"They have vacated the world of reason"

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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:53 pm

I believe that's the nut of it all, including the explanation for why "they" have vacated the world of reason. Since Kennedy, our military and intelligence agencies have owned the Oval Office.

Although manipulation of the minds of the populace by government agency predates this event, what has come after has been several extraordinary psychological social conditioning experiments, some independent and some cojoined in purpose, and exercised through every media and through other much more direct means. (I feel like I'm about to channel Hugh) Whose propaganda is it?

And we argue which is the better candidate, and why, as though the overall agenda will change this time. I engaged too, so I'm not immune. It's all a devious game with winners and losers, haves and have nots, targets and players. I personally feel Trump is mad as a hatter and his policies ultimately dangerous to public safety here and abroad, but that's not my point.

Hundreds of US Marines now have boots on the ground in Syria yet we still here, "Hillary's so dangerous!" and what a really nice guy Donald is when you get to know him up close and all personal like.

Smoke and Mirrors.

Anything to keep the focus off the real culprits, terrorists all. Who killed Kennedy? Who's making your life a hell and for whom are they doing it for?

Who profits from war and domestic chaos? What is their market and how do they as capitalists grow it?

More than 50% of or budget is military spending. There is a call to greatly increase military spending above this extraordinary figure. We need our own money to fix our road and schools, to care for our ill and disabled, with warm shelter and food for all.

Yell all you want about how fixed the game is, but please don't take your eyes off the prize. It's your for the taking.

( I hope that's not too disjointed to read. )
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby kelley » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:37 am

two weeks ago i was in ho chi minh city, sitting in a makeshift cafe drinking iced coffee chased with green tea, while the slow drip of the stainless phin rig asked i refocus my attention.

yesterday i was back in brooklyn, asking for the usual americano and drinking a glass of iced water while the deluxe italian machine on the counter hissed i get my cup and move on.

last night i couldn't help thinking, over and over, ‘garbage in, garbage out’, while understanding that’s such an inadequate mantra on a million different levels.

we're at a tipping point, as subjects, as culture, as species, as other. any reasonable human being-- and there are alot of them out there-- understands this. i hope that's a small victory for, uh, reason.
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby SonicG » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:03 am

kelley » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:37 pm wrote:two weeks ago i was in ho chi minh city, sitting in a makeshift cafe drinking iced coffee chased with green tea, while the slow drip of the stainless phin rig asked i refocus my attention.

yesterday i was back in brooklyn, asking for the usual americano and drinking a glass of iced water while the deluxe italian rig on the counter hissed i get my cup and move on.

last night i couldn't help thinking, over and over, ‘garbage in, garbage out’, while understanding that’s such an inadequate mantra on a million different levels.

we're at a tipping point, as subjects, as culture, as species, as other. any reasonable human being-- and there are alot of them out there-- understands this. i hope that's a small victory for, uh, reason.


ohhh...I live in HCMC...Traveling? Would have love an RI IRL meetup! :(
But...what exactly is your point? Are we at a tipping point? Or are we just more aware that we, as a species, as an individual, are always at a tipping point...if we so choose...
"a poiminint tidal wave in a notion of dynamite"
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:16 pm

The tipping point has been tipped. 405.92ppmC.

Nice writing, kelley.

Always look at the bright side of life...

no matter what.
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Grizzly » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:36 am

Has Nordic vacated this thread?...lol
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:40 am

Grizzly » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:36 am wrote:Has Nordic vacated this thread?...lol


Back at it in ~5 days.
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Cordelia » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:56 am

Hey Nordic, while you're on sabbatical, can you check out any new & sophisticated t.v mini-series, (along the line of 'The Fall', or 'The Night Of', eventually hopefully, available on Netflix/dvd)? Your opinions always appreciated. :thumbsup
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby 82_28 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:04 pm

Cordelia » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:56 am wrote:Hey Nordic, while you're on sabbatical, can you check out any new & sophisticated t.v mini-series, (along the line of 'The Fall', or 'The Night Of', eventually hopefully, available on Netflix/dvd)? Your opinions always appreciated. :thumbsup


He's still churning away on FB. He's always putting up good links. I think people take things too personal here, which is a bummer. Other than the maco person who told me I write like a woman when I told his azz his flat Earth shit was well. . ., I have never had no prollem wit nobody. For some reason that thread really pissed me off. Namely, I hate pseudo science with a passion. Into out there shit for sure. But when it comes to science, forget about it. One thing is for sure, Nordic does not want to torrent or "steal" the shows -- I am anti DRM. I just may torrent those once you tell me what they are about. I guess I could just look them up. :bigsmile
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:36 pm

Deutschland 83, if you haven't yet. (Subtitles.)
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Cordelia » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:33 pm

^^^
Thanks! Netflix even has Season One dvds available. Subtitles always welcomed.
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby liminalOyster » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:39 am

Why Brexit Is Best for Britain: The Left-Wing Case
By ALAN JOHNSONMARCH 28, 2017

European Union leaders marked the 60th anniversary this month in Rome of the bloc’s founding. Credit Andreas Solaro/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
LONDON — On Wednesday, Britain’s prime minister, Theresa May, is to deliver a letter to the president of the European Council, Donald Tusk, informing him that after 44 years of membership, her nation is leaving the European Union. Approximately two years later, after negotiating the terms of that departure, the union will lose at a stroke “an eighth of its population, a sixth of its G.D.P., half its nuclear-arms cache and a seat on the U.N. Security Council,” as Susan Watkins, the editor of New Left Review, noted recently.

Ms. Watkins is a “Lexiteer,” as left-wing supporters of ‘Brexit’ like me are known. We were hardly a significant force among the 52 percent of Britons who voted to leave in the referendum of June 23. But we were an influence. A counterweight to the anti-immigrant fear mongering of the former leader of the right-wing U.K. Independence Party, Nigel Farage, Lexiteers argued a left-wing, democratic and internationalist case for Brexit. The position was expressed crisply by Perry Anderson, the former longtime editor of New Left Review: “The E.U. is now widely seen for what it has become: an oligarchic structure, riddled with corruption, built on a denial of any sort of popular sovereignty, enforcing a bitter economic regime of privilege for the few and duress for the many.”

Although Lexiteers have little patience for the national nihilism of “Davos Man,” the globalist elite, we are no xenophobes. We voted Leave because we believe it is essential to preserve the two things we value most: a democratic political system and a social-democratic society. We fear that the European Union’s authoritarian project of neoliberal integration is a breeding ground for the far right. By sealing off so much policy, including the imposition of long-term austerity measures and mass immigration, from the democratic process, the union has broken the contract between mainstream national politicians and their voters. This has opened the door to right-wing populists who claim to represent “the people,” already angry at austerity, against the immigrant.

It was the free-market economist Friedrich Hayek, the intellectual architect of neoliberalism, who called in 1939 for “interstate federalism” in Europe to prevent voters from using democracy to interfere with the operation of the free market. Simply put, as Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission (the union’s executive body), did: “There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties.”

The union’s structures and treaties are designed accordingly. The European Commission is appointed, not elected, and it is proudly unaccountable to any electorate. “We don’t change our position according to elections” was how the commission’s vice president Jyrki Katainen greeted the victory of the anti-austerity party Syriza in Greece in 2015.

The European Parliament is not a real parliament. It is not a legislature; its deputies neither offer manifestoes nor carry out the ideas they propose to voters. Elections in improbably large constituencies, with pitifully low turnouts, change nothing. As a Parliament staff member said at the European Research Seminar at the London School of Economics, “The only people who listen to M.E.P.s are the interpreters,” referring to the members of the Parliament.

The European Council, an intergovernmental body where decisive legislative power actually lies, especially for Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, comprises member countries’ heads of state, who generally meet just four times a year. They are not directly elected by the inhabitants of the nations whose fate they decide. As for the union principle of “subsidiarity,” a supposed preference for decentralized governance, it is ignored in all practical matters.

The wishes of electorates are regularly brushed aside. When, in 2005, a proposed European Constitution was rejected by voters in France and the Netherlands (most governments did not even allow a vote), this meant nothing to the proponents of the European Project. A few cosmetic tweaks, and the constitution was imposed anyway; only then, it was called the Lisbon Treaty. (Ireland, the only state to allow a referendum on the treaty, voted against it. So Ireland was told to vote again until it got it right. That’s democracy, European Union-style.)

Whatever the union could have been, since the 1980s it has made neoliberal economics an integral part of the project. By doing so, the union transformed itself into what the German sociologist Wolfgang Streeck has called “a powerful engine of liberalization in the service of a deep economistic restructuring of social life.” The single market, the Maastricht Treaty, the single currency and the Stability and Growth Pact combined to impose policies of deregulation, privatization, anti-labor rules, regressive tax regimes, cuts to welfare and financialization, and put them beyond the will of the people.

Noting that the tools of Keynesian economics, upon which social democracy relies, are now illegal in Europe, even The Economist got queasy, writing that this arrangement “feels politically very dodgy.” As for the European Union-United States trade deal, the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, it reads like Hayek’s midcentury fantasy come to life, potentially empowering corporations to sue elected governments for daring to listen to what their electors want.

Another key institution of the neoliberal union is the European Central Bank. Unelected and unaccountable, the bank’s governors are committed by treaty to favor deflation over growth, to prohibit state aid to stricken industries and to enforce austerity measures. Likewise, the single currency acts as an economic chokehold on entire regions of Europe, which can neither devalue their currency (as sovereign nations can) to become competitive nor grow their way out of stagnation because they are forced by austerity to shrink their economy.

The human cost has been grotesque. The European Union’s economic waterboarding of Greece resulted in a quarter cut from hospital budgets and spending on drugs halved, while rates of H.I.V. infection spiked, cases of major depression doubled, suicide attempts rose by one-third, and the number of stillborn babies rose by 21 percent. Four in 10 Greek children were pushed into poverty, and one survey estimated that 54 percent of Greeks have become undernourished. Philippe Legrain, a former adviser to Manuel Barroso, then the president of the European Commission, observed that as “Europe’s creditor in chief” Germany “has trampled over values like democracy and national sovereignty and left a vassal state in its wake.”

In extremis, elected national governments are effectively forced out and replaced by compliant technocrats, as George Papandreou of Greece and Silvio Berlusconi of Italy discovered. Sitting atop it all is the European Court of Justice, which issued rulings that the workers’ right to strike was subordinate to employers’ right do business freely. Hayek must be smiling.

Though the Leave slogan was mocked, Brexit really was about “taking back control.” Democracy needs a demos, a people for whom government is of, by and for. Without one, all you have is inter-elite management, treaty law and money grubbing. But how will “the people” be constructed? Politics will decide. A left populism will not seek to define the people as the far right does, in opposition to the immigrant other, but in opposition to those powerful neoliberal elites that are no longer able, as Professor Streeck says, “to build a social framework around the hot core of capitalist profit making.”

It has been a colossal error by Davos Man left-wingers to think of nation-states as embarrassing anachronisms hostile to democracy. Far from being a threat to democracy, the nation-state is the only stable underpinning we have yet devised to sustain the commitments, sacrifices and levels of social trust that a democracy and a welfare state require.

Right now, the left in Europe is playing by someone else’s rule book in a rigged game. One part of each nation, the winners, have been “using the globalized world as their extended playing field,” as Professor Streeck put it. One, if not the only, meaning of Brexit is that, having lost faith in glib promises of a globalization for all, the other part of the nation — the losers, the shutout and the disdained — have decided, in desperation, to make a sovereign gesture: to change the rules by returning to nation-state politics in order to have a go at leveling things up. They are “seeking refuge,” in Professor Streeck’s words, in “democratic protection, popular rule, local autonomy, collective goods and egalitarian traditions.”

Rather than leave the field to the nativist right, some of us on the democratic left are going with them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/28/opini ... -case.html
"It's not rocket surgery." - Elvis
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby kool maudit » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:42 am

An ambivalent cheer for the newest neoliberals from the FT...

funny ol' world, innit?

The menace of populism has made the tribal left think again

Enemies of capitalism and the US are now seeing the virtue of the liberal order

https://www.ft.com/content/13a06188-0fc ... ba212dce4d

If an investment bank threatened to move staff out of Britain in normal political times, the left would drive them to the airport, bundle them on to the plane and arrange a transfer at the other end. The enemies of rootless capital now cite such threats as prima facie evidence against Brexit. Even Goldman Sachs, the cartoon villain of high finance, can count on Labour MPs, and not just Blairite ones, to rue its relocation of workers to Frankfurt and Paris.

This sudden concern for the City of London is only strange until you remember what else the left has come to cherish of late, spurred by the realisation that populists do not. An unexhaustive list includes the European single market, free trade, Nato, America’s role as guarantor of world peace and, ever since President Donald Trump questioned their work, intelligence agencies.

All of these things used to be taken for granted or held in suspicion by the broad, “soft” left, the people who — to define our terms — constitute received opinion in the arts, academia and newer intakes of the Parliamentary Labour party. The kind of people who wished that Tony Blair had run a less martial, business-friendly premiership but, for the most part, resist the unelectable pacifist-socialism of Jeremy Corbyn, his heir but two as Labour leader.

There is no shame in the positions they have come to in recent months, which amount to many people’s idea of the blandest common sense. The shame is what it took to get them there: nothing less than the electoral shocks of 2016, the sense of encircling menace to a liberal order they now realise is not just a rightwing stitch-up and the reasonable hunch that whatever is opposed by Mr Trump and the wilder edges of the Eurosceptic movement deserves protection.

Last year turned out to be an intellectual audit of the left. It exposed what really matters to them and led to a reordering of their priorities, even if they seem only half-aware of the fact. People who hated bankers after the crash now recognise them as enthusiasts for open internationalism. Those who sided with Edward Snowden and other whistleblowers, for reasons that sometimes verged on counterculture, now appreciate the integrity and professionalism of the security state. Sceptics of globalisation feel queasy to be on the same side as Stephen Bannon, the Trump adviser who favours a “nation with a culture” over a market economy porous to foreign capital. The kind of person who might have decorated a London dinner party with some asinine jibe at the “world policeman” a few years ago now fears the eclipse of Pax Americana.

It is the last of these conversions — deathbed conversions, perhaps, given the electoral predicament of the western left — that should have come much, much earlier.

Europe’s recovery was not inevitable after 1945. America had to design a rules-based order at Bretton Woods, pump-prime it with the Marshall Plan and secure it with military commitments. Generations of American taxpayers have looked at their wage slips in the knowledge that some share of the deductions fund the safety of other peoples. “Enlightened self-interest” does no justice to their forbearance. For this, America’s reward from some (by no means all) European progressives has been low-level resentment and an impugning of motives. Criticism of real follies — Vietnam, Iraq — became a generalised sneer at the crassness and presumption of the new empire.

Now, faced with a nativist in the White House, so sure his nation has been on the sucker’s end of the postwar deal, that he tables an actual paper invoice for services rendered by Nato to the German government, the left worries that America is in strategic retreat from the world.

If they have come around to the idea of a trading system underwritten by a flawed but well-intentioned hegemon, they have come around late. At least it teaches us a thing about politics. Most people do not work out their views through great deliberation and then join the corresponding tribe, they join a tribe and then go along with the corresponding views. We are social before we are political. We pick a team.

Last year confronted the left with populists who, while clearly the enemy, espoused opinions that were not light years away from their own. The same suspicion of markets and “globalism”, the same vision of an America that knows its place. Forced to choose between tribe and substance, they chose tribe. They evolved new views. They are now among the hardiest defenders of things they were arch or hostile towards until 2016. Perhaps it is rude to question how someone arrives in the right place as long as they arrive in the right place.
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby liminalOyster » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:07 pm

Ellis is a has-been but this seems a relevant signpost nonetheless.

Bret Easton Ellis: Barbra Streisand, Lena Dunham Shouldn’t Blame Trump for Their Own ‘Neuroses’
Ellis says “childish meltdowns” by liberals are ruining his dinners out and even hurting his relationship with his boyfriend

Bret Easton Ellis says “childish meltdowns” by Hollywood liberals who still can’t accept Donald Trump’s win are ruining his dinners out with friends — and even hurting his relationship with his boyfriend.

In a 35-minute monologue on his latest podcast, the “American Psycho” author says coastal elites who embrace the anti-Trump “resistance” are testing his patience. He talked about a ruined night out at Spago’s, and another dinner spoiled by a millionaire who was furious about “patriarchy.” He also called out Lena Dunham, Barbra Streisand and Meryl Streep.

“You can dislike the fact that Trump was elected, yes, definitely, and yet still understand and accept ultimately that he was elected this time around. Or you can have a complete mental and emotional collapse and let the Trump presidency define you, which I think is absurd. … If you are still losing your s— about Trump, I think you should probably go to a shrink and not let the bad man that was elected define your self-victimization and your life. You are letting him win.”

“Barbra Streisand says she’s gaining weight because of Trump. Lena Dunham says she’s losing weight because of Trump. Really? You’re blaming the president for your own problems and neuroses?” Ellis said.

He also wondered why Meryl Streep used her Golden Globe speech in January to talk about Trump.

“Instead of talking about all the filmmakers she had worked with and who had passed away in the last two years — Michael Cimino, Mike Nichols, Nora Ephron, or especially what it was like playing Carrie Fisher in ‘Postcards From the Edge,’ since Fisher had died just two weeks earlier, Streep used this moment to go on an anti-Trump rant for 10 minutes on national TV, instead of eulogizing her friend — again, reinstating the moral superiority of the left and ignoring aesthetics in place of ideology,” Ellis said.

He later added: “For some reason I started thinking about the cost of Meryl Streep’s gown at the Golden Globes and the $30 million apartment she had recently put on the market in Greenwich Village.”

Ellis said one of the “morally superior wealthy people” who ruined a recent dinner with friends by complaining about white male patriarchy lives in a penthouse on the Upper West Side — “and probably has a net worth of $10 million dollars.”

“Liberalism used to be about freedom but now is about a kind of warped moral authority that is actually part of the moral superiority movement. This faction of the left is touchingly now known as ‘The Resistance.’ Oh yes, the resistance. What is this resistance? There are posters all over my neighborhood in West Hollywood urging me to resist, resist, resist,” he said.

“But some of us, who did not vote for Trump, and who located exactly who he was decades ago … some of us have been wondering: Resist what, exactly? And who is telling us to resist whatever? The people who voted for the candidate who lost — I’m supposed to listen to them? Is this a joke? … Well I’m certainly resisting the childish meltdowns I’ve been witnessing at dinners and on social media and on late night TV and too many times in my own home.”

Ellis said his own boyfriend has relapsed into a struggle with opiates since Trump’s rise.

“What was happening to my boyfriend was also reflective of the epidemic of moral superiority that has engulfed and is now destroying, eating alive, the American left. I cannot count the time my boyfriend has left the house since the election his hair long and tousled, he hasn’t shaved in months, and he’s addicted to three things besides opiates: Russian conspiracies discussed on Reddit, Rachel Maddow detailing Russian conspiracies, and Final Fantasy 15,” Ellis said.

The author said he didn’t vote in the presidential election because his state, California, wasn’t in contention. But he stressed that he is no fan of the president, and that Trump was the hero of Patrick Bateman, the sociopathic antihero of “American Psycho.”

“A long time ago in a country far, far away I had made Trump Patrick Bateman’s hero in ‘American Psycho,'” Ellis said. “I had researched the odious business practices, the lying, Roy Cohn as his mentor, the hideous racism. Followed his trajectory. I had done my homework. You do not need to remind me. I know it all.”

Ellis also said Trump and his fellow disruptors are successfully “blowing up fixed ideas about what is presidential and what is not how campaigns should be run or not, how social media should be used to reach voters or not.”

“This is what leveled the press and made them look like some kind of old-school anachronism, unable to understand the new playbook that the disruptors had devised,” Ellis added. “Taking Trump literally was about as useful as complaining about the Kardashians. … The way the press the coverage of this election was an absolute moral disaster for our country.”

Ellis said he did have one dinner that wasn’t ruined recently — a night out in West Hollywood, where he was shocked to learn the entire table was voting for Trump. He said he tweeted about it, and was retweeted thousands of times, including by Trump himself.

“One of the women at that dinner texted me the next day and said she laughed when she saw the tweet. But she also warned: Don’t tell anyone who it is,” Ellis said. “Her business was Hollywood-based, and who knows what could happen in this climate? People were way too hysterical, and it’s just not worth it to defend your beliefs.”

He said the recent dust-ups over conservative sociologist Charles Murray appearing at Middleburg College — and liberal commentator Van Jones’ offering mild recent praise for Trump — show that liberals are going too far to stifle dissent.

“It’s time to get up, pull on your big-boy pants, and have a stiff drink at the bar,” Ellis said. “Because in the end, we share only one country.”

http://www.thewrap.com/bret-easton-elli ... -neuroses/
"It's not rocket surgery." - Elvis
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Rory » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:00 pm

liminalOyster » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:07 pm wrote:Ellis is a has-been but this seems a relevant signpost nonetheless.

“What was happening to my boyfriend was also reflective of the epidemic of moral superiority that has engulfed and is now destroying, eating alive, the American left. I cannot count the time my boyfriend has left the house since the election his hair long and tousled, he hasn’t shaved in months, and he’s addicted to three things besides opiates: Russian conspiracies discussed on Reddit, Rachel Maddow detailing Russian conspiracies, and Final Fantasy 15,” Ellis said.



LoL'ed at that. Seems to be commonplace among a certain cohort
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:10 am

Rory » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:00 pm wrote:
liminalOyster » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:07 pm wrote:Ellis is a has-been but this seems a relevant signpost nonetheless.

“What was happening to my boyfriend was also reflective of the epidemic of moral superiority that has engulfed and is now destroying, eating alive, the American left. I cannot count the time my boyfriend has left the house since the election his hair long and tousled, he hasn’t shaved in months, and he’s addicted to three things besides opiates: Russian conspiracies discussed on Reddit, Rachel Maddow detailing Russian conspiracies, and Final Fantasy 15,” Ellis said.



LoL'ed at that. Seems to be commonplace among a certain cohort


seems to me someone is trying very hard to suppress the truth

seems to me someone should just cut bait

WHY FBI CAN’T TELL ALL ON TRUMP, RUSSIA

Image
http://whowhatwhy.org/2017/03/27/fbi-ca ... mp-russia/


Dave Emory going strong... updates...
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=36920


Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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