Who Parked The Moon?

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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:35 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:Do you ever wonder wrote:

(1) Even the Greeks knew the world wasn't flat.

(2) Wasn't that a Dark Ages concept?


The Greeks, while aware the Earth was a globe, had no idea that space was relatively without gravity. Had they been so aware, Atlas would have had the easiest job of all and never would have shrugged.

(2) - So I had thought. Perhaps someone has earlier references to the Earth being flat?


I just watched the Carl Sagan piece on Erostothenes who found the circumference of the earth using sticks and measurements of distance, 2200 years ago in ancient Egypt. Presumably their society previously believed the earth was flat.
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:24 am

While Erastosthenes, a Greek living in Alexandria, is reported to be the individual first discovering the approximate circumference of Earth, I believe he was in Egypt to learn, and it seems he learned well their lessons. It should be obvious that the Egyptians held the keys to the world's ancient knowledge and had long been aware the Earth was globular. He merely reported what the Egyptian priests taught him.
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:02 am

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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Stephen Morgan » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:37 pm

DoYouEverWonder wrote:Image

Even the Greeks knew the world wasn't flat.

Wasn't that a Dark Ages concept?


All seafaring societies require an advanced knowledge of the stars and potentially of the roundness of the earth. Of course many systems of mythology, such as the Norse Eddas, contain blythe passing mentions of the flatness of the earth, but it's more something for myths than for real life beliefs. Like Wizards, if we put aside the quote in my sig.

Iamwhomiam wrote:The Greeks, while aware the Earth was a globe, had no idea that space was relatively without gravity. Had they been so aware, Atlas would have had the easiest job of all and never would have shrugged.


Atlas's job, of course, was holding up the sky while standing on the earth, not holding up the earth while standing on nothing. Turtles all the way down, and that.

(2) - So I had thought. Perhaps someone has earlier references to the Earth being flat?


Well, the epic of Gilgamesh sort of assumes it, yes. Not sure I can find anything earlier than that. But even in the middle ages people knew it was round, at least educated people and sailors.

Luther Blissett wrote:I just watched the Carl Sagan piece on Erostothenes who found the circumference of the earth using sticks and measurements of distance, 2200 years ago in ancient Egypt. Presumably their society previously believed the earth was flat.


I don't know the exact size of the earth, but I do know it isn't flat.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Laodicean » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:05 pm

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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby brainpanhandler » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:53 pm





"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:08 am

Mr. Morgan, I believe you've read more into my statement than I wrote, for nowhere had I alluded to Atlas holding anything aloft other than the weightless heavens, which I stated I thought quite clearly. Sorry for your misunderstanding.
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Stephen Morgan » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:06 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:Mr. Morgan, I believe you've read more into my statement than I wrote, for nowhere had I alluded to Atlas holding anything aloft other than the weightless heavens, which I stated I thought quite clearly. Sorry for your misunderstanding.


You said that a knowledge of the lack of apparent gravity in space would lead to the belief that Atlas had an easy job, implicitly because he is in space and holding something up, which is easier without gravity pulling you down. You and what you're holding up. Whereas Atlas was mythologically believe to be upon the earth where there is gravity, holding up the sky. Therefore a knowledge of the lack of gravity in space would have no effect on him because he had set his feet upon the earth.

"The Greeks, while aware the Earth was a globe, had no idea that space was relatively without gravity. Had they been so aware, Atlas would have had the easiest job of all and never would have shrugged."

That's what you said, that had the greeks known the true workings of extra planetary gravity they would have believed Atlas to have an easy job, which is to say that the lack of state of gravity in space would have an effect upon Atlas and his load, which would only be the case if the titan chappy was in space holding up the earth, which happens to be a common misconception.

But the lack of gravity in space would not have given Atlas an easier job because he isn't in space holding up the earth, he's on the earth holding up one corner of the sky. Therefore has the greeks known "that space was relatively without gravity" it would have had no effect on whether Atlas "had the easiest job of all" because he was on the earth under the normal surface conditions of gravity.

If anything it's the roundness of the earth which should have given him an easy job as the sky is prsumably equidistant from the surface over the entire circumference of the earth, meaning the uniform effects of gravity would hae effect in all directions and there would be no need for a Titan, or briefly Hercules, to hold the entire weight of the dome of the firmament, but simply to balance it so that the gravity of the earth holds it in place.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Stephen Morgan » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:07 pm

But, you know, if that's not what you meant that's fine too.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:29 pm

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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby justdrew » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:32 pm

and now for a comment from the "I only read the subject" school of internet commentary...

"Who Parked The Moon?" your lights are on...
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby justdrew » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:19 pm

Folklore Confirmed: The Moon's Phase Affects Rainfall
by Kristen Minogue on 6 October 2010

The Zuni Indians thought a red moon brought water. Seventeenth-century English farmers believed in a "dripping moon," which supplied rain depending on whether its crescent was tilted up or down. Now scientists have found evidence for another adage: Rain follows the full and new phases of the moon.

Most studies on the weather and moon phases appeared in the 1960s and seemed to lend credence to lunar folklore. Researchers detected more peaks in rainfall in the days after the full and new moons, for example. Recently, three researchers decided to revive the issue when they stumbled across a link between moon phases and stream runoff while working on another project. They will soon publish in Geophysical Research Letters one of the most comprehensive studies yet, with more than a century of data from across the continental United States.

The researchers, a team comprised of geographers and climatologists from Arizona State University (ASU), Tempe, and the National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) in Asheville, North Carolina, first analyzed their original stream runoff finding in more depth, pulling data from almost 11,000 U.S. Geological Survey stations on inland streams that had runoff measurements from as far back as 1900. After calculating the moon's phase for each measurement, they discovered a slight increase in stream flow around the quarter moon, halfway between the full and new moons.

That by itself didn't mean the moon directly affected rain—a previous study suggested that tides could be raising the water table, feeding the higher stream levels. To show a link to rainfall, the researchers turned to the U.S. Historical Climatology Network, a database with daily precipitation information for more than 1200 stations from as early as 1895. True to farmers' wisdom, precipitation tended to rise a few days before the quarter moon.

It's not a strong link. "The lunar variations don't, for example, explain the Pakistani floods," says Peter Thorne, a climate scientist at NCDC, who was not part of the research. But they do seem to account for 1% to 2% of the total changes in rainfall or stream runoff. "It's a real effect, but it's a real small effect," Thorne says.

The researchers still aren't sure how the moon exerts this effect. Most guesses also come from the 1960s and '70s. Back then, some scientists suggested that the moon's orbit could distort the magnetosphere, a region of ionized particles surrounding Earth's protective magnetic field. This might allow more particles from space into the atmosphere, where they could trigger rain when they collide with clouds. Others speculated that the moon's orbit could increase the amount of meteoric dust reaching Earth, which could also trigger rain when it hit clouds, or that the moon could create a pressure bulge that would affect storm systems—a hypothesis floated by the study's lead author, Randall Cerveny of ASU Tempe.

Still, says Cerveny, the true mechanism remains elusive. "We've kind of taken it back one link," Cerveny says. "Hopefully, other people are going to work the chain back to the ultimate cause."
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby KeenInsight » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:42 pm

Montag wrote:Where does one find this "true history of the Earth"? I'd like to read it.


Burned at the Library of Alexandria.
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby 82_28 » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:51 pm

KeenInsight wrote:
Montag wrote:Where does one find this "true history of the Earth"? I'd like to read it.


Burned at the Library of Alexandria.


True dat!

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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby stickdog99 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:52 pm

Geological life indicates subsurface microbial life.
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