Dora the Explorer Waterboards Boots the Monkey!

[Seamus OBlimey]

What baffles me the most is the seemingly sane and literate folks who defend the constant stream of outlandish, it-would-be-hilarious-if-it-wasn't-terribly-sad word salad diarrhea emerging from the manatee and splattering into this forum. Guess what? He's not "onto something." He might be "on something" and, if not, definitely should be "on something" of the make-the-voices-go-away variety.

It would all be pure comedy if it weren't so damned depressing to see such schizophrenic disassociation writ large. Really, if he wrote it as satire or in the spirit of play it would be engaging. But as a description of reality... just plain sad.

If I thought you meant me I'd suggest we're so used to it we see it everywhere. If you you don't see the militaristic themes in Dora the Explorer, Lara Croft and a thousand other characters and creations then maybe you're ignoring something..

Paint Your Windows White

[professorpan]

Seeing "militaristic themes" is one thing. Themes are often in the eye of the beholder, or they can be cultural artifacts without being deliberately inserted. Of course themes can be embedded, for artistic or other, less savory, purposes. But suggesting that every bit of pop minutiae is infested with CIA linguistic trickery is as silly as believing that all rock music is manipulated to lure young people into Satanism. I've met those people, and they sound an awful lot like Hugh, and they have their evidence (backward recordings, symbolism in cover art, interpretation of lyrics) to wave in your face while they harangue you for not seeing it.

It's a common red flag symptom in psychopathology when people start insisting that everything around them is embedded with secret messages. It's particularly troublesome when they are not swayed by objective, well-intentioned, reasoned arguments to the contrary, but instead dig in deeper and get angry at those who point out the flaws and absurdities. Witness Hugh's venom and hostility even in the face of reasonable debunking or polite questioning.

And I'm sorry, but someone can beat me in the face for hours with army propaganda manuals and journalistic accounts of military/media collusion and I still will not buy into the schizoid word game ARG promoted by our water mammal friend.

[brainpanhandler]

Seeing "militaristic themes" is one thing. Themes are often in the eye of the beholder, or they can be cultural artifacts without being deliberately inserted. Of course themes can be embedded, for artistic or other, less savory, purposes. But suggesting that every bit of pop minutiae is infested with CIA linguistic trickery is as silly as believing that all rock music is manipulated to lure young people into Satanism. I've met those people, and they sound an awful lot like Hugh, and they have their evidence (backward recordings, symbolism in cover art, interpretation of lyrics) to wave in your face while they harangue you for not seeing it.

It's a common red flag symptom in psychopathology when people start insisting that everything around them is embedded with secret messages. It's particularly troublesome when they are not swayed by objective, well-intentioned, reasoned arguments to the contrary, but instead dig in deeper and get angry at those who point out the flaws and absurdities. Witness Hugh's venom and hostility even in the face of reasonable debunking or polite questioning.

And I'm sorry, but someone can beat me in the face for hours with army propaganda manuals and journalistic accounts of military/media collusion and I still will not buy into the schizoid word game ARG promoted by our water mammal friend.

Fair enough, but what evidence would suffice?

[SonicG]

Well said PP. The CIA/intelligence agency infiltration in the mass media is in fact well documented, as HMW shows by those books mentioned, and it is a given that mainstream media holds up the same values as mainstream culture. There is no need for covert, subliminal coding since the mainstream culture as a whole, including institutions such as school and sports, overtly desensitize and stifle critical thinking. The claim that intelligence agencies can only recruit by sending out subliminal memes is patently absurd and the proof is in the fact that, say, the Mossad, or the SVR or China's intelligence agency have no problems filling their ranks.

[brainpanhandler]

But suggesting that every bit of pop minutiae is infested with CIA linguistic trickery

The claim that intelligence agencies can only recruit by sending out subliminal memes is patently absurd

These are exaggerations and are not accurate representations of what Hugh claims. You can both make valid points without resorting to this.

[Seamus OBlimey]

schizoid word game ARG

Here we go again.

[lupercal]

One reason I'm inclined to agree with HMW's analysis of Diego and Dora is that the covert recruiting coincides perfectly with the open recruiting of Latinos in Spanish language popular media. In fact not so long ago I heard a CIA recruiting ad on a local all-cumbia radio station that unlike most other ads had enough English in it to very clearly identify the sponsor.

Another reason I have no trouble believing the spooks are desperate or let's say eager to reel in domestic bilingual recruits is that the biggest popular demonstrations of the last several decades were the April 2006 immigration rights protests that saw hundreds of thousands of protesters in several cities pouring into the streets:


ATLANTA, April 11, 2006
"¡Si, Se Puede!" Say Immigrants
Rallies In Dozens Of Cities Compared By Some To Civil Rights Campaigns

(CBS/AP) Tens of thousands of immigrants spilled into the streets in dozens of cities across the nation Monday in peaceful protests that some compared to the civil rights campaigns led by the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and Cesar Chavez.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/ ... 4316.shtml

Now if there's one thing spooks don't like, it's popular demonstrations they don't themselves gin up, meaning they probably caught hell from their paymasters for not infiltrating and hijacking this one like they've so successfully neutered the peace movement. So I'd be very surprised if they WEREN'T recruiting bilingual agents every which way including kid's cartoons.

[SonicG]

But suggesting that every bit of pop minutiae is infested with CIA linguistic trickery

The claim that intelligence agencies can only recruit by sending out subliminal memes is patently absurd

These are exaggerations and are not accurate representations of what Hugh claims. You can both make valid points without resorting to this.

Yes I suppose that "only" doesn't belong but the naming of characters in a 1997 Demi Moore mega-flop is pretty much "pop minutiae...
I hate to cut and run but despite my small post count I have been following RigInt since the beginning and I formed my opinion about HMW years ago so I have little interest in debating his "facts".

[brainpanhandler]

But suggesting that every bit of pop minutiae is infested with CIA linguistic trickery

The claim that intelligence agencies can only recruit by sending out subliminal memes is patently absurd

These are exaggerations and are not accurate representations of what Hugh claims. You can both make valid points without resorting to this.

Yes I suppose that "only" doesn't belong but the naming of characters in a 1997 Demi Moore mega-flop is pretty much "pop minutiae...
I hate to cut and run but despite my small post count I have been following RigInt since the beginning and I formed my opinion about HMW years ago so I have little interest in debating his "facts".

[SonicG]

every

Give him time, mate.

[wintler2]

.. what is far more likely however, and quite in line with many of the proposals of one Mr. HMW, is that from all of the countless starving shlock writers churning out reams of whatever sticks, it is the directives from the connected owners that lead the agendas of the editors, and this is how tendentious material repeatedly finds its way into the most popular channels. ..

That is standard procedure as i understand it. With so many movies wanting to be made, the chain of decisionmakers (funders, producers, director, script & screenwriters) on any movie really can tinker with the story, script, direction, etc to suit their tastes and decide how hard they'll push for any particular movie to be made. I'd be surprised if HMW critics claim that is not the case.

The extra yard that i think HMW is arguing is that those tastes are often set by alphabet agencies according to carefully tracked and mapped propaganda agendas. I don't find that a stretch, its just a question of extent or the dominance of propaganda themes among mere profitseeking themes, and the sophistication of ideas and symbology used. I thank HMW for working to provoke thought and discussion about them.



That all of the coincidences HMWs documents are trashed wholesale by many of his critics tells me they have no useful contribution to make.

That they routinely get away with breaking the no-disinfo-agent-allegations rule of this board is this boards most egregarious hypocrisy.

That they routinely pathologise HMW as mentally disturbed is sickening, and reminiscent of the not-like-us rationalisations of bullies everywhere.

[Penguin]

That is standard procedure as i understand it. With so many movies wanting to be made, the chain of decisionmakers (funders, producers, director, script & screenwriters) on any movie really can tinker with the story, script, direction, etc to suit their tastes and decide how hard they'll push for any particular movie to be made. I'd be surprised if HMW critics claim that is not the case.

The extra yard that i think HMW is arguing is that those tastes are often set by alphabet agencies according to carefully tracked and mapped propaganda agendas. I don't find that a stretch, its just a question of extent or the dominance of propaganda themes among mere profitseeking themes, and the sophistication of ideas and symbology used. I thank HMW for working to provoke thought and discussion about them.



That all of the coincidences HMWs documents are trashed wholesale by many of his critics tells me they have no useful contribution to make.

That they routinely get away with breaking the no-disinfo-agent-allegations rule of this board is this boards most egregarious hypocrisy.

That they routinely pathologise HMW as mentally disturbed is sickening, and reminiscent of the not-like-us rationalisations of bullies everywhere.

How I see it too.
But Hugh, you do do the same thing, just look at the Synchronicity thread.
(Calling others CIA agents, disinfo, timewaste, irrational crap etc).

It interests me (and I know what Ive lived through), neverthless, and we should have some respect for others' opinions.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

I've analyzed Dora and Diego booklets, not the tv show. Have you?
'Dora the Explorer' and 'Go Diego Go' are Nickelodeon.

Nickelodeon is Viacom. Think Viacom would do psyops for kidz the way CIA-Disney does? Oh, yeah.

Here's something else about Viacom-Nickelodeon and kidz.

I found at a Family Services center a pile of Nickelodeon 'talk to your kids about alcohol' pamphlets.
Upon examination they seemed to not be designed to actually deter under-age drinking. Just the opposite.

When I examined the fine print on the back that was almost unreadable, I learned that the pamphlets were created by Nickelodeon in partnership with the alcohol industry's PR front group called The Century Council.
Just like the tobacco industry's shill organization called The Tobacco Institute.

http://www.centurycouncil.org/members

Building upon a longstanding history of responsibility and recognizing the power of collective action, the distilled spirits industry created The Century Council in 1991 as an independent, national, not-for-profit organization.

Nickelodeon Century Council - Google Search

1. Ask. Listen. Learn. - The Century Council

"The Century Council. © 2004 Viacom International Inc. All Rights Reserved. Nickelodeon, Nick Jr., NickJr.com and all related titles, logos and characters ..."
www.nick.com/ads/asklistenlearn/parents/home/

2. Century Council

"kidsbody_content."
www.nick.com/ads/asklistenlearn/kids/

3. Nickelodeon

"The Century Council is a leader in the fight to eliminate drunk driving and underage drinking and promotes responsible decision making regarding beverage ..."
www.centurycouncil.org/partnerslistdeta ... index.html

4. Heather Mitts in Nickelodeon Magazine

"22 May 2009 ... The Century Council is a leader in the fight to eliminate drunk driving and underage drinking and promotes responsible decision making ..."
www.centurycouncil.org/content/heather- ... n-magazine

5. DELEG - Michigan Liquor Control Commission, Century Council, and ...

"Michigan Liquor Control Commission, Century Council, and Nickelodeon Teaming Up with Congressman Dale Kildee for an "Ask, Listen, Learn" Event on Thursday, ..."
www.michigan.gov/dleg/0,1607,7-154-1057 ... --,00.html

.....

19. Century Council - SpinProfiles

"Nickelodeon and the Century Council, a liquor-industry front group, recently launched a multi-media education program on alcohol aimed at parents and ..."
www.spinprofiles.org/index.php/Century_Council

20. Hispanic PR Wire - New Program To Fight Underage Drinking Now ...

"The Century Council joins forces with Leading National Hispanic Organizations and Nickelodeon to launch Pregunte. Escuche. Aprenda. ..."
www.hispanicprwire.com/news.php?l=in&id=5036

Catch #20? "The Century Council joins forces with Leading National Hispanic Organizations and Nickelodeon..."

Fox, meet henhouse. Recruitable Latins in the US.

I've already written about how the psychology of risk aversion is overcome by smoking and drinking and this helps military recruiting.
This is why psyops films, including CIA-Disney, for decades have encouraged kidz to drink and smoke long before any brand was ever shown on the screen as a 'product placement' deal.

Psyops entertainment is loaded with pro-industry and pro-government propaganda because their goals are interlinked and interdependent.

That's Nickelodeon for you. Fascism for Kidz.

[compared2what?]

I'm still curious about where Piaget enters into it. As I think I was back on page two or something. Wait. I'll go check. All right. Fine. Page three.

But I'm referring to this, which followed a directive to try Piaget:

Piaget is not as state-of-the-art on every single aspect of childhood development as he used to be, you know. Although his work is and was very influential, as well as quite delightful to engage with philosophically. As well as quite complex. It is, of course, a matter of opinion, but I'd also say that its value derives from his exceptional -- indeed, almost visionary -- gifts as an epistemological theoretician rather than as an empirical research scientist.

Anyway. Long story short. I'm confused and have a question.

What principle of Piaget and/or developmental psychology are you directing me to try? The influence of psychosocial power dynamics on cognitive apprehensions of what is and isn't "right" in the sense of "proper"? Because he didn't hold that to be the be-all and end-all of either moral or intellectual development in childhood, IIRC. Although it's been a while, I do admit. But just inherently, he wasn't into be-alls and end-alls of that kind as a matter of....You'd kind of have to say "moral principle," I suppose. That's kind of one of the things that makes him so delightful.

Anyway. Could you unpack the shorthand? I don't understand it. For which I take my 100 percent of fifty percent of the responsibility, needless to say.

But, you know. It's enough of an area of interest, that I'd like to understand

Hugh?

[ultramegagenius]

It is a mistake to think that we Americans in the belly of the beast have a say in the government. That is a well-sustained myth.

We live under the most heavily fortified military government which is nuclear hardened and insulated against all outside influence.

It is also supported by massive proxy armies called corporations, some of which have as much money as other countries.

After the social unrest of the 1960s-70s, the National inSecurity State solidified its hold on media, disconnected the public from Congress, disconnected Congress from the Pentagon and CIA...all to create an autonomous mil-intel culture insulated from public opinion and legislation.

It still needs to fool the public to get recruits and keep down resistance.
So info war (education/activism) and morale operations are the Achilles heel of this beast.

this is a hyper-brilliant insight, which strikes at the root of the imperialist system: the alphabet agencies spread disinformation in order to sustain the class structure that undergirds the same stratefied society that patronizes those agencies. this was the point i was getting at in the quote so graciously excised by wintler2. although HMV does make some hardy reaches, his underlying logic is sound. professorpan, on the other hand, only comes out of his hidey-hole in order to heap invective and patronizing garbage upon one sincere poster. feh! a flamethrower upon your beachfront pill-box, sir.

i must say, now that the main blog has gone defunct, the numerous posts of HMW do soon come to mind when recollecting this fine site.