The Delphi Technique and #Occupy

[JackRiddler]

With that in mind, here’s an open secret: the most effective counterintelligence work is the kind you don’t do.

That was beautiful.

[Wombaticus Rex]

This is beautiful:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LvtUqxWzzw

[JackRiddler]

This is beautiful:

Yes.

[TerryBain]

Rex, Riddler - ignoring infiltration does not make it go away. "To be clear, no one associated with Occupy Wall Street advocates or calls for violence and condemns any criminal activities beyond General Assembly approved direct action civil disobedience techniques.

As such the current activities are being denounced as the work of Agent Provocateurs (For background see this, this, and this)"

Article Here: http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/0 ... sf-128051/

[justdrew]

well, the "blackbloc" buddies have been busy boosting the GDP and continuing their war on windows. I'm sure they really changed some people minds today. fucking heros. Funny how the cops manage to not arrest any/many of them.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Rex, Riddler - ignoring infiltration does not make it go away.

Certainly not -- and I haven't said that anywhere, either.

I would only point out that actively being concerned with infiltration and taking steps to prevent it also does not make it go away.

Ignoring it involves far less effort and gets identical results.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

.....
Ignoring it involves far less effort and gets identical results.

No.

Educating allies to 'The Game' played against them is critical to getting ahead of the reactive curve of defense that fascism uses to win.

All psychological warfare manuals declare that setting the agenda is key to winning. Keep the opposition playing defense and operating within your framing, They Say.

That has to change.

[JackRiddler]

Rex, Riddler - ignoring infiltration does not make it go away.

No one said this. The means by which many people seem to imagine they are confronting it -- e.g., frequent wild broad arbitrary accusations, usually motivated by political-personal agenda -- are among the means by which the goals of disruption are accomplished. I'd like to hear an acknowledgement of the extent to which modernday COINTELPRO is likely to be making use of the technique of splitting and dismaying activists and organizers by snitchjacketing. Rex is aiming for strategies that minimize the impact such infiltration can have.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Hugh, your entire career on this board is a beautiful illustration of the precise futility I'm talking about.

Also, "educating allies" would involve having the right information in the first place. That's not a Hugh diss, that's about the fact the title (and origin) of this thread is based on misinformation. There is very little actual information about #Occupy infiltration plots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_unce ... _and_doubt <== may your OODA loop be free of these demons

[TerryBain]

Rex - once again we'll just have to agree to not agree. You state that there is , "...very little actual information about #Occupy infiltration plots." But once we renamed Delphi to Wombat you did notice there were some infiltration problems. Ignoring evidence of infiltration really isn't going to work, even though you "...haven't said that anywhere, either."

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Hugh, your entire career on this board is a beautiful illustration of the precise futility I'm talking about.

Then you missed the success story of the username who was inspired by my posts to wage a counter-recruiting campaign because I showed how movies are used to target potential recruits and cover up military atrocities. This one success alone balances all the troll bandwith spent trying to bury my explications.

Also, "educating allies" would involve having the right information in the first place. That's not a Hugh diss, that's about the fact the title (and origin) of this thread is based on misinformation. There is very little actual information about #Occupy infiltration plots.

Tactics are timeless.
DemocracyNow has been regularly including in their Occupy reporting the almost certainty of agents provocateur trying to make The Movement look bad and former NYTimes war correspondent Chris Hedges has been on the air specifically warning of the this timeless tactic.

This helps to keep more reasonable people from being alienated by these tactics.
It ain't 1966 anymore.

Spook shenanigans are becoming more common knowledge, a damn good thing if decades late....eventually psyops will also be known...

[TerryBain]

Riddler - really...."No one said this." I said it. The quote block clearly says - I said it. My name is not nobody, but feel free to ignore that, too. I defend your right to ignore anything. As a liberal, I feel everyone has a right to pursuit of happiness. Be happy.

[Wombaticus Rex]

You state that there is , "...very little actual information about #Occupy infiltration plots."

But once we renamed Delphi to Wombat you did notice there were some infiltration problems.

Anyone can view this thread for themselves. I will only say that I disagree with your representation of events. I have provided a great many links to essays and articles outlining infiltration allegations -- if I missed evidence, please let me know. I missed it.

Ignoring evidence of infiltration really isn't going to work, even though you "...haven't said that anywhere, either."

What have I ignored? Again -- if I have missed evidence, please let me know.

What do you mean by "isn't going to work" -- work in terms of what?

How do you distinguish "evidence of infiltration" from "people within the movement I disagree with" ?

[TerryBain]

Rex - point by point:

"Anyone can view this thread for themselves."
Concur

"I will only say that I disagree with your representation of events."
Concur

"I have provided a great many links to essays and articles outlining infiltration allegations -- if I missed evidence, please let me know. I missed it."
Since you have highlighted the words "allegations" and "evidence" I must assume you are confused and missing the definition of the word evidence.

According to Merriam-Webster,
"Definition of EVIDENCE
1
a : an outward sign : indication...."
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evidence. While Webster doesn't specifically say the word "allegation", a reasonable person might conclude that an indication is close enough. I am guessing you, however, will not agree.

"What have I ignored? Again -- if I have missed evidence, please let me know." Evidently, so to speak, you are ignoring what the word evidence means, for a start.

Finally, you wrote "How do you distinguish "evidence of infiltration" from "people within the movement I disagree with"

I would respond that we probably also will have to agree to not agree about how you responded to Hugh, "Hugh, your entire career on this board is a beautiful illustration of the precise futility I'm talking about."

You probably won't agree, but, that response seems to be somewhat lacking in evidence, not to mention being patronizing and downright rude. Discussion tactics like that will probably result in an epiphany, for you, about what the term "isn't going to work" means. Your failure to agree is not evidence that what Hugh said is in error. Would it have killed you to remain polite with someone you are not agreeing with?

[JackRiddler]

Terry, you're deflecting.

Please list what you take to be evidence of infiltration in Occupy.

To expect that there is infiltration of any and all social movements for change, on logical grounds, because we all know it works that way from a long history and from the set up of the system, is reasonable. No one has evidenced blindness to that here. However, it's not what you've been implying. What's the evidence you see now? What's the right thing to do about it? WR has not said, "nothing." The way I take his words, he means a movement should aim to organize in a way that makes counter-intelligence work largely superfluous. Furthermore, counter-intelligence drives can be and have been counter-productive, ending not in effective purging of infiltration but in disruption through paranoia that plays into the hands of infiltration and other efforts to disrupt and divide. So please, your evidence of infiltration and your strategy for doing something about it. Thanks.