Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

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Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

Postby Forgetting2 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:34 am

Wombaticus Rex » 09 Jun 2015 07:04 wrote:Thank you for asking, but I'd rather keep my rant here and fairly anonymous.

I've got a lot of friends and family actively involved with this now, so I'm better off keeping my clarity to myself.

The extent of my interest in 2016 is limited to finding people willing to bet actual money that Rand Paul can win it.


Fair enough
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Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

Postby conniption » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:00 pm

Bernie Sanders Rally in Madison, Wisconsin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OewBDIwy-O4
Bernie 2016
Streamed live on Jul 1, 2015
Bernie Sanders holds a campaign rally in Madison, Wisconsin


~

NY Mag

July 2, 2015

Bernie Sanders Fills Arena in Wisconsin With Nearly 10,000 Excited Supporters


By Jaime Fuller

Image

Senator Bernie Sanders held a rally at the Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Madison, Wisconsin, on Wednesday, and you would have thought he was Beyoncé or One Direction by the size of the crowd and the utterly overwhelmed and excited faces in it.

The arena seats just over 10,000, and it was nearly filled to the brim with around 9,600 people.

“In case you haven’t noticed," he said, "there are a lot of people here." He added, “Tonight we have made history. Tonight we have more people at a meeting for a candidate for president of the United States than any other candidates have.”

The only crowd that has been larger attended Senator Ted Cruz's presidential announcement at Liberty University, according to MSNBC. Attendance was mandatory at that event, and around 11,000 people showed up.
continued...
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Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

Postby zangtang » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:58 pm

churlish to wonder if thats an indication of how much people don't want Hillary?
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Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

Postby justdrew » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:38 am

I think I have video of Michael Moore having filled that same venue on a book tour for 'dude where's my country' in the early 2000s.

It's nice. maybe he'll make a difference, but in the end I seriously doubt there's enough numbers to elect him, too many dumb shits out there, too much apathy, to much hopelessness, but still, I guess I'll root him on.
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Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

Postby Nordic » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:22 pm

I don't think anybody really WANTS Hillary.

They've been spoonfed the notion that she's inevitable, and she's not a Repub.

People don't vote for who they want now, they vote against who they don't want.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:41 pm

Bernie Sanders on why elites are in for a shock: “The discontent of the American people is far, far greater”
The chattering class doesn't see it yet, but America is ripe for a political revolution, Sanders tells The Nation

SOPHIA TESFAYE

In a new wide-ranging interview with The Nation, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) swears off campaign contributions from the fossil fuel industry, promises to visit red states like Alabama during his campaign, and finally tackles the issue of police brutality.

Sanders quickly pointed to the level of black teen unemployment to explain his campaign’s rise, and argued that amid soaring inequality, “the discontent of the American people is far, far greater than the pundits understand.” And Sanders finally addressed growing calls for his campaign to address police brutality and issues of race relations, acknowledging “that is a major issue that has to be dealt with. And we will deal with it, period.”

Sanders recalled his long history working on civil rights, “I got arrested in trying to desegregate Chicago’s school system,” but was quick to push back on the notion that his campaign has failed to address issues like race relations in favor of more populist economic rhetoric. “I do not separate the civil-rights issue from the fact that 50 percent of African-American young people are either unemployed or underemployed. ” Invoking Dr. Martin Luther King, Sanders said, “The issue that Dr. King raised all the time was: This is great if we want to desegregate restaurants or hotels, but what does it matter if people can’t afford to go to them? That’s still the issue today.”

And the Independent senator confronted the stigma surrounding his affiliation as a democratic socialist: “Do they think I’m afraid of the word? I’m not afraid of the word,” Sanders insisted before ticking off a list of “accomplishments” in Scandinavian countries like Denmark that have adopted a democratic-socialist approach, including tuition-free college, universal health care, and guaranteed paid maternity and paternity leave to argue that most Americans would support such measures:

I happen to believe that, if the American people understood the significant accomplishments that have taken place under social-democratic governments, democratic-socialist governments, labor governments throughout Europe, they would be shocked to know about those accomplishments. One of the goals of this campaign is to advance that understanding.


Sanders also proposed a bipartisan debate schedule, including a one-on-one debate with Republican Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker.

“The Republicans get away with murder because what they do and what they want is not seen, is not understood by the American people, because it’s not talked about,” Sanders exclaimed. His solution? Include Republicans in the Democratic primary debates, “I think the more that we can confront Republicans about their ideology of tax breaks for the billionaires and cuts to every program that is a benefit to the American people, and can expose them for their subservience to the billionaire class—I think that wins for us every single time … when we do that, the Republican agenda will be exposed for the disaster it is.”

“Let the Republicans defend why they want to give tax breaks to the billionaires and make massive cuts in Medicare. I would love to hear it,” he added.

But on nearly ever issue, Sanders was quick to point out the real cause of some of America’s issues, corporations:

On domestic surveillance:

Sanders reiterated his opposition to the Patriot Act but also criticized out the role of corporations in the surveillance state, “We have to recognize that corporations collect huge amounts of data on us.There is no question in my mind that technology is outpacing public policy in this area, and I do not think we should be casual about this or say that it’s something we should let the corporations figure out. We should all be talking about this—about how we’re going to maintain our privacy rights in very rapidly changing times.

On immigration:

Sanders blasted the “politics of division” from impeding real comprehensive immigration reform and allowing for the exploitation of undocumented workers, “we have to address that exploitation and end it. We also have to speak about who benefits from that exploitation: the same corporations that we see pushing these race-to-the-bottom policies … Look, the problem isn’t with this group of workers or that group of workers. The problem is with the corporations and the policies that make the exploitation possible.”

On net neutrality:

Sanders once again pointed to the controlling role of corporations and access to the internet, “This is about the free flow of information, the free flow of ideas, on the Internet. If we let corporations put a price tag on that, so that some ideas move more quickly than other ideas because a billionaire is paying for an advantage, that changes the debate in a way that harms democracy.”

On Hillary Clinton:

Sanders pushed back on calls to attack his Democratic opponent, saying, “That is the corporate media’s worldview. That is their only understanding of how a campaign can be run: when one candidate attacks the other candidate.”
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until the TV's dead & gone

Postby IanEye » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:59 pm

On Hillary Clinton:

Sanders pushed back on calls to attack his Democratic opponent, saying, “That is the corporate media’s worldview. That is their only understanding of how a campaign can be run: when one candidate attacks the other candidate.”


*




Image


*




It is deeply ingrained into the GOP psyche that it is better, and more enjoyable, to attack something than it is to defend something.

There is not a single GOP candidate that the rank and file want to defend more than they want to attack Hillary Clinton.
They would much rather attack her from 2017 to 2021 than defend any of the riders in the clown car.

It is the GOP that wants her more than the Democrats.
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Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

Postby Nordic » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:21 pm

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/07/ ... and-maine/

Have to agree with this 100%

JULY 7, 2015
Sanders Bullshit Meter Goes Off the Charts in Portland, Maine
by BRUCE K. GAGNON




Email
I spent two hours yesterday holding a banner (joined by eight others with signs and a 2nd banner) outside the Bernie Sanders for President rally in Portland, Maine that reportedly drew about 9,000 people. It was an impressive crowd for someone who once claimed he was a ‘socialist’.

People began lining up before 5:00 pm for the 7:00 event and during those two hours I kept a steady stream of requests going to folks as they entered the Portland Civic Center. I suggested to eager Sanders supporters, “Please ask Bernie his position on the $400 billion F-35 fighter plane project. Ask him if it is true that he has lobbied to bring the plane to Vermont?”

I suggested to the excited crowd, with many young people in line, that they might ask Sanders, “His position on NATO expansion up to Russia’s border – can we really afford war with Russia?”

“Informed citizens need to know the answers to Bernie’s foreign policy – he’s not talking about these issues,” I said.

Once the line had ended I folded up my banner and made a dash inside just as the rally was starting. All seats in the arena were taken and the entry onto the floor was blocked but I wedged my way down onto the hockey stadium floor within 25 feet of the stage that Sanders was speaking from. The candidate was getting huge applause as he took on Wall St, the Koch brothers, income inequality and the like. He touched on all the traditional progressive buttons just like I’d heard Jesse Jackson, Ralph Nader, and Dennis Kucinich do in the past. Women’s issues, single-payer health care, student loans hitting young people, and more were addressed. Sanders called for free college tuition for all. He wants to create millions of new jobs. He talked about fixing our neglected and broken infrastructure. He hit hard on climate change calling for a sustainable society.

It was when he mentioned climate change that I figured he had to talk about the military industrial complex, because after all that is the pot of gold that has to be tapped in order to pay for building the new vision of America that Bernie so eloquently laid out. But nothing was said about the metastasizing Pentagon budget nor a mumbling word was spoken about foreign policy. Nothing about Russia (Sanders does support sanctions on Moscow), nothing about NATO expansion, nothing about Israel’s brutal attacks on Gaza (Sanders has publicly supported Tel Aviv’s attacks on Palestinians), nothing about negotiations with Iran, nothing about waste, fraud, abuse at the Pentagon, nothing about our endless wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Ukraine, etc, and nothing about conversion of the military industrial complex to peaceful production.

After making many social program promises the only thing Bernie mentioned as a way to pay for all of this was a tax on “Wall Street speculation” which of course got a big cheer.

I really didn’t disagree with anything in Bernie’s speech last night. He is adept at pulling all the right strings and it is more than evident that the public is hungry for some real push back against the power of the corporate oligarchy (he even used the word oligarchy) that runs Washington.

I left wondering how many people noticed that he never once mentioned military and foreign policy? It’s rather hard to imagine making a speech to 9,000 people and asking them to vote for you to be president but avoiding the elephant in the middle of the room. The Pentagon now rakes in 55% of every discretionary tax dollar so you’d think that would be on the table as a campaign issue. But it is not which makes me more than alarmed.

My bullshit meter went off the charts last night. I’ve seen this song and dance before. But it doesn’t really matter what I think because those 9,000 mostly liberal democrats left the Civic Center last night thinking they have found another shining knight on a white horse to lead them to victory. But victory won’t be within their grasp unless we can talk about the US imperial war project that is draining our nation, killing people all over the world, and helping to increase climate change as the Pentagon has the largest carbon bootprint on the planet. Sure taxes on Wall Street speculation will help some, but until we get our hands on the Pentagon’s pot of gold nothing really changes around here…..just saying.

Bruce K. Gagnon is coordinator of the Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space based in Brunswick, Maine.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

Postby Hunter » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:20 pm

Bernie is the closest thing we are ever going to get to a real, genuine third party type candidate with any sort of glimmer of hope of winning. He IS third party fringe candidate but he knows running as a third party candidate is a battle that cannot be won, first of all it is almost impossible to get your name on the ballot in all 50 states as a third party candidate and secondly and even more importantly, you do not get to take part in the debates. He is wisely using the two party system against them and running as a democrat to beat them at their own game.

Let me be clear though, I do not think Bernie will win, they will not allow that to happen. Bernie is not like the others. Bernie is a big FUCK YOU to the system as we know it, if he were to win he would most certainly shake things up and turn shit upsidedown and he would be in a good position to make good on his lifelong fight and promise to take money out of politics, keep in mind Bernie has never taken a dime from big corporations, he has raised all his money from LOTS of small time donors donating 250 dollars or less, he does take money from unions but no big corporations like the rest of them do.

I honestly believe Bernie is the last chance we have before the world goes full Terminator mode, if Bush or Clinton win we all may as well throw in the towel. We NEED Bernie RIGHT NOW in the worst possible way, he is the only chance we have and the only candidate that represents REAL AND RADICAL CHANGE that has a glimmer of hope of winning. He is drawing record crowds everywhere he goes, IF the system is not as manipulated as I believe it to be Bernie very well could and should be our next President, but I do not believe the system will allow that no matter what the people say and want or who they vote for.

I will work torelessly for the guy, this is about it for me, I am getting too old to fight like this for much longer, this is really last chance I have to enjoy the prime of my life with someone I truly believe in and trust at the helm.

I do not believe Bernie is an op or part of their plan or any of that, I believe he is very much his own man and he will in fact shake things up and bring about some radical change in the way this country does business, I understand his hands will be tied by the Congress for the most part but he is, once again, a big FUCK YOU to the system as we know it and he may be the last real chance we have to open the door to other third party type candidates to run and make a difference in the future.

I do not say any of this lightly, I have given this a lot of thought, I have pretty much been done with politics for a long time, resigned to accept that things were fucked, going to get worse and there was not a whole lot we could do about it, but Bernie has awakened some hope in me and I believe he is a sincere and genuine man and the right person for the job at this time in our nation's history, we are at an important cross roads RIGHT NOW and I suggest people recognize that and get out and do what they can to help this man win.
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Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

Postby Hunter » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:22 pm

I have read that Bernie is attracting record crowds at every campaign stop while some company has come forward and said other top candidates are using their services to RENT CROWDS to attend their events.
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Re: .

Postby Hunter » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:30 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:46 pm wrote:
IanEye » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:42 pm wrote:It is like Sanders wants to make some points, but ultimately prefers Clinton in the office as opposed to Bush.


Your assessment is dead on; he's about as serious as Ben Carlson.

Nobody on his staff seems to think this is a serious bid for anything but raising his national profile to increase his clout in DC. It's a PR campaign; it is not a presidential campaign.

Edit: I want to state things strongly and clearly. The cynicism of this bothers me.

Bernie Sanders is going to spend the next 12 months promoting Facebook memes about "inequality" -- forgive me if I don't think being an info-warrior means much in the filter bubble echo chamber that is Big Blue -- and all of those memes will feature his fucking face. Bernie Sanders is working with a ghostwriter on a book. If not for the seriousness of the issues he is discussing, this would be Herman Cain level shit.

Bernie Sanders is going to be fundraising for a campaign he not only knows he won't win, but won't even seriously pursue. He is going to burn donations from idealists until it's time, inevitably, to get in line and support Hillary 2016.

So who is he really campaigning against? Elizabeth Warren. He's doing the Clinton family a big favor with this. And I get to spend a whole year watching people praise him for his courage and vision and message.

Whatever. Hopefully I get some contracts out of it, right? Let it burn, let it burn.


I concede that you know a hell of a lot more about Bernie than I do since he is your Senator after all, and maybe I have taken the bait, I do not fall for these tricks often, its been a long, long time since any politician has ever gotten me excited and ready to get out and work for him. Bernie has done that for me, perhaps I am niave and stupid and falling for more BS and maybe he is doing the Clinton family a favor as you say. That is very hard for me to believe in this case, anyone else sure, but with Bernie I am having a hard time swallowing it. I guess we will just have to wait and see, I fully respect your opinion and contributions around here, always have, one of my favorite members on RI for many years now and youre probably right about all of this, but this is it for me, one last go at it and if it all turns out to be BS them I will crawl back in to my hole and be done with politics for good once again. I want this very much to not be the case but it is hard to deny what you say since you are so much closer to Bernie and his history than I am.
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Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

Postby Hunter » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:49 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:34 pm wrote:I like your motif of dual polarity. Bernie Sanders is an asshole in person, a stunningly self-absorbed and calculating political creature given to utterances so tone-deaf you just want to pray for his staff. Bernie Sanders is the best (perhaps only?) friend veterans have in Washington DC, and certainly the only politician accepting money from unions who is actually looking out for their interests. Bernie Sanders has made his office into a training ground for smart, dedicated progressives, most of whom have gone on to political/functionary careers. Bernie Sanders is a product, wisely marketed as "Socialist" but assembled from entirely Democrat parts.

So to be fair to the complex bouquet of crazy hair and mixed motivations on display in this thread, his ties to NatSec are both inevitable and second-hand, owing largely -- not entirely; largely -- to his long-standing friendship/partnership/kayfabe rivalry with Senator Patrick Leahy. He's also made the news recently for not supporting recent AIPAC PR pushes, and as a Jew from New York, again, his ties here are inevitable. He has negotiated a comfortable peace with both camps: they know he's not going to cheerlead for them -- but they also know he won't make problems for them.

Bernie built his image here in Vermont off his support for farmers, and again: good intentions make for mixed results, at best. His legacy is pretty tainted now -- his work for milk subsidies wound up benefiting Agribusiness conglomerates more than small farmers, and today Vermont's farming system is an absurd anachronism, running on illegal immigrant labor (I know that's a charged term, but it's also an objective description, sorry) and Federal subsidies and dumping legally-protected, shit-packed pollution in Lake Champlain, once a gem but now a festering 125 mile petri dish of faecal coliform fun.

The nature of Washington, DC is such that compromised candidates don't leave much of a paper trail, but I will end on this note: his voting record speaks volumes. After changing his mind on his support for the Iraq War, he famously remarked that "Congress can no longer act as a rubber stamp for the President." Observe his change of heart once a Democrat made it to 1600 Pennsylvania.

Edited to add -- because I don't think it's a personal shortcoming or aesthetic decison that politicians make when they integrate themselves into the system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthr ... he_letters



Good stuff and thanks for all the insight, I need to hear these kinds of things. Curious though what is the connection between the anthrax letters and Senator Sanders besides one of them being sent to his friend Leahy. Wrt to those letters, I noted long ago that those letters were sent to Daschle and Leahy, the two Senators who at that time were strongly against the Patriot act and the letters were sent one week before the final Senate vote for the Patriot Act was to take place and both of those Senators changed their positions after recieving those letters and ended up voting for that legislation, I always felt the timing of all of that was very interesting and telling.
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Re: .

Postby Hunter » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:53 pm

IanEye » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:42 pm wrote:It is interesting that Sanders, an Independent, would choose to run as a Democrat in 2016.
As opposed to making a '92 style Perot run for office.
If Sanders did that, then he would be debating both Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush in September of 2016.
He would be on the ballot in November of 2016 as an option.

Instead, running as a Democrat, Sanders will be over quite early on.

It is like Sanders wants to make some points, but ultimately prefers Clinton in the office as opposed to Bush.


The reason he said he is running as a Dem is because it is an uphill battle for a third party candidate to get on the ballot in all 50 states and also that he would likely be excluded from the debates, so he chose to run as a democrat to avoid all of those issues, make sure he is on the ballot and most of all be certain that he is involved in those debates. I dont know anymore how all of that works but those were the precise reasons he gave in a REDDIT Ask Me Anything that he did several months ago, he was very entertaining and funny, seemed like a really good dude and gave straight honest answers to questions only redditors ask.
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Re: .

Postby Hunter » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:19 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:46 pm wrote:
IanEye » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:42 pm wrote:It is like Sanders wants to make some points, but ultimately prefers Clinton in the office as opposed to Bush.


Your assessment is dead on; he's about as serious as Ben Carlson.

Nobody on his staff seems to think this is a serious bid for anything but raising his national profile to increase his clout in DC. It's a PR campaign; it is not a presidential campaign.

Edit: I want to state things strongly and clearly. The cynicism of this bothers me.

Bernie Sanders is going to spend the next 12 months promoting Facebook memes about "inequality" -- forgive me if I don't think being an info-warrior means much in the filter bubble echo chamber that is Big Blue -- and all of those memes will feature his fucking face. Bernie Sanders is working with a ghostwriter on a book. If not for the seriousness of the issues he is discussing, this would be Herman Cain level shit.

Bernie Sanders is going to be fundraising for a campaign he not only knows he won't win, but won't even seriously pursue. He is going to burn donations from idealists until it's time, inevitably, to get in line and support Hillary 2016.

So who is he really campaigning against? Elizabeth Warren. He's doing the Clinton family a big favor with this. And I get to spend a whole year watching people praise him for his courage and vision and message.

Whatever. Hopefully I get some contracts out of it, right? Let it burn, let it burn.


Do you have any links about him working with a ghostwriter on a book? There is nothing really wrong with that, I do it for a living. I have ghostwritten12 books, writing a book is not something just anyone can do and I would assume Bernie is pretty busy so he hires someone to do it for him, we get paid and he gets his name on the book, there is nothing really shady about it. I write lots of things that other people end up taking credit for and putting their names on it, it pays well and those of us who do it have no problem with it at all, we are writers and we get hired and paid to write for others who may not have the time or skill to do it themselves.


I woulld like to know more about this though, just out of curisoity, I had not heard of this until now, though I do not doubt your information at all, I appreciate all you have shared about Bernie. Like I said before, these are things I need to know about that are not easily found on google searches and are coming from someone who lives in the state he represents.
Last edited by Hunter on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: .

Postby Hunter » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:28 pm

BrandonD » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:09 pm wrote:
Wombaticus Rex » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:46 am wrote:
IanEye » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:42 pm wrote:It is like Sanders wants to make some points, but ultimately prefers Clinton in the office as opposed to Bush.


Your assessment is dead on; he's about as serious as Ben Carlson.

Nobody on his staff seems to think this is a serious bid for anything but raising his national profile to increase his clout in DC. It's a PR campaign; it is not a presidential campaign.

Edit: I want to state things strongly and clearly. The cynicism of this bothers me.

Bernie Sanders is going to spend the next 12 months promoting Facebook memes about "inequality" -- forgive me if I don't think being an info-warrior means much in the filter bubble echo chamber that is Big Blue -- and all of those memes will feature his fucking face. Bernie Sanders is working with a ghostwriter on a book. If not for the seriousness of the issues he is discussing, this would be Herman Cain level shit.

Bernie Sanders is going to be fundraising for a campaign he not only knows he won't win, but won't even seriously pursue. He is going to burn donations from idealists until it's time, inevitably, to get in line and support Hillary 2016.

So who is he really campaigning against? Elizabeth Warren. He's doing the Clinton family a big favor with this. And I get to spend a whole year watching people praise him for his courage and vision and message.

Whatever. Hopefully I get some contracts out of it, right? Let it burn, let it burn.


Thank you for this info. This level of tactical political scheming is honestly above my head.


Yea that kind of political tactical scheming is par for the course in Washington, that is how the whole system works and is set up. The idealist in me did not want to consider that Bernie was playing that game, yes I should know better, the same shit happened with Ron Paul, he never had a chance to win but he ran a good PR campaign and raised his political stature and clout and I assume he knew from the very beginning he had no chance and every time he told the crowds he did have a chance, he knew he was lying, I just wanted to think Bernie was different. I trust Womby enough to know he doesnt just say things to hear himself talk, he takes things like this pretty seriously and tells it like it is. Its a sad day for me but none of it should really come as a surprise, again, I SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
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