An idea about Palestine/Israel

[dada]

I have a great idea. It's not racist or anything; purely speculative. Let's ask the Israeli's to move to the moon.

[FourthBase]

Fuck off.

[FourthBase]

If this idea were ever proposed to a roomful of both Palestinians and Israelis, guess who would more likely be more outraged? Hint: Not the Palestinians.

If you think the idea is bad, fine. If you think it's racist or anti-Palestinian:

YOU. DO. NOT. UNDERSTAND. WHAT. I. AM. SAYING. READ. AGAIN.

[FourthBase]

I'll try to spell it out a little more. The Jews who most zealously pursued the Zionist dream were first infatuated with and then ultimately possessed by an irrational devotion to their homeland, by what they believed was a command to them to live in a certain land, by an absolute equating of home and land. The dream blinded them to far more sensible options under consideration, indirectly contributed to the slaughter of millions of their own kind, and has since led directly to over a half century more of slaughter, and perhaps unknown devastation in the future. The fundamental premise of my idea is that, even though they have never zealously pursued another's land like the zealous Zionists, even though their desire to remain in their land is completely utterly justified...if the right offer were made, Palestinians should not make the same mistake of being beholden to the land where their people happened to have been born, not if doing so carries with it the condition of being persecuted and slaughtered, a condition which is being imposed on them by the descendants of those same zealous Zionists, and apparently will not cease to be imposed on them if they stay. The Palestinians should be willing, if need be, to make a wiser choice than the Jews did a century ago, and a half century ago yet again. Have I been understood yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorialist

[Penguin]

Yea, I heard you just fine the first time.
You know, many palestinians have left. Like a friend of mine, her parents...They left in the beginning of the 70s, after some of their Christian family members were shot by Israelis (by mistake as always). Note that they were peaceful Christians, and have been ever since, Peaceful, but bitter. (And did you know that palestinians arent usually allowed to leave their territories? They dont have airports, or harbors..Theyre totaĺly closed in by Israel. They cant leave, they cant travel, they cant get out...Or if they do, they cant get back in)

Ive actually been there several times, and I think your idea is totally unrealistic. You could just as well try to get the Israelis to leave - good luck with that! You know, these kind of transfers havent had a history of working out to anyones benefit (my own people having been target of forced relocations too), and I cant think of any one example of it ever working out. Can you point me to some?

[Penguin]

Yeah, something like that.

I'm fucking disgusted that you would call my idea ethnic cleansing. It's not. Call it whatever the fuck you want, I guess. I don't care what you call it, ultimately.

Removal of people, based on ethnic origin, from an area? Check.
Ethnic cleansing...
Besides, thats what Israel wants. It wants every last filthy arab out of their god-promised lands. And yes, its like that. Yea it is. Go fucking take a look there if you havent yet, then get back to me.

[FourthBase]

Removal of people, based on ethnic origin, from an area? Check.
Ethnic cleansing...
Besides, thats what Israel wants. It wants every last filthy arab out of their god-promised lands. And yes, its like that. Yea it is. Go fucking take a look there if you havent yet, then get back to me.

Removal. Forced removal, yes. Is that what I'm talking about, at all? NO. Unchecked. Would it matter a fucking bit what Israel wants, if it were also what Palestinians decided they wanted? Palestinians must ask themselves: Is it good for the Palestinians?

Ive actually been there several times, and I think your idea is totally unrealistic.

This the kind of input I was hoping for, except more explanation.

You could just as well try to get the Israelis to leave - good luck with that!

No, the Palestinians have far more "incentive" to leave, thanks to the Israelis. But if they were just as unwilling to listen...such is life. I'd beg them to understand the idea completely first, though.

You know, these kind of transfers havent had a history of working out to anyones benefit (my own people having been target of forced relocations too), and I cant think of any one example of it ever working out. Can you point me to some?

Again, where I have talked about a forced relocation? That's NOT MY IDEA. And if the Jews had made the right choice, there would probably exist a shining example of my idea, more or less. Just because there is no precedent for something, doesn't mean it won't ever work. And it sucks how people telling me things I already know, things I've already posted about knowing, in this thread.

(And did you know...

YES, I KNOW.

And yes, its like that. Yea it is.

YES, I KNOW.

[FourthBase]

Since that was the first post where I was forced to repeat myself almost entirely, only correcting a misunderstanding while adding nothing new, and since there's no Alice, and since I'd rather eat dog shit than continually repeat myself over and over when there's zero need for it, and since I've imagined and composed and posted most of what I could probably figure out about the idea, btw totally on my own except for the "stimulation" you all provided (oh, well, fucking Sepka of all people helped a little), and since a well-expressed good idea should be good enough to speak for itself: I'm orphaning this thread now. Don't forget to re-read what I've wrote if you don't understand it yet, and once you do understand it, go ahead and re-read it all again.

[Penguin]

Im not sure who is not understanding here...
Go ahead, you should contact the Israeli government with your idea. I think they might be symphatetic. They could ask the US government for funding, since US is who is paying for the illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian land, as we speak. I think they could foot the bill, and move Palestine to some uninhabited place. Maybe Alaska? I hear theres lots of room there. Or maybe Greenland, if Denmark can be persuaded. Or Iceland, theyre all pretty nice and low populated societies.

[Penguin]

And if you think offering money to move away is not forcing, then I dont know what is. I think many palestinians presently would be delighted to get the fuck out of there - if they had a place to go. And they just wont let them. Where would you pay them to go? And who will accept that?

[FourthBase]

And just as I orphan it...a glimmer of light shines despite itself.

Im not sure who is not understanding here...
Go ahead, you should contact the Israeli government with your idea. I think they might be symphatetic. They could ask the US government for funding, since US is who is paying for the illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian land, as we speak. I think they could foot the bill, and move Palestine to some uninhabited place.

I am only considering contacting both sides, not sure yet. As I said above, the US as well as other nations would be morally obliged to contribute large funds, to correct their role in the big fuck-up. And yes, as we speak. I know.

Maybe Alaska? I hear theres lots of room there. Or maybe Greenland, if Denmark can be persuaded. Or Iceland, theyre all pretty nice and low populated societies.

So if it was racist to mention Mexico, wouldn't it be just as racist to propose the opposite as if they would necessarily reject a cold climate? Or is neither thing racist? (Shit, we all might be moving north if the earth keeps melting, so your places would actually give them a headstart. Thoughtful of you!)

And if you think offering money to move away is not forcing, then I dont know what is.

Hmmm...how about: Forcing is.

I think many palestinians presently would be delighted to get the fuck out of there

Really???? How many?

- if they had a place to go.

Hence, my idea.

And they just wont let them.

But if there were a place to go...

"I think they might be symphatetic."

Where would you pay them to go? And who will accept that?

Where would they want to go, where would they be willing to go? Where would they be willing to accept? If they don't want to go, if they're not willing to go, then...they don't go! They just suffer and die! Just like what's happening right now! Did you know??!!

Okay, now I'm abandoning this thread. Keep the light on!

[Sounder]

FB wrote...

But for instance, had the Jews established Israel in Uganda, I'm betting whatever western-based funds they had (especially if each had the equivalent of $300K) would have taken them pretty fucking far toward the good life there.

Yeah those Ugandans do not really need their country, or, or you could ship them to America, surely they would be better off in wonderful America. Maybe we can ship them to Texas; those are some big hearted people. You do not see where this is going? Fine. I do not ‘understand’ you? Fine. There is nothing to 'understand' here FB. It is a null set; there is no evil free context. I for one feel that I will have more success in life if approach it as it is rather than as some idealized personal projection.

[Penguin]

So if it was racist to mention Mexico, wouldn't it be just as racist to propose the opposite as if they would necessarily reject a cold climate? Or is neither thing racist? (Shit, we all might be moving north if the earth keeps melting, so your places would actually give them a headstart. Thoughtful of you!)

No, you just aint getting it. Those places are among the least populated areas - and you know why? All easily arable, good land is in high demand..Theres little people up here north, since its fucking unpleasant to scrape a living off the land here. Its cold, summer is short, winter long, crops not so good... You wont be able to find any nation willing to take a few million people inside their borders. No you wont. Not in this world.

The neighbouring arab countries? Yeah, their governments are just as nice as the rest of the bunch - and they sure dont need several million people more. No matter who would pay them what.

You know, this whole bullshit affair started with
"A LAND WITHOUT PEOPLE, FOR A PEOPLE WITHOUT LAND"

And that was a fucking monumental lie. Where did that get us?

And youre forgetting that Jerusalem is host to one of the holiest places of muslims - the Dome of the Rock. You should look at that demon Jahweh and his two mirror image religions for the reasons of this land love on bothe Jewish and Muslim side - they are basically the same religion, with some tweaking to get em opposed nicely. Halal, Kosher! And dont forget Christians, thats their holiest as well. That area is a religious nutpot, first and foremost. And a nice powderkeg to explode all three religions. Its got nothing to do with anything else, really.

[hmm]

It's completely screwy

Okay, and I can obviously see why it might be since it's my idea, but...why?

You don't deserve anything more than the answer I gave you. What you are proposing is ethnic cleansing. If you were talking about any group of people other than the Palestinians, you'd have been banned from most political forums already.

Um, no. Everyone else gets what I'm trying to say, so try again.

it smells like fascist ethnic cleansing to me, blame the victim??
relocate the victim?

The zionists existed long before hitler was conceived, incase you didnt know.
its how it the problems in Palestine started, rich zionists in the late 19th and early 20th century buying up palestinian farms and relocating a 100,000 or so jewish people from europe to Palestine.

To me, the institutionalised racism that this thought of yours exposes is staggering.

Maybe instead the jewish people could leave and stop terrorising the Palestinians in their own country and stop turning it into a giant ghetto/concentration camp.

Or maybe we could train them and arm them with apache's and tanks and nuclear weapons like we did with the Israeli's and then the whole terrorism/suicide bomber problem would be a thing of the past...

anything but rewarding the bully...

hmm..

[Penguin]

Spot on, hmm.