Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

[compared2what?]

No, I'm not saying that you are posting that spirituality and social action are irreconcilably opposed. I thought i was pretty specific in my questions to you re Yoga practitioners/Occupy protesters and marchers/readers of Tolle or Icke. I was asking, specifically, if you think that people who read Tolle or do yoga might ALSO be capable of social action that you would approve of.

You don't need me to tell you this: of course they are.

Indeed. If nobody goes out of his or her way to stipulate otherwise, I think it goes without saying that there's no reason on earth to think of social/political action and reading Tolle/doing yoga as mutually exclusive.

The problem is that as the OP notes...

The primary factor in creation is consciousness. No matter how active we are, how much effort we make, our state of consciousness creates our world, and if there is no change on the inner level, no amount of action will make any difference. We would only re-create modified versions of the same world again and again, a world that is an external reflection of the ego.

...Tolle goes out of his way to stipulate otherwise.
______________________


As far as I can see, most of what he says would be acceptable at worst and wise at best if he weren't also categorically saying (explicitly) that action was pointless without.inner change but (implicitly) not the reverse.

I don't want to be unfair to him. But unless he goes equally far out of his way to stipulate appropriate qualifications, I'd say that's obviously problematic. Because once you start laying down that law as a categorical rather than a contingent truth in unqualified terms, I'm not sure what the difference is between this...

The primary cause of unhappiness is never the situation but your thoughts about it

...and this:



And I get enough of that from age-old sources already, speaking strictly for myself.

ON EDIT: Fixed a typo, bolded a sentence.

[Canadian_watcher]

Where you see censorship, I might see diverging views. And there is a size function which provides 200 options (more than half of them visible).

thanks for the font answer.

I'm not suggesting that you are engaged in any censorship or even calling for it but from my perspective some of these diverging views are put forth in such a way that they can engender a sort of psychological self-censorship. I feel that way when I read these last few threads you've started.

[hava007]

Good critique, i am a reader of Tolle, and it worked as therapy for me at times, (same as reading the psalms). He is actually not saying "what" to do, but more along the "how to feel", especially when in stressful situations.
But the critique, which applies to many OTHER new age writings ('the secret" was notably bad hype ), is valid. Boils down to the old belief that those who got screwed up deserve it, and those who are lucky and affluent merit their fortunate life. this line is also present in some christian denominations and is a natural human tendency. it is also present in various pseudo spiritual justifications of discriminatory practices, and slavery in general, and class politics. The dominant will always try to convince the servants or lower casts that "its their place", and teach them "acceptance" (by yoga or Tolle reading, or psalms). But, sometimes that's better than anger and futile revolt.
God answered Moses, who asked "why do I see sometimes righteous people suffer and evil ones flourish ?". God said :" shut up, this is what came up in the higher realms of divine plan". Namely, there is no answer but its within divine plans. Sounds a bit like Tolle answer to me ...

[American Dream]

I'm not suggesting that you are engaged in any censorship or even calling for it but from my perspective some of these diverging views are put forth in such a way that they can engender a sort of psychological self-censorship. I feel that way when I read these last few threads you've started.

Jerky said a similar thing about freedom of speech for jewish world conspiracy ideas. I haven't seen you arguing for any sort of race theory but I do think there needs to be a place for calling bullshit on bullshit. And for not letting the very worst sorts of conspiratology flood the board.

Probably you agree to a point but are way more tolerant of stuff that I would call sketchy. That's not news around here and if you wish there was less restraint shown by individual posters, well, that's your opinion and I don't agree.

Here's another quote from the piece:

As was the case with Zen Buddhism in Japan during and before WWII, the cultivation of stillness, compassion and love can co-exist with the worst fascism and imperialism. The entire institution of Zen Buddhism – the masters, monks and professors supported the cruel and colonizing efforts of the state and emperor. They defended the “wars of compassion,” gorged themselves in killing and advocated merging the small self with the larger self of the state. This was all done within the monastical, academic and ethical systems of Zen Buddhism. Furthermore, most white people in the history of U.S. have believed themselves to be loving, caring, compassionate people. Many have even engaged in spiritual practices for decades now, yet have been complicit in all sorts of racist, bigoted and Imperialistic actions in America. White people aren’t more aware of their own racism or racist past because they’ve cultivated presence or live in the Now.

http://www.decolonizingyoga.com/why-eck ... t-save-us/

[slimmouse]

[quote="[
Here's another quote from the piece:

As was the case with Zen Buddhism in Japan during and before WWII, the cultivation of stillness, compassion and love can co-exist with the worst fascism and imperialism. The entire institution of Zen Buddhism – the masters, monks and professors supported the cruel and colonizing efforts of the state and emperor. They defended the “wars of compassion,” gorged themselves in killing and advocated merging the small self with the larger self of the state. This was all done within the monastical, academic and ethical systems of Zen Buddhism. Furthermore, most white people in the history of U.S. have believed themselves to be loving, caring, compassionate people. Many have even engaged in spiritual practices for decades now, yet have been complicit in all sorts of racist, bigoted and Imperialistic actions in America. White people aren’t more aware of their own racism or racist past because they’ve cultivated presence or live in the Now.

http://www.decolonizingyoga.com/why-eck ... t-save-us/[/quote]

Ive never actually said this previously in this thread, because I thought the distinction was a given. that in todays modern information age, ignorance is now miuch more of an option than it has ever previously been,

This means that any of number of formerly small individual signals that anyone interested cares to register, which indicate that the world is fucked up in a pretty big way are today, more than ever before being unified and exponentially amplified in the collective mind.

Meanwhile Individual thinking is also being refined at the same time, based upon what we now know.. I have great faith in the human spirit to see how big this moment could be. And we both know that people who dont have our best interests at heart are aware of it to, as indicated by the fact that they have for a long time been spending billions of our money on countering it.

So does this mean that people are now more or less likely to spot the con when they see it? Im saying Yes it does. And im arguing that as a result paraculture is a far more potent force for change than it has ever previously been.

Sounder. Ive read a couple of articles from the link you posted, and whilst offering a very sobering perspective on my overall optimism about our future, the guy makes some pretty good points. I'll certainly be looking at more when time allows.

[American Dream]

Meanwhile Individual thinking is also being refined at the same time, based upon what we now know.. I have great faith in the human spirit to see how big this moment could be. And we both know that people who dont have our best interests at heart are aware of it to, as indicated by the fact that they have for a long time been spending billions of our money on countering it.

So does this mean that people are now more or less likely to spot the con when they see it? Im saying Yes it does. And im arguing that as a result paraculture is a far more potent force for change than it has ever previously been.

OK- "paraculture" but will it be David Icke or Peter Dale Scott?

If you tell me" both", I will tell you quite honestly that leaders like Icke who traffic in so much sketchy information can not help but to poison the well. So the Devil is in the details, once again...

[slimmouse]

OK- "paraculture" but will it be David Icke or Peter Dale Scott?

If you tell me" both", I will tell you quite honestly that leaders like Icke who traffic in so much sketchy information can not help but to poison the well. So the Devil is in the details, once again..

Indeed in an ideal world it would be Peter Dale Scott, given that he had of course studied not only his own particular field, but the entire gamut of our collective human abomination. But the trouble is of course that he hasnt. Quo Vadis?

I would also take issue with your premise that Icke is some kind of leader. I think youre gonna have to sit and watch him run, if any leadership requests come his way.

Finally To give this discussion a more personal slant , I have to ask this of you.

Having posted any number of critiques on here from people that are far worse in intention than their subject ,David Icke will ever be, with both affiliations and track records to back up my assertion, What am I then to make of you ?

If I was at a meeting , and our paths crossed, what should I tell people about you, knowing the sources that you have quoted, and apparently hold great store in ? Where is the devil, to your own mind in this, and where is he in mine?

We all have plenty to be wary of.

[American Dream]

Finally To give this discussion a more personal slant , I have to ask this of you.

Having posted any number of critiques on here from people that are far worse in intention than their subject ,David Icke will ever be, with both affiliations and track records to back up my assertion, What am I then to make of you ?

If I was at a meeting , and our paths crossed, what should I tell people about you, knowing the sources that you have quoted, and apparently hold great store in ? Where is the devil, to your own mind in this, and where is he in mine?

We all have plenty to be wary of.

Here we get at the pretzel logic of the true believer in David Icke and/or other such "intellectual" leaders. If anyone is critical of the great leader, we can surely link them to other skeptics we don't like and thus totally avoid the substance of their critique. It is through these sorts of ad hominems that you and others have skirted the issue again and again...and again...

I don't though have the impression that you are a "bad" person, slim. You strike me as a sincere person who does pretty much subscribe to the world view which David Icke promotes.

And there's the rub...

[Canadian_watcher]

The goal seems to be to make everyone think the way you do, AD.
isn't that a little bit cult leaderish?

[American Dream]

The goal seems to be to make everyone think the way you do, AD.
isn't that a little bit cult leaderish?

More pretzel logic- and once again avoiding the substance of the concerns.

You have a long track record of that, CW- including here on this thread...

[Searcher08]

Swimmers who imagined that they had hands the size of paddles were able to swim faster.... it doesnt mean they believed there hands were paddles... call it a Proto-Truth - a useful thing to have in one's mind during swimming. Just because something is not true, does not mean it cant be extremely useful.

Creating a vision (a detailed three-dimensional representation) of an end result generally helps in the attaining of it, particularly if there appears to be little evidence of it coming about.
A vision is inherently NOT true - it is NOT a reality
A vision is really a proto-truth - it allows you to know that you have actually achieved something

The content of what is held in the mind acts as a selection mechanism of further perceptions - one notices what one is prepared / patterned to notice to notice - Six Blind Men and an Elephant.

Critical thinking is not design or creative thinking and is absoutely useless for coming up with radically new ideas - because it is not about that. It is concerned with analysis, which is about digging the same hole deeper, not creativity, which is about digging a different hole.

One of my issues with the 'Left' is that there is traditionally a lot of bunk about having to feel angry and upset when things are a certain way in the outside world. To me, 95% of the time when I have come across a really angry person, I come across someone who is wasting their energy.

I have seen no evidence that the Left identifies this as an issue.

I see it as the flip side of the bullshit coin of 'my nice pink thoughts are all I need to change the world' - it's the tired fundi-leftist trope of "Comrades, we need to be constantly ANGRY at issue X, Y, Z!" This is why so many revolutions run out of steam - because there is an emotional 'tiring factor' and when that eventually kicks in, the systemic tendancy is to revert to the patterns that have already been established...
"Meet the new boss -same as the old boss" because there has been no design of new systems, of new organisations - revolution is based on reacting AGAINST, but then when that has gone - then what? Nothing but a resource fight with the mostly the same actors who were there before. It's like bulldozing a theatre saying "We shall liberate the acting profession!", rebuilding the theatre exactly the same , the same actors come back and the same plays are performed...

It is obvious that if one embarks on a mission to change something and one's head is stuffed full of raging emotions, it is likely to decrease the chances of success in the longer term - is probably another reason why psychopaths rule the world - they do not need to concern themselves with raging emotions and people are a lot easier to control and manipulate when they are full of rage than when they are internally clear headed and able to respond with full commitment in the moment. Emotion can help with energy - turning a 50 watt bulb to a 100 watt one - but a focused 50 watt bulb - a 50 watt laser, is capable of drilling through steel - try doing that with a room full of lightbulbs...
Alternatively,
"Nothing worthwhile was ever accomplished except by a mono-maniac on a mission"


Imagine New Age and Tollian thinking when faced with Bildeberg - an extremely powerful
organsisation which has access to almost unlimited money and corrupt influence -

Oprah saying to Henry Kissinger -
"Hey Henry, Have you read Eckhart's book - Eckhart meet Henry"
Eckhart giggles "All is One! I am You! There is no Henry!"
Henry says "So it's no-Henry doing no-business with no-Eckhart?"
Eckhart giggled
Henry said "Let's talk - have you eaten? No? Waiter... We are All One, Eckhart... Have you considered getting your message out in... Africa? The people there are longing to join the global community... they dont yet know about being One... I know a General in Gabon... "
...

Collectivist Critical Thinkers: Village Social Action Stakeholders Steering Group
The village water pump has stopped working...
"Are we a quorum to establish a critical thinking discussion group on this matter?"
"No, we need to wait till Fred finishes his lunch - Procedure 3.4.2(1) says
"NO WORKER SHALL BE CALLED TO A COMMITTEE WITHOUT FIRST FINISHING THEIR LUNCH"...
...Two hours later
"First we must consider this action as a possible SABOTAGE against our workers collective. Are we unananimous in dealing with this threat?"
"Well, I disagree with the word SABOTAGE, it may not be accurate in this situation - I think we should form a discussion group on whether that word accurately reflects what may have happened."
"I think remark that is a deeply troubling course of action and that we need to consider the reasons why Comrade X is NOT accepting the word SABOTAGE"
two hours later...
"I think you are verging on a logical fallacy error Comrade X!"
"That is an ad-hominem Comrade Y!"
... 4 hours later
"We shall now discuss the rationing procedures - do we apply equal rations to each person or do we show preferences for oppressed groups?"
"Well, I think kids should be given more"
"No they shouldnt"
"Yes they should"
"Provide evidence why"
"Provide evidence why not"
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
... 4 hours later
"Anyone else getting really thirsty?"
"Yeah.. anyone know how to fix a water pump?..."
"Err..nope"
"Whose responsibility was this?"
"It was a system fault. Lessons need to be learned and procedures will need to be changed"
"Anyone else getting really thirsty?"
"Let's raid the next village - they have water - from each according to their... resources to each according to their needs. And I desperately need something to drink."
"Carried."
...

[American Dream]

Searcher, I think your critique of a certain kind of leftist is spot on but it surely does not describe all those on the left. Not by a long shot.

Many can and do wed the spiritual to the political everyday. Without needing any of the "New Age" baggage of Oprah-certified stars like Tolle, we are making do-it-yourself art, raising babies, distributing free food to all who need, playing music in the park, building community gardens- and meditating in them!, building up squats, standiing in solidarity with the most poor and oppressed, etc. etc.

And all without nary a mention of Tolle or Icke!

[brainpanhandler]

One of my issues with the 'Left' is that there is traditionally a lot of bunk about having to feel angry and upset when things are a certain way in the outside world. To me, 95% of the time when I have come across a really angry person, I come across someone who is wasting their energy.

I have seen no evidence that the Left identifies this as an issue.

What are you calling "the Left"?

Collectivist Critical Thinkers: Village Social Action Stakeholders Steering Group[/b]
The village water pump is has stopped working...
"Are we a quorum to establish a critical thinking discussion group on this matter?"
"No, we need to wait till Fred finishes his lunch - Procedure 3.4.2(1) says
"NO WORKER SHALL BE CALLED TO A COMMITTEE WITHOUT FIRST FINISHING THEIR LUNCH"...
...Two hours later
"First we must consider this action as a possible SABOTAGE against our workers collective. Are we unananimous in dealing with this threat?"
"Well, I disagree with the word SABOTAGE, it may not be accurate in this situation - I think we should form a discussion group on whether that word accurately reflects what may have happened."
"I think remark that is a deeply troubling course of action and that we need to consider the reasons why Comrade X is NOT accepting the word SABOTAGE"
two hours later...
"I think you are verging on a logical fallacy error Comrade X!"
"That is an ad-hominem Comrade Y!"
... 4 hours later
"We shall now discuss the rationing procedures - do we apply equal rations to each person or do we show preferences for oppressed groups?"
"Well, I think kids should be given more"
"No they shouldnt"
"Yes they should"
"Provide evidence why"
"Provide evidence why not"
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
... 4 hours later
"Anyone else getting really thirsty?"
"Yeah.. anyone know how to fix a water pump?..."
"Err..nope"
"Whose responsibility was this?"
"It was a system fault. Lessons need to be learned and procedures will need to be changed"
"Anyone else getting really thirsty?"
"Let's raid the next village - they have water - from each according to their... resources to each according to their needs. And I desperately need something to drink."
"Carried."
...

What is that supposed to be illustrative of?

[American Dream]

I have to revise my previous comments on more careful reading and agree with bph. The above comments extracted from Searcher are reflective of no sort of leftist I have ever seen or heard of in my life.

Rather, they are the grossest sort of strawman slur against logic and critical thinking that I have heard in quite a long while.

Where were the previous worst slurs against logic and critical thinking coming from?

Don't ask...

[Canadian_watcher]

The goal seems to be to make everyone think the way you do, AD.
isn't that a little bit cult leaderish?

More pretzel logic- and once again avoiding the substance of the concerns.

You have a long track record of that, CW- including here on this thread...

ha ha ha!

the substance ? I thought we addressed that directly. The substance is that you think these thinkers are beneath contempt. What do you really want me or anyone to say to that besides simply agree with you? We've all expressed that people are capable of taking the good and leaving the bad from ALL sources, granted, some are more capable of it than others. I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but you're all about the bathwater. We see it differently that's all, and I believe you're guilty of ad hominem there ^^ appeal to emotion rather that the substance. none of us are perfect, AD, including you.