Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Burnt Hill » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:26 pm

stickdog99 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:17 pm wrote:
Burnt Hill » 19 Jun 2016 22:33 wrote:I think it is likely that Selvon Dubon would tell us that Omar Mateen has been misidentified as he saw the shooter at the club. But maybe he is an FBI plant, attempting to incriminate an innocent man. Personally I think there is overwhelming evidence that Mateen did the shooting.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/os-survivor-nightclub-shooting-20160617-story.html


OK, at least that's one witness who says it was one guy shooting people like crazy immediately. That's the most compelling evidence I have seen to date that a lone gunman carried out this massacre. I still have to wonder why and how three cops, including two SWAT team members, were all outgunned by one guy. But I suppose he could have shot scores of people very quickly before holing up with hostages. Was Mateen wearing body armor? And do you have any other "overwhelming evidence" to share? I'd love to see it.


I agree that there is a ton of suspicious shit to work out in this massacre.
I do think Mateen was a player being played.
There will be more info forthcoming that will either satisfy or enrage us.
The best we can do here is keep exploring in a civilized manner.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Nordic » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:47 pm

nashvillebrook » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:53 pm wrote:
Nordic » 19 Jun 2016 14:11 wrote:Watching this should be mandatory for anyone questioning how he could have entered while packing an AR15



He didn't try to hide it -- walked right up and shot the off-duty officer. Here's a TIMELINE.

and btw, i was wrong, i thought the off-duty guy perished, he retreated to call for backup.

____________________

Image


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/os-orlando-pulse-nightclub-shooting-timeline-htmlstory.html


An off-duty Orlando Police Department officer in the nightclub's parking lot hears shots fired and sees Omar Mateen near the entrance. They exchange fire, but the officer realizes he is "outgunned" and retreats to call for backup. Mateen goes inside.

Graphic by Eben McCue and Angelica Quintero, Los Angeles Times and Charles Minshew, Orlando Sentinel

SHORTLY AFTER 2:02 AM
Amanda Alvear, 25 (Facebook)
Club patron Amanda Alvear, 25, records video of the moment when gunfire is first heard inside Pulse on the app Snapchat. She was shot and killed.

SHORTLY AFTER 2:02 AM

Omar Mateen
Survivor Selvin Dubon, 30, sees Mateen moving across the dance floor toward the VIP seating area near the patio, firing both his rifle and a handgun.

SHORTLY AFTER 2:02 AM
A DJ turns down the music and yells: "Run. Get out. There's a guy with a gun," said club patron Pascal Mignon, 43. As Mignon runs out of the club, he sees officers running in.

TIME UNCERTAIN

Omar Mateen
Police
Two backup Orlando police officers arrive. They rush into the club and exchange fire with Mateen, who runs toward the bathrooms.

2:06 AM
Eddie Justice, 30 (Facebook)
Eddie Justice, 30, texts his mother from the club bathroom: "Mommy I love you." Then: "In club they shooting." "Trapp in bathroom." "Pulse. Downtown. Call police." And then: "I'm gonna die."

2:09 AM

Pulse posts on Facebook.

2:12 AM
Akyra Murray, 18 (Twitter)
Akyra Murray, 18, calls her mother begging for help and saying she and her cousin had been shot while hiding an a bathroom stall with others. Murray later died from her wound, and became the youngest victim to die in the Pulse shooting.

2:15 AM
Belle Isle Police Officer Justin Lemieux arrives, hearing minutes later that the shooter was barricaded in a bathroom. Officers begin removing people from the club.

2:17 AM

Survivor Brandon Wolf tweets after escaping from the club. His friends are Juan Guerrero and Christopher "Drew" Leinonen, who died in the attack.

2:25 AM
Jeff Rodriguez, who had been shot three times, sends a text message to his younger brother: "I beenx shot at club.... dying i love u." Then: "Dead bodies on top of me... tell everyone i lovethrm." Rodriguez survived but was critically injured.

2:30 AM

Associated Press via MySpace
Mateen makes three 911 calls and says he was doing this because he wanted America to stop bombing his country, according to Patience Carter, a witness in the bathroom. At some point, a police negotiator begins speaking with him. Police would not say when.
TIME UNCERTAIN

With the help of patrons, police remove a wall air-conditioning unit from a dressing room on the north side of the building and help several people escape. More escape through exits on the building's north side.

TIME UNCERTAIN
During a lull, Mateen searches the Internet for news of the shootings.

2:45 AM
Belle Isle Officers Brandon Cornwell and Jon-Paul Gargano begin pulling victims out of the main area of the nightclub.

2:45 AM
A News 13 producer takes a phone call from someone who says, "I'm the shooter. It's me...I did it for ISIS."

2:49 AM
Eddie Justice sends his mother another text message: "Hurry he's in the bathroom with us." "Is the man in the bathroom wit u?" his mother Mina Justice replied, telling her son she was calling 911 for him. "He's a terror," Eddie Justice wrote. Then: "Yes." That was the last text his mother got from him. Eddie Justice died of his injuries.

2:49 AM

Survivor Jeannette McCoy posts on Facebook.

3:17 AM

Survivor Anthony Torres posts on Facebook from outside Pulse.

3:28 AM
Orlando Fire Department radio transmission: "This is ORMC. Only trauma alerts. If they're walking, talking, anything else, [they] need to go to another unit."

3:58 AM

4 AM
Mateen texts his wife to ask if she had seen news of the shooting. She responds that she loved him.

4:05 AM
Orange County Fire Rescue radio transmission: Send EOD [Explosive Ordnance Disposal] to the scene. Bring bomb van, Hazmat and bomb technicians.

4:23 AM

Audio provided by Broadcastify

Orlando Fire Department radio transmission indicates rescue efforts are underway.

4:25 AM

Witness Nic Hornstein, watching the scene from a friend's rooftop, takes a photo of police patting down hostages that had just been released.

4:58 AM

Audio provided by Broadcastify

Orange County Fire Rescue radio transmission gives details on the extent of injuries.

APPX. 5 AM

Omar Mateen
Police
Orlando police make the decision to rescue Pulse patrons. Mina says Mateen told a negotiator that he was going to put four hostages in explosive vests, and had a vest for himself as well. Officers, fearing imminent loss of life, decide to force their way through the restroom walls.

5:03 AM

5:05 AM

5:09 AM
Per radio transmission, Orange County Fire Rescue is advised to clear the area.

5:15 AM

Witness Brett Moots, on a nearby rooftop, takes video, capturing the sound of a gun battle.

5:16 AM

Audio provided by Broadcastify

An Orlando police officer is injured, according to Orange County Fire Rescue.

5:53 AM

Sources: Orlando Sentinel, Orlando Police Department, Orlando Fire Department, Orange County Fire Rescue, AP, NPR, Snapchat, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, GoFundMe


I don't understand what your point is. This is all from the cops and their complicit media. There's no reason to believe it.

I distinctly remember after 911 seeing very detailed graphic representations of OBL's supervillain hideouts in the mountains of Afghanistan. And so forth and do on.

Why are you automatically believing the media's official story?

Maybe it's true but maybe it's not. Bottom line is what Mac said above. Mateen was a regular at the club. We know that from actual witnesses. How do we know he wasn't just there as another guest that night?

We don't. We barely KNOW anything.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:49 pm

Advance to 1:30 -



Do The Right Thing

Orlando survivor admits TRAPPING other club-goers inside after he escaped but claims he thought he was 'doing the right thing'

Luis Burbano admitted to trapping other revelers inside Pulse nightclub during the deadly shooting Saturday night

Burbano exited the club via an 'employee's only' door that led to a hallway to an exit

On the other side of the door, he found himself crammed in with about 20 other people all struggling to move and make it to the exit

So he said he shut the door behind him for a few seconds to give everyone more room

Another witness says Burbano actually shut the second door, trapping dozens of people inside the hallway when Omar Mateen was still shooting

One of the Orlando shooting survivors has admitted to locking an exit door, putting dozens of revelers' lives at risk during the massacre.

The revelations about Luis Burbano's actions the night of the shooting have come to light after he gave an interview, saying he 'regrets' his second chance at life.

When gunman Omar Mateen first started firing inside Orlando, Florida gay club Pulse around 2am on Sunday, Burbano says he dropped to the ground and then looked for an exit. Nearby, he saw people moving through a small 'employee's only' door hidden behind a curtain, and followed after.

On the other side of the door was a narrow hallway where Burbano estimates about 20 people were crawling over each other to get to the exit at the other end. Burbano says he decided to shut the door behind him because the hallway was getting dangerously overcrowded. Burbano was questioned about the rumors he locked other partiers inside the club during an interview With Fox News' Megyn Kelly on Sunday, and during the interview he admitted that it was risky.

'That was on my mind,' Burbano said. 'There was banging, there was pushing of the door...but at that point in time, I just tried doing what I thought would be best at that moment because [the gunshots were] getting louder and getting closer.'

Burbano went on to say that he only closed the door for 10 to 15 seconds, in order to let the other people exit, and that he prays his actions didn't lead to anyone getting killed on the other side of the door. 'You don't know what to do until that happens and i just thought I was doing the right thing,' he said.

There does seem to be at least one major discrepancy between Burbano's story and those that were locked in the club. Witness Janiel Gonzalez told ABC News that it was the exit door to the outside, and not the 'employee's only' door that someone slammed shut. If that's the case, then Burbano's excuse that he was trying to protect from overcrowding in the hallway doesn't line up.

'In a moment of desperation we were all crawling on the floor trying to find a place to exit. I looked to my right and I could see people going through some curtains. We were digging through the curtains and we finally see a door.

'Fifty people were trying to jump over each other trying to exit the place. There was a guy holding the door and not letting us exit. He’s like "Stay inside, stay inside." As he is saying that, the shooter keeps getting closer and closer and the sound of the bullets is getting closer.

'Everyone starts to panic. People are getting trampled. We're shouting "Let us out, let us out!" Gonzalez recalled.

Gonzalez voiced his skepticism over a person who would trap innocent bystanders inside a club with a gunman, saying he at first feared the man may have been working in concert with the gunman.

'This guy is trying to prevent us from leaving. Maybe they’re working together,' Gonzalez said.

In another interview, Burbano spoke about his escape and talked about his survivors guilt.

Burbana said he doesn't feel lucky for making it out alive, adding: 'Someone told me I got a second chance at life, and I say "Is that what this is?"

'I regret it. I regret that second chance.'





Ummmm, what???
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:52 pm

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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Burnt Hill » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:02 pm

Yeah overwhelming is a bit of a stretch. It appears that a lot of the clubbers in attendance that fateful night knew/of Mateen. There was one who saw him walking into the club earlier that night and recognized him from Grindr and said hello. That there hasn't been any outcry from those in attendance that the shooter was misidentified as Mateen holds some sway. There are many sources who knew him and describe him in worrisome terms that bear weight. I also find the idea of Mateen as innocent just as dependent on the media complex reports as any other theory- it just takes the ultimate distrust of that same media, does that make sense? I mean if one is to disregard media reports than why stop with passion for ones imagined idea of Mateen? Unless one knew him, all knowledge of him came from the media.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:19 pm

Best Timeline Yet

JUNE 12, 2:02 AM

An off-duty Orlando Police Department officer in the nightclub's parking lot hears shots fired and sees Omar Mateen near the entrance. They exchange fire, but the officer realizes he is "outgunned" and retreats to call for backup. Mateen goes inside.

SHORTLY AFTER 2:02 AM

Club patron Amanda Alvear, 25, records video of the moment when gunfire is first heard inside Pulse on the app Snapchat. She was shot and killed.

SHORTLY AFTER 2:02 AM

Survivor Selvin Dubon, 30, sees Mateen moving across the dance floor toward the VIP seating area near the patio, firing both his rifle and a handgun.

SHORTLY AFTER 2:02 AM

A DJ turns down the music and yells: "Run. Get out. There's a guy with a gun," said club patron Pascal Mignon, 43. As Mignon runs out of the club, he sees officers running in.

TIME UNCERTAIN

Two backup Orlando police officers arrive. They rush into the club and exchange fire with Mateen, who runs toward the bathrooms.

2:06 AM

Eddie Justice, 30, texts his mother from the club bathroom: "Mommy I love you." Then: "In club they shooting." "Trapp in bathroom." "Pulse. Downtown. Call police." And then: "I'm gonna die."

2:09 AM

Pulse posts on Facebook:

http://www.trbimg.com/img-576323c7/turb ... -facebook/

{More high weirdness}

2:12 AM

Akyra Murray, 18, calls her mother begging for help and saying she and her cousin had been shot while hiding an a bathroom stall with others. Murray later died from her wound, and became the youngest victim to die in the Pulse shooting.

{This makes the cops' decision to wait three hours to attempt to rescue these people rather stunning.}

2:15 AM

Belle Isle Police Officer Justin Lemieux arrives, hearing minutes later that the shooter was barricaded in a bathroom. Officers begin removing people from the club.

{So Mateen shot 100 people in less than 15 minutes. Right?}

...

2:30 AM

Mateen makes three 911 calls and says he was doing this because he wanted America to stop bombing his country, according to Patience Carter, a witness in the bathroom. At some point, a police negotiator begins speaking with him. Police would not say when.

TIME UNCERTAIN

With the help of patrons, police remove a wall air-conditioning unit from a dressing room on the north side of the building and help several people escape. More escape through exits on the building's north side.

TIME UNCERTAIN

During a lull, Mateen searches the Internet for news of the shootings.

2:45 AM

Belle Isle Officers Brandon Cornwell and Jon-Paul Gargano begin pulling victims out of the main area of the nightclub.

2:45 AM

A News 13 producer takes a phone call from someone who says, "I'm the shooter. It's me...I did it for ISIS."

{What now? He called a News 13 PRODUCER?}

2:49 AM

Eddie Justice sends his mother another text message: "Hurry he's in the bathroom with us." "Is the man in the bathroom wit u?" his mother Mina Justice replied, telling her son she was calling 911 for him. "He's a terror," Eddie Justice wrote. Then: "Yes." That was the last text his mother got from him. Eddie Justice died of his injuries.

...

3:28 AM

Orlando Fire Department radio transmission: "This is ORMC. Only trauma alerts. If they're walking, talking, anything else, [they] need to go to another unit."

...

4 AM

Mateen texts his wife to ask if she had seen news of the shooting. She responds that she loved him.

{OK}

4:05 AM

Orange County Fire Rescue radio transmission: Send EOD [Explosive Ordnance Disposal] to the scene. Bring bomb van, Hazmat and bomb technicians.

4:23 AM

0:19

Audio provided by Broadcastify {miraculously back online!}

Orlando Fire Department radio transmission indicates rescue efforts are underway.

...

5:15 AM

Witness Brett Moots, on a nearby rooftop, takes video, capturing the sound of a gun battle.

{More the 3 hours after the first SWAT team members arrive}

...
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:23 pm

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pul ... story.html

In his final post on Facebook from the nightclub, Mateen wrote, "In the next few days you will see attacks from the Islamic state in the usa."
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby FourthBase » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:37 pm

nashvillebrook » 19 Jun 2016 18:10 wrote:
Nordic » 19 Jun 2016 14:16 wrote:
If you're saying that it wasn't LEE HARVEY OSWALD who shot THAT MAGIC BULLET AT JFK , you're beyond redemption. Look at his FRIENDS, the SOVIET UNION connection, whether there was some sort of coordination with THE CUBANS -- all of that is relevant. But dude -- OSWALD shot OUR PRESIDENT and AMERICA has reacted in the best way possible to a whole weekend of being under siege. Don't forget that this didn't start with OSWALD


^^ old strategy. old tactics.

this seems more germane.


That scene is hideous and creepy. Couldn't watch the rest of the movie when I rented it. Turned my stomach.

As for the Oswald analogy, he need not be innocent for a conspiracy to exist. Nagell didn't think he was innocent. In the worldview where every terrorist and assassin is an innocent patsy, that would make even Nagell a conspiracy-theory-denying stooge. Absurd.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:39 pm

Guardian

Gruler and the next two officers to arrive on scene, Swat team members Scott Smith and Jeffrey Backhaus, went straight into the club and secured a large area where the first victims had been gunned down, so the injured could be evacuated to the hospital. They were unable to neutralise Mateen, however. He withdrew into the bathrooms, taking a number of hostages with him.

In such a situation, hostages are not really hostages, said Ron Borsch, a well-known protocol trainer from Ohio. Instead, they are “temporarily alive murder victims”. On the other hand, Mateen’s retreat to the bathrooms suggested someone who might not have been quite so ruthless.

“It seems like he was caring a little much about himself,” Borsch said.

...

Santiago and his friend were cowering in a handicapped toilet cubicle with about 15 or 20 other clubgoers. Santiago dropped the ground and tried to hide under the sink, though he knew it would offer scant protection. He began to realise this was more than an altercation between two people. Much more.

...

Torres recalled hearing Mateen talking to people in one of the other stalls, telling them not to use their phones. “He said please don’t text – that’s the exact words he used: ‘Please don’t text.’”

...

One of the most puzzling aspects of what Torres heard as he remained as still as possible inside the bathroom stall came next. Mateen, he recalled, “got on the phone to someone he knew and said, ‘We are doing this already, it should be on the news already.’”

Strangely, the gunman referred in the course of the conversation to three others inside the club and called himself the “fourth gunman”.

“He mentioned some girl’s name,” Torres said, “saying she was inside the club with a bomb vest.”

Torres has no idea why Mateen would have told such a blatant lie, as there was no one else with him. It later became clear that killer did have a track record of making false statements, such as his claim to co-workers that he knew Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the brothers who carried out the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing.

...

2.39am

Eddie Justice texted his mother: “Call them mommy. Now.”

He wrote that the killer was in the bathroom. “He’s coming. I’m gonna die.”

Justice asked her son if anyone was hurt and which bathroom he was in. At 2.42am, he responded: “Lots. Yes.”

When he didn’t text back, she sent several more messages. Was he with police? “Text me please,” she wrote.

“No,” he wrote four minutes later. “Still here in bathroom. He has us. They need to come get us.”

2.45am

Manteen phoned News 13 Orlando and spoke to producer Matt Gentili, repeating his claim that he carried out the attack for Isis. Police had various commuications with Mateen. According to Orlando mayor Buddy Dyer, the gunman falsely claimed to have explosive vests, which he threatened to strap to four hostages and detonate.

...

4.15am

An initial reconstruction, based both on public statements by the Orlando authorities and on second-hand accounts of internal deliberations from a senior law enforcement official who has been briefed on them, suggests that the police brought the siege to an end approximately 45 minutes earlier than previously reported.

The county bomb squad set shape charges on the walls outside the bathrooms in which many surviving clubgoers were trapped. The plan was to provide those survivors with escape routes while also giving law enforcement an entry point.

The senior official described the decision to use explosive charges as “an extremely aggressive entry” and a decision “you don’t take lightly”. He said it was rare for most state or local law enforcement agencies to resort to such a tactic because they don’t generally have the expertise to perform the operation with confidence. In this case, the closest experts would probably have been at McDill air force base in Tampa, more than 80 miles away.

The charges failed to breach the walls, forcing the police to resort to plan B. They broke in with a battering ram: an armoured vehicle known as a Bearcat.

For those imprisoned inside, it was the moment of salvation. Torres recalled a loud explosion and the bathroom filling with dust. Within seconds members of the police Swat team had burst in. Torres was dragged up and virtually hurled through the hole in the wall, landing on the hard ground outside the club, grazing his arm and side. He was quickly taken to Florida hospital. Later on Sunday, he was released.

Santiago, still on the ground in a pool of blood, said he heard the police arrive, yelling: “Drop it! Hands up!” Then he heard police chatter on a distant radio. Unable to walk, he dragged himself under the stall to exit it. He saw a body in front of the door on the opposite side. There was no one else. He dragged himself out of the bathroom towards the bar area and saw the face of a police officer.

Santiago waved the light of his cellphone so the officers could see him. They told him to lift his hands and drop whatever he was carrying. Santiago complied and dragged himself towards them. They grabbed him by the arms and took him outside, where he told them there were at least 15 people in the bathroom needing help.

“At that point they asked me instructions on exactly where the bathroom was,” he said. “After I told them, they put me in an ambulance.”

Police later issued photos showing a simple hole in a wall, about 4ft high and 3ft wide.

“We were able to rescue dozens and dozens of people who came out of that hole,” the police chief, John Mina, said.

The police have given no indication whether any of those shot at the end of the ordeal were accidentally hit by their own bullets. “The autopsy reports will tell us a great deal,” the senior law enforcement official said. “You can be sure this is going to be examined at the molecular level.”

Mateen himself came through the hole, still shooting. He hit Swat officer Michael Napolitano’s Kevlar helmet, directly in front of his forehead. But now he was outnumbered, by 14 law enforcement officers, and outgunned. “He engaged in a gunbattle with officers where he was ultimately killed,” Mina reported.

...

5.53am

Orlando police tweeted: “Pulse Shooting: The shooter inside the club is dead.”

...

The estimated death toll more than doubled. At a press conference, police said 50 were dead and 53 more hospitalised. Officials later clarified that the death toll included 49 victims and the gunman.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:47 pm

divideandconquer » 19 Jun 2016 23:00 wrote:For the 2nd Mass Shooting in a Row, Media Allowed to Trample Evidence at Shooter’s Home
An assumption could be made that a secondary crime scene in a potential matter of national security would be treated with delicacy and scrutiny — and would be guarded against contamination from outside parties. But almost immediately following the mass shooting in Orlando — exactly as what happened after the San Bernardino massacre — mainstream media breached the ostensible crime scene at the apartment of key suspect, Omar Mateen.

This time, however, reporters didn’t need to break through a barricaded but unguarded residence — the FBI simply left the door unlocked after its initial investigation. Actually, make that two doors — the apartment’s front and back doors were not only left unlocked, they weren’t barricaded, even with the ubiquitous yellow crime scene tape.

And just like San Bernardino — when a slew of reporters rummaged through the shooters’ belongings — media crews made a mockery of the FBI in live time, snapping pictures, pushing items around, tweeting in real time pictures from Mateen’s bathroom. Pure sensationalist gawkery on display.


:starz:
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Project Willow » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:45 pm

http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/omar-mateen-committed-mass-murder-fbi-tried-lure-him-terror-plot

Before Omar Mateen Committed Mass Murder, The FBI Tried To 'Lure' Him Into A Terror Plot
New revelations raise questions about the FBI’s role in shaping Mateen’s lethal mindset.
By Max Blumenthal, Sarah Lazare / AlterNet June 19, 2016

Before Omar Mateen gunned down 49 patrons at the LGBTQ Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, the FBI attempted to induce his participation in a terror plot. Sheriff Ken Mascara of Florida’s St. Lucie County told the Vero Beach Press Journal that after Mateen threatened a courthouse deputy in 2013 by claiming he could order Al Qaeda operatives to kill his family, the FBI dispatched an informant to "lure Omar into some kind of act and Omar did not bite."

While self-styled terror experts and former counter-terror officials have criticized the FBI for failing to stop Mateen before he committed a massacre, the new revelation raises the question of whether the FBI played a role in shifting his mindset toward an act of violence. All that is known at present is that an FBI informant attempted to push Mateen into agreeing to stage a terror attack in hopes that he would fall into the law enforcement dragnet.

This is the technique the FBI has used to entrap scores of young, often mentally troubled Muslim men and send them to prison for as long as 25 years. As Aviva Stahl reported for AlterNet’s Grayzone Project, the FBI recently encouraged an apparently mentally disturbed recent convert to Islam named James Medina to bomb a South Florida synagogue and pledge allegiance to ISIS, a militant group he had no prior affiliation with. Now on trial for planning to commit an act of terror with a weapon of mass destruction, Medina is insisting through his lawyer that he is mentally ill.

Trevor Aaronson, a journalist and author of “Terror Factory: Inside the FBI’s Manufactured War on Terror,” revealed that nearly half of terror cases between 9/11/01 and 2010 involved informants -- many of whom were themselves criminals raking in as much as $100,000 from the FBI. “Is it possible that the FBI is creating the very enemy we fear?” Aaronson wondered.

The revelations of FBI manipulation cast Mateen’s case in a uniquely troubling light. Though he refused to “bite” when an FBI asset attempted to push him into a manufactured plot, he wound up carrying out a real act of spectacular brutality, and allegedly swore loyalty to ISIS in the midst of it. Now the question is whether the FBI was right to pursue Mateen before he could kill, or whether it played an influencing role in shaping his attitude towards politically-motivated violence.

“It looks like it's pretty much standard operating procedure for preliminary inquiries to interview the subject or pitch the person to become an informant and/or plant an undercover or informant close by to see if the person bites on the suggestion,” Coleen Rowley, a former FBI agent and division counsel whose May 2002 memo to the FBI Director exposed some of the FBI’s pre-9/11 failures, told AlterNet. “In the case of Mateen, since he already worked for a security contractor [G4S], he was either too savvy to bite on the pitch or he may have even become indignant that he was targeted in that fashion. These pitches and use of people can backfire.”

To highlight the danger of relying on informants, Rowley pointed to the case of Humam Khalil al-Balawi, a Jordanian physician whom the CIA used to gather intelligence on Al Qaeda,. The CIA ignored obvious warning signs like Balawi’s extremist online manifestos and never subjected him to a vetting process. While Balawi claimed to have penetrated Al Qaeda’s inner circle, he was actually exploiting his CIA security clearance to plan a major attack. On December 30, 2009, Balawi strode into Camp Chapman in Khost, Afghanistan, and detonated an explosive vest that killed seven CIA agents and wounded six more -- the deadliest attack on CIA personnel in 25 years.

For his part, Mateen displayed many of the personal vulnerabilities that typify both FBI informants and the fellow Muslims they attempt to ensnare in bogus terror plots. Raised in a troubled home by an abusive mother and an apparently deranged father, Mateen exhibited signs of erratic, violent behavior throughout his life. His ex-wife told reporters that he physically abused her and was “unstable and mentally ill.” As he transformed from a chubby adolescent to a burly young man with the help of steroids, he yearned for a career in law enforcement.

Seven months into a job as a prison guard in 2007, Mateen was fired for threatening to bring a gun to class. He settled on a career as a low level security guard for G4S Security Solutions, a global security firm that employed him for nine years. Though Mateen’s applications to two police departments were rejected, he was able to pass a G4S background check and receive several guard assignments. (The world’s third largest private employer, G4S has accumulated a staggering record of human rights abuses, including accusations of child torture.)

While the full extent of Mateen’s contact with the FBI is unknown, it is clear that it extended into the realm of planning a bogus terror attack. The question now is whether manipulation by a FBI informant had any impact on Mateen’s deadly decision.

“The FBI should scrutinize the operating procedure where they use undercovers and informants and pitch people to become informants,” said Rowley. “They must recognize that, in this case [with Mateen], it had horrible consequences if it did, in fact, backfire.”
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:15 pm

June 19, 2016, 04:18 pm
Family of Orlando shooter's wife: She 'is completely innocent'
By Rebecca Savransky

The family of the wife of the Orlando, Fla., shooter said their daughter did not have any role in the attack.

"Noor is completely innocent and [was] unaware of the attacks," the family said in a statement to ABC News.

The family said their daughter, the wife of suspected shooter Omar Mateen, does not understand "cause and effect."
She was been enrolled in special education classes at school and a teacher who knew Noor Salman said she had learning disabilities.

"Noor had difficulty with retention, she had difficulty with conceptualizing, understanding, all challenges to her," Salman's middle school teacher, referred to as Susan, told ABC News.


"She tried hard. She was very sweet."

Salman's family confirmed that Susan was their daughter's special education teacher.

The wife of the suspected shooter was considered a "special day class student," which meant she took all of her classes with special education teachers, ABC News reported.

Salman is under investigation in connection with the Orlando nightclub shooting that left 49 people dead and many more wounded. The attack was the worst mass-shooting in modern U.S. history.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:16 pm

I feel that Mateen was not under the influence of the FBI or any other government agency when he decided to commit mass murder. I do believe he was confused about his own sexual identity and loathed himself for having homosexual feelings. We've all seen closeted self-hating homosexual legislators rail on in promoting anti-gay legislation before being exposed or coming out. He killed many homosexuals and assured his own death over being questioned about his sexuality. If he believes he's become a martyr, he must not have believed God is all-knowing.

Many have identified the shooter as the same man who frequented Pulse. Mac, if I gave you the names of 3 who did, what makes you believe their testimony would be believable? Couldn't they all "be in on it"? (How do you manage to decide what is credible evidence over that you decide isn't? Eye witness testimony? Where does the conspiracy begin and where does it end? How can you be sure?)

If our government has been grooming Omar's father to become the next president of Afghanistan, there would be nothing unusual about the FBI meeting with his son to "clear" him.

I just don't see this as suspicious as others do.

Another very sad day in America, where people who have been placed on a 'no fly' list composed of suspected or latent terrorists, can walk into a gun store and buy any quantity of guns and ammunition and walk out to go on a killing spree.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Karmamatterz » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:24 pm

From Mac:

Compare and contrast with the Designated Culprit, Omar Mateen (deceased, of course) -- a darkskinned bisexual Afghan-American, and a well-known regular at the club. And also the loving father of a very small son, whom we are instructed to believe he abandoned without a qualm.


Please provide proof of the quote.

What reliable evidence do you have to prove he was bi?

How do you know he was a loving father?

What first person info do you have to prove all this? Are you psychic? Did you have a personal relationship with the alleged shooter? Did he tell you these things or did you observe him being bi or a loving father? You were quite pleased with yourself to call me out on my earlier comments which I wrote based on crappy info read on the Interent from establishment media. What are your sources?

------------------

Thank you Iamwhoiam for stating the obvious.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby SonicG » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:31 pm

Iamwhomiam » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:16 am wrote:
If our government has been grooming Omar's father to become the next president of Afghanistan, there would be nothing unusual about the FBI meeting with his son to "clear" him.

I just don't see this as suspicious as others do.

Another very sad day in America, where people who have been placed on a 'no fly' list composed of suspected or latent terrorists, can walk into a gun store and buy any quantity of guns and ammunition and walk out to go on a killing spree.


Not sure what you mean about the FBI. He was investigated for other reasons and I am not sure you could say his father was exactly being groomed, more like he was trying to groom himself...

Mateen first came to the FBI’s attention in 2013, when he was a security guard and co-workers heard him say he had connections to al Qaeda and Hezbollah, and that he hoped to martyr himself in a confrontation with the law, according to Comey. The FBI opened a preliminary investigation, which allows agents to conduct limited surveillance and searches, but not to use its most aggressive tools (like FISA or Title III warrants). The bureau used that power to run undercover agents against Mateen, search his “transactional records,” and record his conversations, Comey said.

...
Two months later, however, Mateen’s name surfaced again, this time as an associate of an American who had gone to Syria and become a suicide bomber for an al Qaeda affiliate there. According to Comey, the two had known each other because they attended the same mosque, “but our investigation turned up no ties of any consequence between the two of them.” In the midst of the massacre Sunday morning, Mateen expressed “solidarity” with the suicide bomber on one of three calls with 911 dispatchers, Comey said.

http://time.com/4368439/orlando-shootin ... n-dropped/
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