Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

[8bitagent]

It does seem like there is some support here for Alex Jones, the Militias, the Patriot movement, and other such things- as well as occasional fulmination against that vaguely defined monster, the "NWO"- so folks such as the shooters could easily want to join in with us here. Nonviolence is one principle we can express to distance ourselves from them, but there are other important principles too.

If by NWO you mean a loosely interlocking confederation of environmental destroying corporations, jihad financing oil states, Muslim slaughtering Western nations, immoral private military contractors, black market arms/drug trade dovetailing with agencies, child trafficking elites, immoral alphabet soup agencies and overall governments (be they capitalistic,communist or plain tyranical) who do bad things...than yes, that "NWO globalist" cabal is definitely the enemy.

But that's now what the conspiratoids do. They use vague-isms and can-never-be-wrong tropes like THEY, the NWO, etc to not get into real world issues.

[8bitagent]

It is so easy to get mixed up these days. When Bush was President the mainstream left was anti war, anti nsa/wiretapping etc etc, now Obama is President and it is the right who is preaching against the war and the nsa. I know it is all a psiwar and not everyone on the left ascribes to this bullshit but I do see a lot on the mainstream left like at DU and Kos supporting the war and making apologies for the NSA, and MANY on the left HATE Greenwald and Snowden (WTF IS THAT ALL ABOUT?!) something THEY WOULD NEVER WOULD HAVE DONE when Bush was President. So to me, it is just all so fucking confusing anymore, I am not as young as I used to be and I find I cant keep up with it like I once could and I try to be real careful who I align with and show support for because you just dont fucking know what is up and what is down anymore.


But for sure we do have some Alex Jones fans here, I have never seen them post anything too horrible but it is becoming increasingly difficult to give any Alex Jones fan a pass anymore, the guy is completely unhinged to the point any reasonable person should be distancing themselves from him immediately.

I would agree, to an extent. But I see a lot on the left wary of Obama. BOTH Right and Left were unanimously against the Syrian invasion possibility. And liberal worship Comedy Central shows like Colbert and Daily Show routinely take pot shots at the drone thing or Obama and the NSA. And I still see a mostly pro war slant from the right. Just look at the "Bergahl is a traitor" meme.

I agree tho Hunter, that overall it is TEAM sports. I mean could you imagine if Bush assassinated a Colorado teenager like Obama did? Holy shit the left would have made a firestorm. Obama I hate to say, as much as he did not do near the killing Bush did, HAS done things(prism/spying/nsa, drones, etc) Bush and the neocons couldn't have gotten away with.

Liberals who hate Snowden, Manning, Greenwald etc are fake progressives.

[American Dream]

It does seem like there is some support here for Alex Jones, the Militias, the Patriot movement, and other such things- as well as occasional fulmination against that vaguely defined monster, the "NWO"- so folks such as the shooters could easily want to join in with us here. Nonviolence is one principle we can express to distance ourselves from them, but there are other important principles too.

If by NWO you mean a loosely interlocking confederation of environmental destroying corporations, jihad financing oil states, Muslim slaughtering Western nations, immoral private military contractors, black market arms/drug trade dovetailing with agencies, child trafficking elites, immoral alphabet soup agencies and overall governments (be they capitalistic,communist or plain tyranical) who do bad things...than yes, that "NWO globalist" cabal is definitely the enemy.

But that's now what the conspiratoids do. They use vague-isms and can-never-be-wrong tropes like THEY, the NWO, etc to not get into real world issues.

I would call what you are talking about, "the Deep State", which has a clear meaning, per Peter Dale Scott.

[Hunter]

It does seem like there is some support here for Alex Jones, the Militias, the Patriot movement, and other such things- as well as occasional fulmination against that vaguely defined monster, the "NWO"- so folks such as the shooters could easily want to join in with us here. Nonviolence is one principle we can express to distance ourselves from them, but there are other important principles too.

If by NWO you mean a loosely interlocking confederation of environmental destroying corporations, jihad financing oil states, Muslim slaughtering Western nations, immoral private military contractors, black market arms/drug trade dovetailing with agencies, child trafficking elites, immoral alphabet soup agencies and overall governments (be they capitalistic,communist or plain tyranical) who do bad things...than yes, that "NWO globalist" cabal is definitely the enemy.

But that's now what the conspiratoids do. They use vague-isms and can-never-be-wrong tropes like THEY, the NWO, etc to not get into real world issues.

I would call what you are talking about, "the Deep State", which has a clear meaning, per Peter Dale Scott.

Well the deep state is the vehicle, wouldnt the NWO be the final destination. By NWO I mean a world government, one currency etc. Now one could make a case that all nations unifying, getting rid of borders etc would end wars etc and could be a good thing. I dont really know how I feel about any of it, I tend to not trust the elites to do anything that is good for us so generally speaking I would guess it is probably not gonna turn out well for us IF that is the agenda. In any case I dont ever see that happening, at least not in any of our lifetimes, the deep state will continue its shenanigans, however, whatever their final desire may be.

[American Dream]

Well the deep state is the vehicle, wouldnt the NWO be the final destination. By NWO I mean a world government, one currency etc. Now one could make a case that all nations unifying, getting rid of borders etc would end wars etc and could be a good thing. I dont really know how I feel about any of it, I tend to not trust the elites to do anything that is good for us so generally speaking I would guess it is probably not gonna turn out well for us IF that is the agenda. In any case I dont ever see that happening, at least not in any of our lifetimes, the deep state will continue its shenanigans, however, whatever their final desire may be.

If "the State" is understood as an external apparatus of control, a hierarchy, then I am against it. So some Federalist's wet dream of a unified world government would be anathema to me. I'm all for organization though, say along the lines suggested by anarcho-syndicalism.

[justdrew]

Drew would you expand on your psiwar and Larouche comment. I just want to understand, it sounds about right to me if I am understanding you properly. Are you saying these shooters ARE REAL but basically they are the result of various players pushing various conspiracy theories WITH THE HOPE AND INTENTION that it will TILT the crazies in to doing things like this and then the events are used to bring about certain ends.

Because when you say the shooting is the result of a psiwar I can only read it THAT WAY or youre saying the shootings are staged and I know youre not saying that.

I am genuinely interested in this idea so if you would elaborate how it works I would be thrilled to learn more.

yeah, that's about it. aquino/larouche tactics. tie as many people's heads up in as many knots as needed. signal-to-noise goes to hell. and a generation with no attention-span can't even begin to face the reality of not having a fucking clue what's going on.

the primary goal is in no way "taking away guns" or any of that bullshit, it's about utterly destroying civil society and any chance of the people to govern themselves. Thus making room for the new warlords to take over.

[8bitagent]

Yea, I just meant that I see a lot of liberals that I know self identify as being left wing liberals, who HATE Greenwald, Hate Snowden, support the war (because Obama) and are making apologies for the NSA. Yet these very same people were very anti war when Bush was President and were having a stroke when they found out about wiretapping etc.


Am I the only who sees this? I am not making this up.

We've discussed this phenomenon at length here on RI...you're definitely not alone!

Again, if Bush had assassinated an American Colorado teen who was completely an innocent kid, there'd be riots on the streets by the liberals.

[SonicG]

Drew would you expand on your psiwar and Larouche comment. I just want to understand, it sounds about right to me if I am understanding you properly. Are you saying these shooters ARE REAL but basically they are the result of various players pushing various conspiracy theories WITH THE HOPE AND INTENTION that it will TILT the crazies in to doing things like this and then the events are used to bring about certain ends.

Because when you say the shooting is the result of a psiwar I can only read it THAT WAY or youre saying the shootings are staged and I know youre not saying that.

I am genuinely interested in this idea so if you would elaborate how it works I would be thrilled to learn more.

yeah, that's about it. aquino/larouche tactics. tie as many people's heads up in as many knots as needed. signal-to-noise goes to hell. and a generation with no attention-span can't even begin to face the reality of not having a fucking clue what's going on.

the primary goal is in no way "taking away guns" or any of that bullshit, it's about utterly destroying civil society and any chance of the people to govern themselves. Thus making room for the new warlords to take over.

Yep - very succinctly put. Part of the destruction of civil society also has to do with removing any inkling of teaching critical thought to the masses - something that the emphasis on testing has certainly helped. The ability to create these "catch-word demons" in the minds of these two is fairly obvious when you read what they wrote - it essentially says nothing that relates to the reality.

The "One worlders" make me cry. As if the border between Pakistan and India (as one example of many) is just going to fall away over night any time soon...

[Hunter]

Remove critical thought but trick them in to thinking they are the only ones who can think critically enough to see what is happening because they are 'awake' and everyone else alseep.

This Vegas shooter was fond of saying this on his FB page, that he and his wife were blessed with being awake and being able 'to see' while everyone else was sleep and they were gonna save the world for us, their gift to us, they were gonna give their lives so the PTB couldnt take our gun.

Right, thanks buddy, you made a real fucking difference shitbag.

Someone needs to stand up and teach these people that we all need to start treating eachother A LOT more civilly because our own uncivil behavior towards one another is the real threat to freedom and our way of life and its future.

[Hunter]

I know people who process these conspiracy theory links and websites in their brains like supercomputers (or rather kids with with no attention span) they go from one article to the next. False flags, gun grabs, FEMA camps, Obama birth certificate, NWO, no planes etc.

I am like dude, settle the fuck down and step back and actually think about what you are reading, there are no gun grabs, aint gonna happen, there are no concentration camps just outside of your town, Obama was not born in Kenya, 911 was most certainly an inside job on some level but you shitbags ruined that discussion for all of us with your loony toons so lets not even go there. We ARE under attack but it is this shit youre reading that they are using to attack us!

"Dude, youre alseep, talkin like a sheeple, you just cant see it, too much MSG man."


I figured out a long time ago they take a nugget of truth they dont want us to know about and they wrap it up in this huge kooky tinfoil conspiracy theory then get the conspiracy theorists all worked up in to a lather so that they do stupid shit like this and then everyone dismisses them along with that little nugget of hidden truth, psiwar mission accomplised.

[BOOGIE66]

Wow...a school shooting in Portland. I think we're on track for a mass public shooting every day in America now days.

When we in America have a government that goes around murdering villagers with sky robot drones like it was a damn video game with no judge or jury, is it any wonder we have all these mass shootings, gun worship and inner city violence? Our tax dollar paid leaders show life is a cheap, meaningless video game so it's no wonder we have daily mass shootings in America.

I think that part of it is the obsession with winning that a large number of people in the US have. People raise their kids teaching them that losing is unacceptable, no excuses, you do what it takes to be first, win win win and and if that means putting a cap in someones ass so be it no one is taught how to deal with losing in a healthy manner, so they do the chickenshit thing to "win"

[BOOGIE66]

Yea, I just meant that I see a lot of liberals that I know self identify as being left wing liberals, who HATE Greenwald, Hate Snowden, support the war (because Obama) and are making apologies for the NSA. Yet these very same people were very anti war when Bush was President and were having a stroke when they found out about wiretapping etc.


Am I the only who sees this? I am not making this up.

No I see it all the time and it goes both ways. People who were pro-war and accepting of being wiretapped etc when Bush was doing it, shitting bricks because Obama is now doing it. Only changing positions if "their" guy is in charge. It's really intellectual dishonesty of the worst kind.

[Hunter]

You got it, very dishonest indeed!

[8bitagent]

"Awake"? These two confused breaking bad customers are about as asleep as possible. All that Tea Party gun nut right wingery shit is akin to masturbating in one's own feces. It's the ultimate asleep.
I can't even be associated with 9/11 "truth" or most this conspiracy stuff anymore thanks to the mindless idiocy of the last decade

[American Dream]

Mental illness is a big, big factor in these sorts of things too. I think we're all struggling to heal, to be better in this world, so I don't want to pathologize that too much but not only are extreme/fanatical/totalistic conspiracy narratives attractive to folks struggling with mental illness, such narratives don't necessarily help maintain mental balance either. At least, that is what I have seen. Your mileage may vary.