TRUMP is seriously dangerous

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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Rory » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:51 pm

Grizzly » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:00 pm wrote:George Lakoff: Why is Donald Trump winning?

http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/yonsi ... =true#2568


Food for thought ...


Good article.

Language that fits that worldview activates that worldview, strengthening it, while turning off the other worldview and weakening it. The more Trump’s views are discussed in the media, the more they are activated and the stronger they get, both in the minds of hardcore conservatives and in the minds of moderate progressives.

This is true even if you are attacking Trump’s views. The reason is that negating a frame activates that frame, as I pointed out in the book Don’t Think of an Elephant! It doesn’t matter if you are promoting Trump or attacking Trump, you are helping Trump.


Trumposaurus Wrecks (the political establishment)
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:49 pm

Orrrr he activates the establishment's connection with people who might have been forming their own networks and now are expending energy supporting or opposing Trump
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Sounder » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:00 pm

It's good writing

These positions are mortal sins in the Church of the Neoconservative and the only penance is an intense round of Stalinist self-criticism and ultimately political exile because one is never trustworthy again once one violates the neocon commandments. There is no purgatorio in the neocon Inferno.

So in Politico today, Michael Crowley writes that the “Neocons Declare War on Trump.” How do they propose to prosecute their war? As usual, with their well-known bravery. They are planning a mass exodus from the Republican Party to support their sister-in-arms Hillary Clinton, who as president plans to change the official motto of the United States from “In God We Trust” to “We Came, We Saw, He Died.”



I wish I could ignore it all.

http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/yonsi ... =true#2568

Whenever you hear the words “political correctness” remember this.
Biconceptuals

There is no middle in American politics. There are moderates, but there is no ideology of the moderate, no single ideology that all moderates agree on. A moderate conservative has some progressive positions on issues, though they vary from person to person. Similarly, a moderate progressive has some conservative positions on issues, again varying from person to person. In short, moderates have both political moral worldviews, but mostly use one of them. Those two moral worldviews in general contradict each other. How can they reside in the same brain at the same time?

Both are characterized in the brain by neural circuitry. They are linked by a commonplace circuit: mutual inhibition. When one is turned on the other is turned off; when one is strengthened, the other is weakened. What turns them on or off? Language that fits that worldview activates that worldview, strengthening it, while turning off the other worldview and weakening it. The more Trump’s views are discussed in the media, the more they are activated and the stronger they get, both in the minds of hardcore conservatives and in the minds of moderate progressives.
This is true even if you are attacking Trump’s views. The reason is that negating a frame activates that frame, as I pointed out in the book Don’t Think of an Elephant! It doesn’t matter if you are promoting Trump or attacking Trump, you are helping Trump.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:50 pm

This Chris Hedges piece on Trump is great. And actually inspiring for once.

The Revenge of the Lower Classes and the Rise of American Fascism

College-educated elites, on behalf of corporations, carried out the savage neoliberal assault on the working poor. Now they are being made to pay. Their duplicity—embodied in politicians such as Bill and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama—succeeded for decades. These elites, many from East Coast Ivy League schools, spoke the language of values—civility, inclusivity, a condemnation of overt racism and bigotry, a concern for the middle class—while thrusting a knife into the back of the underclass for their corporate masters. This game has ended.

There are tens of millions of Americans, especially lower-class whites, rightfully enraged at what has been done to them, their families and their communities. They have risen up to reject the neoliberal policies and political correctness imposed on them by college-educated elites from both political parties: Lower-class whites are embracing an American fascism.

These Americans want a kind of freedom—a freedom to hate. They want the freedom to use words like “nigger,” “kike,” “spic,” “chink,” “raghead” and “fag.” They want the freedom to idealize violence and the gun culture. They want the freedom to have enemies, to physically assault Muslims, undocumented workers, African-Americans, homosexuals and anyone who dares criticize their cryptofascism. They want the freedom to celebrate historical movements and figures that the college-educated elites condemn, including the Ku Klux Klan and the Confederacy. They want the freedom to ridicule and dismiss intellectuals, ideas, science and culture. They want the freedom to silence those who have been telling them how to behave. And they want the freedom to revel in hypermasculinity, racism, sexism and white patriarchy. These are the core sentiments of fascism. These sentiments are engendered by the collapse of the liberal state.

The Democrats are playing a very dangerous game by anointing Hillary Clinton as their presidential candidate. She epitomizes the double-dealing of the college-educated elites, those who speak the feel-your-pain language of ordinary men and women, who hold up the bible of political correctness, while selling out the poor and the working class to corporate power.

The Republicans, energized by America’s reality-star version of Il Duce, Donald Trump, have been pulling in voters, especially new voters, while the Democrats are well below the voter turnouts for 2008. In the voting Tuesday, 5.6 million votes were cast for the Democrats while 8.3 million went to the Republicans. Those numbers were virtually reversed in 2008—8.2 million for the Democrats and about 5 million for the Republicans.

Richard Rorty in his last book, “Achieving Our Country,” written in 1998, presciently saw where our postindustrial nation was headed.

Many writers on socioeconomic policy have warned that the old industrialized democracies are heading into a Weimar-like period, one in which populist movements are likely to overturn constitutional governments. Edward Luttwak, for example, has suggested that fascism may be the American future. The point of his book The Endangered American Dream is that members of labor unions, and unorganized unskilled workers, will sooner or later realize that their government is not even trying to prevent wages from sinking or to prevent jobs from being exported. Around the same time, they will realize that suburban white-collar workers—themselves desperately afraid of being downsized—are not going to let themselves be taxed to provide social benefits for anyone else.

At that point, something will crack. The nonsuburban electorate will decide that the system has failed and start looking around for a strongman to vote for—someone willing to assure them that, once he is elected, the smug bureaucrats, tricky lawyers, overpaid bond salesmen, and postmodernist professors will no longer be calling the shots. A scenario like that of Sinclair Lewis’ novel It Can’t Happen Here may then be played out. For once a strongman takes office, nobody can predict what will happen. In 1932, most of the predictions made about what would happen if Hindenburg named Hitler chancellor were wildly overoptimistic.

One thing that is very likely to happen is that the gains made in the past forty years by black and brown Americans, and by homosexuals, will be wiped out. Jocular contempt for women will come back into fashion. The words “nigger” and “kike” will once again be heard in the workplace. All the sadism which the academic Left has tried to make unacceptable to its students will come flooding back. All the resentment which badly educated Americans feel about having their manners dictated to them by college graduates will find an outlet.


Fascist movements build their base not from the politically active but the politically inactive, the “losers” who feel, often correctly, they have no voice or role to play in the political establishment. The sociologist Émile Durkheim warned that the disenfranchisement of a class of people from the structures of society produced a state of “anomie”—a “condition in which society provides little moral guidance to individuals.” Those trapped in this “anomie,” he wrote, are easy prey to propaganda and emotionally driven mass movements. Hannah Arendt, echoing Durkheim, noted that “the chief characteristic of the mass man is not brutality and backwardness, but his isolation and lack of normal social relationships.”

In fascism the politically disempowered and disengaged, ignored and reviled by the establishment, discover a voice and a sense of empowerment.

As Arendt noted, the fascist and communist movements in Europe in the 1930s “… recruited their members from this mass of apparently indifferent people whom all other parties had given up as too apathetic or too stupid for their attention. The result was that the majority of their membership consisted of people who had never before appeared on the political scene. This permitted the introduction of entirely new methods into political propaganda, and indifference to the arguments of political opponents; these movements not only placed themselves outside and against the party system as a whole, they found a membership that had never been reached, never been ‘spoiled’ by the party system.
Therefore they did not need to refute opposing arguments and consistently preferred methods which ended in death rather than persuasion, which spelled terror rather than conviction. They presented disagreements as invariably originating in deep natural, social, or psychological sources beyond the control of the individual and therefore beyond the control of reason. This would have been a shortcoming only if they had sincerely entered into competition with either parties; it was not if they were sure of dealing with people who had reason to be equally hostile to all parties.”

Fascism is aided and advanced by the apathy of those who are tired of being conned and lied to by a bankrupt liberal establishment, whose only reason to vote for a politician or support a political party is to elect the least worst. This, for many voters, is the best Clinton can offer.

Fascism expresses itself in familiar and comforting national and religious symbols, which is why it comes in various varieties and forms. Italian fascism, which looked back to the glory of the Roman Empire, for example, never shared the Nazis’ love of Teutonic and Nordic myths. American fascism too will reach back to traditional patriotic symbols, narratives and beliefs.

Robert Paxton wrote in “The Anatomy of Fascism”:
The language and symbols of an authentic American fascism would, of course, have little to do with the original European models. They would have to be as familiar and reassuring to loyal Americans as the language and symbols of the original fascisms were familiar and reassuring to many Italians and Germans, as [George] Orwell suggested. Hitler and Mussolini, after all, had not tried to seem exotic to their fellow citizens. No swastikas in an American fascism, but Stars and Stripes (or Stars and Bars) and Christian crosses. No fascist salute, but mass recitations of the pledge of allegiance. These symbols contain no whiff of fascism in themselves, of course, but an American fascism would transform them into obligatory litmus tests for detecting the internal enemy.


Fascism is about an inspired and seemingly strong leader who promises moral renewal, new glory and revenge. It is about the replacement of rational debate with sensual experience. This is why the lies, half-truths and fabrications by Trump have no impact on his followers. Fascists transform politics, as philosopher and cultural critic Walter Benjamin pointed out, into aesthetics. And the ultimate aesthetic for the fascist, Benjamin said, is war.

Paxton singles out the amorphous ideology characteristic of all fascist movements.

Fascism rested not upon the truth of its doctrine but upon the leader’s mystical union with the historic destiny of his people, a notion related to romanticist ideas of national historic flowering and of individual artistic or spiritual genius, though fascism otherwise denied romanticism’s exaltation of unfettered personal creativity. The fascist leader wanted to bring his people into a higher realm of politics that they would experience sensually: the warmth of belonging to a race now fully aware of its identity, historic destiny, and power; the excitement of participating in a wave of shared feelings, and of sacrificing one’s petty concerns for the group’s good; and the thrill of domination.


There is only one way left to blunt the yearning for fascism coalescing around Trump. It is to build, as fast as possible, movements or parties that declare war on corporate power, engage in sustained acts of civil disobedience and seek to reintegrate the disenfranchised—the “losers”—back into the economy and political life of the country. This movement will never come out of the Democratic Party. If Clinton prevails in the general election Trump may disappear, but the fascist sentiments will expand. Another Trump, perhaps more vile, will be vomited up from the bowels of the decayed political system. We are fighting for our political life. Tremendous damage has been done by corporate power and the college-educated elites to our capitalist democracy. The longer the elites, who oversaw this disemboweling of the country on behalf of corporations—who believe, as does CBS Chief Executive Officer Leslie Moonves, that however bad Trump would be for America he would at least be good for corporate profit—remain in charge, the worse it is going to get.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby 82_28 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:05 pm

OK. There has to be something "central casting" wise within all this. It is meant to be confusing and totally off the rails. When one encounters confusion it is by design.

Casinos deliberately design their floors in order to physically/psychically confuse. Supermarkets deliberately let their distributors put items where they will be most noticed. Kids' shit gets placed down where they can see it. Everyone knows car dealerships are meant to be haggled with. People drive 15 miles out of the way to save $.03 on the gallon to get a deal. Sales are rigged in the interest of holidays and sports seasons. Books and magazines trend towards what we are meant to believe. The only way to overcome any kind of ailment is to trust an overpriced doctor. The only way to overcome the right is to vote in our first black president. The only way to save the Earth is to use a hybrid vehicle or electric one spilling millions of tons of chemical waste once the car is no longer deemed new enough.

Well, I could go on. . .

However, we're being fucked with. That much is true.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby NeonLX » Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:33 pm

The "fucked with" seems to be growing alarmingly, glaringly more intense. I have never felt a stronger sense of disenchantment with "society" than I do now. Maybe I'm purposely making myself into an outlier, but stuff seems to get more f'd up with each passing minute. Could be that the scarcity (either real or programmed) is getting close. I just don't know.

Now pardon me while I go find a good deal on a jacket made by The North Slope so I can look like the rest of the clones around this town.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:13 pm

I am completely disenchanted with the logic of political correctness yet I have no desire to call people abusive names as the condescending article above implies. My understanding of what is going on is actually by and large markedly different.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:41 pm

Pretty depressing that Chris Hedges version of a call to action in 2016 amounts to "Hey, You Kids Should Do Occupy Again."

It is to build, as fast as possible, movements or parties that declare war on corporate power, engage in sustained acts of civil disobedience and seek to reintegrate the disenfranchised—the “losers”—back into the economy and political life of the country.


Yeah, that will inspire West Virginia. Let's get some symbolic victories going!

Am I being too realistic here? I mean, cynical? Because the way Hedges casually frames that seems almost like winking black humor. There's a big escalation between those two concepts! From "let's have a protest" to "let's fix America's structural problems." I can't tell if he's implying that protesting will fix the system, or just outright calling for people to self-organize and replace the State altogether.

Maybe there's a program coming where the Pentagon will just starting funding activists directly rather than wasting time & money on infiltrating agents and compromising targets? (The non-profit sector might never recover, but I'm not sure that's bad.)

Anyways, what is "political life" even a euphemism for? Being invited to speak at Nation Institute events? He's talking about people who are going to be voting in 2016 as if they're stranded on an iceberg somewhere.
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fuck Chris Hedges

Postby IanEye » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:24 pm

The Democrats are playing a very dangerous game by anointing Hillary Clinton as their presidential candidate. She epitomizes the double-dealing of the college-educated elites, those who speak the feel-your-pain language of ordinary men and women, who hold up the bible of political correctness, while selling out the poor and the working class to corporate power.

The Republicans, energized by America’s reality-star version of Il Duce, Donald Trump, have been pulling in voters, especially new voters, while the Democrats are well below the voter turnouts for 2008. In the voting Tuesday, 5.6 million votes were cast for the Democrats while 8.3 million went to the Republicans. Those numbers were virtually reversed in 2008—8.2 million for the Democrats and about 5 million for the Republicans.



2008 :

Super Tuesday 2008, Super Duper Tuesday, Mega Tuesday, Giga Tuesday, Tsunami Tuesday, and The Tuesday of Destiny are names for February 5, 2008, the day on which the largest simultaneous number of state U.S. presidential primary elections in the history of U.S. primaries were held. Twenty-four states and American Samoa held either caucuses or primary elections for one or both parties on this date.
Furthermore, the week-long Democrats Abroad Global Primary began on this day.

As of February 2007, eight states planned to hold primary or caucus elections on Super Tuesday, February 5, 2008: Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Missouri, New Mexico Democrats, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Utah, and West Virginia Republicans. However to increase their importance in the candidate selection process, several states moved up their contests, which some pundits criticized as being "pure self-interest."
The following states changed their elections to February 5: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Idaho Democrats, Illinois, Kansas Democrats, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana Republicans, New Jersey, New York, and Tennessee.



2016 :

Super Tuesday in the 2016 presidential election was held on March 1, 2016. This date was dubbed the SEC Primary, since many of the participating states were represented in the U.S. Southeastern Conference for college athletics (five southern states).

The participating states included Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado (with caucuses), Georgia, Massachusetts, Minnesota (with caucuses), Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, and Virginia. Additionally, Republican caucuses were held in Alaska, North Dakota, and Wyoming. The territory of American Samoa held a Democratic caucus.



Gosh, how strange that Chris Hedges goes out of his way not to mention how different the two Tuesday's were.

2008 had the largest blue states in terms of population, California, Illinois, New York, and New Jersey. While 2016 did not have these states.
Add in the fact that Clinton and Obama started their 2008 campaigns in New York and Illinois respectively, they certainly weren't making any effort to get out the votes in those states, no.

Meanwhile, 2016 Super Tuesday is literally identified as the SEC Primary (red states).

Also, Hedges acts like Bernie Sanders doesn't even exist in terms of this essay.


I haven't trusted Chris Hedges for a long time.
He tends to treat his readers as if they are stupid.

.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:54 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:41 pm wrote:Pretty depressing that Chris Hedges version of a call to action in 2016 amounts to "Hey, You Kids Should Do Occupy Again."

It is to build, as fast as possible, movements or parties that declare war on corporate power, engage in sustained acts of civil disobedience and seek to reintegrate the disenfranchised—the “losers”—back into the economy and political life of the country.


Yeah, that will inspire West Virginia. Let's get some symbolic victories going!

Am I being too realistic here? I mean, cynical? Because the way Hedges casually frames that seems almost like winking black humor. There's a big escalation between those two concepts! From "let's have a protest" to "let's fix America's structural problems." I can't tell if he's implying that protesting will fix the system, or just outright calling for people to self-organize and replace the State altogether.


No, that was pretty much the same reaction I had reading that portion. As wonderful as Hedges can be about diagnosing our problems, his proposed solutions are woefully inadequate. I mean, if the prospect of Real American FascismTM is legitimately on the horizon in the coming Trump administration, I would think skipping fucking demonstrations and going straight to a General Strike just for starters might be the best prescription. But hell, I think we're fucked regardless.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:05 pm

stillrobertpaulsen » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:54 pm wrote:I think we're fucked regardless.


Of course we are, so is Greece. The Golden Dawn is providing the meaning, the security and the community that Hedges is talking about; it's a big part of what Fascism, Nationalism, populist movements are about.

And it's mad wild to me that Hedges would call upon the Left -- sorry, Jack, call upon boutique liberals -- to be precisely what they're not: tolerant of the white working class Lumpenproles their entire identity revolves around distancing themselves from. Those people are troglodytes, animal bigots on the wrong side of history, a rotting vestigial organ America doesn't need. A death cult of fossils.

And Trump gets defeated by making your trans-friendly atheist progressive movement more appealing to the Trump demographic? I love it! That should be an easy pivot from berating them for decades.

Yes, do that. ASAP. Let the outreach commence at once. I want to see Susan Sarandon and Seth McFarlane doing a black & white viral video about how "It's Time to Heal America." I want to hear what will.I.am cooks up in the studio with Shania Twain and Toby Keith. I want it all.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby chump » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:40 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:05 pm wrote:
stillrobertpaulsen » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:54 pm wrote:I think we're fucked regardless.


Of course we are, so is Greece. The Golden Dawn is providing the meaning, the security and the community that Hedges is talking about; it's a big part of what Fascism, Nationalism, populist movements are about.

And it's mad wild to me that Hedges would call upon the Left -- sorry, Jack, call upon boutique liberals -- to be precisely what they're not: tolerant of the white working class Lumpenproles their entire identity revolves around distancing themselves from. Those people are troglodytes, animal bigots on the wrong side of history, a rotting vestigial organ America doesn't need. A death cult of fossils.

And Trump gets defeated by making your trans-friendly atheist progressive movement more appealing to the Trump demographic? I love it! That should be an easy pivot from berating them for decades.

Yes, do that. ASAP. Let the outreach commence at once. I want to see Susan Sarandon and Seth McFarlane doing a black & white viral video about how "It's Time to Heal America." I want to hear what will.I.am cooks up in the studio with Shania Twain and Toby Keith. I want it all.



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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:53 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:05 pm wrote:
stillrobertpaulsen » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:54 pm wrote:I think we're fucked regardless.


Of course we are, so is Greece. The Golden Dawn is providing the meaning, the security and the community that Hedges is talking about; it's a big part of what Fascism, Nationalism, populist movements are about.

And it's mad wild to me that Hedges would call upon the Left -- sorry, Jack, call upon boutique liberals -- to be precisely what they're not: tolerant of the white working class Lumpenproles their entire identity revolves around distancing themselves from. Those people are troglodytes, animal bigots on the wrong side of history, a rotting vestigial organ America doesn't need. A death cult of fossils.

And Trump gets defeated by making your trans-friendly atheist progressive movement more appealing to the Trump demographic? I love it! That should be an easy pivot from berating them for decades.

Yes, do that. ASAP. Let the outreach commence at once. I want to see Susan Sarandon and Seth McFarlane doing a black & white viral video about how "It's Time to Heal America." I want to hear what will.I.am cooks up in the studio with Shania Twain and Toby Keith. I want it all.


Dude, this is such a load of bullshit. Very scattershot thinking. Like what did Susan Sarandon ever do to make white working class men feel excluded? Trans aside - that's an evolving and confusing category - where do you see "atheists" (which ones?) or "progressives" defining themselves through opposition/distinction from/berating of the white working class? (Or in any case more than the professional classes who've made it generally, since it is a thing to feel relieved about the higher income and easier lifestyle that I certainly don't have.) How does what you wrote here differ from the Foxnews attempts to create resentment against educated "elites" such as teachers, artists, etc. (Are teachers working class, by the way? They do have the biggest single union left...)

Also, you're mistaken about GD, certainly. They have been at the same peak for years because they turned out to be too Nazi for Greeks after all. (Also being tried rightfully for a slew of murders and assaults.) Right-wing "meaning givers" may yet come, but only from a new direction that might also reconstitute the GD followers under a different brand.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:09 am

JackRiddler » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:53 pm wrote:where do you see "atheists" (which ones?) or "progressives" defining themselves through opposition/distinction from/berating of the white working class?


Mostly on Facebook and Twitter, sometimes in person at dinners, parties and bars/shows. There's also a lot (a lot!) of evidence on display right in this thread -- plenty of pearl-clutching links about Trump supporters here.

I don't know how you're feigning ignorance over this when it's such a beloved pastime. What's Wrong With Kansas, Jack? Why do red states keep voting against their own economic self-interest?

As for Golden Dawn, I disagree.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:56 am



Doesn't that link show the GD is as Jack said: at the same point they have been for years?

Their vote seems consistent within half a percent while the actual number of people voting (for them and it seems overall) has been falling? the number of seats they hold has dropped from its intitial start but seems consistent at 17 or 18 for 3 elections.
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