the enemy, so as to ameliorate the confession of its own crimes. They started it! Like the stories that present MK-Ultra as a response to North Korean experiments. All nuclear weapons advances came from the US, and were sold to the politicians as a response to what the Soviets might be able to do in the future even if they haven't thought of it yet, or supposedly already did (the "missile gap") even though they had not, forcing US to do it first. The bastards.

.

[elfismiles]

Annie Jacobsen
Popular Mechanics wanted to focus on my anonymous source's testimony/veracity. I explain here:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... c=soc_twtr
24 May

http://twitter.com/#!/AnnieJacobsen/sta ... 6828650496

Excerpts from interview...

Q
Let's talk about the book's most controversial claim: that the long-claimed crash of a UFO near Roswell, N.M., didn't involve a flying saucer of extraterrestrial origin, but one of Soviet origin. Correct?

A
It's not an argument of mine. It's the oral history of one man whom I absolutely trust implicitly with the information. He's the only source in my book who's anonymous; everyone else uses their real names. I think this is where some of the controversy comes from: People are somehow skeptical of my using an unnamed source. Of course, this is part of journalism historically—you sometimes have to use unnamed sources. And I believe that the program the source told me about—the reverse-engineering of a flying disk from the Soviet Union—is not declassified, so he remains anonymous for reasons of safety and security.

I absolutely stand by the veracity of what he told me, which is that something did crash in New Mexico; it was taken to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base; and then in 1951, it was transported to the Nevada desert. Hence, that is why Area 51 has the name Area 51.

Q
The chief piece of evidence you offer is his eyewitness report that inside the saucer was a band of Cyrillic lettering. What did it say?

A
[I don't know.] He was an engineer, whose "need to know" was about reverse-engineering the craft, meaning taking it apart . . . so he did not have a need to know about what the Russian writing said.

Q
Were there instruments or controls inside that also bore Cyrillic lettering?

A
I never asked that question, but there were instruments and controls inside of the craft. What he told me is that he believes it was piloted remotely. He also says that there's room for the fact that it could have been flown by the pilots, who were child-size but may have been older.

As preposterous as it sounds, we know from the testimony at Auschwitz and also at the Nuremberg trials that [Nazi scientist] Joseph Mengele was conducting barbaric experiments on midgets. The whole thing sounds so preposterous, [but] the reason I chose to include it in my book is that I believe in the veracity of my source. I've worked with him now for two years. He's someone who has an impeccable career. He worked for the Atomic Energy Commission over three decades. He was an early member of the Manhattan Project right after the war, so that period of time when it was still the Manhattan Project and before it became the Atomic Energy Commission. I've examined his Atomic Energy Commission awards and certificates. I examined his war record, his military records, his medical records.

So as stunning or jaw-dropping his revelation . . . may seem, I believe it, and I made the decision to include it in my book.

Q
So the craft appeared to have been crewed by children?


A
Yes.

Q
At one point you mention that they were about 13, or seemed to be. And they had been physically altered or were deformed in some way?

A
[First,] there's what the source did—he was an EG&G engineer, one of five who received this equipment and reverse-engineered it, and also had access to the child-size pilots. Then there's what he was told, and what he was told was that it was a flying craft sent by Stalin to create a hoax à la The War of the Worlds. And what he was told was that these child-size pilots had been the horrific creation of Dr. Mengele at Stalin's direction.

So, certainly there's room for interpretation, but I'm very clear in the book about what he told me—I put it in quotes—and then what I add to support that evidence.

Q
At least one of these child pilots was apparently still living, though in a comatose state, when your source actually saw this creature in 1951, four years after the crash. How long did he live beyond that point?

A
Well, my source only worked with the equipment and the child-size aviators for two weeks. In that [two weeks], one of them died.


Q
Did the child-size aviator who died die of natural causes?

A
That I don't know.

Q
You interviewed 74 people with intimate knowledge of the facility. Is your unnamed source the sole source for the Soviet provenance of the saucer?

A
Yes. I've had conversations with many of the men in my book who worked on the other projects at Area 51, and there's a split: A couple people are really stunned and horrified by it, and say[b] that it's impossible, it could never happen. And others, not so.

Q
This source is one of only five engineers who held the kind of elite position he did, and he's the only one still living. So, surely his colleagues have figured out that he spoke with you. The government knows he spoke with you. He certainly knows that they must know. Besides all that, he has to be a very old man at this point. Why does he insist on anonymity?

A
When you sign an exit agreement with the government, you are not allowed to talk about programs that are still classified.


Q
So it gives him plausible deniability?

A
It's also possible that people don't know. His colleagues don't know who he is, although everyone in my book was referred to me by at least two other people—in other words, all the men know each other through at least two people; there's no lone wolf that no one has heard of.

Q
All things considered, does this seem to you a more logical explanation of the Roswell crash than the old claim that it involved an alien spaceship?

A
I trust the source, I trust his veracity, I trust his full capacity—however old he may be—to be able to talk to me coherently. So, if you're working from the premise, as I am, then it certainly makes a lot of sense.

Q
You have to know that it's going to strike some people as pretty nutty.

A
Absolutely. I understand that. I got some emails from a big conspiracy group in the U.K., and they said: "Even we don't believe you."

Look, my source in telling this story, it was a matter of conscience for him. He has done many great things for the United States. He's a true patriot and a real hero, and he worked on programs that absolutely kept America nationally secure. It took a lot of difficulty for him to be able to share this with me, but I know that he knows in his heart, and he told me this, that that rogue program was wrong. That is why he decided to share it, because once he's gone, it's gone.

Read more: UFO Crash Roswell N.M. - Annie Jacobsen Area 51 - Popular Mechanics

[justdrew]

is there supposed to be anything spectacularly interesting about the technology of the craft? or was it just another flying disk shaped airplane?

[Spiro C. Thiery]

Same Annie Jacobsen as the "terror in the skies dry run" Annie Jacobsen?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/skyterror.asp

All I can say is "way to go" to the rigorous intuition of Luther Blissett. Not that I found her credible in any way, shape, or form.

But has anyone found any publication that has allocated her space&time to have made this connection? Popular Mechanics? CNN? Comedy Central? NPR? NBC? The Daily Beast? And no doubt a long list of other outlets with broad reader-/viewer-/listener-ship?

Yet only here do I get a reminder of the nature of this woman's storytelling (on a "national security" level).

[elfismiles]

Just got this announcement from a friend ... if yer in the Santa Monica area ... check it out!

June 2

I am soooo here... Join possible CIA plant/disinfo agent Annie Jacobsen as she discusses her new book about Area 51 with a panel of actual people involved with the base. “In her hotly anticipated new book, Los Angeles Times investigative journalist Annie Jacobsen pulls back the curtain of secrecy and reveals the uncensored history of Area 51, America’s top secret military base. Based on recently declassified documents and unprecendented access to military and intelligence personnel who worked inside the base, Area 51 is sure to stir a provocative and important conversation with readers the world over. In this author talk, Jacobsen will lead a panel discussion featuring Area 51 insiders Ed Lovick (considered the grandfather of stealth technology), Ken Collins (one of the CIA’s elite A-12 Oxcart pilots) and Wayne Pendleton (EG&G special projects engineer). A book sale and signing will follow the author’s presentation.” 7P at the Santa Monica Public Library, 601 Santa Monica Blvd. No rsvp required. http://calendar.smgov.net/library/event ... sp?ID=4270

[Nordic]

wow. yeah i saw her picture the other day at that library! i thought i'd missed it but i see it's tonight!

i don't think i can make it but in case i can thanks for the heads up.

[American Dream]

http://www.straight.com/article-401206/ ... new-ground

Annie Jacobsen pens a love letter to war technology in Area 51


Lockheed’s SR-71 aircraft was tested at the secret Area 51 base in Nevada.

By Adrian Mack, June 28, 2011
Published by Little Brown, 384 pp, hardcover


In 2004, after sharing a domestic flight with 13 innocent Syrian musicians that she deemed “suspicious”, Annie Jacobsen penned a notorious tract called “Terror in the Skies, Again?”. A federal investigation dismissed her claims that they were performing a “dry run” hijacking, but it didn’t matter. Jacobsen’s widely read panic attack had done its bit for the war on terror.

Jacobsen has no credibility, although she does possess a gift for getting her mug on TV. She’s receiving scads of media attention for her history of America’s most famous top-secret military base (if you’ll pardon the paradox). Working from declassified reports and interviews with retired personnel, Area 51 describes the development of nuclear and stealth technology, the early role of the United States Atomic Energy Commission in establishing a huge parcel of Nevada for secret weapons testing, and a cartoonish behind-the-scenes battle between the air force and the CIA for funding and presidential favour.

In Jacobsen’s world, Lockheed and other defence contractors are assumed to be a force for good, and the personnel she interviews are humble American heroes from a simpler time. Behind it all is a lust for stealth and weaponry. There’s no context to Jacobsen’s admiring chapter on drone technology, for instance. No mention of dead Afghan children or illegal strikes in Pakistan. She’s also bent on protecting the dashing gentleman spies of the CIA—meaning suited thugs like Richard Helms—while painting the air force as brutes, and hanging the Atomic Energy Commission out to dry for irradiating huge swathes of Nevada (fair enough).

One wonders, basically, who Jacobsen is really working for. Her agenda hardens in a chapter titled “The Lunar-Landing Conspiracy”, in which she brandishes the term “conspiracy theorist” like a 17th-century New England preacher screaming “Witch!” Again, there’s no context, as if goofy moon-landing hoax theories negate any and all forms of skepticism. But Jacobsen is a cheerleader for orthodoxy; she goes on to suggest in the face of prevailing evidence that secret military technology explains most if not all UFO sightings.

Ironically, Jacobsen’s biggest “scoop” is beyond stupid. Based on a lone anonymous source, she claims that it was actually a Soviet flying disc that hit the ground in Roswell, piloted by monstrously deformed 13-year-olds bred by Josef Mengele at the request of Stalin himself. In this laughably written chapter, Jacobsen finally seems to find her moral compass, striking a pose of high dudgeon while lacing into the Atomic Energy Commission for the foul inhumanity of its own forays into human experimentation, sparked—it’s claimed—by the discovery of Stalin’s program (true to form, she downplays the CIA’s far more expansive behaviour-control program MKULTRA earlier in the book). Her conclusion is that “a group of powerful men” defiled morality and the constitution “in the name of science and national security”.

In a 400-page love letter to war technology, Jacobsen becomes quite the crusader for one whopping paragraph. And a bit of a conspiracy theorist.

[elfismiles]

Grant Cameron: “Disclosure” Has Already Happened

Grant Cameron has been looking for answers since his own dramatic sighting in 1975. After years of searching through documents in Presidential libraries, he only recently gave up. “You would think that they’d never heard of UFOs” he says.

This week, he sent me an untitled work in progress. The paper examines the genesis of the Area 51 story and concludes that the reason for the so-called “leaks” from the secret base in the early 1990s was that a group in the U.S. intelligence community was trying to get the truth of alien contact and ET technology into the public discussion. By selectively releasing stories ranging from nearly benign to totally paranoid, Cameron thinks that there is a plan to both frighten and desensitize the public so that when the reality of an alien presence is revealed, the dominant emotion will be relief that the wildest rumors were only that.

Grant and I have been in contact for many years, and have communicated with many of the same government people. During the program, we debated many of the finer points of evidence for government knowledge of the UFO subject. He has concluded that, based on the public statements of current and former intel personnel, that the U.S. Government is dealing with a non-human race which has arrived on Earth in “nuts and bolts” craft. I am not quite ready to make that leap, and I hope that our back-and-forth over the course of the show is enlightening. It was for me, even though I remain unconvinced of anything, especially when it involves the statements of spies and others tasked with keeping national secrets. A fun and lively interview.

http://radiomisterioso.com/audio/Grant_ ... _25_11.mp3

Check out the original source here
Radio Misterioso

www.RadioMisterioso.com

www.PresidentialUFO.com

[Wombaticus Rex]

"I think this is where some of the controversy comes from: People are somehow skeptical of my using an unnamed source."

Priceless!

[MinM]

Author is a disinfoteer and NPR is CIA-media.

Today National Propaganda Radio's 'Fresh Air' promoted a book by an LATimes national security correspondent and contributing editor....let that sink in...
telling us that the UFO story has 'real things' embedded in it to hide them. Ahem. Sound familiar?

Oh, but the 'real things' turned out to be more nonsense about 'genetically modified 13 year old humans sent by Stalin in the Horton brothers' flying disc to cause panic in the US.

Win-win.
The UFO hoax is sustained.
The exposure of psyops trick of embedding real things in W.O.O. to hide it is discredited.
Terry Gross gets to pretend that she's a skeptical journo asking the hard questions.

How science fictional will AMC's 1950s drama Area 51 be?

With AMC dropping its mystery drama The Killing and Breaking Bad wrapping at the end of this season, the cable channel is looking for a new television hit. It looks like they're putting their money on Walking Dead executive producer Gale Anne Hurd and Area 51, a series about the mysterious military base set in the 1950s and 1960s. We're sure to see some mad science being done in the top secret base, but will we also get hints of alien activity?

The Hollywood Reporter has confirmed that Area 51 is already in production. The series is based on journalist Annie Jacobsen's book Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base. Jacobsen's work is not science fiction, and in fact claims that the object of the 1947 Roswell UFO Incident was, in fact, a Soviet flying disc, which is a big strike against aliens or their remains popping up.

Still, we should at least get some strange, possibly fictional, Cold War-era science out of the series. The accuracy of Jacobsen's book has been called into question, especially in her account of the Roswell crash. Most strikingly, she claims that the Soviet plane was manned by child-sized pilots biologically manipulated by Josef Mengele at Stalin's behest. Will that detail, and other bits of mad science, make it into the show? With all the ratings success AMC has had with The Walking Dead, I'd be surprised if they shy away from a science fictional account of those decades at Area 51.

AMC Developing 'Area 51' Drama With 'Walking Dead' EP [THR via Blastr]

http://io9.com/5929853/how-science-fict ... rea-51-get

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34035

[MinM]

You know Area 51, but just what in the world is Area 6?


Mysterious 'Area 6' Landing Strip in Nevada Desert Baffles Experts


https://twitter.com/AboveTopSecret/stat ... 4119726080

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23568

[Luther Blissett]

This is the dawning of a new era!
Sticks and stones may break my bones
In area six they throw bottles and bricks and kicks