Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

[km artlu]

Interesting sculpture in the background of the Fortescue clip.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Interesting sculpture in the background of the Fortescue clip.

Indeed.... Indeed!

Hadn't noticed that myself.

Ahab, I don't know if you saw up-thread but I have been trying to find any traces of Savile's Scottish network.

Okay, first things first Searcher, I like your "romantic nationalism" theory to explain Savile's wrongdoings, or at least the extent of them, and the extent to which they were covered up and studiously ignored by the authoritites.

A very extreme case of, "My country, right or utterly and inexcusably wrong."

It makes a certain kind of sense. The people who sanctioned the murder of Pat Finucane (and possibly David Kelly, among others) must've felt that way too, to some extent. It's a real psychological phenomenon. A book I have here, called "State Crime", explores this reality - how the vast majority of governtment-sanctioned killers and torturers, from Chile to Cambodia to Carrickfergus, have felt themselves to be utterly justified and righteous in their actions, however reprehensible.

I really like a description I once heard of the British intelligence services (applicable to all Western security forces). They are "the extremists of the centre."

While bumbling neo-Nazis are prepared to commit violence in the cause of extreme ideological and racial purity, trying to push things to the right, and some leftists will kill for their vision of utopia, trying to push things to the left, the servants of the state will apparently sometimes commit equal atrocitities simply to preserve the status quo.

Just to preserve business as usual.

It reminds of the bit towards the end of 1984, where Winston Smith thinks he is joining a revolutionary group, and pledges himself to commit any evil in the furtherance of the cause. Deliberately spreading venereal diseases, rape, murder, bombing, mutilation with acid... he is prepared to do all these things to overthrow Big Brother. But there are people out there today who are prepared to commit such acts simply to keep things as they are.

The extremists of the centre are in many ways the weirdest and most troubling gang in town.

Anyhoo, earlier in the thread I posted up some stuff about Savile's Scottish links that might interest you, particularly his fondness for hanging out at Carstairs (the Scottish version of Broadmoor), and his meetings with the Bay City Rollers, particularly their sex-offender manager Tam Paton - who also hung out in London with Jonathon King.

Here's the post:

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... p?p=483662

It's the one with the Max Clifford video embedded in it.

And if anyone is feeling a bit dispirited over the continuing cover-ups and the lack of actual justice seen so far, can I just remind everybody that Max Clifford is currently in the fucking jail!

Who would've believed that two years ago? A former major player on the side of evil has been officially removed from the game. It was interesting how his trial actually confirmed that he was a genuine sociopath, after decades of everyone just thinking he might be.

There have been at least eleven convictions in the North Wales care homes cases too, but sadly they happened in Wales, so no one really noticed.

Going back to the Scotland thing, and Tam Paton, this was on the cover of the (Scottish) Daily Express today:

Why was Scottish Savile ignored?

THE Scottish Government ignored calls from one of its own advisers to launch an investigation into a high-profile paedophile ring operating in Edinburgh.

It was a Labour government who ignored the original calls, before anyone gets excited. The Express don't actually mention that fact in the article though, because they're the Express.

It all tracks back to Operation Planet and the "Magic Circle" allegations of the mid-90s, which appeared to culminate in whatever the hell really happened at Dunbane.

Hope that helps a bit.

BTW, the Savile-looking serial killer was Bible John, not Bible Jack.

A lot of people now think that these were early "starter" crimes committed by Peter Tobin, a now-notorious serial killer who seemed to have a habit of hanging around religious establishments and churches (his final victim's body was concealed beneath the floor of a church where he had ingratiated himself as a handyman).

Was Savile ever known for quoting Biblical passages as chat-up lines?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Tobin

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Interesting sculpture in the background of the Fortescue clip.

Rolf Harris did a painting of himself as a kangaroo, which also coincidentally fit the shape of the UK - his feet in this picture were Cornwall, his head was the Scottish Highlands with a tartan bunnet on top.

Anyone remember the one I mean?

It's in the background of the clip where him and Savile are talking, behind Savile's chair, while Rolf is playing the obsequious courtier in reply to Jimmy's lifelong impression of Rodrigo Borgia.

That might be of interest to you too Searcher.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Searcher, I nearly forgot. Regarding Dubya's Scottish holidays, isn't there a story that he somehow met the (not-yet) Lord George robertson during that time? It was (I think) either Byrne or Seamus who originally posted about this.

Something to do with a family called Gemmell (or similar)?

Or have I hallucinated that?

Anyway, on a very tangentially-related note, fast forward to 2:30 in this Al Jazeera documentary about oil. It'll get yer synapses firing on all cylinders.



You don't have to watch it all. The place they met is the point.

Did I ever mention that Sir Peter Morrison was the Minister of State for Energy from 1987?

In effect, that made him the UK's Oil Minister, with oversight over the North Sea.

Control, control.

[Twyla LaSarc]

[quote="AhabsOtherLeg » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:34 am"

When asked if he has been following the Myra Hindley story he replies enigmatically: "I am the Myra Hindley story."

Anybody who wants to catch up on the Myra Hindley story could do worse than watching this excellently made UK TV movie (the accents might be troublesome for furners though). It's all based on very thorough research, and they captured the times and the atmosphere brilliantly (so far as I can tell). It's quite long, and isn't about high-level political paedos, but the fact that Savile would say openly that he embodied the Myra Hindley story is a pretty big... thing.

[/quote]

Thank you, just watched that. Really well-done!

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Glad you enjoyed it Twyla. Enjoyed is the wrong word. Like myself, you will have learned something from it. I thought I already knew about as much as there was to know about the Moors Murders, and the perpetrators, but sometimes a drama does a better job than a documentary or a book. Rarely, but sometimes.

Felt really sorry for Maureen Hindley, all things considered. Ye cannae choose yer family.

[semper occultus]

If anybody's unsure who the minister referred to in the above article is, it's Sir Peter Morrison.

Not sure why they don't just name him - he's dead anyway, and the details of his brushes with the law make his identity pretty obvious to anybody who's been following the story for a while.

Just sayin', since the references to him as a "rising star" in the 1980s have given some folk on other forums the impression that the article was referring to the current Foreign Secretary.

ah ....my thoughts have turned on occassion to the incredible disappearing act done by "rising star" John Moore since all this blew up..may well be barking up the wrong nonce-tree however...

[RocketMan]

Thanks for pointing this one out. Disturbing it is. It appears Harris kissed Savile's ring when they met. Hmmm.

Savile does conduct himself like some sort of potentate here.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

ah ....my thoughts have turned on occassion to the incredible disappearing act done by "rising star" John Moore since all this blew up..may well be barking up the wrong nonce-tree however...

That's a good find, I reckon.

[coffin_dodger]

Butler-Sloss steps down from child abuse inquiry
BBC News 14 July 2014

Retired judge Baroness Butler-Sloss has stepped down as head of a probe into child sex abuse saying she was "not the right person" for the job.

Downing Street said "it was entirely her decision" and a new chair would be appointed within days.

Lady Butler-Sloss has been under pressure to quit from MPs and victims concerned about her family links.

Her late brother, Sir Michael Havers, was attorney general in the 1980s.

cont - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28295282

(love the fact it's classed as a business news story) -

[brekin]

Was thinking about the post about Johnny Rotten joking about Savile's sordid reputation on Top of the Pops i believe. Something struck me about Rotten's eyes and Savile's. Both have that forty yard stare. Lydon's seems like it is from a childhood illness:

The meningitis was also responsible for giving him what he would later describe as the "Lydon stare", and for him, this experience was "the first step that put me on the road to Rotten".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lydon

Savile's seems to affected as part of his persona though because it doesn't seem to be his default. (Obviously Rotten's is also somewhat affected to a degree.) But it is interesting how both used this stare as part of their public persona. Some random images of both with the stare, last two "relaxed eye pose".






Here are the relaxed eye poses. Interestingly it took me much longer to find relaxed eye poses photos of Savile then Rotten, when I thought it would be the other way around. My guess is Savile was much more photo conscious of when a picture was being taken, which were probably for posed p.r. purposes anyways, because in the interviews I've seen of him later in life he seems pretty laid back almost humdrum.




The weird thing about these similar stares is that it is hard to initially place the emotion they represent or are used to convey, for me at least:


In Jimmy's and Johny's pics above and the ones I've seen on google when they have the stare their foreheads are smooth, not crinkled while their eyes are wide opened showing the whites around the pupils. Rotten has many more photos of the stare with a slight furrowed brow, sneer or pout which brings in more anger to the stare at times which would be appropriate to his punk stance. If you look at the chart above all the wide open eyes have crinkled foreheads as well as usually open mouths. If anything, this other non angry stare seems to be a combination of dissimilar, even conflicting emotions. My guess is happiness with surprise and fear. Savile's photos usually have him smiling or with a cigar in his mouth so he seems to be much more happy whereas Rotten's seems less happy and more on the surprised side. Savile's, I think is more the classical creeper visage of this is horrifying and traumatic but I like it. Kind of interesting that this stare is shared between two seemingly different cultural personas. I wonder how much, if at all, Saville's stare helped create and cement his persona that made him so untouchable for so long. It is hard not to look at most of his photos and not seeing someone who doesn't possibly revel in dark things. With Rotten his persona seemed pretty straight forward with I'm damaged and angry and here to break down Western Civilization a bit and other symbols of authority and revel in that. With Savile, he seems like the court jester made king and his stare looks like he is watching people being burned at the stake and enjoying it.

It looks like Eminem has adopted the stare probably inadvertently through bad plastic surgery.

[Searcher08]

John Lydon is a stinging social critic of UK class, politics and media, and as a person is deeply affected by all the crap. For me , his resting eyes picture above clearly shows this - Saviles to me indicates the consummate spider at the centre of multiple intricate webs, who has learned to be a fly-provider and mentor to other spiders...

From Wiki on John Lydon
Political and social criticism

Ever since his rise to public attention, Lydon has remained a critic of much in British politics and society. Coming from a working-class background, he has remained heavily opposed to the class system, describing how private schools "tend to turn out little snobs. They're taught a sense of superiority, which is the kiss of death… They're absolutely screwed up for life."[64] He is critical of the upper classes, stating that they "parasite off the population as their friends help them along", but he equally criticises the working classes, claiming that "We're lazy, good-for-nothing bastards, absolute cop-outs [who] never accept responsibility for our own lives and that's why we'll always be downtrodden."[65] He opposes all forms of segregation in schools, not only through the private and state school division, but also with single-sex schools; "It doesn't make sense. It's a much better environment with girls in the class. You learn a lot more, as diversity makes things more interesting."[66]

He criticised the paramilitary organisations involved in the Northern Ireland conflict, remarking that both the Irish Republican Army and the Ulster Defence Association were "like two mafia gangs punching each other out… They both run their extortion rackets and plague people to no end." He remarked that "The Northern Ireland problem is a terrible thing, and it's only the ignorance of the people living outside of it that keeps it going", but that ultimately the British government's exploitative attitude to the problem was in his opinion the main cause.[67]

Appearing on the BBC's Question Time on 5 July 2012, Lydon questioned the notion of a parliamentary inquiry into the banking industry, saying "How on earth is Parliament going to discuss this really when both sides, left and right, are connected to this? This doesn't just go back to Brown, this is part of the ongoing problem. Mr Diamond comes from Wall Street...hello. Both parties love this idea. They are fiddling with rates. They are affecting the world and everything we used to count on as being dependable and accurate is being discussed by these argumentative chaps. If I nick a motor I'm going to be up before the judge, the rozzers. Hello, same thing."[68]

In a 1978 BBC Radio 1 interview, Lydon alluded to the sordid conduct by Jimmy Savile, as well as the suppression of negative information about Savile by mainstream social forces many decades in advance of it becoming a public scandal. Lydon stated: "I'd like to kill Jimmy Savile; I think he's a hypocrite. I bet he's into all kinds of seediness that we all know about, but are not allowed to talk about. I know some rumours." He added: "I bet none of this will be allowed out."[69]

[brekin]

Searcher08 wrote:

John Lydon is a stinging social critic of UK class, politics and media, and as a person is deeply affected by all the crap. For me , his resting eyes picture above clearly shows this - Saviles to me indicates the consummate spider at the centre of multiple intricate webs, who has learned to be a fly-provider and mentor to other spiders...

Yeah, I can see that. Another strange thing related to eyes and Savile. We know he made jewelery out of dead eyes.

The mass of NHS papers revealed vile Savile boasted about having sex with corpses in a mortuary, posed with bodies and wheeled them around at night, stole glass eyes from the dead and made them into rings and abused teenage patients in their beds as they recovered from surgery.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/si ... z37Tkxj8zx



It is also interesting that is how his eyes were described (cold and dead) by some victims:

The Head Porter said, I’ll leave you to it, shut the door, and then he changed. His demeanour changed… he wasn’t the Jimmy Savile that you saw on the telly, that you know, you saw at charity events. He was, he just wasn’t that sort of man anymore… He changed within, I would have said, seconds. His eyes were cold and dead, and he moved his hand, you know, he started that then. I mean, literally, as soon
as the door had shut.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/si ... ll-3769301

Alarming how if the eyes are the windows of the soul what they reveal about Savile. I'm not suggesting an occult or other than human connection here but it definitely appears that the lack of humanity in Savile's eyes betrays something deeper, no doubt elementally pathological, operating. It is like a shark who masquerades as a sea lion.

...

[MayDay]

I feel that this is the creepiest, and perhaps the most important RI thread to date. As mIsinformed and cheesy as i found the "was jimmy a wizard" YouTube video to be, I still think it's worth a watch. If the question is "was Savile some sort of high wizard to the (theoretical) elite dark lodge occult network operating at the highest levels of uk/ European society? ", I think the answer is a blatant yes. He was some kind of dark Lord to a certain faction of the western elite, near as I can tell. I fear that further investigation into this subject could bring negative repercussions to many of us. I don't mean to be an alarmist, but this is big. Perhaps the biggest thing we've ever taken on at RI. Take care!

[brekin]

I feel that this is the creepiest, and perhaps the most important RI thread to date. As mIsinformed and cheesy as i found the "was jimmy a wizard" YouTube video to be, I still think it's worth a watch. If the question is "was Savile some sort of high wizard to the (theoretical) elite dark lodge occult network operating at the highest levels of uk/ European society? ", I think the answer is a blatant yes. He was some kind of dark Lord to a certain faction of the western elite, near as I can tell. I fear that further investigation into this subject could bring negative repercussions to many of us. I don't mean to be an alarmist, but this is big. Perhaps the biggest thing we've ever taken on at RI. Take care!

Indeed. I think Jimmy was a wizard. He convinced a whole country he was a cherubic angel bringing good times and fortune to the young, ill and disadvantaged whereas he actually was a malevolent sorcerer who took over whole institutions with his charisma and tormented and damaged scores he came into contact with. It doesn't really matter to me whether he officially belonged to a elite dark lodge and officiated over eyes wide shut costume parties of the nobles. Really it would be even scarier if he didn't and accomplished what he did on his very own will to power and influence over others and only limited assistance by a few of the powers that be. I think consciously or not, with deep network assists or not, he definitely tapped into something dark that helped him spread his influence. One facet I think is shown through his eyes. I think there is a scientific explanation for the phenomenon of his influence and dominance over a culture and lack of accountability. His persona, his eyes, being televised to millions I don't think played a small part. They use to call it the evil eye:

The evil eye is a malevolent look that many cultures believe able to cause injury or misfortune for the person at whom it is directed for reasons of envy or dislike. Talismans created to protect against the evil eye are also frequently called "evil eyes".[1][2] The term also refers to the power attributed to certain persons of inflicting injury or bad luck by such an envious or ill-wishing look. The evil eye is usually given to others who remain unaware.[3]

The "evil eye" is also known in Arabic as ʿayn al-ḥasūd (عين الحسود‎), in Hebrew as ʿáyin hā-ráʿ (עַיִן הָרַע‎), in Kurdish çaw e zar (eye of evil/sickness), in Persian as chashm zakhm (چشم زخم eye-caused injury) or chashm e bad (bad eye), in Turkish as Nazar (nazar is from Arabic نَظَر Nadhar, which means eye vision or eyesight), similarly in Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi the word Nazar or Boori Nazar (bad eye/look) is used, in Amharic buda, in Afghan Pashto cheshim mora, and also "Nazar", in Greek as to máti (το μάτι), in Spanish as mal de ojo,[4] in Italian as malocchio, in Portuguese mau-olhado ("act of giving an evil/sick look"), in Swedish as "ge onda ögat" (to give an evil look), and in Hawaiian it is known as "stink eye"[5] or maka pilau meaning "rotten eyes".[6]
The idea expressed by the term causes many different cultures to pursue protective measures against it. The concept and its significance vary widely among different cultures, primarily the Middle East. The idea appears several times in translations of the Old Testament.[7] It was a widely extended belief among many Mediterranean and Asian tribes and cultures. Charms and decorations featuring the eye are a common sight across Turkey, Iran, and Afghanistan and have become a popular choice of souvenir with tourists.

History

Belief in the evil eye dates back to Classical antiquity. It is referenced by Hesiod, Callimachus, Plato, Diodorus Siculus, Theocritus, Plutarch, Heliodorus, Pliny the Elder, and Aulus Gellius. Peter Walcot's Envy and the Greeks (1978) listed more than one hundred works by these and other authors mentioning the evil eye.
Classical authors attempted to offer explanations for the evil eye. Plutarch's scientific explanation stated that the eyes were the chief, if not sole, source of the deadly rays that were supposed to spring up like poisoned darts from the inner recesses of a person possessing the evil eye (Quaest. Conv. 5.7.2–3=Mor.80F-81f). Plutarch treated the phenomenon of the evil eye as something seemingly inexplicable that is a source of wonder and cause of incredulity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_eye

I'm not superstitious, but there is no harm I think it placing this evil eye protective talisman in this thread.

Protective talismans and cures

Attempts to ward off the curse of the evil eye has resulted in a number of talismans in many cultures. As a class, they are called "apotropaic" (Greek for "prophylactic" or "protective", literally: "turns away") talismans, meaning that they turn away or turn back harm.
Disks or balls, consisting of concentric blue and white circles (usually, from inside to outside, dark blue, light blue, white, dark blue) representing an evil eye are common apotropaic talismans in the Middle East, found on the prows of Mediterranean boats and elsewhere; in some forms of the folklore, the staring eyes are supposed to bend the malicious gaze back to the sorcerer.

Known as nazar (Turkish: nazar boncuğu or nazarlık), this talisman is most frequently seen in Turkey, found in or on houses and vehicles or worn as beads.
A blue or green eye can also be found on some forms of the hamsa hand, an apotropaic hand-shaped talisman against the evil eye found in the Middle East. The word hamsa, also spelled khamsa and hamesh, means "five" referring to the fingers of the hand. In Jewish culture, the hamsa is called the Hand of Miriam; in some Muslim populated cultures, the Hand of Fatima. Though condemned as superstition by doctrinaire Muslims, it is almost exclusively among Muslims in the Near East and Mediterranean that the belief in envious looks containing destructive power or the talismanic power of a nazar to defend against them. To adherents of other faiths in the region, the nazar is an attractive decoration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_eye