Fuck Obama

[82_28]

Fascism and calling somebody a fascist aren't things that can be apologized for, as if Nordic would owe a fascist an apology.

No fascist deserves an apology. I stand on my own two feet, I can think for myself and am more concerned for others than I am myself as helping others ensures cohesive community. To be fascist, to buy in to a cult of personality, to maintain that what is in plain sight yet proclaim the opposite is a pathology. Never ever expect an apology from an anti-fascist. You can either join us or you can continue in your ways of worshiping a figure who comes straight out of technocratic central casting. Your call. However, in order to join "us" you have to promise to never ever make excuses for those above you. You gotta use your head. No Gods, No masters. Then you will be accepted. However as an "anti-fascist" all are accepted equally, so you're still in.

See, this is the point. You have choices in front of you -- YOU. These aren't made by some leader who dribbles it down onto the public and fully expects them, ALL OF THEM, to buy everything whole cloth and then central casting comes up with the reverse image in order to foment "discussion" and "debate" and "occasional violence". If you Obamanauts think that Obama is for real and still think the tea partiers are some kind of an unholy aberration of corporations and fake grass roots movements, you've got another thing coming. It is all one in the same. You have merely fallen for the flavor they have branded in order to ensnare your demographic. And then you argue about it. You become smug about it.

Go be honest with yourselves and then come back and try to take all the pretending out of your claims, statements and positions and understand that no matter which "side" you may be on we're all getting played. It's the way IT works. This shit is a streamlined machine made to look as though it has kludgy features. It's all part of the lubrication.

[Simulist]

So this is a grand strategy to "win" in 2012... But if Obama continue to perpetuate the Bush/Cheney tradition of shredding the Bill of Rights as one of his tactics in order to "win," then what have we won?

I agree that this is a major issue. That said, you have to be in the game in order to use the "we" in the question you pose.

Considering our current democratic charade, your metaphor of a "game" is apt, even if misapplied.

As a citizen of the United States I am part of "we," by definition.

Refusing to play a pointless "game" that masquerades as "democracy" is refusing to lend credibility to an illusion of choice — a lie — that keeps America's hapless population brainwashed into believing that it is "free."

Simply being the angry parent yelling at your kid from the sideline doesn't qualify.

Neither does continuing to play "the game" of Pretend Democracy™. (But by all means, go through the motions all you like. That is, after all, what "the game" — a variation of charades — is all about.)

Bottom line, if the other team wins this time around, you'll never find out what you might have won.

Bottom line: there is no "other team."

Both pretend "teams" symbiotically support each other, much like "the left hand" washing "the right hand." To imagine that "the left hand" truly opposes "the right hand" is an error — both in perception and in discernment — and it has clearly become an error of choice for many people by now.

You'll certainly find yourself a loser, even though you were never in the game.

In this "game" of Pretend Democracy™ everyone comes up the loser — except for the relative few who truly benefit from "the game" of course.

[Cosmic Cowbell]

Fascism and calling somebody a fascist aren't things that can be apologized for, as if Nordic would owe a fascist an apology.

No fascist deserves an apology. I stand on my own two feet, I can think for myself and am more concerned for others than I am myself as helping others ensures cohesive community. To be fascist, to buy in to a cult of personality, to maintain that what is in plain sight yet proclaim the opposite is a pathology. Never ever expect an apology from an anti-fascist. You can either join us or you can continue in your ways of worshiping a figure who comes straight out of technocratic central casting. Your call. However, in order to join "us" you have to promise to never ever make excuses for those above you. You gotta use your head. No Gods, No masters. Then you will be accepted. However as an "anti-fascist" all are accepted equally, so you're still in.

See, this is the point. You have choices in front of you -- YOU. These aren't made by some leader who dribbles it down onto the public and fully expects them, ALL OF THEM, to buy everything whole cloth and then central casting comes up with the reverse image in order to foment "discussion" and "debate" and "occasional violence". If you Obamanauts think that Obama is for real and still think the tea partiers are some kind of an unholy aberration of corporations and fake grass roots movements, you've got another thing coming. It is all one in the same. You have merely fallen for the flavor they have branded in order to ensnare your demographic. And then you argue about it. You become smug about it.

Go be honest with yourselves and then come back and try to take all the pretending out of your claims, statements and positions and understand that no matter which "side" you may be on we're all getting played. It's the way IT works. This shit is a streamlined machine made to look as though it has kludgy features. It's all part of the lubrication.

I appreciate and understand your point of view 82_28. As I would hope you would mine. If it makes you feel better to call those who engage in political debate (in essence, anyone that opposes -your- worldview - it's pointless right?) as somehow under the influence of a "cult of personality" (see: Kool Aid Drinker, "Sheeple" etc etc) or dupes, that is your prerogative. However, I would urge you to engage once in awhile with those who benefit from the differences between political ideologies. This would include women who desire the right to choose, the medically afflicted who find relief in medical marijuana, the family who won't get denied medical insurance (or get kicked off of it) because of devastating illness, people from foreign countries afflicted with AIDS who can now seek treatment in the US, those who see hope in Stem Cell research, those who see the need to pursue alternative energy sources and address Climate Change and on and fucking on. Or maybe go speak with those who have lost their homes, jobs and dreams because of the republican policies implemented during the Bush regime and ask them if there's a difference.

Life is kludgy dude and by extension, politics. Get used to it. If nothing else, allow others to do so without name calling and/or labeling - Obamanauts -Really? (which BTW, is a distinct tool of the fascist).

As for my inclusion in your "anti-fascist" club - I suggest you start one and at that point, I'll consider it. Until then, I'll pass.

[Twyla LaSarc]

I have always hated the team/game anaology.

Thinking of politics in those terms has relegated entire swaths of people unthinkingly voting for the 'team' that they always have due to laziness, habit, heredity, etc. "D" or "R", red or blue, half the thought has been leeched from the process just by making it the equivalent of 'Niners vs Falcons' or whatever. And they will vote in any manner of political inbred simply on behalf of the 'team'.

I don't think this world is gonna get any better until we can stop thinking in terms of games, sports, teams, win, lose, etc. Co-operative endeavor is not easily achieved in a competition/winning-at-all-cost environmemnt.

[norton ash]

League expansion would help.

[Cosmic Cowbell]

I have always hated the team/game analogy.

Thinking of politics in those terms has relegated entire swaths of people unthinkingly voting for the 'team' that they always have due to laziness, habit, heredity, etc.

You forgot "reality".

I don't think this world is gonna get any better until we can stop thinking in terms of games, sports, teams, win, lose, etc. Co-operative endeavor is not easily achieved in a competition/winning-at-all-cost environment.

Tell it to the brothers Koch and see how far you get...they do nothing -but- poor millions into -their- "team", while the far left debates the intellectual subtleties of the "game" analogy. And we wonder how we got here?....

[Simulist]

I have always hated the team/game analogy.

Thinking of politics in those terms has relegated entire swaths of people unthinkingly voting for the 'team' that they always have due to laziness, habit, heredity, etc.

You forgot "reality".

I don't think this world is gonna get any better until we can stop thinking in terms of games, sports, teams, win, lose, etc. Co-operative endeavor is not easily achieved in a competition/winning-at-all-cost environment.

Tell it to the brothers Koch and see how far you get...they do nothing -but- poor millions into -their- "team", while the far left debates the intellectual subtleties of the "game" analogy. And we wonder how we got here?....

We didn't "get here" because people were discussing things.

We "got here" because people were duped into a political delusion of a bona fide democracy — and they accepted that delusion as "reality."

[Cosmic Cowbell]

We "got here" because people were duped into a political delusion of a bona fide democracy — and they accepted that delusion as "reality."

These Democrats died for nothing then, is that it?

[Simulist]

We "got here" because people were duped into a political delusion of a bona fide democracy — and they accepted that delusion as "reality."

These Democrats died for nothing then, is that it?

These civil rights workers were murdered for what they believed in.

But you're free to draw whatever conclusions you please, I suppose.

[Cosmic Cowbell]

These Democrats died for nothing then, is that it?

These civil rights workers were murdered for what they believed in.

But you're free to draw whatever conclusions you please, I suppose.

While I appreciate the -attempt- to answer the question, I have to wonder why you dodged it. I didn't ask why or how they died, I asked if they died for nothing (being members of Team Civil Rights and with all that delusional belief in Democracy).

That would be the position of the Pro Fuck crowd here, correct? They died for nothing, right 82_28? Those stupid northern librul kool aid drinking thinking they could make a difference fascist. They probably voted too.

[Simulist]

If it makes you feel any better, the belief in American democracy was less delusional then than it is now.

[Cosmic Cowbell]

If it makes you feel any better, the belief in American democracy was less delusional then than it is now.

The delusion Sim, is that you somehow feel that your opinion will potentially make me "feel any better".

Those of us who are currently enjoying Grapes, however low hanging and smallish we may find them to be, certainly understand how the starving can come to your conclusions.

And you have our sympathies, regardless of the fact that you're starving due to your own ignorance.

If it makes you feel any better, I won't ask the question a third time.

[82_28]

If it makes you feel any better, the belief in American democracy was less delusional then than it is now.

The delusion Sim, is that you somehow feel that your opinion will potentially make me "feel any better".

Those of us who are currently enjoying Grapes, however low hanging and smallish we may find them to be, certainly understand how the starving can come to your conclusions.

And you have our sympathies, regardless of the fact that you're starving due to your own ignorance.

If it makes you feel any better, I won't ask the question a third time.

No, this has nothing to do with how any of us personally feel, but what kind of a world we want to live in. Simple as that. You are not essentially "wrong". You are making assumptions of good faith while we are powerless to stop the murder of innocent humans done in our supposed name. Yay, hurray. But that's the key homie. Do you not feel the innocent souls leaving Earth and coming back to encircle us, dawg? Nobody in this motherfucking dump, do I think is starving and if they are send us a line. We're carving shit out. I don't know where the fuck it goes from here. But your shit don't float.

Nothing is going to make you feel any better. The .gov has jumped the shark. Get the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, give us our money back, quit with the stupid alien shows and get down to business. Business as it is has no plan for us. You Obamanauts understand this right?

[freemason9]

If it makes you feel any better, the belief in American democracy was less delusional then than it is now.

The delusion Sim, is that you somehow feel that your opinion will potentially make me "feel any better".

Those of us who are currently enjoying Grapes, however low hanging and smallish we may find them to be, certainly understand how the starving can come to your conclusions.

And you have our sympathies, regardless of the fact that you're starving due to your own ignorance.

If it makes you feel any better, I won't ask the question a third time.

a million kudos to you, dear sir. a tip of that hat to anyone willing to take on the righteous angry mob.

[Cosmic Cowbell]

No, this has nothing to do with how any of us personally feel, but what kind of a world we want to live in. Simple as that. You are not essentially "wrong". You are making assumptions of good faith while we are powerless to stop the murder of innocent humans done in our supposed name.

Yay, hurray. But that's the key homie. Do you not feel the innocent souls leaving Earth and coming back to encircle us, dawg? Nobody in this motherfucking dump, do I think is starving and if they are send us a line. We're carving shit out. I don't know where the fuck it goes from here. But your shit don't float.

Nothing is going to make you feel any better. The .gov has jumped the shark. Get the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, give us our money back, quit with the stupid alien shows and get down to business.

So let us undertake a mental exercise and assume we withdraw from both Afghanistan/Pakistan and Iraq tomorrow. What of these countries the day after. What of Iran's influence on Iraq/Syria/Lebanon and in turn, Israel. What of Afghanistan's influence on Pakistan and in turn India. What of the pogroms unleashed on those who are viewed as unsympathetic towards extremist Islamic worldviews in these countries. What of the cost of oil if this region becomes inflamed with theological conflict, both wrt to America and to countries/economies that are not even remotely involved in the ME. Where does China and Russia fit in with all of this? Say we consider worst case scenarios, just for grins. I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of all here as to what the potentially millions of innocent souls leaving the Earth might say to us (you), depending upon where you stand wrt to these issues?

Maybe none of this is worth consideration?

BTW- I feel better already. Anytime I can reduce the opposition in this thread to muttering half/ass ideological vagaries (democracy is a myth you know) and pseudo "your a fascist" polemics (Nordic/82_28), I feel I've done a good days work.

Your welcome.