David Icke Superthread

[seemslikeadream]

So Rory who do you think, of the two, was a more dangerous man on the planet, David Icke or Winston Churchill?

SLAD - - I'm sorry your holocaust thread got locked.

I've only seen vids of Icke presentations. By reading comments in this thread I can see how his rhetoric is harmful to society at large, by distracting from and marginalizing real horrors.

I think it's human nature to prefer imaginary horrors. I can imagine why he attracts the people he does.

no good comes from being afraid to say something....from posting... labeled by six degrees

[Project Willow]

slim, do you have any thoughts on the Brice Taylor / Arizona Wilder stuff?

Don't bother with all that, I already heard the fuck off loud and clear, from both of you.

I wish I could take my story away from you, and from Icke. You're not trustworthy.

No wonder people never speak out. In this culture speaking out is only providing another product for other people to discard or use for their own purposes. There is never any positive change.

[Searcher08]

slim, do you have any thoughts on the Brice Taylor / Arizona Wilder stuff?

Don't bother with all that, I already heard the fuck off loud and clear, from both of you.

I wish I could take my story away from you, and from Icke. You're not trustworthy.

No wonder people never speak out. In this culture speaking out is only providing another product for other people to discard or use for their own purposes. There is never any positive change.

What ????

When you said you felt I'm not trustworthy, I felt sad, because trust is a very important personal value.

I was asking for your opinion on an Intuition on a forum called Rigorous Intuition, I thought you would be happy to add the Rigour if she thought I was missing that.

[Project Willow]

There is no usefulness in my saying anything further in this thread except that my feelings expressed just there are really meant for Icke, and his supporters. I'm sorry that I projected them onto you. I don't know exactly where you stand.

[Searcher08]

There is no usefulness in my saying anything further in this thread except that my feelings expressed just there are really meant for Icke, and his supporters. I'm sorry that I projected them onto you. I don't know exactly where you stand.

I'm really sorry if what or how I spoke was upsetting to you, Willow.

My reason was that the three videos I saw were each so different that I felt there were three different phenomena going on - I can see it would have been more sensitive and clearer if I had asked you about the people involved in them first, rather than putting my 2cents in first. It would have been a clearer frame, as I have an implicit assumption that everyone can I'm relentlessly interested - (if I went to a gallery exhibit of yours you would probably fill my gob with cement to stop the incessant questions) - it isnt a 'questioning' ie doubting another's experience or personal process.

Where I stand around Icke is probably best described by Wombat's post up thread - it really resonated with several people.

[American Dream]

Where I stand around Icke is probably best described by Wombat's post up thread - it really resonated with several people.

Including the part about David Icke being a "poison pill"?

[Searcher08]

Where I stand around Icke is probably best described by Wombat's post up thread - it really resonated with several people.

Including the part about David Icke being a "poison pill"?

You should read Wombats piece again. His usage of that expression is totally different than yours and it is his usage I agree with.

We disagree fundamentally with your approach of 'problematic ideas, individuals' etc etc. Perhaps it is just the old 'free-speech' line is different for each of us...

For example, IMHO the Nizkor Project site rocks. Why? because it is fact based, clear, answers boatloads of questions and encourages it. Why does the far right loathe it? because that is what it does - I went deep into the site a few years ago and found lots of invitations to debate far right groups which went unanswered - it was actually a superb uncovering of the 'far right we are only asking questions' approach.

I was hoping you would participate more in this thread. There seem to be as many myths around Icke are there are around the Rothschilds. And that is saying something. It is so much easier to hold onto familiar tropes that take them apart and see whats there, perhaps?

Maybe we could map the IckeLand ecosystem...

[slimmouse]

Where I stand around Icke is probably best described by Wombat's post up thread - it really resonated with several people.

Including the part about David Icke being a "poison pill"?

Thats a big fail by your meticulous standards AD. I guess it all depends on the subject huh ?

Heres the real quote;

Overall? There's not much wrong with Icke, really, but there's a great deal wrong with our culture. So when I talk about Icke being a "poison pill," please understand that I'm not talking about the man himself, I'm talking about the world we live in.


And ya know what, I dont think Icke would actually disagree with any of that.

Searcher, In all genuine honesty I know absolutely nothing to speak of about neither Wilder nor Brice Taylor. But I do strongly suspect that like every other area of Ickes investigations the traps had most probably been laid long before Icke came on the scene WRT covering the trail. Not that I dont accept that he has more likely than not been caught in a few of them himself.

My point is that at least Im now aware of the phenomenon of SRA, along with thousands of others who otherwise would simply be clueless, dismissing anyone suggesting that they were victims of such, some kind of nut job.

As if there arent enough of the mass consensus reality people out there who believe that already anyway.

[American Dream]

Where I stand around Icke is probably best described by Wombat's post up thread - it really resonated with several people.

Including the part about David Icke being a "poison pill"?

You should read Wombats piece again. His usage of that expression is totally different than yours and it is his usage I agree with.

We disagree fundamentally with your approach of 'problematic ideas, individuals' etc etc. Perhaps it is just the old 'free-speech' line is different for each of us...

For example, IMHO the Nizkor Project site rocks. Why? because it is fact based, clear, answers boatloads of questions and encourages it. Why does the far right loathe it? because that is what it does - I went deep into the site a few years ago and found lots of invitations to debate far right groups which went unanswered - it was actually a superb uncovering of the 'far right we are only asking questions' approach.

I was hoping you would participate more in this thread. There seem to be as many myths around Icke are there are around the Rothschilds. And that is saying something. It is so much easier to hold onto familiar tropes that take them apart and see whats there, perhaps?

Maybe we could map the IckeLand ecosystem...

Yeah- here's the larger quote from Wombaticus: Overall? There's not much wrong with Icke, really, but there's a great deal wrong with our culture. So when I talk about Icke being a "poison pill," please understand that I'm not talking about the man himself, I'm talking about the world we live in."
My position: Poison pill is poison pill. But yes- most of David Icke's work is derivative.

As to "myths around Icke"- eye of the beholder.

Here's a few contentions I hold around the problematic Mr. Icke:

David Icke is not the Messiah.

He has problems with anti-Semitic narratives.

He mixes true facts with lots of unfounded assertions.

His mind control narratives have big problems.


There's much, much more but these are a few of his problems...

[Saurian Tail]

Maybe we could map the IckeLand ecosystem...

Icke exhibits the characteristics of delusion. His foundational experiences are based around personal revelation. He believes he has been chosen to deliver his message. His presentation of information meets the basic criteria of a delusion:

1. certainty (held with absolute conviction)
2. incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
3. impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion

However, in my opinion, if you just stop there you risk missing to most interesting stuff. There is clearly a movement in the direction of these sorts of "delusions" that is much bigger than just David Icke. I suggest that understanding reptilians, pleiadians, indigo children, raising vibrational levels, etc ... are modern mythology. Mythology not in the sense of fake stories, but in the sense of true expressions of the personal and the collective unconscious. A great deal of what these people are talking about is mythologically true, even if they are highly implausible by more ordinary measures.

Would you rather someone believe his sensitivity was due to the fact that he is an indigo child here to bless humanity, or a damaged human in need of medication? I'm not saying that these are the only two choices and that there are not better alternatives than believing one is an indigo child ... I am simply pointing out the mythological role that these explanatory systems play. People are tapping into archetypical stories that revivify their lives. Revivified lives are not the typical output of modern civilized human society, that is for sure.

[Searcher08]

Where I stand around Icke is probably best described by Wombat's post up thread - it really resonated with several people.

Including the part about David Icke being a "poison pill"?

You should read Wombats piece again. His usage of that expression is totally different than yours and it is his usage I agree with.

We disagree fundamentally with your approach of 'problematic ideas, individuals' etc etc. Perhaps it is just the old 'free-speech' line is different for each of us...

For example, IMHO the Nizkor Project site rocks. Why? because it is fact based, clear, answers boatloads of questions and encourages it. Why does the far right loathe it? because that is what it does - I went deep into the site a few years ago and found lots of invitations to debate far right groups which went unanswered - it was actually a superb uncovering of the 'far right we are only asking questions' approach.

I was hoping you would participate more in this thread. There seem to be as many myths around Icke are there are around the Rothschilds. And that is saying something. It is so much easier to hold onto familiar tropes that take them apart and see whats there, perhaps?

Maybe we could map the IckeLand ecosystem...

Yeah- here's the larger quote from Wombaticus: Overall? There's not much wrong with Icke, really, but there's a great deal wrong with our culture. So when I talk about Icke being a "poison pill," please understand that I'm not talking about the man himself, I'm talking about the world we live in."
My position: Poison pill is poison pill. But yes- most of David Icke's work is derivative.

As to "myths around Icke"- eye of the beholder.

Here's a few contentions I hold around the problematic Mr. Icke:

David Icke is not the Messiah.

He has problems with anti-Semitic narratives.

He mixes true facts with lots of unfounded assertions.

His mind control narratives have big problems.


There's much, much more but these are a few of his problems...

AFAIK he doesn't consider himself anything other than a regular Joe, never mind being a Messiah.
He did use language about EVERYONE being a Son Of God - ie having the divine essence in them.

You say: He has problems with anti-Semitic narratives
I think he has some problems with narratives full stop.

For example, the story about WW3 linking to Albert Pike, the great Freemason. I thought that was an interesting story, but the research I did could not trace any link like that. It then turns out that there is not. So this is one of the things he says that is worth examining. However framing it as "anti-Semitic narratives" IMHO is missing the non-Semitic narratives, if that makes sense.

TBC

[seemslikeadream]

Maybe we could map the IckeLand ecosystem...

Icke exhibits the characteristics of delusion. His foundational experiences are based around personal revelation. He believes he has been chosen to deliver his message. His presentation of information meets the basic criteria of a delusion:

1. certainty (held with absolute conviction)
2. incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
3. impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion

However, in my opinion, if you just stop there you risk missing to most interesting stuff. There is clearly a movement in the direction of these sorts of "delusions" that is much bigger than just David Icke. I suggest that understanding reptilians, pleiadians, indigo children, raising vibrational levels, etc ... are modern mythology. Mythology not in the sense of fake stories, but in the sense of true expressions of the personal and the collective unconscious. A great deal of what these people are talking about is mythologically true, even if they are highly implausible by more ordinary measures.

Would you rather someone believe his sensitivity was due to the fact that he is an indigo child here to bless humanity, or a damaged human in need of medication? I'm not saying that these are the only two choices and that there are not better alternatives than believing one is an indigo child ... I am simply pointing out the mythological role that these explanatory systems play. People are tapping into archetypical stories that revivify their lives. Revivified lives are not the typical output of modern civilized human society, that is for sure.

I wish I could express my position as well as you have expressed yours Saurian, they are so similar

[seemslikeadream]

Well since AD was the first to mention David Icke here he should be very grateful to us for giving him the opportunity to tell us all how Icke is the most dangerous holocaust denying anti-semite man on the planet....

but AD in doing so elevates Icke to an extreme status above all other holocaust deniers, because he seems to not give a damn about (IGNORING) the most important ones, the ones who have done the real damage, the ones with real power in the real world. If, AD, you are so disturbed by holocaust deniers why haven't gone after them with such zeal. If you have AD, by all means show me, I must have missed it and if so I am sorry. Why is Icke your main focus? Why is HIS anti-semitism your soup du jour? Has he written books such as Winston Churchill wiping clean the history of 7 million dead Indians? Is he the equal to government of France who just the other day denied the Armenian Holocaust, 30 years of denial before Khmer Rouge leader Khieu Samphan is brought to trial? His French lawyer Jacques Verges, whose previous clients have included Nazi war criminal Klaus Barbie and Venezuelan hijacker Carlos the Jackal. Is David Icke even that old? Jean-Paul Harroy's Rwanda de la féodalité à la démocratie 1955-1962 - the killing of the Tutsis in the 1950s and 1960s was just an inevitable byproduct of revolution. I could go on and on..


Oh but none can compare to Icke denial! Really AD? Really David Icke? Putting him above the denial level of so many others that have so much more sway in the world? By doing so denies the real monumental validity of those I've mentioned Why would you do that? Why is it so much more important for you to rail on...there's is only one answer I can come up with. There is only one difference between my examples of denial and utter revisionist history and your obsession with Icke.

[Rory]

AFAIK he doesn't consider himself anything other than a regular Joe, never mind being a Messiah.
He did use language about EVERYONE being a Son Of God - ie having the divine essence in them.

You say: He has problems with anti-Semitic narratives
I think he has some problems with narratives full stop.

For example, the story about WW3 linking to Albert Pike, the great Freemason. I thought that was an interesting story, but the research I did could not trace any link like that. It then turns out that there is not. So this is one of the things he says that is worth examining. However framing it as "anti-Semitic narratives" IMHO is missing the non-Semitic narratives, if that makes sense.

TBC

I don't think he is anyway deliberate in terms of his intentions. He doesn't set out to smear and nullify the testimony of mc whistleblowers. He didn't deliberately try and sabotage his public image and destroy his self confidence and become a recluse (after Wogan interview). He doesn't intend to become associated with the far right facets of the conspirasphere. Etc..

But he does it every time. Past a certain point, you have to ask: is he such a fool as to unwittingly destroy so much and bring onto himself the taint of mentally ill or anti semite. Because the effect is the same whether calculated or not. And the best of intentions won't change things after the fact.

Here's Wogan for anyone who missed it. Instructive in how not to dress for tv and for things not to say on mainstream tv.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke ... _interview

Terry Wogan interview
Icke is greeted by Terry Wogan on April 29, 1991.[23]

The headlines attracted an invitation from the BBC's prime-time Terry Wogan show on April 29, 1991. He implied during the interview, amid laughter from the studio audience, that he was "the son of God," and said Britain would be devastated by tidal waves and earthquakes.[24] He later said he had used the term "the son of God" to mean an aspect of the infinite consciousness.[25] He also talked about politics, energy and the environment: "[W]hen a child dies in this world of preventable disease every two seconds, when the economic system of this world must destroy the earth simply for that system to survive; when you see all the wars, and when you see all the pain, and when you see all the suffering, is it a force of love and wisdom and tolerance that is in control of this planet?"[26]

The interview proved devastating for him. The BBC was criticized for allowing it to go ahead, Des Christy in The Guardian calling it a "media crucifixion."[27] Wogan interviewed Icke again in 2006, acknowledging that his comments during the interview had been a bit sharp.[24] Icke disappeared from public life for a time, unable to walk down the street without people mocking him. His children were followed to school by journalists and ridiculed by schoolmates, and his wife would open the back door to get the washing in only to find a camera crew filming her.[28] Icke told Jon Ronson in 2001:

One of my very greatest fears as a child was being ridiculed in public. And there it was coming true. As a television presenter, I'd been respected. People come up to you in the street and shake your hand and talk to you in a respectful way. And suddenly, overnight, this was transformed into "Icke's a nutter." I couldn't walk down any street in Britain without being laughed at. It was a nightmare. My children were devastated because their dad was a figure of ridicule.[23]

His wife and kids were pilloried and (probably bullied to some extent, knowing kids) because of their dad's flight of fancy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufGVwaVp ... re=related

Wogan's an arl bastard but it was shooting fish in a barrel.

I think one of the ways we might be able to tell the second coming of christ, is that he would have the wit to avoid mediocre irishman presented talkshows as the medium to announce his arrival upon the planet.

{edit to remove vulgarity}

[seemslikeadream]

Wogan's an arl cunt but it was shooting fish in a barrel.

come on Wommie that one surely rates the label misogynist , doesn't it? Good for the gander....good for the goose? Or do males get a pass on language here