Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

[Simulist]

Haim Saban: “I’m a one-issue guy, and my issue is Israel.”

So, what do we call him?

Well, one of the things we might call one-issue sorts of people is... "simple minded."

[slimmouse]

Haim Saban: “I’m a one-issue guy, and my issue is Israel.”

So, what do we call him? An Israel-onlyer? Calling him an Israel-firster implies that there's a number 2.

Anyway. I think we should start a Rothschild thread, separately from this one. I once tried to read a very thick history of the Rothschilds. It had lots of very interesting tidbits, but because it was an authorized history and mostly read like a hagiography, these tidbits were buried like little needles in a big, boring haystack. I ploughed through about half of it before I gave up.

Still, try as the author might, he failed to portray them as just another rich family dabbling in culture and the arts, etc. Though bored beyond belief, I did come away from the experience with the conviction that trying to understand global deep politics and the "way things work" without examining the Rothschilds is like trying to understand the modern Middle East without examining the role of Western imperialism.

It would be really nice if we could finally give the Rothschilds the "RI treatment".

I think what might truly help that discussion, and take away the racist connotations is calling them by their true names.

Bauer.

Thats one of histories little tidbits that would have been long ago buried, but for due diligence on behalf of some. Hmm. I wonder why that might be ?

Im sure AD has the answer.

[American Dream]

I think what might truly help that discussion, and take away the racist connotations is calling them by their true names.

Bauer.

Thats one of histories little tidbits that would have been long ago buried, but for due diligence on behalf of some. Hmm. I wonder why that might be ?

Im sure AD has the answer.

If you're alluding to something like the idea that Nazi/Thule factions are really behind the World Jew-er Zionist Conspiracy- as I think is promoted by David Icke- I do have an answer, but probably not the one you want. You'd probably be able to glean just as much of a cogent, evidence based argument from perusing the Levi's Roundup of Western Indian Lore:





And Levi's and Bauer are even on the same page, yet:






And Levi is not only a Hebrew name, what about the famous occultist who used that handle? And then there's Bauer/Bayer/I.G. Farben all on the same page.

See- the J-er zionists were laughing at us in 1954!!



Revelation of the Method!!!

[slimmouse]

I think what might truly help that discussion, and take away the racist connotations is calling them by their true names.

Bauer.

Thats one of histories little tidbits that would have been long ago buried, but for due diligence on behalf of some. Hmm. I wonder why that might be ?

Im sure AD has the answer.

If you're alluding to something like the idea that Nazi/Thule factions are really behind the World Jew-er Zionist Conspiracy- as I think is promoted by David Icke- I do have an answer, but probably not the one you want. You'd probably be able to glean just as much of a cogent, evidence based argument from perusing the Levi's Roundup of Western Indian Lore:





And Levi's and Bauer are even on the same page, yet:






And Levi is not only a Hebrew name, what about the famous occultist who used that handle? And then there's Bauer/Bayer/I.G. Farben all on the same page.

See- the J-er zionists were laughing at us in 1954!!

Revelation of the Method!!!

None of the above AD.

Im alluring to their real name. Is that not their real name ? If it is then why is this some kind of problem to you ?

I await patiently for a few answers to a few select coincidence questions I posed to you earlier .

[American Dream]

None of the above AD.

Im alluring to their real name. Is that not their real name ? If it is then why is this some kind of problem to you ?

I await patiently for a few answers to a few select coincidence questions I posed to you earlier .

Whose real name?

And please repeat the questions...

[slimmouse]

None of the above AD.

Im alluring to their real name. Is that not their real name ? If it is then why is this some kind of problem to you ?

I await patiently for a few answers to a few select coincidence questions I posed to you earlier .

Whose real name?

And please repeat the questions...

Who's real name ? Seriously ?

Repeat the questions ? Seriously ?

Youre a blast aint ya ?

[American Dream]

None of the above AD.

Im alluring to their real name. Is that not their real name ? If it is then why is this some kind of problem to you ?

I await patiently for a few answers to a few select coincidence questions I posed to you earlier .

Whose real name?

And please repeat the questions...

Who's real name ? Seriously ?

Repeat the questions ? Seriously ?

Youre a blast aint ya ?

Here's what Wikipedia says about Bayer:

"Bayer AG was founded in Barmen (today a part of Wuppertal), Germany in 1863 by Friedrich Bayer and his partner, Johann Friedrich Weskott."



And if you want me to respond to your "coincidence questions", why don't you tell me what precisely you mean?

[Nordic]

Maybe I'm an idealist, but ....

"Country" should be synonymous with "Community".

I don't think anyone would think it wrong to want what is best for one's very own community.

Then again "Community" is how you define it.

But if someone lives in my community, but they're really more interested in what happens to some other community, to the point where they don't care if they fuck up my community to help THEIR other community, then I think they should move the fuck back to their PRIMARY community and do the work there.

After all, why are they in my community to help their OTHER primary community if not to exploit mine in some way?

Everybody needs to take care of their own communities. If everybody sticks to that, things work out pretty well.

If someone is an "Israel First" person, then they should be an Israeli citizen and live in Israel. And you can insert any other country for "Israel" in that sentence.

If I moved out of the country to live somewhere else, by doing so I would be turning my back on my own country, divorcing it, and it would no longer be my community. Which is fine, if that's what you want to do. Just be up front about it.

The only way it would be an honest thing to do is if you were working in another community would be to have diplomatic ties with them, or something roughly equivalent to that. Or to get educated in something that you can take back to your own community. Or even to do honest trading of goods. But you don't have to take up another country's citizenship to do those things.

Yes, of course, the whole idea of "Loyalty" to one's country and "Patriotism" and all that jingoistic crap has been used and abused for millenia to support racism, genocide, war, and despotism, but that's like what Alice talked about (great post, BTW, Alice) and it's using people's natural passions for a GOOD THING to manipulate them into doing something bad on behalf of someone else.

[Searcher08]

A_D, stop channeling Hugh - you are doing that TOO well and weirding me out

slim, it is common for Jewish people to have had name changes in their family. I have a Kelly among my Jewish friends who great grandparents fled Russian pogroms and started with nothing in the East End of London. The name change? because the great grandfather made an good Irish friend
So name changes get a great big So What? from me.

I think it is important to be really forensic in this - just do a search for Bauer Rothschild and you get a pile of poop. The Wiki article is actually quite a good starting place, but it also points to difficulties in research.

I think the idea of Beginners Mind is really useful here - and NOT to treat any fact as 'meaning' something significant and scary.

[American Dream]

Maybe I'm an idealist, but ....

"Country" should be synonymous with "Community".

I don't think anyone would think it wrong to want what is best for one's very own community.

Then again "Community" is how you define it.

But if someone lives in my community, but they're really more interested in what happens to some other community, to the point where they don't care if they fuck up my community to help THEIR other community, then I think they should move the fuck back to their PRIMARY community and do the work there.

After all, why are they in my community to help their OTHER primary community if not to exploit mine in some way?

Everybody needs to take care of their own communities. If everybody sticks to that, things work out pretty well.

If someone is an "Israel First" person, then they should be an Israeli citizen and live in Israel. And you can insert any other country for "Israel" in that sentence.

If I moved out of the country to live somewhere else, by doing so I would be turning my back on my own country, divorcing it, and it would no longer be my community. Which is fine, if that's what you want to do. Just be up front about it.

The only way it would be an honest thing to do is if you were working in another community would be to have diplomatic ties with them, or something roughly equivalent to that. Or to get educated in something that you can take back to your own community. Or even to do honest trading of goods. But you don't have to take up another country's citizenship to do those things.

Yes, of course, the whole idea of "Loyalty" to one's country and "Patriotism" and all that jingoistic crap has been used and abused for millenia to support racism, genocide, war, and despotism, but that's like what Alice talked about (great post, BTW, Alice) and it's using people's natural passions for a GOOD THING to manipulate them into doing something bad on behalf of someone else.

The one thing I hear missing from your analysis, Nordic, is that most all of the ordinary politicians here in the U.S. are not really working for "the Community" but rather for some portion of 1%- whose interests are mostly diametrically opposed to ours...

[Iamwhomiam]

I could agree with you, Nordic, but what happens when your community is suddenly told that it's no longer your community and that you will have to leave, or face brutal discrimination, if you don't?

Many folks have dual Israeli-US citizenship. So do citizens from other parts of the world have dual US-? citizenship.

Sadly, your comments seem to me to reflect a tribal, separatist form of thinking. I'm more of a why can't we all just get along, kinda guy. Pardon me if I've misunderstood you intent and please do correct me if I have.

Alice, I'd love to see a thread on the Rothschilds. I once read and interesting and fairly comprehensive history of the family. But I'm not sure such a thread would be welcome here; it's difficult for some folks to discuss this family especially, without revealing their deep prejudices. And inevitably, that will draw radicals from both sides.

But few families have had the impact upon history that this one has.

[Nordic]

Well, AD, it's not missing any more, because you've added it!

I could agree with you, Nordic, but what happens when your community is suddenly told that it's no longer your community and that you will have to leave, or face brutal discrimination, if you don't?

Many folks have dual Israeli-US citizenship. So do citizens from other parts of the world have dual US-? citizenship.

Sadly, your comments seem to me to reflect a tribal, separatist form of thinking. I'm more of a why can't we all just get along, kinda guy. Pardon me if I've misunderstood you intent and please do correct me if I have.

Alice, I'd love to see a thread on the Rothschilds. I once read and interesting and fairly comprehensive history of the family. But I'm not sure such a thread would be welcome here; it's difficult for some folks to discuss this family especially, without revealing their deep prejudices. And inevitably, that will draw radicals from both sides.

But few families have had the impact upon history that this one has.

I think you have misunderstood. Ultimately, yes, we are all citizens of the earth, and the community of humans should belong to everyone.

Maybe it's because I live in Los Angeles, but Los Angeles is a perfect example of what happens when a "community" gets so big that nobody really gives a damn about it because, well, it's just too spread out. and nobody feels like they can be a part of it.

In what we call "Los Angeles" most of the truly desirable places to live are those little islands which actually are their own municipalities. Santa Monica, Culver City, Beverly Hills are a few examples. When you live there, you actually have a sense of community, and it shows. The schools are far better, there's less vandalism, the standard of living is simply higher, and there's a community spirit and a feeling of some ownership in the community.

Call that "tribal" if you want, so be it, but humans need that, since we've spent probably 99% of our evolution in tribal situations and it's where we thrive.

Again "tribal" can be good or bad, like "love" or "loyalty".

I have a bit of a different perspective in that I was born in another country, and lived there quite a bit growing up. Germany to be exact. And while I loved living in Europe and wouldn't have traded the experience for anything, and even had dual citizenship for a while when I was a kid (until my mother got rid of it because she didn't want me getting drafted into the German army), I never felt like I was a citizen of "Germany". I was always American.

(At the same time when I came back to America, I never really quite felt like I was an "American" either that much, always felt like a bit of an outsider, but I think that was because most of my fellow Americans had never been out of the country, or even out of their home states, and they seemed really strange to me that way)

Like I said, I am an idealist, and I think if everybody took care of their own communities in an educated and loving and enlightened way, we wouldn't have to worry about the world at all.

what happens when your community is suddenly told that it's no longer your community and that you will have to leave, or face brutal discrimination, if you don't?

Well obviously that's where the notion of the common community comes in, and where we recognize that we're all of the Human Community and we help each other out.

And I too would like to have a thread on the Rothschilds, because they're quite the tantalizing figures and I know almost nothing about them. It seems you can't utter their name without being called "antisemetic". So there must be something there, right?

[Searcher08]

I could agree with you, Nordic, but what happens when your community is suddenly told that it's no longer your community and that you will have to leave, or face brutal discrimination, if you don't?

Many folks have dual Israeli-US citizenship. So do citizens from other parts of the world have dual US-? citizenship.

Sadly, your comments seem to me to reflect a tribal, separatist form of thinking. I'm more of a why can't we all just get along, kinda guy. Pardon me if I've misunderstood you intent and please do correct me if I have.

Alice, I'd love to see a thread on the Rothschilds. I once read and interesting and fairly comprehensive history of the family. But I'm not sure such a thread would be welcome here; it's difficult for some folks to discuss this family especially, without revealing their deep prejudices. And inevitably, that will draw radicals from both sides.

But few families have had the impact upon history that this one has.

My intuition is that it could be fun... from the p of v of sacred cow tipping but also bringing more light than smoke to an interesting subject. From what I have read, they would probably be much more interesting people to spend an evening with than most - particularly to ask them how they fit the time in to mind control Prince William, who is, apparently, the AntiChrist

[American Dream]

Googling "Icke Rothschild" will yield a ton of, um, "information"...

[Nordic]

Googling "Icke Rothschild" will yield a ton of, um, "[i]information[/i]"...

Why do you seem to be chafing as to a thread discussing who they really were?