I have hesitated to even jump into this mess, but it's getting so ridiculous I can't help but throw my voice into the mix.
Mac, you are a long-time poster, and I have a lot of respect for what you have brought to the board over the years, but you're over-reaching with your demands and insinuations on this topic. And before you assume you know what's in my mind, no, I'm not a member of the "church of mateen dunnit," but nor am I so incredulous as to assume that the fact a witness description doesn't include the info you seek means it is inherently invalid. I think the "was he wearing pants?" analogy makes the point quite well.
You simultaneously state, in the same post no less,
Reminder: 1) No one is obliged to contribute to this thread.
and then
Seven hours on: Still no poster has provided even one (in figures: 1) eyewitness, out of the many hundreds, including three named cops/security guards who allegedly survived two separate "shootouts" with the perp at very close range....
and later
Nine hours on, and still only one or two relevant and rational and polite responses to the OP.
So no one is obliged to contribute, but then you take offense at a perceived lack of contribution and go so far as to keep a fucking clock on the matter. And then make those tired, self-righteous comments about how this sheds light on "the state of RI." I'm soooo tired of hearing about the state of RI. I was here in "the good old days." Guess what? They weren't all that immaculate. There were some great posters who are no longer with us, but there was also infiltration, sock-puppetry, flamewars, misinformation, misdirection, etc.... Not that different from today, really. It's sad to see you join JR on the theme of what must be done to "Make RI Great Again."
You have raised some legitimate questions about what we really know and how we know it, and if you weren't such an ass about it, I might be inclined to take some of my valuable time to try and track down whatever evidence the actual investigators have or haven't compiled and attempt to sus out its validity, but I'm not in the habit of responding to childish demands that I be the one to do your own work for you. You've made your search for evidence into a personal battle between posters, and that doesn't serve your purported purpose of finding the truth.
You've played this tune before, and unlike the pop radio earworms produced by Max Martin and advanced algorithms, it does not get catchier the more times it is repeated. Have you ever interviewed a witness in the context of a news story? I have. Not in relation to a mass killing, but in the aftermath of other newsworthy events such as fires, robberies and burglaries, and even including an attempted murder. I once investigated the apparent suicide of a prominent local businessman who turned out to be a con artist who fled federal prosecution and lived in a small community for decades under an assumed name. I did all this as a reporter, however, and as such I can affirm that 1) the things witnesses notice, recollect and recount do not always answer the questions a casual observer may want answered, and 2) despite the similarity of a proper journalist to a police detective, they are not the same thing, and do not have the authority, access, time or leeway to conduct a proper criminal investigation even if they have the inclination to do so. In my reporter days I was plenty skeptical of official sources, and I sure as hell didn't rely on anonymous quotes, but when your job is to write a story about what's happening and the only people who know what's happening are the authorities, you really have only one place to go for your info.
I submit that your expectations are unrealistic in that you assume that because a particular piece of evidence or testimony is not available in the public record, it must not exist. Without speaking to the Orlando incident specifically, it is often the case that relevant evidence is held back by law enforcement for a number of reasons, from not wanting to influence witnesses who have not yet been interviewed, not wanting to taint a trial, to not wanting to reveal something that could theoretically inhibit an investigation if made public. Again, before you attempt to excoriate me, evidence can also be (and is) presented or withheld from the media to to bolster a preferred narrative or avoid embarrassment or uncomfortable questions - but you are making a big leap in demanding posters at RI or even the New York TImes make a prosecutor's case that proves Mateen dunnit beyond a reasonable doubt.
Am I still making sense? I don't know. It's late and I'm tired and annoyed, but I feel a little better now. But before I go, just to try and add something that moves this argument away from the personal, I don't believe I've yet seen any posts here about the fact that the alleged full transcript of the alleged shooter's 911 phone call has now been released. It doesn't add up to the 30 minutes or so of conversation that is said to have taken place, but it is a piece of the larger puzzle, and seems to show that people other than MacC are still trying to find out what happened. You will certainly note that the caller does not identify himself as Mateen.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/20/482826557/citing-unnecessary-distraction-fbi-reverses-stance-on-orlando-gunman-transcriptHours after releasing a partial transcript of Orlando gunman Omar Mateen's 911 phone call with police during the deadly shooting that left 49 victims dead, the FBI has released a new version of the record — one that includes Mateen's pledge of allegiance to ISIS.
The Justice Department's decision to redact references to ISIS and its leader from the transcript took many observers by surprise, particularly as many media outlets, including NPR, have reported that Mateen had pledged his support for ISIS and its leader during phone calls with police.
As we reported this morning, references to ISIS were redacted from the transcript in a move Attorney General Loretta Lynch discussed Sunday. But after the newly released transcript raised questions about what was missing, the Justice Department issued another version Monday afternoon.
In media analysis of the transcripts, part of the confusion seems to stem from uncertainty over what motivated the decision to obscure key information from a primary source of information in a high-profile case. A joint statement by the Justice Department and the FBI seeks to explain its reasoning; here's the full text of that statement:
"The purpose of releasing the partial transcript of the shooter's interaction with 911 operators was to provide transparency, while remaining sensitive to the interests of the surviving victims, their families, and the integrity of the ongoing investigation. We also did not want to provide the killer or terrorist organizations with a publicity platform for hateful propaganda. Unfortunately, the unreleased portions of the transcript that named the terrorist organizations and leaders have caused an unnecessary distraction from the hard work that the FBI and our law enforcement partners have been doing to investigate this heinous crime. As much of this information had been previously reported, we have re-issued the complete transcript to include these references in order to provide the highest level of transparency possible under the circumstances."
Because of the unique circumstances surrounding the transcripts, we'll repeat the acknowledgement we posted this morning:
"NPR and nearly 40 other news organizations last week asked the city of Orlando to release tapes of the 911 calls, dispatch calls, scanner recordings and other records related to the shooting. Those organizations have yet to respond to the decision to release edited transcripts."
Our post on this morning's news conference includes the original version of the partial transcript. Here's the newer version:
"2:35 a.m.: Shooter contacted a 911 operator from inside Pulse. The call lasted approximately 50 seconds, the details of which are set out below:
(OD) Orlando Police Dispatcher
(OM) Omar Mateen
OD: Emergency 911, this is being recorded.
OM: In the name of God the Merciful, the beneficent [Arabic]
OD: What?
OM: Praise be to God, and prayers as well as peace be upon the prophet of God [Arabic]. I wanna let you know, I'm in Orlando and I did the shootings.
OD: What's your name?
OM: My name is I pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi of the Islamic State.
OD: Ok, What's your name?
OM: I pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi may God protect him [Arabic], on behalf of the Islamic State.
OD: Alright, where are you at?
OM: In Orlando.
OD: Where in Orlando?
[End of call.]"
Edited to add this additional, related story from NPR:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/20/482794103/partial-transcripts-of-orlando-gunman-s-911-calls-show-vows-and-threatsPartial Transcripts Of Orlando Gunman's 911 Calls Show Vows And Threats
June 20, 201611:54 AM ET
Bill Chappell
Federal investigators are still filling in details about Omar Mateen; the FBI released partial transcripts of the gunman's calls with police during the June 12 shooting at the Pulse nightclub.
Federal investigators are still filling in details about Omar Mateen; the FBI released partial transcripts of the gunman's calls with police during the June 12 shooting at the Pulse nightclub.
FBI
During his three-hour attack on an Orlando nightclub, gunman Omar Mateen spoke to police negotiators for nearly 30 minutes, according to partial transcripts that the FBI released Monday. But his victims — people trapped in the club — were also on their phones, detailing the situation for police.
Toward the end of the standoff, survivors of the attack also told police "the shooter said he was going to put four vests with bombs on victims within 15 minutes," the FBI says.
FBI Director James Comey (right) delivered an update on the Orlando Fla., shootings shortly after briefing President Obama on the investigation into the killing of 49 people.
The Two-Way
Orlando Gunman Had Been Taken Off Watch List, FBI Director Says
The agency says that while it won't release audio or transcripts of communications from victims inside the club, "significant information obtained from those victims allowed [Orlando Police] to gain knowledge of the situation inside Pulse."
Update at 3:45 p.m.: FBI Releases Complete Transcript
After the FBI initially released redacted versions of the phone transcript, the agency and the Justice Department has now "re-issued the complete transcript" — one that includes references to ISIS and its leader.
Some of the victim's of Sunday's attack.
The Two-Way
'They Were So Beautiful': Remembering Those Murdered In Orlando
You can read our separate post about that development; here's the government's explanation for the change:
"Unfortunately, the unreleased portions of the transcript that named the terrorist organizations and leaders have caused an unnecessary distraction from the hard work that the FBI and our law enforcement partners have been doing to investigate this heinous crime."
Angel Colon, who was injured in the Pulse nightclub shooting, is comforted by siblings during a press conference at the Orlando Regional Medical Center on Tuesday.
The Two-Way
LISTEN: Victim, Doctors Describe 'War Zone' Following Shootings In Orlando
Our original post continues:
In releasing the partial transcripts, U.S. Attorney Lee Bentley said that the materials should be viewed as an aid to understanding the situation that police confronted, saying "lives were saved because of their heroic work."
Bentley and other local and federal officials spoke at a news conference Monday morning, providing more details and an expanded timeline of the June 12 attack.
As we've previously reported, Mateen threatened to use explosives, including a car bomb and a suicide vest. Investigators say they didn't find those items in or outside the club. In the calls, Mateen also identified himself as"an Islamic soldier" who pledged allegiance to a terrorist group, FBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge Ron Hopper said Monday.
Throughout the calls, Hopper says, Mateen spoke in a "chilling, calm and deliberate manner."
During a three-hour span between the time Mateen opened fire on unarmed civilians and when he was killed, "there was no gunfire," Orlando Police Chief John Mina told reporters at Monday's news conference. He added, "our officers were intermittently in and out of that club, saving people, rescuing people from inside the club."
You can read the partial transcripts of the gunman's phone calls below. They include a nearly minute-long communication between Mateen and police dispatchers as well as a summary of the three calls — lasting for 9, 16 and 3 minutes — between Mateen and police negotiators.
A key name is missing from the official text, that of ISIS, the terrorist group to which Mateen reportedly pledged allegiance in the call. The term was redacted, in a move Attorney General Loretta Lynch discussed Sunday. Because of the unique circumstances surrounding the transcripts, we'll acknowledge:
"NPR and nearly 40 other news organizations last week asked the city of Orlando to release tapes of the 911 calls, dispatch calls, scanner recordings and other records related to the shooting. Those organizations have yet to respond to the decision to release edited transcripts."
Law enforcement officials say the FBI is almost finished with its investigation of the crime scene, and that it will return the area to the surrounding community early this week. They also restated a previous finding: that there was no evidence that Mateen was acting under the direction of a foreign terrorist group.
The partial transcripts were released along with an updated timeline of that night —- all of it, the FBI says, based on radio communications within the Orlando Police Department. The agency also notes that the times mentioned are approximate.
From the FBI:
2:02 a.m.: OPD call transmitted multiple shots fired at Pulse nightclub.
2:04 a.m.: Additional OPD officers arrived on scene.
2:08 a.m.: Officers from various law enforcement agencies made entrance to Pulse and engaged the shooter.
2:18 a.m.: OPD S.W.A.T. (Special Weapons & Tactics) initiated a full call-out.
2:35 a.m.: Shooter contacted a 911 operator from inside Pulse. The call lasted approximately 50 seconds, the details of which are set out below:
Orlando Police Dispatcher (OD)
Shooter (OM)
OD: Emergency 911, this is being recorded.
OM: In the name of God the Merciful, the beneficial [in Arabic]
OD: What?
OM: Praise be to God, and prayers as well as peace be upon the prophet of God [in Arabic]. I let you know, I'm in Orlando and I did the shootings.
OD: What's your name?
OM: My name is I pledge of allegiance to [omitted].
OD: Ok, What's your name?
OM: I pledge allegiance to [omitted] may God protect him [in Arabic], on behalf of [omitted].
OD: Alright, where are you at?
OM: In Orlando.
OD: Where in Orlando?
[End of call.]
What role does social media take on, when a shooter checks Facebook during the attack?
All Tech Considered
In An Age Of Online Sharing, Of Course The Monsters Do It Too
"(Shortly thereafter, the shooter engaged in three conversations with OPD's Crisis Negotiation Team.)
2:48 a.m.: First crisis negotiation call occurred lasting approximately nine minutes.
3:03 a.m.: Second crisis negotiation call occurred lasting approximately 16 minutes.
3:24 a.m.: Third crisis negotiation call occurred lasting approximately three minutes.
"In these calls, the shooter, who identified himself as an Islamic soldier, told the crisis negotiator that he was the person who pledged his allegiance to [omitted], and told the negotiator to tell America to stop bombing Syria and Iraq and that is why he was 'out here right now.' When the crisis negotiator asked the shooter what he had done, the shooter stated, 'No, you already know what I did.' The shooter continued, stating, 'There is some vehicle outside that has some bombs, just to let you know. You people are gonna get it, and I'm gonna ignite it if they try to do anything stupid." Later in the call with the crisis negotiator, the shooter stated that he had a vest, and further described it as the kind they "used in France." The shooter later stated, 'In the next few days, you're going to see more of this type of action going on.' The shooter hung up and multiple attempts to get in touch with him were unsuccessful.
"4:21 a.m.: OPD pulled an air conditioning unit out of a Pulse dressing room window for victims to evacuate.
(While the FBI will not be releasing transcripts of OPD communication with victims, significant information obtained from those victims allowed OPD to gain knowledge of the situation inside Pulse.)
4:29 a.m.: As victims were being rescued, they told OPD the shooter said he was going to put four vests with bombs on victims within 15 minutes.
(An immediate search of the shooter's vehicle on scene and inside Pulse ultimately revealed no vest or improvised explosive device.)
5:02 a.m.: OPD SWAT and OCSO Hazardous Device Team began to breach wall with explosive charge and armored vehicle to make entry.
5:14 a.m.: OPD radio communication stated that shots were fired.
5:15 a.m.: OPD radio communication stated that OPD engaged the suspect and the suspect was reported down."
"When I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink!"
