National Mall Immolation 2013

[elfismiles]

Well, still no data on an alleged videographer's involvement - no mention of a tripod in this photographer's description...

By Max Ehrenfreund, E-mail the writer

Javier Soto spent Friday with his camera, following the standard itinerary for tourists in the nation’s capital. While his wife was attending a medical conference, he took pictures of the Smithsonian, the Washington Monument and the Lincoln Memorial. Then he went to see the Thomas Jefferson Memorial and the White House.

Finally, he returned to the National Mall and, just before 4:30 p.m., aimed his camera east, toward the Capitol.

“That was the last stop that I had planned,” he said.

As he was shooting, a man appeared in the center of his frame, standing near Seventh Street, with his back to Soto. He poured gasoline over his body from a canister, and, before igniting the fuel with a lighter, gave the Capitol a crisp military salute.
Soto’s camera kept clicking as flames engulfed the man’s body and passersby rushed to his aid.

“I just kept shooting,” said Soto, 39, of Little Rock. “I didn’t know what to do in that moment.”

The entire sequence of events lasted about a minute, according to his camera’s data. Once Soto realized what had happened, he joined the small group trying to help the man.

They removed their clothing and used it to try to smother the flames. The man, still conscious when emergency personnel arrived, thanked them for the help, according to accounts from the scene.

Their efforts were in vain. A U.S. Park Police helicopter flew the man to MedStar Washington Hospital Center, where he died about 9 p.m. Friday, according to D.C. police.

On Saturday, authorities still did not know who the man was or why he immolated himself. Because of the severity of his burns, medical personnel would have to try to identify him using DNA analysis and dental records, Officer Araz Alali said.

“This case remains active and ongoing,” he said.

The incident came on the heels of two other unsettling events in the area in the past month.

The man lighted himself on fire just a few blocks from where federal agents killed Miriam Carey after a car chase from the White House to the Capitol. And Washington Navy Yard, where Aaron Alexis shot and killed 12 people last month, is just over two miles away.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/max-ehren ... _page.html

[Nordic]

I can't believe this would even be a topic of dispute.

Why can't you believe it would be up for debate? I think it's a perfect topic for debate and discussion. There are no moral absolutes that apply to suicide and suicide as protest. If you think there are, you're engaging in Fundamentalist thinking.

Well how about until the day you've actually stopped someone from killing themselves you stfu about something of which you have zero experience.

Many people who attempt suicide are in the depths of a mental illness and often later deeply regret their decision and are fucking happy to be alive and happy to have not put their fucking children through the suicide of a parent. Just as an example.

Damn you are really an obnoxious piece of work.

[Carol Newquist]

Well how about until the day you've actually stopped someone from killing themselves you stfu about something of which you have zero experience.

How would you know I have no experience? Actually, I do. I stopped (or I thought I did) my mother from committing suicide, or at least that's what she said she was going to do. That was almost thirty years prior, and she's still alive....watching FOX News religiously and believing Obama's the Anti-Christ. So, I do have experience, and you know what my experience revealed to me? She wasn't going to commit suicide, despite her dramatic attempts. If she really meant it, FOX News would have one less fan right now, and Obama would have one less person who thought he was the Anti-Christ. So, no, I won't stfu.

That being said, your experience and my experience are anecdotal, so it's not the final say on the matter. I think suicide's a bit more complex than our limited observations from our limited experiences with it.

Many people who attempt suicide are in the depths of a mental illness

http://thebipolarized.com/2012/04/01/suicide-statistics-among-lies-and-the-truth/

Suicide Statistics: Among Lies and the Truth

Yes, you heard that right. 0.14% Assuming that 90% of all people that commit suicide are depressed, you only get 0.14%. This means that the actual figure is even lower than 0.14% when you deduct substance abusers from the 90%.

Conclusion: less than 0.14% of depressed individuals commit suicide. If the 15% figure was true, you’d have 15 out of 100. What this means? It means that if if the population of the depressed people in the united states is 21.8 million, you’d have 3,270,350 deaths per year. I don’t think so!

Now that we have verified that less than 0.14% of depressed individuals commit suicide, need I say more about the other three figures we had needed? Need I say more about the bullshit fed to us in our most trusted sources–text books–that 15% of the depressed commit suicide?

[Iamwhomiam]

If you're determined to kill yourself you can always do it in complete privacy.

I'm not determined to kill myself, but if I was, I would do it in whatever manner I pleased so long as I didn't harm others in the process. I don't need you to tell me where and how I can do it. It's my choice, if I wanted to make it. You don't get a say. That's the beauty of suicide.

Are you open to suggestions?

[The Consul]

I have performed cpr on two different people with success, have responded appropriately with two different individuals having gran mal seizures, talked a friend out of murder/suicide. However, in all honesty, I doubt the thought of saving his life would have crossed my mind. Not sure I could judge him anymore than Those who tried to save him.

It would be a spontaneous judgment call. Would danger to yourself be a determining factor for your not interfering?

Aside from the flames, I see I see no difference why in one case you would prevent someone from exercising their free will to die and in the other you doubt you would even think about saving another. Perhaps had you foreknowledge of his planned suicide by fire, would you have tried to talk him out of it? Why?

Well, you cannot save someone after they have jumped off of a bridge. That is where he was and one would hope he was in a trance as he lit himself aflame. I don't think you can talk someone out of it if they are at that point. Lighter in hand, soaked with gas. The best you can do is ask them why they are doing it, if they can hear you. Then, according to what they say you might argue that lighting themselves on fire would overwhelm their message or distract from the message they are trying to send. He might have had the same kind of motivation as Thich Quang Duc. His intention of sacrifice could be equal or superior to my impulse to disuade him from doing so or to save him after ignition.
I was on the Ship Canal bridge once and a leaper held up traffic. Some people were yelling "jump" others were crying dont you still have something to live for. It was very disturbing listening to all the voices. Jump because I am late for the job I hate or don't jump because you have something to live for...ah...sure you do...you must...don't we all?

Sometimes you act. Sometimes you respond. Sometimes you don't. For me it is no more surprising either way. I am at once grateful and fearfull of the forces without that move me through these unconscious mysteries.

[Iamwhomiam]

I'm glad you replied, Counsel. I meant to compliment you for your heroic actions. It's quite a rush to have saved a life and to have rescued one from suicide leaves one feeling saintly, especially when there's a very happy ever after. There are those who would also turn their back on these fellow humans in distress. I don' wanna get involved.

Speaking of saving one after they've jumped, I recently heard on NPR a very interesting story. It told of survivors, those who had attempted suicide by jumping from a bridge, I believe it was from one of San Francisco's bridges. From the exact very moment they let go, they knew somehow they had made the wrong choice and immediately regretted it. However, they survived and they now value each and every day, each moment of the day, much differently than before their attempted suicide. Now treasuring life, living in the moment.

I do agree with what you say so and it well demonstrates your compassion.

The best you can do is ask them why they are doing it, if they can hear you. Then, according to what they say you might argue that lighting themselves on fire would overwhelm their message or distract from the message they are trying to send. He might have had the same kind of motivation as Thich Quang Duc. His intention of sacrifice could be equal or superior to my impulse to disuade him from doing so or to save him after ignition.

I believe if there was such an opportunity to converse with one in this situation I would do the same or with words similar in meaning.

Please don't misunderstand me. I don't begrudge one the right to commit such a self-sacrificing sensational act. I can certainly see the value of such expression stemming from what one would call a hopeless situation. But in the case, what's the fellow's message?

When I lived in the projects and a fight drifted into my view and many did, I'd interfere and break it up or move it along. Being told to mind my business I would reply that it became my business when you brought it to my front door. Don't want me involved? Move it around the corner, where neither my children or I will have to witness or hear it.

[quote]Sometimes you act. Sometimes you respond. Sometimes you don't. For me it is no more surprising either way. I am at once grateful and fearfull of the forces without that move me through these unconscious mysteries.[/quote]

[8bitagent]

It's funny...I always hear these young kids how they joined the marines/army, willing to "die" for their country. Or religious people willing to die for a cause.
There's absolutely no belief or cause I would die for, let alone risk serious injury for. Accept jumping to save someone from drowning or running into a burning building if firefighters werent there.

I guess I have no real convictions and am ultimately a mouseclick "activist" like everyone else...though I fantasize about going back in time and joining the big civil rights and anti war protests

[justdrew]

Iamwhomiam, isn't that why an old old form of mental health treatment involved throwing someone off a cliff into the ocean. Not high enough to be certainly fatal. Most people could take the dive and swim in, yet it wasn't 100% sure. Most made it back to land and 'succesful treatment cases' had the experience you describe above. Not actually 100% sure this existed. but I swear I read about it somewhere. Anyone else ever heard of the sink or swim cure?

---

[Carol Newquist]

Are you open to suggestions?

Oh my God. Wow. On a forum that solicits MC victims to share, this statement goes unchecked. Not a word from anyone about its inappropriateness. I have stated that I don't judge someone's decision to commit suicide, or their freedom of expression to perform their suicide in public as a form of protest, and someone takes it as an opportunity to goad me into suicide as a form of revenge.....a pseudo murder, if you will. Stunning, but not surprising. As a group, I think it's time you start being careful about what you're doing from a legal standpoint. Inviting potentially fragile people online and then pummeling them and goading them into suicide comes dangerously close to gaslighting. The more mature in the audience who have some form of clout in this group, have a duty to check this destructive behavior.

[IanEye]

a pseudo murder, if you will.

Inviting potentially fragile people online and then pummeling them and goading them into suicide comes dangerously close to gaslighting.

The more mature in the audience who have some form of clout in this group, have a duty to check this destructive behavior.

they all have skeletons in their closets which are preventing them from coming forward.
Big skeletons, with teeth.
Either that or they are just greedy mother fuckers who are keeping quiet for the money.

*

IMHO some of the victims were not even AT the bombing, therefore they weren't victims

*

Gangstaland
Doucheworld
Fearbury
slutengrad
Nightmaristan

[seemslikeadream]

Family: Man who set self on fire was mentally ill
| October 8, 2013 | Updated: October 8, 2013 8:18am


Photo By Katy ScheflenFILE - In this Oct. 4, 2013 file photo provided by Katy Scheflen, people run to a man who set himself on fire on the National Mall in Washington. Police on Monday, Oct. 7, 2013 identified the man, who later died, as John Constantino, 64, of Mount Laurel, N.J., though police had no more information on his possible reasons.
WASHINGTON (AP) — The death of a New Jersey man who set himself on fire on the National Mall was the result of his long fight with mental illness, not a political statement, his family said.

John Constantino, 64, of Mount Laurel, N.J., poured the contents of a canister of gasoline on himself in the center portion of the mall Friday afternoon, police said. He then set himself ablaze, with passing joggers taking off their shirts to help put out the flames.

Police had said Constantino conscious and breathing at the scene, but he died later that night at a Washington hospital.

"John Constantino was a loving father and husband. His death was not a political act or statement, but the result of his long battle with mental illness," his family said in a statement issued through attorney Jeffrey Cox.

The statement did not address the nature of the mental illness.

The family said in the statement that it "would like to acknowledge the heroism of the paramedics and bystanders who attempted to save" Constantino.

The family "is shocked and deeply saddened," the statement said. Describing the incident as a "personal family matter and not an issue of public concern," it asked that the media respect its request for privacy.

[Carol Newquist]

It's funny...I always hear these young kids how they joined the marines/army, willing to "die" for their country. Or religious people willing to die for a cause.
There's absolutely no belief or cause I would die for, let alone risk serious injury for. Accept jumping to save someone from drowning or running into a burning building if firefighters werent there.

That would be "except," not "accept." Your compulsion and impulse to save that drowning person or that burning person is the same compulsion and impulse for not an insignificant number of people who join the armed services. Certainly not all of them, and most likely not the majority, but there are a substantial number who believe they are doing it to save the world.....from what, they probably couldn't give you an intelligent answer, but they feel a need to save.

This image comes to mind (thanks to Krysos). The U.S. may not be a Christian Nation, but this savior theme is embedded in the culture.

[Wombaticus Rex]

As a group, I think it's time you start being careful about what you're doing from a legal standpoint. Inviting potentially fragile people online and then pummeling them and goading them into suicide comes dangerously close to gaslighting.

You have succinctly nailed the entire purpose of this community. Very astute.

[alan ford]

John Constantino, 64, of Mount Laurel, N.J., poured the contents of a canister of gasoline on himself

!!??

[seemslikeadream]

As a group, I think it's time you start being careful about what you're doing from a legal standpoint. Inviting potentially fragile people online and then pummeling them and goading them into suicide comes dangerously close to gaslighting.

You have succinctly nailed the entire purpose of this community. Very astute.

well you seem to think you can speak for all babies

That is true. I would imagine sadistic pedophile rings are thankful for your speaking for babies, as well. You've given them carte blanche cover to traumatize young toddlers and infants since you, as their spokeperson, said trauma doesn't affect them. I find your smug confidence in the context of this forum as it relates to babies to be grotesque in the extreme. It's a known fact that victims of MC visit these haunts. In fact, there's a thread open right now about victims of MC. Many of these victims were tortured and abused as young children, some no doubt even before they started encoding conscious memories. For you to smugly assert this at this forum to score points is callous disregard for those who have suffered trauma at the hands of monsters. I'm equally disturbed that the topic of the thread is what MC survivors should do. One would think one thing they could do is step up when someone diminishes, marginalizes and dismisses a young toddler's or infant's capacity to be scarred by trauma.

yeah if I wasn't so together I'd feel like offin' myself with this comment .....rubber meet road

since day one here at RI NO one has ever been so nasty to me ...

and guess what? ...you're speaking to a survivor here ...mam

it would behoove you to slow your roll on the offensive

So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late



Born Edward Louis Severson III in 1964, Eddie Vedder formed the grunge rock band Pearl Jam in 1990. Their first album, Ten, explored themes of depression and suicide, producing the hits "Alive," "Evenflow" and "Black."