Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

[JackRiddler]

I'm reacting largely to the 'strange' connections, via the word 'Sandy', which is short for Cassandra, and the fact that it is difficult to believe that there was not more than one shooter;

I'm not sure reacting is the right word for this, as reactions usually come in response to actual things. Sandy in a place name probably refers to a quality of the soil, or a color of the ground. If I was named Cassandra and someone called me Sandy, as a good Greek I'd feel obligated to punch them. (Cassie is aesthetically even less tolerable but I'd have to concede it.) But I googled it and there are a few Cassandras called Sandy. Did you look into the astonishing number of Cassandra Hookses? Maybe you can work them in to this scenario. But what you're missing is that Sandy is short for Sanford, which anyone can see means to point at Sanford Weil, architect of the Citibank-Travellers merger and thus the overturning of Glass-Steagal. Hedge fund managers live in Connecticut. From here I'm sure you can see it's just a step or two further to the jackpot: The Federal Reserve murdered those children. QED.

I'm not very imaginative I guess, because given automatic weapons and a will to murder in an elementary school, I find it very easy to believe there was one shooter. But we can all believe what we like, long as we know nothing.

.

[compared2what?]

But we can all believe what we like, long as we know nothing.

.

And as long as nobody had any power and everybody had autonomy, life would then be practically a utopia relative to what it actually is, even in a world filled with nothing but lupercals on every continent, from coast to coast, as far as the eye could see.

It's quite a cheering thought, really. How about that.

[lupercal]

yet another "Lottery" moment: Newtown state rep. warns shooting victim Gabby Giffords to "stay out of my towns!!"

Giffords visited local officials and Sandy Hook families Friday in meetings that were closed to the press.

http://courantblogs.com/capitol-watch/s ... -stay-out/

p.s. from Florida.

[Iamwhomiam]

^^^^ Most definitely, a manatee out of water. Not pretty at all. Sad, really.

[MacCruiskeen]

But we can all believe what we like, long as we know nothing.

Personally, I do know a few things. I know, for example that we have still been offered no proof whatsoever, no forensic evidence whatsoever, no motive whatsoever, no eyewitness identification whatsoever, in support of the assertion that Adam Lanza Dunnit. And I know, too, that millions of people know, nonetheless, that this shy, sensitive 110-pound vegan boy with no criminal record dunnit (all on his own), and that anyone who even questions whether he dunnit can only be a lunatic.

I also know that he's dead, his mother is dead (though both are routinely omitted from the list of victims), hardly anyone is asking any serious questions, and he'll never have a trial. Meanwhile, an already-depressed population entered the Festive Season even more baffled and disorientated, even more worried about their own and their kids' future, and even more fearful of their neighbours, and therefore even more dependent on distant and anonymous "authorities" who have a vested interest in keeping them precisely that way.

This... I know.

[compared2what?]

But we can all believe what we like, long as we know nothing.

Personally, I do know a few things. I know, for example that we have still been offered no proof whatsoever, no forensic evidence whatsoever, no motive whatsoever, no eyewitness identification whatsoever, in support of the assertion that Adam Lanza Dunnit.

Indisputably true as that may be, it's not even a half-truth as long as it implies that proof, forensic evidence, motive and eyewitness identification are therefore as conclusively absent as one might assume they were if there had never been any indication that they were forthcoming.on the usual schedule for the usual reasons. Which there have been, with the possible exception of motive.

and that anyone who even questions whether he dunnit can only be a lunatic.

Source?

I also know that he's dead, his mother is dead (though both are routinely omitted from the list of victims), hardly anyone is asking any serious questions, and he'll never have a trial. Meanwhile, an already-depressed population entered the Festive Season even more baffled and disorientated, even more worried about their own and their kids' future, and even more fearful of their neighbours, and therefore even more dependent on distant and anonymous "authorities" who have a vested interest in keeping them precisely that way.

I can't speak for the whole population. But personally, I have too much specific pain and sorrow in my life.to waste any of my bafflement or anything else on distant people, irrespective of their abstract quoted qualities. Way too much. Seriously. If it gets any worse, I might even have to start complaining about it or something.

And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on that one. But who knows?

[barracuda]

But we can all believe what we like, long as we know nothing.

Personally, I do know a few things. I know, for example that we have still been offered no proof whatsoever, no forensic evidence whatsoever, no motive whatsoever, no eyewitness identification whatsoever, in support of the assertion that Adam Lanza Dunnit.

It's an epistemological quandary, isn't it? I mean, there's a distinct difference between "no evidence" and "evidence I refuse to accept". For example, according to the police and published reports, there were several eyewitnesses. However, none of them have spoken to me personally, or given publicly available interviews with trustworthy journalists. I'm sort of forced to either accept that in a typical police investigation, the detectives on the case would have spoken to such persons and satisfied themselves that the person they saw corresponded to the actual perpetrator, who was wearing a mask (nice touch), and couldn't be identified by them anyway! And according to investigators, police officers supposedly found Lanza's body with his dead mother's gun nearby, his pockets filled with magazines, earplugs in his ears, dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. But I didn't see that myself, and I haven't seen any high quality, unretouched photographs of his body swathed in black, lying in a pool of blood, his mask removed and his face revealed in such a way that I could definitively identify the person in the picture as the same gaunt and insect-like Adam Lanza the police claim to have committed the murders, whose face has been plastered on the front of every tabloid in the land. (In fact, I have no way of confirming that the picture I've seen of Lanza is truely representative of his features, or is a strange anomaly, or is a picture of him at all. Why should I accept that?) But realistically (let's not kid each other here), there's no photographic evidence that could possibly and conclusively confirm his identity, because such things can be faked, and at this point it's far too long since the event to trust the products of the police state, whose output I wouldn't trust in any case, at all, because they're notorious liars. Where's the high-def, full color video stream of the event? None of the victims had time for a cel phone camera vid that they could email to a trustworthy media outlet? Why haven't police released photos of the victims and the shooter, in situ that have been authenticated by independent experts? Why haven't independent internet journalists been allowed to interview the adult victims in the hospital, or the juvenile survivors? But I guess they could just be actors anyway. Or maybe Tony Hawk, champion skateboarder.

I wasn't there, so you can't prove that it happened. You can't. So it probably didn't. At least certainly not in the way anyone says it did. And any evidence that will be brought forth will never be subjected to the stringent demands of a courtroom legal process. So it won't be real evidence.

On the other hand, how do I know it didn't go down just as the newspapers claim? How do I know he didn't kill his mom, shoot his way in through the school's front door, gun down the principal, and then proceed to the classrooms for further slaughter? There's no way for me to know that he didn't do it either, I guess. It's like a shooting at Schrödinger Elementary, with no way to collapse the waveform, no way to open the box.

I also know that he's dead, his mother is dead

How do you know this? What's your evidence? Oh yeah, you read it on the internet. Sounds highly conclusive. Where's the proof?

[lupercal]

I can't speak for the whole population. But personally, I have too much specific pain and sorrow in my life.to waste any of my bafflement or anything else on distant people, irrespective of their abstract quoted qualities. Way too much. Seriously. If it gets any worse, I might even have to start complaining about it or something.

And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on that one. But who knows?

Oh no, you're not alone. In fact, you're in a famous story! Maybe you've heard it?

"I wish to be left alone," said C2W. "I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned -- they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there."

"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."

"If they would rather die," said C2W, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides -- excuse me -- I don't know that."

"But you might know it," observed the gentleman.

"It's not my business," C2W returned. "It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!"

Well put, C2W!

......................

p.s. if there's really some serious trouble in your life C2W I'm sorry to hear it.

[Canadian_watcher]

And as long as nobody had any power and everybody had autonomy, life would then be practically a utopia relative to what it actually is, even in a world filled with nothing but lupercals on every continent, from coast to coast, as far as the eye could see.

It's quite a cheering thought, really. How about that.

bully.

on this board we each have autonomy, and ostensibly few ppl have any power, Lupercal not among them. So... what's your problem then? As in, what's the reason for your provocative post, and why is it that you are freer to post irrelevant hostile bullshit than, say, I am?

EDIT ugh I want to delete this but in case you've seen it I won't. I'll just add: forget it. I lost my head. I don't care about the answer.

[8bitagent]

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/07/16390880-james-holmes-very-relaxed-after-theater-massacre-officer-says?lite

The scene inside Theater 9 was pure chaos and horror: bloodied victims crawling for the exits past motionless bodies, the smell of tear gas stinging the disbelieving eyes of police officers, cellphones ringing all around.

Just a few feet away, though, in the multiplex parking lot, James Holmes was the picture of calm, “just standing there” in a helmet, gas mask and body armor, staring off into the distance.

“He seemed very detached from it all,” Officer Jason Oviatt of the Aurora, Colo., Police Department testified Monday as a preliminary hearing got under way with graphic testimony about the July 20 carnage at a midnight screening of a Batman movie.
Advertise | AdChoices

“Very, very relaxed.”

As I remarked at the time, it's almost like these 22 year olds are all programmed to carry out their mission like Arnold in the Tech Noir nite club in Terminator. Except, they either calmly just shut down or commit suicide.
None of them try and have a shoot out with cops, hide, flee, etc.

So yeah, there may be something to the "programmed to kill" thing...I personally do not believe there necessarily has to be a "second or third black op" shooter. Only an early 20 something kid
triggered somehow. There may not be any specific reason, ie "go to war, pass a bill, etc" other than to cause a strategy of tension or panic.

[12#4]

But we can all believe what we like, long as we know nothing.

Personally, I do know a few things. I know, for example that we have still been offered no proof whatsoever, no forensic evidence whatsoever, no motive whatsoever, no eyewitness identification whatsoever, in support of the assertion that Adam Lanza Dunnit.

It's an epistemological quandary, isn't it? I mean, there's a distinct difference between "no evidence" and "evidence I refuse to accept". For example, according to the police and published reports, there were several eyewitnesses. However, none of them have spoken to me personally, or given publicly available interviews with trustworthy journalists. I'm sort of forced to either accept that in a typical police investigation, the detectives on the case would have spoken to such persons and satisfied themselves that the person they saw corresponded to the actual perpetrator, who was wearing a mask (nice touch), and couldn't be identified by them anyway! And according to investigators, police officers supposedly found Lanza's body with his dead mother's gun nearby, his pockets filled with magazines, earplugs in his ears, dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. But I didn't see that myself, and I haven't seen any high quality, unretouched photographs of his body swathed in black, lying in a pool of blood, his mask removed and his face revealed in such a way that I could definitively identify the person in the picture as the same gaunt and insect-like Adam Lanza the police claim to have committed the murders, whose face has been plastered on the front of every tabloid in the land. (In fact, I have no way of confirming that the picture I've seen of Lanza is truely representative of his features, or is a strange anomaly, or is a picture of him at all. Why should I accept that?) But realistically (let's not kid each other here), there's no photographic evidence that could possibly and conclusively confirm his identity, because such things can be faked, and at this point it's far too long since the event to trust the products of the police state, whose output I wouldn't trust in any case, at all, because they're notorious liars. Where's the high-def, full color video stream of the event? None of the victims had time for a cel phone camera vid that they could email to a trustworthy media outlet? Why haven't police released photos of the victims and the shooter, in situ that have been authenticated by independent experts? Why haven't independent internet journalists been allowed to interview the adult victims in the hospital, or the juvenile survivors? But I guess they could just be actors anyway. Or maybe Tony Hawk, champion skateboarder.

This is a quality reply that gave me pause for thought and cause to post. My initial read of this is that the respondent is expressing frustration with the poster and also those of any similar mindset in terms of their want for extraordinary evidence of the most heinous U.S. gun massacre carried out by a lone individual of December 2012. Which was the most heinous U.S. gun massacre carried out by a lone individual since September 2012. Which was the most heinous U.S. gun massacre carried out by a lone individual since July 2012..

What is particular about these heinous massacres that causes these kinds of persons to post to the internet on conspiracy forums/Facebook/YouTube/wellaware1 (lame)/ctrl*/alt.conspiracy** expressing some form of credulity regarding lone individual gun massacres? I've not seen a rigorous line of investigation into that here.

I wasn't there, so you can't prove that it happened. You can't. So it probably didn't. At least certainly not in the way anyone says it did. And any evidence that will be brought forth will never be subjected to the stringent demands of a courtroom legal process. So it won't be real evidence.

On the other hand, how do I know it didn't go down just as the newspapers claim? How do I know he didn't kill his mom, shoot his way in through the school's front door, gun down the principal, and then proceed to the classrooms for further slaughter? There's no way for me to know that he didn't do it either, I guess. It's like a shooting at Schrödinger Elementary, with no way to collapse the waveform, no way to open the box.

This is more quality thought. Describing this most heinous U.S. gun massacre carried out by a lone individual as a potential meta-event that may have meaning to non-participants/victims on more than just the subjective level. These massacres have a psychic impact which I believe impels certain-minded persons to feel the need to express something other than the typically automatic human feelings of shock, grief, sadness and temporary sense of a loss of control some time after hearing/viewing/learning of such things."Questioning the official story" is not yet an entry in the DSM-V but from the reaction of some to others who do so you would certainly think it to be.

I also know that he's dead, his mother is dead

How do you know this? What's your evidence? Oh yeah, you read it on the internet. Sounds highly conclusive. Where's the proof?

This is just "you suck" internet discourse posturing I think, of the tween variety. The poster could have easily gotten this information by reading his copy of the Newtown Bee, by watching CNN/NBC/FOX or even from taking to a real-life person. I was not at his computer or inside of his head when he typed it but I certainly believe he did so with the full beliefs he expressed and a rational reason to put his words into the record of digital memory, joining many, many others touched by this tragic event who have no ill intentions and shouldn't be regarded as paranoid, delusional or ignorant.

* Conspiracy Theory Research List, a mailing list that pre-dates R.I.
** a pioneering newsgroup now available at Google Groups

[justdrew]

another possibility is: it's a matter of programming, but malfunctioning programming. wrong time, wrong place, wrong target, never intentionally triggered.

as for where did the programming come from? Perhaps it's possible in the right circumstances for a person to become self-programmed in some way. a train of thought becomes cyclical and self-reinforcing, it seeks more content, eventually a sub-conscious thought structure capable of motivating real-world actions could assemble itself into existence, while the person remains somewhat to completely unaware of it's presence and potential. Sort of a meme-concretion, assembled from free-floating psychological content present in environment. Thankfully such things are not generally transmissible, as they're custom built in each head. Although there may be fairly complex sub-units or seed-crystals that are readily transmissible.

[lupercal]

I personally do not believe there necessarily has to be a "second or third black op" shooter. Only an early 20 something kid triggered somehow.

What makes it improbable in Lanza's case at least is that it would take considerable skill with a rifle to get off as many rounds (early reports were 300) in the time he was on the loose, under 10 min., with the weapon he's said to have used, a Bushmaster AR-15 rifle, which is a semiatomatic, meaning that the shooter has to aim and pull the trigger once for each shot, not just point and shoot a spray of bulltets:

I'm not very imaginative I guess, because given automatic weapons

No Jack, you are imaginative, because the Bushmaster is not an automatic weapon:

The primary weapon used in the attack was a "Bushmaster AR-15 assault-type weapon," said Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance. The rifle is a Bushmaster version of a widely made AR-15, the civilian version of the M-16 rifle used by the U.S. military. The original M-16 patent ran out years ago, and now the AR-15 is manufactured by several gunmakers. Unlike the military version, the AR-15 is a semiautomatic, firing one bullet per squeeze of the trigger. But like the M-16, ammunition is loaded through a magazine. In the school shooting, police say Lanza's rifle used numerous 30-round magazines. An AR-15 is usually capable of firing a rate of 45 rounds per minute in semiautomatic mode.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/18/us/connec ... index.html

So while it sounds easy enough in the abstract, in reality, using the gun he's supposed to have used, it would have taken a lot of skill and practice, not to mention steely determination and physical strength, and that rules out Lanza as a shooter.

[82_28]

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/07/16390880-james-holmes-very-relaxed-after-theater-massacre-officer-says?lite

The scene inside Theater 9 was pure chaos and horror: bloodied victims crawling for the exits past motionless bodies, the smell of tear gas stinging the disbelieving eyes of police officers, cellphones ringing all around.

Just a few feet away, though, in the multiplex parking lot, James Holmes was the picture of calm, “just standing there” in a helmet, gas mask and body armor, staring off into the distance.

“He seemed very detached from it all,” Officer Jason Oviatt of the Aurora, Colo., Police Department testified Monday as a preliminary hearing got under way with graphic testimony about the July 20 carnage at a midnight screening of a Batman movie.
Advertise | AdChoices

“Very, very relaxed.”

As I remarked at the time, it's almost like these 22 year olds are all programmed to carry out their mission like Arnold in the Tech Noir nite club in Terminator. Except, they either calmly just shut down or commit suicide.
None of them try and have a shoot out with cops, hide, flee, etc.

So yeah, there may be something to the "programmed to kill" thing...I personally do not believe there necessarily has to be a "second or third black op" shooter. Only an early 20 something kid
triggered somehow. There may not be any specific reason, ie "go to war, pass a bill, etc" other than to cause a strategy of tension or panic.

Well said 8bit. Because without these weapons of this caliber in say motherfucking 1913 it would have never fucking gone down. It would have never happened also because people for the most part weren't "bred" to be motherfucking killers and have zero time in life to assess at the age of under 21 what it's all about and then know a goddamned assault firearm is always nearby, just where the goddamn bottle of pills the school counselor recommended the kid go on at age 15 or some shit. Sometimes earlier. One can add layer upon layer on this particular circumstance, however, it remains. Something is sick and something has to do with the firepower of ANYBODY anywhere. Whether it be the military, lone wolfs, 2nd Amendment supporters, you just go and fucking name it.

Gunpowder and the ability to utilize it was and is a Pandora's Box and will not be put to sleep anytime soon. We live in a science fiction novel now that was written maybe hundreds of years ago.

[lupercal]

But we can all believe what we like, long as we know nothing.

Personally, I do know a few things. I know, for example that we have still been offered no proof whatsoever, no forensic evidence whatsoever, no motive whatsoever, no eyewitness identification whatsoever, in support of the assertion that Adam Lanza Dunnit. And I know, too, that millions of people know, nonetheless, that this shy, sensitive 110-pound vegan boy with no criminal record dunnit (all on his own), and that anyone who even questions whether he dunnit can only be a lunatic.

I also know that he's dead, his mother is dead (though both are routinely omitted from the list of victims), hardly anyone is asking any serious questions, and he'll never have a trial. Meanwhile, an already-depressed population entered the Festive Season even more baffled and disorientated, even more worried about their own and their kids' future, and even more fearful of their neighbours, and therefore even more dependent on distant and anonymous "authorities" who have a vested interest in keeping them precisely that way.

This... I know.