National Mall Immolation 2013

[Iamwhomiam]

Are you open to suggestions?

Oh my God. Wow. On a forum that solicits MC victims to share, this statement goes unchecked. Not a word from anyone about its inappropriateness. I have stated that I don't judge someone's decision to commit suicide, or their freedom of expression to perform their suicide in public as a form of protest, and someone takes it as an opportunity to goad me into suicide as a form of revenge.....a pseudo murder, if you will. Stunning, but not surprising. As a group, I think it's time you start being careful about what you're doing from a legal standpoint. Inviting potentially fragile people online and then pummeling them and goading them into suicide comes dangerously close to gaslighting. The more mature in the audience who have some form of clout in this group, have a duty to check this destructive behavior.

Fragile, Carol, is not a word that comes immediately to mind in describing you. Too bad you don't recognize my quip for what it was, noir, of course.

Really sucks to be tied to a quipping post.

Are you attempting to stifle my right to free expression?

[Iamwhomiam]

Worth repeating.

No messages or signs stating a reason for the shocking act were visible on the mall, according to authorities and witnesses. And in a statement released last night, Constantino's family says that a clear motive may never emerge.

In a statement released through an attorney, the family said Constantino's death "was not a political act or statement, but the result of a long battle with mental illness." That's according to The Washington Post. The AP received the same statement, in which family members called Constantino a "loving father and husband."

The family also said that they "would like to acknowledge the heroism of the paramedics and bystanders who attempted to save his life."

[Iamwhomiam]

Iamwhomiam, isn't that why an old old form of mental health treatment involved throwing someone off a cliff into the ocean. Not high enough to be certainly fatal. Most people could take the dive and swim in, yet it wasn't 100% sure. Most made it back to land and 'succesful treatment cases' had the experience you describe above. Not actually 100% sure this existed. but I swear I read about it somewhere. Anyone else ever heard of the sink or swim cure?

---

"Sink or Swim" to my knowledge was one of the witch trials. Bound and laden with weights of some sort, they were tossed into water deeper than their height. Can't remember which proved innocence, though. I think those that rose were guilty; the power of the Devil raised them; the innocent were welcomed into heaven. Could have been the reverse, with God saving the floaters and condemning the sinkers. The logic works well for either situation.

[Nordic]

Consul, I absolutely see what you're saying.

I have always felt at some level that it's really none if my business if someone really wants to off themselves. I have a big libertarian streak in me that way; I've always felt that people should be as free as they want regarding their own self destruction, as long as it doesn't involve any unwilling others. So if you want to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, smoke cigs, drink too much, rock climb witjout any safety gear, fine.

But when the time came, and I was in a position to prevent the ultimate self destruction, I had to act. And I think everyone should. If they can. Because like spmeone said above the person, if they live, might greatly regret it. Also, as this self immolation shows, there are family and friends, and if you'te there instead of them, well, you fill in for them.

It's one of those places where I believe there is a rock solid moral imperative to intervene.

Also, having been dangerously close to that point in my own life, I feel I owe it to others who might be there who actually, really do want to find a better way, somehow.

[The Consul]

We all want to save someone; or at leat think that we would try or at least have to courage to act.
It's like a Tom Waits song, what was it....Franks Wild Years. You just don't know what is going on inside a person and what the swirl of karma around them might be.

I knew this guy who was up on the roof of the hospital after he had been arrest by the police and brough to the hospital because he was naked, jumping in front of traffic. Staff/vistors got up their and stopped him from jumping off the roof. After he was released he got hold of his uncles .25 cal revolver and shot himself in the head. He ended up back in the hospital where he made a miraculous recovery because of the angle of the shot and a faulty barrel. He barely knows who he is and can't remember much of his life before he pulled the trigger. He is prone to massive seizures and severe alcoholism. He is a tragic pain to his family. The last time I saw him he was trying to walk into a beer cooler. I asked him Billy, what are you doing and he said "going home."

Another friend of mine once single hadedly saved a co-ed from jumping off the Van Buren St. Bridge. He was on his ten speed and saw this person getting up on the railing. Before she could fall he got hold of her thighs and managed to get passing motorists help him subdue her till the police arrived. After being released from the hospital she went to the art department and ran a band saw blade up in between all of her knuckles to her wrists. She was studying sculpture.

So I dont know. You do what you have to do without thinking and then if you think maybe you don't do anything. Like when Samuel Becket was stabbed. For no reason by a complete stranger. He got out of the hospital and the gendarmes took him to the jail house and brought him to the guy many others had identified as his assailant. So, Mssr. Beckett...is this the man who stabbed you? After a pause, after thinking....and looking deep at the guy he responded "I really couldn't say."

[Iamwhomiam]

You just don't know what is going on inside a person and what the swirl of karma around them might be.

So true. And I can't disagree that under some circumstances there would be tragic consequences regardless of whether one decided to act to preserve life or idly witness it flame out.

Regarding the quote, If we are present, our karma swirls are one. The outcome for each would according to their acts or inaction would be 'individual,' in a manner of speaking.

Put simpler, it is our reaction to the nightmare, the event we're participating in that has the greatest karmic impact, each having their own, the self-immolator, the actor and the witness, according to their individual reactions.