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Sez you. 'Wall Street traders' may set the price of the most often news-cast oil price, NYMEX west texas crude futures - the NYMEX or New York Mercantile Exchange is indeed located v.close to Wall Street (North End Avenue). Tapis Crude however, more significant in Aus petrol price, is traded in Asia and already over US$110/barrel. Are you arguing that Wall Street traders control both, and the rest? Based on your interpretation of Chavezs meaning by the word 'fair'.vigilant wrote:.. In a way, Hugo let the cat out of the bag in a subliminal way. Hugo's comment was based on the fact that he knows Wall Street Futures Traders set the price of a barrel oil and the price on a gallon of gasoline. Hugo is as not as polished as the rest of the big oil crooks and he let that cat peek out a little bit.....
Coupla failures here, in fact and in logic:Brentos wrote:..Oil prices shoot up right after the war in iraq. High oil prices can in the short(ish) term 'help' the US economy since it makes it easier for the US to export it's debt to other nations who require oil (bought in dollars). That and the falling dollar and futures trading can easily pump up the prices.
Actually Estulin can be read nodding along with Alex Jones claims that PO is a scam http://www.infowars.com/articles/interv ... _27_05.htm (halfway down), so i'm not clear what you think he says. If you, he or AJ have any proof that PO is a scam, i'm still waiting @ http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board/v ... sc&start=0Brentos wrote:..Not to say that oil, regardless whether abiotic or biotic can sustain ever increasing demand though. Perhaps the peak can be seen by the PTB (doubtful) and whats happening (post 9/11) is a means to curb consumption, like Daniel Estulin says.
WTF is a 'true' estimate? Many once-private & now open source estimates are available and doing well in predicting productionBrentos wrote:Other reasons I'm doubtful about PO extremity, is that
1. iirc, true estimates are secrets.
Where? Link please.Brentos wrote:2. More and more deep oil drills are bringing up a lot of oil
Well duh! If you're looking for the no-flakes-ever camp then you'll be looking a long, long time.Brentos wrote:3. I've read Mike Ruppert's fear mongering analysis which turned out to be bogus (massive rolling blackouts by 2007), among other criticisms (Leo Wanta), which made me realise, PO debate is potentially rigged.
So you don't need to know anything about an argument you cite? Faith based argument is for the religious, not the rigorous.Brentos wrote:4. The 1973 crisis has some peculiarities to it which others on the boards probably know more about..
Error of ommision; even if completely true - So? Correlation is not causation.Brentos wrote:.
5. oh yeah, oil prices shoot right up after the start of the iraq war and keep going up. Seems like there may be a correlation.
So does Mars, some say, yet Big Oil has strangely declined to rush in, even with the forced privatisation & union busting laws. Surely the same guys who lied about WMD & 'mission accomplished' wouldn't lie about oil reserves? (well not to oil companies anyway, hence their disinterest). And 'untapped' is flat untrue, Iraq has been extracting oil since 1927.Brentos wrote:.6. Iraq has potentially vast untapped oil reserves.
Maybe you just need to read more widely, or write more, if you have constructive suggestions.Sounder wrote:Peak Oil does not seem to be a scam, at least in the sense that a resource that is so widely used and produced must come to a point where (practically speaking) it runs out. My issue is with the lack of effort at imaginative reconstruction of our criteria for understanding (the way we see the world), so that we may come to focus on solutions more so than the problems.
This is an earlier reply relating to PO, no response or reflection; that's fine.
Sure we are, and i rejoice in our possibilities. But they don't create themselves. If we're going to radically reduce the amount of fossil fuels used in e.g. food, a shitload of work (physical, learning, deprogramming, compromise..) lies ahead of many of us. If we're going to stop genocidal & suicidal wars for our drug of choice, theres going to be some bruises, and probably some boring meetings, and blood, and many moments of inspired personal and collective courage. 'Suck it up' i believe fits the times, so long as that doesn't endorse fear-based passivity or credulity for fluffy thinking.Sounder wrote:slow_dazzle, thanks for your gracious offer, extended so that I may better support the assertion that Hubberts Peak is claptrap. First let me say that empirically speaking, you do have the stronger case. But then I am reminded of a Ford advert I saw while watching TV at a neighbor’s house. In this ad the camera sweeps through a one hundred-year arc, showing the engine design studio's, with their fantastic improvements and development over time. Oh please, gag me with a spoon. The implied assumption here is that; we get 'power' from burning things, and however much the particulars may change, this will not. This seems like defeatist and shallow thinking to me. We are better than this.
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