The Mind controlled slaves flip out

[marmot]

Thanks Gouda, I'm a relative new-comer here to the board, and only know what's been discussed since Nov of 2006. I'll certainly do a search on svali and springmeier, and read with great interest the thread you've just linked us to. Again, thanks.

[sam jetty]

LilyPat, Stanford Research Institute is as dirty as they come. Some people say SRI is the "top NWO mind control organization in the United States."

Have you read Fritz Springmeier's The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave? If you haven't make sure you read the INTRODUCTION AND WARNING first. It's a thick and difficult read, but as far as I know there is not another soul out there (besides the perps) who has a better understanding of trauma-based mind control programming then Springmeier.

]

I printed out the "Introduction and Warning" and the first chapter and had a chance to read the first 24 pages, circle things and make notes in the margin, which was, by the way, a different and more satisfying way to read it than scrolling through it onscreen. His paper is full of typos, his ideas jump around incoherently, and he makes appeals to the reader to accept information without sources quite often with things like "you can't find this information yourself but trust me, it's out there" and "a very reliable British intelligence agent told me". Frankly, it's sloppy and unworthy of respect.

What's more, there is a premise of certain religious beliefs required to accept what he is purporting, for example, calling in demon spirits, as well as crap psychology mixed in with totally culturally loaded conceptions of religion and human development.

Although some of the things he claims might not be completely untrue, I can't take it seriously.

[philipacentaur]

I printed out the "Introduction and Warning" and the first chapter and had a chance to read the first 24 pages, circle things and make notes in the margin, which was, by the way, a different and more satisfying way to read it than scrolling through it onscreen. His paper is full of typos, his ideas jump around incoherently, and he makes appeals to the reader to accept information without sources quite often with things like "you can't find this information yourself but trust me, it's out there" and "a very reliable British intelligence agent told me". Frankly, it's sloppy and unworthy of respect.

What's more, there is a premise of certain religious beliefs required to accept what he is purporting, for example, calling in demon spirits, as well as crap psychology mixed in with totally culturally loaded conceptions of religion and human development.

Although some of the things he claims might not be completely untrue, I can't take it seriously.

I think this is an excellent first post, and not just because I agree with you.

[marmot]

...there is a premise of certain religious beliefs required to accept what he is purporting, for example, calling in demon spirits...

Absolutely true... to fully appreciate the dark depths of mind control which Springmeier's writing about one needs to have a certain worldview that accepts the reality of demonic spirits. In his "books"---however sloppy the writing is, he covers enormous ground, sometimes he's only able to throw something out, and only loosely connect it or not even connect it at all. But he puts it out there nevertheless, to perhaps substantiate other's findings, or to provide clues for others to follow. He's writing, I believe, primarily to those who are working with victims, painting a broad stroke with his brush. And paint he does. It would take days to read his books. I don't think he was primarily concerned about typos and such, but getting the information out there. He's going into an area so dark and deep that, of course, he can't academically reference his sources. We're not gonna find corraborating documents in the public arena on this. And again, if what he's reporting is true, his personal sources would necessarily be anonymous too. Granted, of course, I'm certain some of his information is disinformation, even much of the stuff he got from Cisco should be considered as distortions of the truth. However, there's not another researcher out there who has given us more insight into how the victims were programmed than Springmeier. Sure he's an imperfect man. And No! we shouldn't take everything as gospel truth, but read him, with scepticism, with rigourous intutition, with fear and trembling or whatever, but read him you must if you want to discover for yourself the twisted clues to a dark and insidious truth of what is going on in the world of systematic trauma-based mind control. He reveals controls, mechanisms and traps that were installed into the landscape, into the minds of the programmed, etc. etc., and I find it fascinating, absolutely tragic and fascinating. As an amatuer researcher in dissociative landscapes I've found no one else out there like "crazy" Springmeier. His insights and understandings on mind control are exquisitely profound. Discernment is the key when reading him. And if you'll accept my word on this, then please know, when you're dealing with trauma-based mind control your dealing in the realm of spirit, in the dark and evil realm of demonology.

[philipacentaur]

And if you'll accept my word on this, then please know, when you're dealing with trauma-based mind control your dealing in the realm of spirit, in the dark and evil realm of demonology.

Therein lies the problem with getting the scant bits of truth that are (possibly) buried within his research out to a wider audience. We're left with nothing but the promise of another true-believer's "word" that a spiritual world-view is required to understand the reality of the situation and the veracity of a writer's claims.

If there is truth in but one victim's claims, then someone like Fritz Springmeier is doing more harm than good by muddying the waters with dubious theorizing.

[tigre63]

I think there might be some other stuff about Springmeier somewhere on this board, but heres some good info bout ol' Fritz:

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board/v ... pringmeier

Dreams End telling it like it is, Hope someday he starts posting again.

[philipacentaur]

Dreams End telling it like it is, Hope someday he starts posting again.

I actually hope he doesn't. He's doing just fine on his own.

[LilyPatToo]

I've gone 'round and 'round with my attitude(s) toward Springmeier. I definitely reject the fundie religious stuff--and wish he'd not sprinkled it throughout his writings on mind control, since he's one of the very few people writing about it and it's a total turnoff for 99% of the people I know. Same problem (only much, much worse!) with David Icke, who again is one of the few people listening to survivors of mind control programs. And he too is not likely to be read by anyone likely to make a difference to the situation.

BUT....I've found *exact, precise* correspondences between what Springmeier in particular has written about the minutia of government mind control programming--tiny and highly unlikely details that I have had in my personal WTF? mind files for decades.

All this means, of course, is that he's gotten some accurate insider info from "Cisco Wheeler" or from other contacts. It does NOT make his basic demon-haunted views on mind control programming valid. At all. And I HATE the way it sucks in MC survivors who have been made susceptible to occult crap! It infuriates and frustrates the hell out of me to watch them invalidate themselves each time they open their mouths. The introduction of black magick into a serious discussion of mind control is the surest way I know to end all productive discussion. And I don't think that's accidental.....

I cannot shake the fear that he's either knowingly or unknowingly disseminating disinformation. The best stuff comes wrapped in truths, after all. But no one else--particularly no one on the Left--is even looking at the data or talking to survivors. So what to do?

LilyPat

[philipacentaur]

So what to do?

Someone needs to do some original research, rejecting entirely everything that has been done before. New interviews need to be conducted to support the research, and a neutral point of view needs to be assumed from the outset.

[LilyPatToo]

But even assuming that someone with serious credentials was willing to take it on, how would they know when they're encountering disinformation? ALL of us survivors have to be assumed to have been programmed with disinfo. No matter if we're certain that we recall doing something or that something happened to us, it could just as easily be a screen memory. And some screen memories appear to have been designed to not just confuse the hell out of us, but also to neatly invalidate us as soon as we open our mouths.

If the researcher concentrates on intelligence agency insiders, the same problem presents itself--how does the researcher know that what s/he's hearing isn't clever disinformation? Anyone who's made a study of the COINTELPRO operations of the 60's-70's knows how genuine it sounded. And since parts of professionally crafted disinformation ARE true, the lies are devilishly difficult to tease out sometimes.

How does one study a subject as covert and spun and disinfo-filled as mind control programs??

LilyPat

[marykmusic]

So, Lily, and others, are y'all suggesting that mind-control is not the same as ritual abuse? The results are certainly similar.

And I see black magick, whether on purpose (i.e. ritualized) or merely subtle, under the surface... involved any time Fear is used to control others. Especially when those others are children. --MaryK

[LilyPatToo]

The relationship between trauma-based mind control and ritual abuse is pretty well established, I think. At first it was difficult for me to really understand that, since I have no clear, unambiguous memories of RA, but I do have many circumstances in my consciously remembered past that are strongly suggestive of government MC.

However, I've yet to see a government MC survivor without a RA background of some sort (at least, as near as I can recall at the moment), but there are many survivors of RA who've never interacted with government intelligence agents in their entire lives. They're DID and have PTSD like us and very similar programming in many cases, but not acquired in labs.

For me, the black magick part is disturbing on a number of levels. I think most of it is pure (or should that be "impure") theater, but I've seen some bad things come of curses, even when the target had no idea they'd been cursed. So I guess I just try to avoid getting into the woo-woo stuff altogether--I can't tell what's real and what's not and it has a tendency to cause reflexive eye-rolling if a MC survivor talks about it outside of the paranormal community.

And some of it is used to disinform via distraction--if everyone goes merrily off into the fringe stratosphere babbling about aliens/spirits/etc. the very real human rights abuses are ignored. To me, the best chance we have of ever getting people to take us seriously is to stick to human crimes against other humans.

Just MHO, YMMV.

LilyPat

[marykmusic]

Precisely why the prosecutor in the RA case in Ponchatoula decided to go that way. Don't want to let it be known that black magick is real, close, and in charge of the country. --MaryK

[LilyPatToo]

Guess I was also influenced by watching how that victim/handler we knew torpedoed her own trial by insisting on making the SRA Cult part of the official record. I hate that doing so guaranteed a hostile/dismissive response from the judge and jury. It takes guts to stand up and insist that you watched your helpless baby daughter being sexually abused by Satanists, especially in this mass mind controlled culture.

IIRC, she was being backed up by a local Women's Task Force, too. Some people ARE waking up to this, but I fear that too many wealthy, powerful pedophiles are involved for it to be able to be blown wide open in this country. As much as I long to recover all my missing memories, I know that if they include this kind of abuse, I'll feel as much despair (at ever seeing justice) as anger. It shouldn't be that way.

LilyPat

[Occult Means Hidden]

a fascinating story of a woman who recently killed her husband. Says she was recruited since the age of 14 by a millionaire psychologist who forced her to marry.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/02/24/therapist.killing.ap/index.html

"Polk said her husband began abusing her while she was his teenage therapy patient, and argued that should be a mitigating factor in her sentencing. Her mother, Helen Bolling, told the court that her daughter deserved compassion "considering she has been in prison since she was 14 years old."

But Judge Laurel Brady said the relationship, although problematic, should not be considered in her sentencing because it was not the issue the jury determined at trial.

Jurors in the case did not find Polk credible and one referred to her as delusional. While testifying, Polk discussed secret government experiments and claimed that her psychic powers enabled her to predict the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, but said her husband prevented her from alerting authorities."