The 2012 "Election" thread

[Nordic]

Let me get this straight. Let me get this straight. I shouldn't rag on Obama because REALLY BAD NASTY PEOPLE rag on I shouldn't rag on Obama because REALLY BAD NASTY PEOPLE rag on Obama, but for completely different reasons, in fact FICTIONAL reasons. Obama, but for completely different reasons, in fact FICTIONAL reasons.

Actually, you aren't any different. Your made up reasons are not any more intelligent.

Obviously you are living in a fantasy world.

[Rory]

Just to say a sincere thank you to both of Jack, and C2W: your writing and argument, are two of the best things on this forum. Certainly, the paucity of integrity shown here by the personalized Obama haters should not take away from your ability to still present cogent and honest thought.

And to those who prefer to writhe in the gutter with Michelle Malkin, and the other 'Obama is the worst president ever', GOP pond life; A heartfelt thank you too.

I do have better things to do than throw my 1st world toys out of the pram. This thread is just a vehicle for your impotent rage - to the extent that you cast off any morality. Attacking a fellow poster here because you disagree with them? Have a word - clearly there are some meta issues with your ego and self worth. Privileged, white person, 1st world ego problems. You only care about dead brown children to win arguments. Classy.

So, have the floor. Enjoy your impotence. (and I don't know why you are laughing, Scottsman - propping up the Troika in your little Berlin Bohemia. Taste the Greek sweat going into making your life so rebellious. You have no skin in the game, unlike your potty mouthed baby cadaver fetishist.)

I am out, this time. I hope to fuck there aren't too many Republicans, laughing at how effectively divisive their marketing has been. Well done guys

[Nordic]

And to those who prefer to writhe in the gutter with Michelle Malkin, and the other 'Obama is the worst president ever', GOP pond life; A heartfelt thank you too.

Wow. That is such a stupid fucking argument. Is there any place on planet earth, or anywhere on the interwebs, where you can get away with that kind of horseshit? No, I didn't think so. It only works in your own little brain. Which is stuck in a fantasy world.

I don't like war criminals, I don't care what their name is. Obama. Cheney. Bush. Rumsfeld.

Why you like a few and dislike others doesn't make a lick of sense. But there you go. You rationalize your deep amorality with a double standard worthy of that mass murdering psychopath in Norway.


A hint for you: Obama and Michelle Malkin are on the same team and work for the same people. You might want to figure that out before you go around lecturing people and making yourself look like a complete dumbass.

[Rory]

If it's any consolation - I don't absolve Obama from any guilt. As if I would presume to.

I just hope he is elected on Nov 7th

[Usrename]

I don't like war criminals, I don't care what their name is. Obama. Cheney. Bush. Rumsfeld.

OK genius, explain yourself here. War criminal is a very specific charge.

Under US law this term implies a "grave breach" of the Geneva Conventions.

Make your case. Or are you just throwing around hyperbole using words that you don't understand the meaning of?

[Usrename]

Let me get this straight. Let me get this straight. I shouldn't rag on Obama because REALLY BAD NASTY PEOPLE rag on I shouldn't rag on Obama because REALLY BAD NASTY PEOPLE rag on Obama, but for completely different reasons, in fact FICTIONAL reasons. Obama, but for completely different reasons, in fact FICTIONAL reasons.

Actually, you aren't any different. Your made up reasons are not any more intelligent.

Obviously you are living in a fantasy world.

Make your case or stfu!

Your fantasy is no better than theirs.

[IanEye]

"I was a fascist when Mussolini was on top, and I am an anti-fascist now that he has been deposed.
I was fanatically pro-German when the Germans were here to protect us against the Americans, and now that the Americans are here to protect us against the Germans I am fanatically pro-American.
I can assure you, my outraged young friend, that you and your country will have a no more loyal partisan in Italy than me-but only as long as you remain in Italy."- 107 year old Italian man

"A patriotic flag-waver, is what I am." - Mac Rebennack

[8bitagent]

This is quite a strange thread...in that we're now going to have amnesia and pretend elections are fair and square? It's like when I was a kid and a part of me reallllly believed WWF wrestling matches
were not scripted or pre arranged.

Some of you believe Bush's handlers rigged aspects of the 2000 and possibly 2004 election. Some of you believe elements of the US government had a hand in the events of September 11th. And a zillion other "black ops" things.

Why would these evil doers somehow say "ok ok, we do bad stuff...but honestly, the 2012 election will be totally legit!" If any election needed to be rigged, it's gotta be this one. And yeah, a part of me still has a feeling they may steal the election for Rombie.

Again, I've zero problem with people voting Obama. We've seen the GOP show their true hideous colors, and they keep outdoing themselves as far as fucked up insanity. BUT...
do we have to pretend that the game isn't fixed? We know that voting as a right in America is very serious, and that people suffered and died for that right. Voter disenfranchisement is very real and sickening and is happening right now. When I say "vote noone", it's more out of frustration. But again, I can't help but feel the game is fixed.

First off, we all know wall street wanted Obama to win. I don't think anyone here doubts that. Mccain never had a chance. But I think it's clear this time around a good portion of the financial oligarchs now want Romney to win.
These folks are very good at what they do, and very sneaky. We all can laugh about 'hanging chads', but like a slight of hand magician we know how easily people can be distracted when theft occurs right in front of them.
Point being, the person THEY want in office will be put in office. I don't want to condescend the idea of a will of the people or the RIGHT to vote at all. But at this stage in the game, there can be no margin of error. The elite
have to have their man in.

I also feel there may be a third option they have planned, which would be a thousand times worse than Romney winning November 6th. It'd pretty much signal true horror within America, and a shit hitting the fan sort of fall out.
Y'all know what I mean so I won't even spell it out, but this scenario truly frightens me more than anything because America would truly lose its mind.

Also, PS:
None of us here support or like anything related to the GOP. In fact my hate of the right wing has gotten to the point where it's hard for me to stomach even right leaning parapolitical shows, even if its Libertarian/patriot/etc stuff(sometimes thats worse than mainstream GOP) So can we stop with the insinuating people here are somehow Fox News/Republican stooges? Obama isnt 1/100th the horror show Romney would be.

[Usrename]

Also, PS:
None of us here support or like anything related to the GOP. In fact my hate of the right wing has gotten to the point where it's hard for me to stomach even right leaning parapolitical shows, even if its Libertarian/patriot/etc stuff(sometimes thats worse than mainstream GOP) So can we stop with the insinuating people here are somehow Fox News/Republican stooges? Obama isnt 1/100th the horror show Romney would be.

My only response is that creating this fantastic alternate reality where Obama is a war criminal is no different in practice than what the right wing does in creating their alternate reality where Obama is a communist.

Do you see a difference? If you do, please point it out.

And if what you're hinting about is a "Lincoln/Kennedy solution," then I can't agree with you more. That's a reality-based concern. REALITY!!!!!

[compared2what?]

Also, PS:
None of us here support or like anything related to the GOP. In fact my hate of the right wing has gotten to the point where it's hard for me to stomach even right leaning parapolitical shows, even if its Libertarian/patriot/etc stuff(sometimes thats worse than mainstream GOP) So can we stop with the insinuating people here are somehow Fox News/Republican stooges? Obama isnt 1/100th the horror show Romney would be.

My only response is that creating this fantastic alternate reality where Obama is a war criminal is no different in practice than what the right wing does in creating their alternate reality where Obama is a communist.

They did create it.*** The entire Obama-Is-a-Baby-Killing-Drone-Warrior meme is, literally, right-wing propaganda. I remember when it first started circulating. (Which wasn't all that long ago. Obviously.) It came straight out of the bowels of the revanchist right. And it really couldn't have been clearer that it was a GOP political talking point intended to transfer as much of the left-over popular anger from the Bush/Cheney years as possible onto a Democratic incumbent, as long as they had to put up with him anyway. It still couldn't be.

FWIW, I haven't been trying to imply anything about anyone by pointing that out. It just is what it is..

Do you see a difference? If you do, please point it out.

To be fair, he really is a war criminal. Same as every other American president of the post-war era, with the possible exceptions of....

....

Well. None, that I can think of, on the non-war-criminal side. But relatively speaking, he's more on the Ford/Carter/Clinton side of the scale than the Truman/Eisenhower/Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon/Bush/Bush-Cheney side. I can't decide where to put Reagan.

Anyway. While it's not at all true that his presidency has been unusually distinguished by the kind or amount of war crimes committed by his administration, it has committed them. And that is a difference. Because he's definitely not really a communist.

__________________

Just a free-floating observation here: But fwiw, propagating the drone-war meme helps the GOP obscure a lot more than just the war crimes of their own party. Assuming American-war-crimes-as-usual, whoever came immediately after Bush/Cheney would have had to pursue a similar expedient on the fronts they left open for purely financial reasons. They broke the bank irresponsibly prosecuting their unfunded wars. So tarring and feathering Obama as a drone-crazed baby-killer is kind of a dual-purpose thing.
________________

***ON EDIT: That doesn't mean that everybody who calls a war crime a war crime is necessarily a right-wing operative, in case it needs saying. Glenn Greenwald is obviously objecting from the left, for example. But he doesn't do that OMG-the-monstrous-man-dripping-with-the-blood-of-dead-babies-has-defiled-our-country crypto-racist thing.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

To be fair, he really is a war criminal. Same as every other American president of the post-war era, with the possible exceptions of....

....

Well. None, that I can think of, on the non-war-criminal side.

Just wanted to re-emphasize that crucial piece of information in C2W's response.

It's one thing to make an argument in favor of a vote for Obama as a "lesser" of 2 evils [or any variant justification], but to come to this board and make any attempt to paint Obama as anything OTHER than a LIAR, FRAUD, and CRIMINAL is simply LAUGHABLE.

Go try that elsewhere.

[This is NOT directed at C2W/JR, of course, to avoid any potential confusion].

[barracuda]

a LIAR, FRAUD, and CRIMINAL

This is known in common parlance as "a president".

[Belligerent Savant]

Precisely.

[compared2what?]

.

To be fair, he really is a war criminal. Same as every other American president of the post-war era, with the possible exceptions of....

....

Well. None, that I can think of, on the non-war-criminal side.

Just wanted to re-emphasize that crucial piece of information in C2W's response.

Re-re-emphasized..

[Rory]

WHAT IS WITH ALL THE FUCKING CAPITALIZATION?

Has anyone who hates Obama so bad, got a legitimate argument as to why Romney will be better? (One that they haven't got from the GOP sewer - yes, Nordic - you and Michelle Malkin: Who'd of thunk it? Comrades in hyperbole, eh?)