"15 Years Later": Europhysics News prints 9/11 CD article

[Luther Blissett]

I thought it had been delivered or removed out of the underground parking lot of either WTC 1 or 2 very early that morning.

[Harvey]

Frank Carlucci was Chairman of the Carlyle Group 1992–2003 and Donald Rumsfelds college room mate.

Donald Rumsfeld

Paul Wolfowitz

Dick Cheney

If there's a deliberate and central significance to them in the choice of date, it is very likely to be 11th September, 1973. Unlike Guatemala, Indonesia and Suharto et al, all the above were actually there in the halls of power, which must have had a significant impact upon them. I'm sure you guys know of many others who were around then and in 2001.

All were either directly involved in or were aware of through their office, various military coups and political assassinations possibly including Chile. All sharing the same loose ideological lineage, from Hayek to Strauss to Friedman. May be a useful and accurate supporting argument on top of everything else...

[dada]

I'm assuming now that the anniversary is over, this thread will fall off the front page of the board.

As it has already fallen off topic anyway, into symbolism and the usual suspects, I hope it's alright if I add some thoughts .

Specifically about this 'the falling towers as a ritual for stopping time,' 'we're stuck in a time-loop' thing.

What time has stopped? There's clock time, which is obviously moving. The clocks haven't stopped. There's natural time -hearts beating, planets spinning, etc- that hasn't stopped. Then there's psychological time. The subjective perception of time. If anything, that would be the time that has been 'stuck' or is running 'in a loop.'

Is psychological time stopped since the 'ritual of the falling towers,' though? If that were truly stopped, there would be no psychological time. I don't think that would be a bad thing.

I would say the sense that time is stopped, stuck, in a loop, these are all subjective experiences of psychological time. Which is already something we are 'stuck' in, or aren't. If anything, the falling towers haven't stopped time, they've reinforced the awareness of this 'inner' subjective time. I'm trying to say that whether psychological time is stopped or moving forward, we're stuck in time. Stuck is stuck, either way. And when we're stuck in time, the symbolism goes on and on. We're forever 'figuring it out.'

It seems to me that pop-politics and pop-culture running in circles could easily be explained by simpler forces at work. Culture industry capitalizing on nostalgia is a safe bet. Political ideas and images are repackaged. Same for army toys, Japanese robots, comic book superheroes, spaceships and laser guns, wizards and dragons, cartoon characters. Even if the brand names are different (though most aren't) the ideas are the same. Box office hits are remade or repackaged in the same way (By repackaged here, I don't mean 'old movies re-issued.' I mean the same old themes put in new containers). These things aren't aimed at people, they're aimed at consumers. As capitalism speeds up, the system becomes more streamlined, that's all.

The consumer's nostalgia is trying to recapture what it enjoyed, share it with all the new little consumers. Similar to this nostalgia is the desire to go back to a simpler time, the 'pining for better days.' So the culture industry pushes ancient times, represented by their watered down epcot center stylized symbols; Greek gods, roman chariots. Egyptian pyramids, feudal Japan. Mountaintop mystics, witchdoctors in the jungle. Knights, princesses and castles. Pirates, cowboys, kung fu masters. WWII, Victorian balls. Simpler times romanticized, idealized caricatures.

The attack on the world trade center was framed as an attack on 'our way of life.' What was this way of life? Democracy, freedom, 'western values.' That's the frame. What's in the frame is the capitalist system. We must stand for democracy, freedom and western values by supporting the capitalist system. If you don't stand for the capitalist system, you're on the side of the reactionary terrorists. So the system is reinforced, with the poor and working class caught between the two forces. Whatever the point of the towers coming down was in terms of geopolitical strategy, it looks to me like the poor and working class are the ones being attacked.

Meanwhile the poor and working class continue to organize, struggle for better living conditions, fighting against capitalist domination on one side, and reactionary regressive tendencies on the other. Same as always, pretty much. Does this put them on the side of the terrorists? We hope not. Does it put them on the side of capital? We hope not. Is there any other side? Not if you buy into the crafted ideology.

The crafted ideology is sort of like the GIJoe of the 1980s narrative. GIJoe wasn't fighting the cold war in the eighties, believe it or not. He was fighting a terrorist organization. These terrorists didn't have any explicit ideology as far as I remember. They were mostly a faceless army with a general goal of taking over the world. It seems the only requirement to joining the bad guys was to not like GIJoe.

So now I've even fallen off of the off topic discussion. Since I don't expect to get back on track, you probably shouldn't, either.

I'm searching for an article I read recently, a summary of organizing and strike actions around the globe during the last year. But I can't find it. Google is no help. There were a lot. I wanted to point out that people are still organizing in ways big and small. This current is far from being crushed, although to look at the media we might get that impression. Maybe that says something about where we should be putting our focus as independent intellectuals. Building an active (as opposed to reactive) media network against, around, beneath the mainstream/alternative system? I don't know. Just typing out loud, here.

[Novem5er]

Obviously, physical time hasn't stopped, in the sense that electrons still orbit nuclei, the earth still orbits the sun, and the galaxy is still spinning on its axis. Again, interesting that Janus was seen as a god of Time, but he was also attributed the god of votive force that allowed the universe to operate. In that sense, if time stopped then we would all be frozen and that hasn't happened.

So, yes, I'd say it's more of a psychological or cultural time. It's not 100% true, either. Technology is progressing. New ideas are still out there and our culture has certainly shifted to this new online paradigm with Facebook, Twitter, and memes. Things ARE changing, but at the same time, it all feels so familiar. You are right that much of the pop culture is really just packaged content delivered to consumers, BUT consumers are people and they mostly buy what they have an emotional connections towards. People WANT nostalgia. It's a safe buy. Even if the new Ninja Turtle movie sucks, there's a certain satisfaction derived from bringing one's kids to the movie and seeing their oblivious enjoyment (I suppose). The funny thing about this 80's/90's time loop is that it is a CHOICE, and the public is making that choice again and again, even with our politicians. We might deride Hillary Clinton a lot on this board, but the truth is that she still has millions of ardent supporters. Even if they knew the new "movie" is going to suck, they want to go see it for the old-timey feels.

The crafted ideology is sort of like the GIJoe of the 1980s narrative. GIJoe wasn't fighting the cold war in the eighties, believe it or not. He was fighting a terrorist organization. These terrorists didn't have any explicit ideology as far as I remember. They were mostly a faceless army with a general goal of taking over the world. It seems the only requirement to joining the bad guys was to not like GIJoe.

Funny, that. It's funny how comfortable the American public is with perpetually fighting a faceless, Middle Eastern terrorist organization. COBRA = Al Queda = ISIS. Cobras, as a snake, inhabit mostly Africa and Southern Asia. Of the desert-dwelling species, people most often think of the Egyptian Cobra, which is strongly associated with deserts and the mid-east (though not native outside of Africa). The latest incarnation of the faceless terrorists is ISIS, a western-created name with association to an Egyptian goddess. It's not a great leap of imagination for the public to substitute an Egyptian snake for an Egyptian goddess. Go JOE!

Yet, I do agree with you, dadda, that the time-loop idea is not 100% concrete and it can't be applied to every situation. There is plenty of evidence of human progress, even if the official narrative and approved culture seems intent on halting it - which I think was entirely the point.

[dada]

I should add that I appreciate the thought you put into that post, Novem5er. It got me thinking. I even spent some time looking up Janus yesterday.

What I was trying to get at is that I think psychological time is a subjective sense of time. I'm already 'stuck' in it, whether it's moving forward, stopped, or going around in a circle. And if I'm not stuck, I'm not stuck. I get unstuck when I have insight into its subjective nature.


"Funny, that. It's funny how comfortable the American public is with perpetually fighting a faceless, Middle Eastern terrorist organization. COBRA = Al Queda = ISIS. Cobras, as a snake, inhabit mostly Africa and Southern Asia. Of the desert-dwelling species, people most often think of the Egyptian Cobra, which is strongly associated with deserts and the mid-east (though not native outside of Africa). The latest incarnation of the faceless terrorists is ISIS, a western-created name with association to an Egyptian goddess. It's not a great leap of imagination for the public to substitute an Egyptian snake for an Egyptian goddess. Go JOE!"


I agree with this. I also think another aspect of the genius of the COBRA organization as a foil for GIJoe lies in its vagueness. It's the snake in the desert, but it's also sophisticated, hi-tech. It could be communist, socialist, it could be a brainwashed cult. There's a dictator-like commander. Some of the few that aren't faceless are the dirty arms dealer, and the corporate executives that have their own private army. That gang of rotten Australian anarchist punks. There was that one guy with the metal arm that I think was supposed to be an old nazi. And of course the evil ninja.

COBRA is kind of an umbrella that covers anyone or anything that isn't part of the fun-loving, wise-cracking special forces team.

I always thought the COBRA organization was pretty cool. Wonder what that says about me! haha

[Novem5er]

Thanks for the props. I thought about writing it all out, but people's eyes tend to glaze over during real long posts, and I thought some visual cues would go along way. It's not a perfect universal theory of everything, but its an idea none the less.

I like what you said about getting oneself "unstuck" by gaining insight. I think that's exactly it. I think people all over the world are trying to do exactly that, whether its the organized labor strikes you mentioned, individual research into High Weirdness, or even just un-plugging from media and living more in the moment. If 9/11 was a ritual to get us stuck in time (so whomever could do something nefarious without us really noticing or caring), then I think we are stuck by choice, even if its an unconscious choice by most people.

About COBRA, its interesting that it might have had a Middle Eastern flair to it in some regards, but most of the characters were decidedly not of Middle Eastern descent. They mixed in villains of all nationalities and stereotypes. Yes, it seems the only requirement for joining was a hatred of GI Joe!

Consider the recent revelations about ISIS recruiting; how most of their new recruits know very little about Islam. This could be Western propaganda, of course, but taken at face value it paints a picture of new Islamists joining up more out of a hatred of the West than out of a reverence for any religion or ideology. Back to 9/11, the "hijackers" weren't particularly devout in any way that evidence can provide, but a few of them at least signed up for a suicide mission even if the others weren't full on-board with the plan.

It's interesting, too, that Al Queda translates into The Base, if I remember correctly. What's an evil, international organization of bad guys without a Secret Base, huh? ISIS in ancient Egyptian meant throne, I've read. Back to COBRA, it's interesting, too that the letters in ISIS certainly are reminiscent of straight and curled snakes, and to speak the word is almost to hiss. Funny, huh?

[Nordic]

Time stopped the way time stops for the victims of trauma. It's said in psychotherapy that time is meaningless. When you're trying to process something that has happened to you, time doesn't move forward until you process it and figure it out.

PTSD victims ecperirnce this all the time. In fact that might be the definition of PTSD. You mentally relive events as if they're happening all over again.

Almost all of us were on some level traumatized that day AND THAYS WHY THEY DID IT. They knew damn well that every year when we all "mourned" it, that was their ticket for another year of revenge porn. It's gonna keep going on and on until those that experienced it are all dead, or a huge expose comes out revealing who really did it. And as with the 28 Pages thing, they're going to use every trick in the book to keep our noses pointed at Ground Zero instead of everywhere else.

This year the whole thing is starting to really piss me off. Like, get over it you pansy-ass babies, it's not like any of us are living in Aleppo. It really wasn't that big a deal especially considering the fucking death we rain down on people constantly and forever. We just talked about how many fucking bombs we dropped on Laos. Laos! It doesn't even have a name. "the Laos War" is not in our lexicon. How about the 2 cities we nuked? How about the million plus we murdered in Iraq?? 9/11 was NOTHING compared to any of that.

[OP ED]

It was psychological time I was discussing. I see the attack as spectacle combined with trauma based mind control. The intention being the creation of a, for lack of better terminology, super-alter that compartmentalizes the negative effects of the intentionally open ended abstract "war" to follow. A supranational dissociative state. These techniques when applied to individuals are rarely if ever absolutely achieved so it shouldn't be surprising that it can never be wholly successful on such a grand scale.

(I said it was sorcery, not that it was particularly skillful sorcery. Particularly skillful sorcerers wouldn't be so obsessed with such petty and frankly unimaginative goals. Personally, if I possessed their meat world purely physical resources, I would be retired on Mars by now)

I rather think of it as an attempt to, er, hijack a moment in time and then to further attempt to literally inhabit this alternative reality that continues sideways to our own consensus base.

I don't personally link repetitive popular culture memes and such as being necessarily related.

[Grizzly]

^^^ That's it:
AMerica a brainwashed cult.

That's ok boy,* we have a solution for that too, re-education;

https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/com ... targeting/

A Google-incubated program that has been targeting potential ISIS members with deradicalizing content will soon be used to target violent right-wing extremists in North America, a designer of the program said at an event at the Brookings Institution on Wednesday.

*spoken in a Pink Floyd English chap, kinda way

[dada]

I see the collective trauma angle, this supra-national disassociative state thing. I don't know what to do about it.

I think an individual can become free of psychological time by having sudden insight. Not to say one won't wake up grumpy, filled with unbidden thoughts and surging emotions. The insight is still there, though. The rest is just like echoes. Nothing a cup of coffee and a cigarette can't dispel.

I think that may work for other individuals, but I have no way of helping to bring it about in other individuals. So there's definitely no way I can do anything about it collectively. I wonder if a big expose could even do it. I have to say I'm doubtful anything could.

Actually, something could. The next big trauma. The bs ufo thing, brought to us by the black budget, coming soon to theaters everywhere. Let's take bets. I predict April 2021.

[backtoiam]

What a trip. I don't when it will start but someday it will probably be so pounded into the human psyche it might be like this:

"Lets go hiking in the Mountains this weekend."

"Can't. What are you crazy? Alien threat code for that area is red starting this weekend and goes all next week. Didn't you hear about those people getting laser zapped up there? Vaporized, totally vaporized I tell ya, nothing left but shoes and teeth."

[OP ED]

I should be so lucky. Even fake aliens would be the best thing that ever happened to me.

[Novem5er]

Time stopped the way time stops for the victims of trauma. It's said in psychotherapy that time is meaningless. When you're trying to process something that has happened to you, time doesn't move forward until you process it and figure it out.

PTSD victims ecperirnce this all the time. In fact that might be the definition of PTSD. You mentally relive events as if they're happening all over again.

Almost all of us were on some level traumatized that day AND THAYS WHY THEY DID IT. They knew damn well that every year when we all "mourned" it, that was their ticket for another year of revenge porn. It's gonna keep going on and on until those that experienced it are all dead, or a huge expose comes out revealing who really did it. And as with the 28 Pages thing, they're going to use every trick in the book to keep our noses pointed at Ground Zero instead of everywhere else.

This year the whole thing is starting to really piss me off. Like, get over it you pansy-ass babies, it's not like any of us are living in Aleppo. It really wasn't that big a deal especially considering the fucking death we rain down on people constantly and forever. We just talked about how many fucking bombs we dropped on Laos. Laos! It doesn't even have a name. "the Laos War" is not in our lexicon. How about the 2 cities we nuked? How about the million plus we murdered in Iraq?? 9/11 was NOTHING compared to any of that.

I've said the same thing to a lot of my friends and family over the years; that America (and perhaps the world) experienced a trauma, and much of us probably have a level of PTSD. I certainly have felt it over the years; just a rush of anxiety when the topic comes up or images. It actually strange, but for many many years I've had a habit of catching the clock at 11:11 for no reason. I don't find any significance to that other than on my digital clocks the time looks like the two towers, but it's weird how so many times this last decade I've had a weird moment (an idea, a conversation, a commercial on TV, or something that struck me as odd) only to look up and laugh "of course" it's 11:11. Weird.

Back to PTSD. I have it for real, this time . . . due to the murder of my mother-in-law 23 months ago. I wasn't there when it happened, thank god, but I was front and center in dealing with the surviving family over the next 24 hours. My wife's screams in the street, her grandfather's breakdown at the dinner table (why was I the one to tell him?!), and her brother's wailing for mommy . . .oh, yes, that has stuck with me, replaying again and again for 23 months. Not only that, but the work environment that I was in when I went through it all has become unbearable. It's like living it again and again. I've had to quit two teaching positions because I couldn't handle that environment in conjunction with what we went through. It's all too familiar and painful.

One final kicker about PTSD and September 11th . . . and it's a good one for me. Three weeks ago when I was in court and the killer finally agreed to a plea (2nd degree and 40 years in prison), the lawyers and judge went through all the legalese and a final reminder crept up. The case number that's been haunting us these last 23 months?

XXXXXX911.

Funny, that.

[OP ED]

I think the cannabinoids helped me avoid a lot of that. I also haven't watched television in several (7? 8? 9?) years and I am certain this helps as well. Also witnessing it as a spectacle at the time probably deadened the desired effect. It was too well designed.

[NeonLX]

I think the cannabinoids helped me avoid a lot of that. I also haven't watched television in several (7? 8? 9?) years and I am certain this helps as well. Also witnessing it as a spectacle at the time probably deadened the desired effect. It was too well designed.

Well, I'm game for the cannabinoids. If only I could find some.