The Wikileaks Question

[compared2what?]

For those who need it repeated S-L-O-W-L-Y, my point is that they're using the same isolate-to-disorient technique on him that he revealed as SOP for thirty days for new detainees at Gitmo.

Which even a fucking judge presiding over a military tribunal at Gitmo ruled was torture. If done for long enough.

As I said, it's not the same. But it's too close for my comfort.

Carry on, non-emo kids.

[Ben D]

Does anyone else...

Fuck. Does anyone else read that Julian Assange....

Sorry. I'll be right back.

That's ok, perhaps the site admin may have a position? If RI members are actually being hacked by other RI members, then I would think that it would be an issue that deserves urgent consideration as to an appropriate response.

[Elvis]

Has anyone received an unsolicited pizza?

Even if pizzas started showing up, we couldn't know whether they came from white hats or black hats. On the other hand it would tell us something.

btw I like anchovies.

[Ben D]

With due respect C2W, I hope you don't find this condescending, but you obviously are emotionally upset with the Assange/Wikileaks question, but reality unfolds for mortals one day at a time and sometimes it is wise to realize that truth can't be possessed by any mortal, and just allow things to flow naturally.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971)

[compared2what?]

With due respect C2W, I hope you don't find this condescending,

Certainly not. I meant it when I told you to have fun. And I only find condescension from others worth noticing when those others are superior to me. WRT the power they can exercise over me, realistically speaking, I mean.

but you obviously are emotionally upset with the Assange/Wikileaks question, but reality unfolds for mortals one day at a time and sometimes it is wise to realize that truth can't be possessed by any mortal, and just allow things to flow naturally.

I'm not emotionally upset. I have emotions.

Per the sensory-perception capacities of most human beings -- all of whom are, to the best of my knowledge, mortal -- conscious experience unfolds in real time, or seems to do. If you'll permit me to correct you. Because I don't know about reality, and neither do you.

In any event, I aim for a greater degree of understanding, not truth. And insofar as that goal has any relationship to the having of emotions or the perceived unfolding of experience in real time, it's a positive one. Comes naturally, too.

I don't see the conflict, myself. Is what I guess I'm saying.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971)

Amen.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Has anyone received an unsolicited pizza?

A guy turned up at my door earlier with a box, a pizza box, but I was unsure of his motivation, so I pre-emptively shot him in the face six times. He put his corpse into my extra bed. That would be a good headline.

Even if pizzas started showing up, we couldn't know whether they came from white hats or black hats. On the other hand it would tell us something.

[btw I like anchovies.[/quote]

[The Hacktivist]

Does anyone else...

Fuck. Does anyone else read that Julian Assange....

Sorry. I'll be right back.

That's ok, perhaps the site admin may have a position? If RI members are actually being hacked by other RI members, then I would think that it would be an issue that deserves urgent consideration as to an appropriate response.

Nobody has been hacked, settle down, tiger.


Tough to prove anyway, as far as "urgent consideration as to an appropriate response," goes.

A hack is a full course meal and gourmet at that, different than just a taste, or hors d'œuvre.


People dont believe anything, show me a sign, show me a sign, they beg, then when you do they want to run you off, imprison you, or even worse, kill you.


Off with his head they cry, he isnt like the rest of us!

[barracuda]

That's ok, perhaps the site admin may have a position? If RI members are actually being hacked by other RI members, then I would think that it would be an issue that deserves urgent consideration as to an appropriate response.

[justdrew]

But its not magic or mystery, just hard work and learning how things operate at the protocol level.

As one may say, its the scripts, stupid.

or the stupid scripts... maybe some should use their protocol insight to make loic do some damn ip obfuscation huh?



as for the forum security, please feel free to PM me any insights, though I suspect you're just talking about where the domain is registered.

[Jeff]

My official position? I suppose that would be prostrate, whimpering Don't hack me, bro!.

FWIW, Hactivist assures me he's here just to chat and not to cause trouble. So, chat on.

[slimmouse]

received this link via email to a documentary on the wikiboys, which appears scheduled for major release early next year.

57 minutes of more fuel for the mind. One thing it made me realise is the extent of the exposures already made by the organisation prior to the latest part of the saga. Meanwhile, the cringeworthy hypocrisy of some of the commentary from the US "establishment" is truly beyond contempt ;

http://svtplay.se/v/2264028/wikirebels_ ... 1%2Cf%2C-1

[justdrew]

Does anyone else cringe to his or her very soul to know that in both cases it's happening to a person who's as innocent as you and I are of any criminal act in the eyes of the law under which we ostensibly live?

Does anyone else read both of those with the knowledge that it might yet happen to you?

Does anyone else here realize that from every perspective that means a goddamn thing, it might as well be happening to you?

Does anyone else feel a little less like playing their little games when they read that shit for even one fucking moment?

And it's OBVIOUSLY not a one-to-one comparison. I'm not saying that it is and I don't see why it has to be. It's way, way past anything that anyone should tolerate when it's at the mildest end of the continuum, it's not like there's any gray area there.

He is a person, a person, same as you are. And so are the hundreds who have it worse at Camp Delta and elsewhere.

* * * * * *

Fun's fun and all that, but please try not to lose sight of that and not to block someone else's view of it, okay?

Thanks.

yes, it's very alarming and Mannings treatment too. Julian means Son of Jove, and I do hope the empire isn't planning another sacrifice. wikileaks in my opinion is the real deal, but the response to wikileks will surely take on the form of psiops/public-relations, they may already be using their dark arts with that damn shooter in florida.

and welcome back c2w, good to see your posts again

[crikkett]

(I was wrong)

[Plutonia]

Ah yes, here it is.. *snip*

This is a portion of an exchange I copypasta'd from the old Enturbulation/Anonymous war on Scientology board:

From the Internet's Old Guard

http://forums.enturbulation.org/viewtop ... 418#p67418

tl;dr - whatever. skip to reading about how to not piss off happy fun ball.

Allow me to preface this post by saying I've created a new nick just for this. I've been posting on here plenty since this forum began, but in this one instance I don't care to be associated with my previous posts. I just want to "put this out there" as an anonymous Anonymous poster, as it were.

A little background: I've been doing this stuff (meaning working with computers and communicating with them) since 1977. In those days, "booting" a computer meant toggling a bunch of switches on a panel to get a computer to load data into an address. There were no hard drives. There were no floppy drives. 1Gb of memory seemed like an impossibly luxurious amount of space to work with.

We spent years staying in contact with each other through mimeographed publications like YIPL (Youth International Party Line) and it's follow-on publication (sent via snail-mail) T.A.P. We hacked systems like phone switches. Ran the first BBS systems on S-100 bus C/PM machines. Friends of ours like Tom Jennings developed networking protocols that pre-dated IP, like FidoNet. Most of us old-timers (google: cap'n crunch) watched publications like 2600 come into existence. These were the high-tech, underground hacking venues.

I, like most of my friends, continued on in fields associated with technology and communications. We were all there creating ARPANET (the predecessor of today's Internet)... working within the frameworks of the IEEE and other orgs to create what everyone today enjoys as the Internet.
We ran the first USENET servers. We collaboratively developed SMTP and e-mail. We designed, built and maintained the various IRC nets and servers.
AND we fought a crapload of wars as these technologies evolved. If you've ever had the privilege/hassle of running an early IRC server, you know what I'm talking about. If you've ever fought a USENET battle, you know what I'm talking about.

Almost everyone I know from the "early" pre-Internet days stuck it out. We've followed and worked with the technology the entire length of its development. I went from being a 14 year-old kid in the '70s who found computers to be interesting all the way to running NOC's for multinational carriers... and managing security for a company with 50,000+ on the payroll. Most of my friends from the early days have followed similar paths.
That said -- I'm genuinely NOT trying to toot our own horns here. What I'm trying to say is that the actions of Anonymous have GENUINELY captured the interest of a LOT of very highly placed people. We old-timers have fought a lot of battles. Most of them have been for stupid and personal or trivial reasons over the development of "internet" communications.

We've always followed the development of the Internet. By far, the vast majority us geezers have wound up in positions that require us to try to balance freedom of communication against defending that same freedom from hackers/activists that try to bully the other side into submission. To date, as hilarious as it's been (and trust me, us geezers really *do* get chuckles from most of the *chan stuff going on)... the bulk of *chan activity hasn't been very impressive. Yeah -- it's funny. Outside of the public view, we all laugh our asses off... and then do our best to try to level the playing field.

What Anonymous (and EVERYONE who has joined in the fight against Scientology) has done lately... well, that's a HUGELY different thing. You all aren't the only people who have had a beef with Scientology over the years. Us old-guard folks have taken their abuse for YEARS. We've endured endless C&D notices from their asshat lawyers. We (as network managers) have had to endure DAILY calls from their attorneys threatening all kinds of stupid shit in their attempts to moderate A.R.S. posts and manipulate search results.

I've been following the Chanology/Anonymous fight since day one, and discussing it with other seriously long-term-netfags. We're used to these fights. Shit, we've been doing this crap for 20+ years. We run the NOC's at major ISP's. We manage the networks. We're in charge of the security. We're almost all, "hackers" ourselves. We were weened on this shit from day one.

Guess what? WE ARE FUCKING HUGELY BEHIND YOU. Every single peer I've talked to has said the same thing: WHY HAS IT TAKEN SO LONG FOR THIS FIGHT TO BEGIN? I only wish I could list the number of top-level vice-presidents, directors and senior managers I'm friends with at ISP's (who have had to deal with Scientology's persistent BS demands) that are THRILLED TO THEIR TITS that this fight has finally gelled.

Don't let your guard down. Remain COMPLETELY anonymous. That is your biggest strength. That, and know that there are some people who have been in this shit for DECADES that are watching you, working WITH you, and have JOINED you behind the lines to protect you. WE are watching THEM do stupid shit, and are documenting it as best we can.

In the last week, I've talked to a half-dozen 20+ year vets who are still in the biz, and trust me... WE have your back, even if we can't say so publicly. We've been subjected to their shit for over a decade... and we're more than happy to return the favor. Believe me when I say there are a LOT of highly-placed netfags watching things as they develop. I'm going to interview a couple of folks on our side who have had to deal with CoS demands (every fucking day)... and publish them on here. It's every bit as ugly as you might imagine. We get calls and letters day in and day out and we're all sick and tired of having our time wasted by the "church" too.

Subsequently the "Old Guard" began feeding information to Anons which eventually prompted these responses- and more which are unnecessary to make my point:

I've seen something "creeping" over to us from the old guard, and it bothers me.

In the older critical movement, there's a kind of status or reputation effct that comes with knowing impressive secret news. Some of it is utterly harmless, just "I found out something cool!!!".

Other parts are "you can trust ME, because I've delivered the dirt before". And that's fine for them. But a reputation-based system of trust is not cool for us. It can lead to exagerrating your own news in order to "get more status", and shit like that. It encourages the "we're playing spy games" mindset, which is toxic shit, to us, because that means creating all these bullshit and stupid hierarchies (even if they're informal)...\

All of which impedes the raw power of reaching agreements by hammering them out as equals, all ideas included equally.

Now, maybe I'm talking some stupid shit. Or maybe I'm an asshole. Or maybe even both. But that's how I see it.

What do you think?

Yeah, I was feeling that a bit too. Let's add some *chan standards in here:

Pics or GTFO

Yeah, secret news, hidden source, people afraid for their life. I get that. However, we're getting stirred up based on the word of a few people, however good that might be. I mean, how can we be sure there wasn't an OSA order, "Start spreading shit to the old critics, they're on an opium high with these Anon kids and they'll swallow it right up."

So, could you hold back on the fapping until you get some kind of source we can see that isn't you?

http://forums.enturbulation.org/viewtop ... 951#p72951

Of course you'll have to take my word for it (cause I didn't think to take screenshots. Doh!)

So now we are in a similar situation here with Hack, a newcomer with supposedly special information (haven't seen that yet) and super omniscience and hacking skills.

So my question is to you Hack, isn't coming here, outing yourself and claiming a privileged position counter to very foundations of the Anonymous enterprise? And aren't you perhaps doing more harm that good by doing so?

*Bowing now to your elevated, self-attributed authority*

[Wombaticus Rex]

Plutonia, can we just skip this part? There's no firmament here. We don't need to accept new members at their word, nor do we benefit from interrogating them. Just let 'em post.