Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of internet

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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:36 pm

Elvis » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:56 am wrote:The biggest threat to the health of this forum isn't government trolls, it isn't the NSA, the FBI, Gilad Atzmon, the National Anarchists or game-playing newcomers; the biggest threat to this forum is the poison being passed around right here by longstanding members...[/i].


I respectfully disagree - and I'm not looking for a flame-war over it. A few bickerments are par for the course on a board where so few of us actually know each other personally - and it's easy to be mean and nasty when remote from the situation. The threat (and they will get round to us, eventually, if not already) of being targeted by the intelligence services is real-life. Everything we type here is logged and recorded. The internet is not and has never been 'secure'. Constructive criticism and working towards a less intimidating future must surely now be paramount. Cliched, I know, but what the hell. I learned yesterday that most routers in the UK have a backdoor that allows the intelservices the option to upload anything they like to your PC, hide it, then bust down your door at 6am and and accuse you of whatthehell they like. And the files will be on your PC to prove it. THAT is some scary shit. Beats board-bickering hands-down in my book.
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby brainpanhandler » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:46 pm

Stated goals from page 49:

Full roll out complete by early 2013
150+ JTRIG and Ops staff fully trained

mainstreaming work - push reduced
"level 1" tradecraft to 500+ GCHQ
analysts

"relentlessly optimise training and tradecraft"
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby brainpanhandler » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:52 pm

If I were to assemble an RI team to analyze this it would certainly include Pan and Wrex. Sigh.

On page 50 there is a photo of Teller with the quote: "Conjuration with information". Not surprised by that. If I had to pick a couple of magicians likely to cooperate with the state Penn and Teller come to mind.

Teller in recent years has broken his silence and given interviews.

Teller Reveals His Secrets
The smaller, quieter half of the magician duo Penn & Teller writes about how magicians manipulate the human mind
By Teller
Smithsonian Magazine
March 2012


In the last half decade, magic—normally deemed entertainment fit only for children and tourists in Las Vegas—has become shockingly respectable in the scientific world. Even I—not exactly renowned as a public speaker—have been invited to address conferences on neuroscience and perception. I asked a scientist friend (whose identity I must protect) why the sudden interest. He replied that those who fund science research find magicians “sexier than lab rats.”

I’m all for helping science. But after I share what I know, my neuroscientist friends thank me by showing me eye-tracking and MRI equipment, and promising that someday such machinery will help make me a better magician.

I have my doubts. Neuroscientists are novices at deception. Magicians have done controlled testing in human perception for thousands of years.

Read more at http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-cult ... UZtQz1O.99


More info on fmri:

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... =8&t=37737


The Honor System

Stealing magic has become a commonplace crime. Teller, a man of infinite delicacy and deceit, decided to do something about it.
September 17, 2012, 12:40 AM
By Chris Jones

His startling, angular house, built against a hillside in the red Nevada desert — "a poorly camouflaged military installation" is how he describes it; it's the one with the giant skull painted on the roof — is a monument to his love.

("Sometimes magic is just someone spending more time on something than anyone else might reasonably expect," Teller says.)

http://www.esquire.com/features/teller- ... rview-1012


Magic and the Brain: Teller Reveals the Neuroscience of Illusion
By Jonah Lehrer 04.20.09

Now that on-the-job experimentation has taken an academic turn. A couple of years ago, Teller joined a coterie of illusionists and tricksters recruited by Stephen Macknik and Susana Martinez-Conde, researchers at the Barrow Neurological Institute in Phoenix, Arizona, to look at the neuroscience of magic. Last summer, that work culminated in an article for the journal Nature Reviews Neuroscience called "Attention and Awareness in Stage Magic." Teller was one of the coauthors, and its publication was a signal event in a field some researchers are calling magicology, the mining of stage illusions for insights into brain function.

...

While the magicians are educating the scientists, so far the scientists haven't offered much in return. Cowboy trick aside, Teller says, "this is an example of entertainers getting there first." And he wishes it weren't so. Teller hopes that laboratory insights will offer ways to break free of the stale tricks that have defined magic for decades—much as new technologies made possible the illusions of David Abbott in the early 20th century.

...

Teller has spent enough time with researchers to think they might be the key to an entirely new category of stage magic—that the quirks and flaws of perception uncovered in the lab can be commercialized, essentially, into illusions for an ever more sophisticated audience. "Maybe I'll learn something from these scientists," he says with a wry smile.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoverie ... ntPage=all
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby divideandconquer » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:48 pm

"... titled provocatively by the same guy who five minutes ago was running the anti-Greenwald smear campaign on this board. "


I could be wrong, but I don't think Nordic changed his mind about Greenwald, but at the same time, I think he knows most of what Greenwald reports is the real deal, otherwise Greenwald wouldn't have any intelligent followers.

Here's the thing. Alex Jones often reports accurate and well-sourced information, yet, it doesn't change my opinion of him. He's still a shill for some power that is. In other words, just because the person is a shill/agent/whatever, doesn't mean the information that they share is false or doesn't deserve attention. 95% of the time, it's the truth. So, I've learned to take the information and check it out for myself, totally disregarding who published it.

I mean, Greenwald, especially, knows his followers are very intelligent. He's knows he better stay a few steps ahead or it's over.

I say this as someone who used to contribute to Greenwald. That's how much I believed in him.
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby vanlose kid » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:56 pm

divideandconquer » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:48 pm wrote:
"... titled provocatively by the same guy who five minutes ago was running the anti-Greenwald smear campaign on this board. "


I could be wrong, but I don't think Nordic changed his mind about Greenwald, but at the same time, I think he knows most of what Greenwald reports is the real deal, otherwise Greenwald wouldn't have any intelligent followers.

Here's the thing. Alex Jones often reports accurate and well-sourced information, yet, it doesn't change my opinion of him. He's still a shill for some power that is. In other words, just because the person is a shill/agent/whatever, doesn't mean the information that they share is false or doesn't deserve attention. 95% of the time, it's the truth. So, I've learned to take the information and check it out for myself, totally disregarding who published it.

I mean, Greenwald, especially, knows his followers are very intelligent. He's knows he better stay a few steps ahead or it's over.

I say this as someone who used to contribute to Greenwald. That's how much I believed in him.


And right there you sum up the criticism in a nutshell. What is bothersome is the framing, the drip-controlled dissemination of a tiny heavily-redacted fraction of the data, and the grand narrative. To many it is not about Greenwald or Snowden but the info. It's like watching a nature program with Attenborough and all you really want is for the panting social-Darwinist to shut up and get out of the way. What makes GG credible (what makes all propaganda credible) is that it's 95% true. It's the five percent sugar that stricks in the craw. That's why there is a call for just the info. But that won't happen. We get the drip and monetisation and once again, we are given proof that benevolent and principled capitalism with debate can save the planet or something.

Rosebud.

*

All some of us want is the info without the noise and grandstanding and guided exegesis.

But we can't have that because we are not worthy. Because that would be irresponsible leaking. Because we need to have it explained to us.

*

Gatekeepers.

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby vanlose kid » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:05 pm

Glenn Greenwald.

Posterboy for the American Dream. Yes, you can ... have your cake and eat it.

*
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby Project Willow » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:17 pm



Totally owning that. Have gotten pissy myself at least once lately.
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby brainpanhandler » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:38 pm

Project Willow » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:17 pm wrote:


Totally owning that. Have gotten pissy myself at least once lately.


I was referring to the fact that Elvis had just called a number of people dickheads. I don't begrudge him doing so and I can own part of that.

I am at something of a loss on what to do about this impasse.

Maybe I'll just start another thread in a subforum.
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby Searcher08 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:28 pm

Judging by a lot of the facebook, twitter and media coverage I have seen, GCHQ's reputation has been reduced to a public laughing stock over Operation FuriousSalamiSpanking, sorry, I mean Operation Optic Nerve, with MI6 keeping the UK safe by watching the public bonking or going fapfapfap on webcam.

At the same time two of the most senior figures in the UK Labour Party are shown as basically being pedophilia activists.

I wonder what connections there are between these things.

I wonder what info there is in those Snowden docs about areas like human trafficking and global pedo networks...
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby FourthBase » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:43 pm

JackRiddler » 27 Feb 2014 17:45 wrote:
brekin » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:00 pm wrote:But have you wondered why so many threads are becoming about you?


Nope. I'm pretty clear why. Someone on Nordic's level is going to find it easier to attack me personally (even if these attacks are wild stabs in the dark that bear no relation to reality) rather than admit he's wrong, especially if I'm the one saying that he's wrong. One part that is my fault is that I have no mercy about leaving any room for face-saving, which a guy like Nordic really needs. Also, I have this ugly way of how I identify steaming piles of bullshit. I just go and call them that, exposing myself to similar counter-rhetoric, even if it doesn't fit.

People in general have this bad thing about language, which the Internet magnifies. It doesn't matter if the argument is about oxygen vs. phlogiston, or flat earth vs. spherical; once someone says fuck or some such ("drops the f-bomb" in the hokey and parlous American parlance), or kindly points out that an interlocutor is a moron, it's supposed to make both sides equally wrong and causes the dainty to avert their eyes and wash their hands of the whole thing (until they get into some other flamewar and use the same kind of rhetoric). After all, we're all equally entitled to whatever bullshit opinion we want to repeat ad infinitum and it's our human right never to be contradicted on the Internet (said contradiction being censorship, violence, bullying just like the bigger kids who beat up on Nordic when he was young, probably close to genocide, etc., etc.)

Anyway, it's very easy to make low-information types angry by being too rough in exposing their fallacies. c2w? used to do it in a much nicer way, but in the end got sick of it and was harrassed into silence anyway. Also, projection is just too easy to do, so whatever one says, everyone knows how to reflect it back, whether or not the equivalence is true. And yeah, I'm a mean bastard who releases a lot of real world anger by beating up on easy targets on the Internet, which actually helps me to stay a nice guy in real life. It's not like I'm the only fucker using this place for therapy or catharsis. There are a few other obvious cases around here, but right now I'm the one being hammered for it because I'm supposed to hold to a higher standard because of the quality of my prior work (involving actual research and standards, etc., largely wasted on some of the regular posters but I happen to know appreciated by several who matter to me. I'm probably losing some of my 14 RI regular readers. Hate to think that. Anyway, better stop fixing up this post or I'll get some other accusation that - gasp! - I used the edit function!).


:clapping:

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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby Luther Blissett » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:58 am

A good discussion about the Reddit censorship of the latest government infiltration and disruption of cyber communities story, by one of their best subreddits: http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comm ... ing_glenn/
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby Nordic » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:23 am

I wasn't going to put this here, but since Jack "He's like Shakespeare" Diggler has decided to have a hissy for over shades of gray in the world, I'll put it here:

http://pando.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omid ... ents-show/

Pierre Omidyar co-funded Ukraine revolution groups with US government, documents show

Just hours after last weekend’s ouster of Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, one of Pierre Omidyar’s newest hires at national security blog “The Intercept,” was already digging for the truth.

Marcy Wheeler, who is the new site’s “senior policy analyst,” speculated that the Ukraine revolution was likely a “coup” engineered by “deep” forces on behalf of “Pax Americana”:

“There’s quite a bit of evidence of coup-ness. Q is how many levels deep interference from both sides is.”

These are serious claims. So serious that I decided to investigate them. And what I found was shocking.

Wheeler is partly correct. Pando has confirmed that the American government – in the form of the US Agency for International Development (USAID) – played a major role in funding opposition groups prior to the revolution. Moreover, a large percentage of the rest of the funding to those same groups came from a US billionaire who has previously worked closely with US government agencies to further his own business interests. This was by no means a US-backed “coup,” but clear evidence shows that US investment was a force multiplier for many of the groups involved in overthrowing Yanukovych.

But that’s not the shocking part.

What’s shocking is the name of the billionaire who co-invested with the US government (or as Wheeler put it: the “dark deep force” acting on behalf of “Pax Americana”).

Step out of the shadows…. Wheeler’s boss, Pierre Omidyar.

Yes, in the annals of independent media, this might be the strangest twist ever: According to financial disclosures and reports seen by Pando, the founder and publisher of Glenn Greenwald’s government-bashing blog,“The Intercept,” co-invested with the US government to help fund regime change in Ukraine.

[Update: Wheeler has responded on Twitter to say that her Tweets were taken out of context, but would not give specifics. Adam Colligan, with whom Wheeler was debating, commented on Pando that "while Wheeler did raise the issue of external interference in relation to a discussion about a coup, it was not really at all in the manner that you have portrayed." Further "[Pax Americana] appeared after the conversation had shifted from the idea of whether a coup had been staged by the Ukrainian Parliament to a question about the larger powers’ willingness to weaken underlying economic conditions in a state.” Neither Wheeler or Colligan has commented on the main subject of the story: Pierre Omidyar’s co-investment in Ukrainian opposition groups with the US government.]

* * * *

When the revolution came to Ukraine, neo-fascists played a front-center role in overthrowing the country’s president. But the real political power rests with Ukraine’s pro-western neoliberals. Political figures like Oleh Rybachuk, long a favorite of the State Department, DC neocons, EU, and NATO—and the right-hand man to Orange Revolution leader Viktor Yushchenko.

Last December, the Financial Times wrote that Rybachuk’s “New Citizen” NGO campaign “played a big role in getting the protest up and running.”

New Citizen, along with the rest of Rybachuk’s interlocking network of western-backed NGOs and campaigns— “Center UA” (also spelled “Centre UA”), “Chesno,” and “Stop Censorship” to name a few — grew their power by targeting pro-Yanukovych politicians with a well-coordinated anti-corruption campaign that built its strength in Ukraine’s regions, before massing in Kiev last autumn.

The efforts of the NGOs were so successful that the Ukraine government was accused of employing dirty tricks to shut them down. In early February, the groups were the subject of a massive money laundering investigation by the economics division of Ukraine’s Interior Ministry in what many denounced as a politically motivated move.

Fortunately the groups had the strength – which is to say, money – to survive those attacks and continue pushing for regime change in Ukraine. The source of that money?

According to the Kyiv Post, Pierrie Omidyar’s Omidyar Network (part of the Omidyar Group which owns First Look Media and the Intercept) provided 36% of “Center UA”’s $500,000 budget in 2012— nearly $200,000. USAID provided 54% of “Center UA”’s budget for 2012. Other funders included the US government-backed National Endowment for Democracy.

In 2011, Omidyar Network gave $335,000 to “New Citizen,” one of the anti-Yanukovych “projects” managed through the Rybachuk-chaired NGO “Center UA.” At the time, Omidyar Network boasted that its investment in “New Citizen” would help “shape public policy” in Ukraine:

“Using technology and media, New Citizen coordinates the efforts of concerned members of society, reinforcing their ability to shape public policy.

“… With support from Omidyar Network, New Citizen will strengthen its advocacy efforts in order to drive greater transparency and engage citizens on issues of importance to them.”

In March 2012, Rybachuk — the operator behind the 2004 Orange Revolution scenes, the Anatoly Chubais of Ukraine — boasted that he was preparing a new Orange Revolution:

“People are not afraid. We now have 150 NGOs in all the major cities in our ‘clean up Parliament campaign’ to elect and find better parliamentarians….The Orange Revolution was a miracle, a massive peaceful protest that worked. We want to do that again and we think we will.”

Detailed financial records reviewed by Pando (and embedded below) also show Omidyar Network covered costs for the expansion of Rybachuk’s anti-Yanukovych campaign, “Chesno” (“Honestly”), into regional cities including Poltava, Vinnytsia, Zhytomyr, Ternopil, Sumy, and elsewhere, mostly in the Ukrainian-speaking west and center.

* * * *

To understand what it means for Omidyar to fund Oleh Rybachuk, some brief history is necessary. Rybachuk’s background follows a familiar pattern in post-Soviet opportunism: From well-connected KGB intelligence ties, to post-Soviet neoliberal networker.

In the Soviet era, Rybachuk studied in a military languages program half of whose graduates went on to work for the KGB. Rybachuk’s murky overseas posting in India in the late Soviet era further strengthens many suspicions about his Soviet intelligence ties; whatever the case, by Rybachuk’s own account, his close ties to top intelligence figures in the Ukrainian SBU served him well during the Orange Revolution of 2004, when the SBU passed along secret information about vote fraud and assassination plots.

In 1992, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Rybachuk moved to the newly-formed Ukraine Central Bank, heading the foreign relations department under Central Bank chief and future Orange Revolution leader Viktor Yushchenko. In his central bank post, Rybachuk established close friendly ties with western government and financial aid institutions, as well as proto-Omidyar figures like George Soros, who funded many of the NGOs involved in “color revolutions” including small donations to the same Ukraine NGOs that Omidyar backed. (Like Omidyar Network does today, Soros’ charity arms—Open Society and Renaissance Foundation—publicly preached transparency and good government in places like Russia during the Yeltsin years, while Soros’ financial arm speculated on Russian debt and participated in scandal-plagued auctions of state assets.)

In early 2005, Orange Revolution leader Yushchenko became Ukraine’s president, and he appointed Rybachuk deputy prime minister in charge of integrating Ukraine into the EU, NATO, and other western institutions. Rybachuk also pushed for the mass-privatization of Ukraine’s remaining state holdings.

Over the next several years, Rybachuk was shifted around President Yushchenko’s embattled administration, torn by internal divisions. In 2010, Yushchenko lost the presidency to recently-overthrown Viktor Yanukovych, and a year later, Rybachuk was on Omidyar’s and USAID’s payroll, preparing for the next Orange Revolution. As Rybachuk told the Financial Times two years ago:

“We want to do [the Orange Revolution] again and we think we will.”

Some of Omidyar’s funds were specifically earmarked for covering the costs of setting up Rybachuk’s “clean up parliament” NGOs in Ukraine’s regional centers. Shortly after the Euromaidan demonstrations erupted last November, Ukraine’s Interior Ministry opened up a money laundering investigation into Rybachuk’s NGOs, dragging Omidyar’s name into the high-stakes political struggle.

According to a Kyiv Post article on February 10 titled, “Rybachuk: Democracy-promoting nongovernmental organization faces ‘ridiculous’ investigation”:

“Police are investigating Center UA, a public-sector watchdog funded by Western donors, on suspicion of money laundering, the group said. The group’s leader, Oleh Rybachuk, said it appears that authorities, with the probe, are trying to warn other nongovernmental organizations that seek to promote democracy, transparency, free speech and human rights in Ukraine.

“According to Center UA, the Kyiv economic crimes unit of the Interior Ministry started the investigation on Dec. 11. Recently, however, investigators stepped up their efforts, questioning some 200 witnesses.

“… Center UA received more than $500,000 in 2012, according to its annual report for that year, 54 percent of which came from Pact Inc., a project funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development. Nearly 36 percent came from Omidyar Network, a foundation established by eBay founder Pierre Omidyar and his wife. Other donors include the International Renaissance Foundation, whose key funder is billionaire George Soros, and National Endowment for Democracy, funded largely by the U.S. Congress.”

* * * *

What all this adds up to is a journalistic conflict-of-interest of the worst kind: Omidyar working hand-in-glove with US foreign policy agencies to interfere in foreign governments, co-financing regime change with well-known arms of the American empire — while at the same time hiring a growing team of soi-disant ”independent journalists” which vows to investigate the behavior of the US government at home and overseas, and boasts of its uniquely “adversarial” relationship towards these government institutions.

As First Look staffer Jeremy Scahill told the Daily Beast…

We had a long discussion about this internally; about what our position would be if the White House asked us to not publish something…. With us, because we want to be adversarial, they won’t know what bat phone to call. They know who to call at The Times, they know who to call at The Post. With us, who are they going to call? Pierre? Glenn?

Of the many problems that poses, none is more serious than the fact that Omidyar now has the only two people with exclusive access to the complete Snowden NSA cache, Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras. Somehow, the same billionaire who co-financed the “coup” in Ukraine with USAID, also has exclusive access to the NSA secrets—and very few in the independent media dare voice a skeptical word about it.

In the larger sense, this is a problem of 21st century American inequality, of life in a billionaire-dominated era. It is a problem we all have to contend with—PandoDaily’s 18-plus investors include a gaggle of Silicon Valley billionaires like Marc Andreessen (who serves on the board of eBay, chaired by Pierre Omidyar) and Peter Thiel (whose politics I’ve investigated, and described as repugnant.)

But what is more immediately alarming is what makes Omidyar different. Unlike other billionaires, Omidyar has garnered nothing but uncritical, fawning press coverage, particularly from those he has hired. By acquiring a “dream team” of what remains of independent media — Greenwald, Jeremy Scahill, Wheeler, my former partner Matt Taibbi — not to mention press “critics” like Jay Rosen — he buys both silence and fawning press.

Both are incredibly useful: Silence, an absence of journalistic curiosity about Omidyar’s activities overseas and at home, has been purchased for the price of whatever his current all-star indie cast currently costs him. As an added bonus, that same investment buys silence from exponentially larger numbers of desperately underpaid independent journalists hoping to someday be on his payroll, and the underfunded media watchdogs that survive on Omidyar Network grants.

And it also buys laughable fluff from the likes of Scahill who also boasted to the Daily Beast of his boss’ close involvement in the day to day running of First Look.

“[Omidyar] strikes me as always sort of political, but I think that the NSA story and the expanding wars put politics for him into a much more prominent place in his existence. This is not a side project that he is doing. Pierre writes more on our internal messaging than anyone else. And he is not micromanaging. This guy has a vision. And his vision is to confront what he sees as an assault on the privacy of Americans.”

Now Wheeler has her answer — that, yes, the revolutionary groups were part-funded by Uncle Sam, but also by her boss — one assumes awkward follow up questions will be asked on that First Look internal messaging system.

Whether Wheeler, Scahill and their colleagues go on to share their concerns publicly will speak volumes about First Look’s much-trumpeted independence, both from Omidyar’s other business interests and from Omidyar’s co-investors in Ukraine: the US government.

Editor’s note: Pando contacted Omidyar Networks for comment prior to publication but had not received a response by press time. We will update this post if they do respond.

* * * *






Jack:

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Jack is unable to realize that guys like Greenwald can actually be complicated. He's one of these people who thinks, apparently, "HERO? OR TRAITOR?" "BLACK OR WHITE??"

I'm sure Greenwald sees himself as a hero. Yet he's a lawyer, so he's also a self serving shit, like most lawyers. He's got a big ego, and he's found a sugar daddy to pay him for his ego-reinforcing hijacking of Snowden's data dump. He's the keeper of the dump now, so he's making sure he benefits from it WHILE SAVING THE WORLD FROM EVIL.

Grow the fuck up, Jack. And quit being a fucking asshole to EVERYONE YOU DISAGREE WITH. I enjoyed this place once again while you were off holding your breath until you turned blue (undoubtedly waiting for people here to BEG you to return), and I'm sure a lot of others did, too. How it's just dripping with acid again. Your acid. Go away. Again. Do us all a favor.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:59 am

The Nordic persona's constant bullying (which has already preemptively been projected as "bullying" on Nordic) and obsessive focus on "JackRiddler" (not me the poster but a caricature of his imagination) may well succeed in turning this board into an unchallenged bullshit lake read by Nordic and six sycophants, five of which may be personas from the same software set. He is aided in his trolling on the truth by those who will misrepresent any response as disallowable personal trolling, or make some false equivalence of everyone who happens to say something that sounds mean. Very early in this series of exchanges, before I said various supposedly terrible things, I tried to get moderation to do something about Nordic's obsessive stalking of me.

If every post he hits, on any subject, is not given for commentary, but merely as a prelude to name-calling and attacks on his personal image of me (once again, he has presented this image of "JackRiddler" as a little girl -- this is the guy who thinks he's fighting bullies and defending women all the time), of course it eventually becomes too much of a time-suck for a mere human individual (unaided by a software package) to respond. For example, note how the posting of an interesting article from pando linking Omidyar to the funding of an NGO involved in the Ukrainian mess is set up entirely as the prelude to some supposed challenge to me. No commentary is possible for me on this article on this thread that won't be interpreted as a supposed defense of Omidyar (who will eventually be presented as my employer) or as a complete capitulation to Nordic's views, which in this case are defined simply in opposition to whatever Nordic imagines mine are. Given his choice of sexist tropes, I will either be again be a "pussy" or else have become "his bitch." (Another preemptive projection here is how this character with extreme good/evil moral dichotomies, a walking set of false equivalencies, has now defined me as the one who lacks the ability to see shades of grey!)

So a couple of weeks ago, I took a break because I was too busy with fun activities in real life to manage the multi-persona attack on me. All this meant to the Nordic character was an opportunity to write a novel (over several threads) about the presumed true reasons for my break (that he was the big ooga-ooga winner, and I was a girl again, a "pussy," which is the worst thing a manly man like Nordic thinks one can be). A little chorus of hand-wringers have attached themselves to the cause of hitting me, and it will work. If I take another break, announced or otherwise, Nordic will again use my absence to celebrate he's had some giant victory in an argument he made up with me, as a result of which I'm somewhere crying -- like a little girl -- because he's such a grand big dick. He will get his caricature to vilify, and my absence will serve as confirmatory evidence.

On the whole the way WR stepped out of this was a lot smarter.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:59 am

Ah hell.

Please.

I had really been hoping to stay out of this thread/these threads, but it is ugly to see how things are developing here, or rather deteriorating. There's something wilful about it, and also something grimly male. To the bitter end.

Image
Two hammers, two nails.

Jack, your parodic first post in this thread was typically brilliant (I've always thought you're the best writer on a forum that's never been short of good writers), but I wish you had refrained from posting it here & now at RI and posted it elsewhere instead. Wasn't the OP itself proof enough that your efforts in the Edmonds/Greenwald thread had not been without effect? And that Nordic is far from incapable of revising his opinions (or more accurately in this case: his misgivings) as new evidence comes in? So why gloat? Nordic, you're someone else whose posts & presence here I've always liked and respected, but I wish you could have refrained from rising to the bait. (I thought you had, for a day or so.) Because that bait was hardly really poisonous, was it? And at least a passing acknowledgement of your change-of-tack after your own Edmonds/Greenwald thread would surely not have gone amiss.

Please, both of you, step away from the keyboard for a while -- but not (for godsake) for ever, or any of that operatic stuff. (I really hope WR's absence is only temporary.) It is such a waste of talent and energy that you must know is better directed elsewhere. In 2014, it's not as if there's any shortage of real and dangerous enemies about, or any shortage of truly evil bastards, or any shortage of real fights really worth fighting.

Image

- Feel free, of course, to ignore all this completely. Or to say, "Fuck off, you sanctimonious arsehole, who are you to talk?" That would certainly keep this thread, and the board, firmly on course for the iceberg.

[Insert here: your own picture of an iceberg]
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of inter

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:16 pm

I would appreciate the locking of this thread and any other wherein this argument has continued. Enough already!

I suggest to those emotionally invested in this battle of personalities to begin each day as a new opportunity to grow, not to disparage another so severely because of they feel differently than you.

Nordic, you should be aware you've offended many with your misogynistic name-calling. You should know better. And no one should let that ride.

You folk are carrying umbrellas today to keep you dry from yesterday's rain.

Be here now, be in this moment, not lost in yesterday's anger. Today you can pleasant. Only you can choose how you relate or react or respond to the words of another.


Edited to add, Mac, you posted as I was composing, but I agree with you.
Jack, let it go. I too raised the possibility that Greenwald and Sylvia were playing both sides, or one more than the other. Only they know their true purpose and the reasons for their actions or inaction.
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