What constitutes Misogyny?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby hava1 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:30 pm

sure, was posting my "Middle East take", so yes.

I meant that I can agree with your larger observation on PC, but I dont think it was relevant to MY specific comment on the "bitch in another thread" issue. I meant you are bringing in the habits in the "public at large" and I was refering to a club where some rules are a given, such as PC speech and so forth.
now outa here, my schnitzel is frying and burning..


JackRiddler wrote:
hava1 wrote:The "Jack Riddler" comment opens the lense to nudie bars in Alabama, not my intention to join that crowd.


Huh? Before you go can you explain this to me? Thanks.
hava1
 
Posts: 1141
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:07 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Canadian_watcher » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:23 pm

hava1 wrote:I havent read this thread, except here and there, so maybe this is redundant, but I saw that Jeff added a prohibition to discuss "feminism as NWO". Well, in my region, the Middle Ease that is, by and large, without calling it NWO, the theory is mainstream, even among middle classes, seemingly liberal groups. Its too bad those concepts cannot even be mentioned as in "lets dissect and refute" them. It kind of narrows it down to white christians, more or less.

Both Islam and Judaism, as a culture are resisting the premise of feminism in many ways, although accepting the general tenets of "improving the status of women". It sounds contradictory, but I guess that';s the best rough decription I can come up with for now.

The tendency to view feminism with suspicion is growing among ISraeli Jews with the trend to seek some form of "traditional religious identity" here.


What you're describing is, in my view, a common cultural response in times of stress: the creation of a bogeyman where one doesn't exist.

Feminism is just a label. There is no feminist organization. There is no heirarchy of feminists. There are no rules on how to become one, or remain one. No written agenda with bullet points and score cards. What 'feminism' is shorthand for is the myriad movements which - over the course of a long time and with no real coherent structure - gained women and other causes a lot of status & legal protection which before feminism (or the Women's Movement) didn't exist. The so-called negative results of the gains women have made are now pinned on to 'feminism' as if the whole of society didn't actually participate in making the changes. It's an easy mark.

To view 'feminism,' as one whole thing in itself, with suspicion is like viewing 'science' that way.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby hava1 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:51 pm

Not sure I can settle for "culture under stress" for more than a billion people...(moslems). Also I see some of that in Hindu culture , and so forth. Its hard to lump more than half the world as "culture under stress looking for boogey".

The offshoots I saw of interest in Israel at least, are those among liberal-secular Jews, women as well, who sometimes would refer to a "conspiracy theory" (of the NWO kind).

I would definitely say that CHristianity, being the only big and formal religion that ousted polygamy early on, is associated with the notion of female emancipation. THis sort of puts the whole issue in context of "war of civilizations", and defense mechanisms, survival instincts of other religious cultures.

Definitely what is common utterances here, in this region, would fall under misogyny of not unlawful hate speech and so forth. However, its important to note, that even among the most consrevative religious groups, the notion of "feminism", in the sense that women should not be beaten for instance, or that they should be educated, at least basically, is gaining ground by Osmosis and political pressures.

The main hurdles I see is that basically, the Jewish religion does not view women as having legal capacity at all (women are considered property), or spiritual agency.

Canadian_watcher wrote:
hava1 wrote:I havent read this thread, except here and there, so maybe this is redundant, but I saw that Jeff added a prohibition to discuss "feminism as NWO". Well, in my region, the Middle Ease that is, by and large, without calling it NWO, the theory is mainstream, even among middle classes, seemingly liberal groups. Its too bad those concepts cannot even be mentioned as in "lets dissect and refute" them. It kind of narrows it down to white christians, more or less.

Both Islam and Judaism, as a culture are resisting the premise of feminism in many ways, although accepting the general tenets of "improving the status of women". It sounds contradictory, but I guess that';s the best rough decription I can come up with for now.

The tendency to view feminism with suspicion is growing among ISraeli Jews with the trend to seek some form of "traditional religious identity" here.


What you're describing is, in my view, a common cultural response in times of stress: the creation of a bogeyman where one doesn't exist.

Feminism is just a label. There is no feminist organization. There is no heirarchy of feminists. There are no rules on how to become one, or remain one. No written agenda with bullet points and score cards. What 'feminism' is shorthand for is the myriad movements which - over the course of a long time and with no real coherent structure - gained women and other causes a lot of status & legal protection which before feminism (or the Women's Movement) didn't exist. The so-called negative results of the gains women have made are now pinned on to 'feminism' as if the whole of society didn't actually participate in making the changes. It's an easy mark.

To view 'feminism,' as one whole thing in itself, with suspicion is like viewing 'science' that way.
hava1
 
Posts: 1141
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:07 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby charlie meadows » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:22 pm

Is the Production Code Administration, a policy of strict motion picture censorship, enforced starting July 1, 1934, an example of misogynistic tendencies?

http://www.greencine.com/central/guide/precode

The "pre-Code era" refers to a roughly five-year period in film history, beginning with the widespread adoption of sound in 1929 and ending on July 1, 1934, with the inauguration of the Production Code Administration and a policy of rigid censorship. Before July 1, 1934, restrictions on movie content varied widely, depending on local laws, mores and public taste. As a result, "pre-Code films" tend to be racier, sexier, more adult, more cynical, more socially critical, more honest and more politically strident than the films produced by Hollywood on up through the early 1960s.

Indeed, the difference between pre-Codes and films made during the Code is so dramatic that, once one becomes familiar with pre-Codes, it becomes possible to tell, sometimes within five minutes, whether a 1934 film was released early or late in the year. Contrary to what was sometimes assumed by historians, the pre-Code era didn't fade. It was ended in full bloom and with the finality of an axe coming down.


Women in pre-Codes, for example, act recognizably like women - independent, shrewd and worldly - and not like the bubbleheads, girls next door, martyrs and rueful sluts you often find in American film through the early 1960s.


The pre-Code era was especially good for women. Though the 1940s is sometimes remembered as a golden age for actresses, it was in the early 30s that women dominated the box office, and their films weren't considered "woman's films" at the time. Rather, they were the movies that the general public flocked to see. They dealt with the issues surrounding the emergence of the newly sexualized, self-sufficient New Woman, who'd emerged in the 1920s. They explored sex, marriage, divorce, and the work place, mainly in a spirit of discovering and re-evaluating morality in light of a new day.


The glorification and the idealization of the loose woman, a consistent feature of pre-Code, can be vividly found in Garbo's A Woman of Affairs and The Mysterious Lady and in Von Sternberg's 1928 The Docks of New York, in which Betty Compson gets the full Sternberg treatment two years before Dietrich did.

Movies about prostitutes were a familiar feature of the first years of the pre-Code era. They were Hollywood's way of dealing with the real changes in sexual behavior happening with American women, under cover of presenting tales of exoticism.


It's ironic: Though the reformers considered pre-Codes immoral, Hollywood, in fact, never made so many films directly concerned with morality as in the pre-Code era. The difference was that the reformers didn't want morals to be examined, debated, discussed or discovered. They wanted them to be accepted blindly.


The pre-Code era came to an end soon after the Catholics formed the Legion of Decency in April of 1934, an organization of clergy that threatened to keep Catholics away from the movies. Joseph Breen, one of the architects of the Code, who was now ensconced as head of the SRC, presented himself to the studio heads as the one man who could mediate between them and the Legion. The studios gave in to his demands. The Production Code Administration was founded, under the agreement that no film could be released without a seal of approval from the PCA.
charlie meadows
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:31 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby wintler2 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:43 pm

charlie meadows wrote:Is the Production Code Administration, a policy of strict motion picture censorship, enforced starting July 1, 1934, an example of misogynistic tendencies?
..

I dunno, but thanks for raising it & educating me, i thought my love for movies like Golddiggers of 1933 was mere sentimentality.


brekin wrote:wintler wrote:

but theres no denying that PC has become an effective attack meme. It occurs to me that there are parrallels with Conspiracy Theorist - both are used to shut down the consideration of inconvenient truths, prevent challenges to the status quo.


I think that is very key. I've noticed many people use PC language to immediately assert their superiority (moral, intellectual, activist, etc) in a dialogue and
anyone who doesn't choose to speak their language is immediately less progessive, enlightened, compassionate etc.

Hiya brekin, just fyi, thats the opposite of what i meant. My experience is that ..
JR wrote:Calling someone PC is a shortcut for not having to deal with the substance of what they say. Just like "conspiracy theory."
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
User avatar
wintler2
 
Posts: 2884
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:43 am
Location: Inland SE Aus.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby brekin » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:45 pm

wintler wrote:

Quote:
but theres no denying that PC has become an effective attack meme. It occurs to me that there are parrallels with Conspiracy Theorist - both are used to shut down the consideration of inconvenient truths, prevent challenges to the status quo.

brekin wrote:
I think that is very key. I've noticed many people use PC language to immediately assert their superiority (moral, intellectual, activist, etc) in a dialogue and
anyone who doesn't choose to speak their language is immediately less progessive, enlightened, compassionate etc.


Hiya brekin, just fyi, thats the opposite of what i meant. My experience is that ..

JR wrote:
Calling someone PC is a shortcut for not having to deal with the substance of what they say. Just like "conspiracy theory."


Oops, sorry for misinterpreting. I still like what I mistakenly gleaned from what I mistook from your post though.
I agree dismissing PC can be a thoughtless and baseless as dismissing something as conspiracy theory sometimes.
But sometimes PC can be as crude, reactionary and pre-fabbed as the worst conspiracy theories.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
User avatar
brekin
 
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:21 pm
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Kate » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:24 am

If I may, I'd like to just report my own experiences (anecdotal) regarding the whole concept of PC/non-PC language usage.

First, I'll explain the simple rule I use for my own speech. I always try to use the most respectful terms when addressing anyone from any cultural or sub-cultural group, to the best of my abililty. This has often meant that I will ask the person in question what he/she prefers if there are choices I'm aware of.

For example, when I some spent time at the Powhatan Renape Nation in New Jersey during the 1980's I was told then that they preferred "Native American" as the term to describe themselves. In the late seventies, I had already heard the same from an activist heading a non-profit representing Mid-Atlantic Nations/Tribes.

During the nineties, having moved to a western state, the first neighborhood in which I briefly lived included numerous Navajo Nation members, as the town bordered directly on Navajo Nation land; later I spent time on land bordered by Apaches. Both by observation and direct question, I learned that these communities *for the most part* (but not entirely) preferred the term "Indians." A quick check of the New Jersey Powhatan Renape Nation today shows BOTH designations, "Native American" and "Indian" in use. Perhaps that's because they've been host since at least the eighties to annual multi-day meetings and open festivals with participation from Nations/Tribes from all over the Americas (North and South). Perhaps it's for another reason; I haven't been able to visit with them in many years.

I'm just using this as an example to show that I'm not the least bit interested whether one specific word or phrase has been designated as "PC" by some unspecified and unknown-to-me hypothetical group or set of individuals. Whenever I'm aware that different phrases, terminologies mean different things to different people, I merely make it a point to ask about it in an open and respectful manner. Not once has anyone responded to a sincere, respectful inquiry with any sort of hostility whatsoever.

Moreover, in spite of having been involved with numerous activist organizations ever since I was a 13-year old high school freshman --

[civil rights, civil liberties, anti-poverty, voter registration drives, American Friends Service Committee, United Farm Workers Solidarity groups, anti-war (beginning with Vietnam onward through all the bloody decades), anti-imperialist (for example, protesting Reagan's bloody "policies" in Central America), church sanctuary programs for undocumented political refugees and other campaigns for humane immigration policies, the National Organization for Women and other "feminist" organizations, LGBT rights and universal human rights campaigns, etc. etc. etc.]

-- and I gave this LONG LIST, not to bore anyone or establish any kind of "cred" for myself, but to show evidence of the numerous different "communities" and "identities" with whom I've interacted over quite a few decades now,in order to make this ultimate point:

NOT ONCE, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME has ANYONE, ANYWHERE, ordered me to use any kind of language, "PC" or not, I've NEVER encountered this even ONE SINGLE TIME. Nor has the actual TOPIC of being so-called "POLITICALLY CORRECT" ever, ever come up. I've had conversations about how people think of themselves and their own communities, and observed carefully how they speak of themselves and their own understanding of themselves, so that I could always respect each one's dignity.

There has only ever been one type of instance when the very TOPIC of "PC" has come up in all these decades, and that has always been brought up by ANOTHER person, and it was always in the scenario (in my own experience) that the OTHER person bringing up the topic of "PC" expressed denigration and disrespect for the "identity" involved (Latino, gay, African American, Native, Asian American, Muslim, etc. etc.), and usually I was told, essentially, that as a "white/hetero/or Christian woman" I was "kissing the butt" of other groups who constituted the "PC Police," and my forthright expression of wanting to respect all cultures and sub-cultures (and nothing more or less than that) was almost always met with great HOSTILITY.

So, as I said, this is mere anecdotal evidence from my own day-to-day life, and it's been thoroughly consistent in personal interactions with ALL sorts of people. I have never once met up with any "PC Police/Bullies" whether feminist or some other kind, and have only ever had the topic broached by 3rd party individuals who were resentful and angry about 'kow-towing" to the "other" identity.

For what that's worth. Your mileage may, of course, vary.
User avatar
Kate
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:29 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby norton ash » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:40 am

^^^ Well done, Kate.

I've never been 'policed' by anyone about using the wrong term. The whole PC Police concept is largely an invention of resentful reactionaries.

I've drawn a yellow card at RI for being insensitive... usually because I was being insensitive.
Zen horse
User avatar
norton ash
 
Posts: 4067
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Canada
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Kate » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:21 am

Norton --

I've drawn a yellow card at RI for being insensitive... usually because I was being insensitive.


While I'm not familiar with the highlighted phrase, it's not necessary for me to know what a yellow card is in order to see your beautiful honesty.

Please consider yourself receiving a warm virtual [PICK ONE OR MORE:] smile, handshake, hug from me for that honesty. It's one of those events in human interaction which make a difficult day suddenly seem better, and a good day shine even more. And thanks for the kind words, too.
User avatar
Kate
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:29 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby hava1 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:38 am

http://kasamaproject.org/2010/06/07/ene ... -the-left/

Enemies Within: Informants And Misogyny On The Left

Posted by onehundredflowers on June 7, 2010

This was originally posted on truthout.org.

"Despite all that we say to the contrary, the fact is that radical social movements and organizations in the United States have refused to seriously address gender violence as a threat to the survival of our struggles. We’ve treated misogyny, homophobia, and heterosexism as lesser evils—secondary issues—that will eventually take care of themselves or fade into the background once the “real” issues—racism, the police, class inequality, U.S. wars of aggression—are resolved. … Misogyny and homophobia are central to the reproduction of violence in radical activist communities. Scratch a misogynist and you’ll find a homophobe. Scratch a little deeper and you might find the makings of a future informant (or someone who just destabilizes movements like informants do).

The state has already understood a fact that the Left has struggled to accept: misogynists make great informants."

Why Misogynists Make Great Informants: How Gender Violence on the Left Enables State Violence in Radical Movements

by: Courtney Desiree Morris | make/shift

In January 2009, activists in Austin, Texas, learned that one of their own, a white activist named Brandon Darby, had infiltrated groups protesting the Republican National Convention (RNC) as an FBI informant. Darby later admitted to wearing recording devices at planning meetings and during the convention. He testified on behalf of the government in the February 2009 trial of two Texas activists who were arrested at the RNC on charges of making and possessing Molotov cocktails, after Darby encouraged them to do so. The two young men, David McKay and Bradley Crowder, each faced up to fifteen years in prison. Crowder accepted a plea bargain to serve three years in a federal prison; under pressure from federal prosecutors, McKay also pled guilty to being in possession of “unregistered Molotov cocktails” and was sentenced to four years in prison. Information gathered by Darby may also have contributed to the case against the RNC 8, activists from around the country charged with “conspiracy to riot and conspiracy to damage property in the furtherance of terrorism.” Austin activists were particularly stunned by the revelation that Darby had served as an informant because he had been a part of various leftist projects and was a leader at Common Ground Relief, a New Orleans–based organization committed to meeting the short-term needs of community members displaced by natural disasters in the Gulf Coast region and dedicated to rebuilding the region and ensuring Katrina evacuees’ right to return.

I was surprised but not shocked by this news. I had learned as an undergrad at the University of Texas that the campus police department routinely placed plainclothes police officers in the meetings of radical student groups—you know, just to keep an eye on them. That was in fall 2001. We saw the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, watched a cowboy president wage war on terror, and, in the middle of it all, tried to figure out what we could do to challenge the fascist state transformations taking place before our eyes. At the time, however, it seemed silly that there were cops in our meetings—we weren’t the Panthers or the Brown Berets or even some of the rowdier direct-action anti-globalization activists on campus (although we admired them all); we were just young people who didn’t believe war was the best response to the 9/11 attacks. But it wasn’t silly; the FBI does not dismiss political work. Any organization, be it large or small, can provoke the scrutiny of the state. Perhaps your organization poses a large threat, or maybe you’re small now but one day you’ll grow up and be too big to rein in. The state usually opts to kill the movement before it grows.

And informants and provocateurs are the state’s hired gunmen. Government agencies pick people that no one will notice. Often it’s impossible to prove that they’re informants because they appear to be completely dedicated to social justice. They establish intimate relationships with activists, becoming friends and lovers, often serving in leadership roles in organizations. A cursory reading of the literature on social movements and organizations in the 1960s and 1970s reveals this fact. The leadership of the American Indian Movement was rife with informants; it is suspected that informants were also largely responsible for the downfall of the Black Panther Party, and the same can be surmised about the antiwar movement of the 1960s and 1970s. Not surprisingly, these movements that were toppled by informants and provocateurs were also sites where women and queer activists often experienced intense gender violence, as the autobiographies of activists such as Assata Shakur, Elaine Brown, and Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz demonstrate.

Maybe it isn’t that informants are difficult to spot but rather that we have collectively ignored the signs that give them away. To save our movements, we need to come to terms with the connections between gender violence, male privilege, and the strategies that informants (and people who just act like them) use to destabilize radical movements. Time and again heterosexual men in radical movements have been allowed to assert their privilege and subordinate others. Despite all that we say to the contrary, the fact is that radical social movements and organizations in the United States have refused to seriously address gender violence[1] as a threat to the survival of our struggles. We’ve treated misogyny, homophobia, and heterosexism as lesser evils—secondary issues—that will eventually take care of themselves or fade into the background once the “real” issues—racism, the police, class inequality, U.S. wars of aggression—are resolved. There are serious consequences for choosing ignorance. Misogyny and homophobia are central to the reproduction of violence in radical activist communities. Scratch a misogynist and you’ll find a homophobe. Scratch a little deeper and you might find the makings of a future informant (or someone who just destabilizes movements like informants do).

The Makings of an Informant: Brandon Darby and Common Ground

On Democracy Now! Malik Rahim, former Black Panther and cofounder of Common Ground in New Orleans, spoke about how devastated he was by Darby’s revelation that he was an FBI informant. Several times he stated that his heart had been broken. He especially lamented all of the “young ladies” who left Common Ground as a result of Darby’s domineering, aggressive style of organizing. And when those “young ladies” complained? Well, their concerns likely fell on sympathetic but ultimately unresponsive ears—everything may have been true, and after the fact everyone admits how disruptive Darby was, quick to suggest violent, ill-conceived direct-action schemes that endangered everyone he worked with. There were even claims of Darby sexually assaulting female organizers at Common Ground and in general being dismissive of women working in the organization.[2] Darby created conflict in all of the organizations he worked with, yet people were hesitant to hold him accountable because of his history and reputation as an organizer and his “dedication” to “the work.” People continued to defend him until he outed himself as an FBI informant. Even Rahim, for all of his guilt and angst, chose to leave Darby in charge of Common Ground although every time there was conflict in the organization it seemed to involve Darby.

Maybe if organizers made collective accountability around gender violence a central part of our practices we could neutralize people who are working on behalf of the state to undermine our struggles. I’m not talking about witch hunts; I’m talking about organizing in such a way that we nip a potential Brandon Darby in the bud before he can hurt more people. Informants are hard to spot, but my guess is that where there is smoke there is fire, and someone who creates chaos wherever he goes is either an informant or an irresponsible, unaccountable time bomb who can be unintentionally as effective at undermining social-justice organizing as an informant. Ultimately they both do the work of the state and need to be held accountable.

A Brief Historical Reflection on Gender Violence in Radical Movements

Reflecting on the radical organizations and social movements of the 1960s and 1970s provides an important historical context for this discussion. Memoirs by women who were actively involved in these struggles reveal the pervasiveness of tolerance (and in some cases advocacy) of gender violence. Angela Davis, Assata Shakur, and Elaine Brown, each at different points in their experiences organizing with the Black Panther Party (BPP), cited sexism and the exploitation of women (and their organizing labor) in the BPP as one of their primary reasons for either leaving the group (in the cases of Brown and Shakur) or refusing to ever formally join (in Davis’s case). Although women were often expected to make significant personal sacrifices to support the movement, when women found themselves victimized by male comrades there was no support for them or channels to seek redress. Whether it was BPP organizers ignoring the fact that Eldridge Cleaver beat his wife, noted activist Kathleen Cleaver, men coercing women into sex, or just men treating women organizers as subordinated sexual playthings, the BPP and similar organizations tended not to take seriously the corrosive effects of gender violence on liberation struggle. In many ways, Elaine Brown’s autobiography, A Taste of Power: A Black Woman’s Story, has gone the furthest in laying bare the ugly realities of misogyny in the movement and the various ways in which both men and women reproduced and reinforced male privilege and gender violence in these organizations. Her experience as the only woman to ever lead the BPP did not exempt her from the brutal misogyny of the organization. She recounts being assaulted by various male comrades (including Huey Newton) as well as being beaten and terrorized by Eldridge Cleaver, who threatened to “bury her in Algeria” during a delegation to China. Her biography demonstrates more explicitly than either Davis’s or Shakur’s how the masculinist posturing of the BPP (and by extension many radical organizations at the time) created a culture of violence and misogyny that ultimately proved to be the organization’s undoing.

These narratives demystify the legacy of gender violence of the very organizations that many of us look up to. They demonstrate how misogyny was normalized in these spaces, dismissed as “personal” or not as important as the more serious struggles against racism or class inequality. Gender violence has historically been deeply entrenched in the political practices of the Left and constituted one of the greatest (if largely unacknowledged) threats to the survival of these organizations. However, if we pay attention to the work of Davis, Shakur, Brown, and others, we can avoid the mistakes of the past and create different kinds of political community.

The Racial Politics of Gender Violence

Race further complicates the ways in which gender violence unfolds in our communities. In “Looking for Common Ground: Relief Work in Post-Katrina New Orleans as an American Parable of Race and Gender Violence,” Rachel Luft explores the disturbing pattern of sexual assault against white female volunteers by white male volunteers doing rebuilding work in the Upper Ninth Ward in 2006. She points out how Common Ground failed to address white men’s assaults on their co-organizers and instead shifted the blame to the surrounding Black community, warning white women activists that they needed to be careful because New Orleans was a dangerous place. Ultimately it proved easier to criminalize Black men from the neighborhood than to acknowledge that white women and transgender organizers were most likely to be assaulted by white men they worked with. In one case, a white male volunteer was turned over to the police only after he sexually assaulted at least three women in one week. The privilege that white men enjoyed in Common Ground, an organization ostensibly committed to racial justice, meant that they could be violent toward women and queer activists, enact destructive behaviors that undermined the organization’s work, and know that the movement would not hold them accountable in the same way that it did Black men in the community where they worked.

Of course, male privilege is not uniform—white men and men of color are unequal participants in and beneficiaries of patriarchy although they both can and do reproduce gender violence. This disparity in the distribution of patriarchy’s benefits is not lost on women and queer organizers when we attempt to confront men of color who enact gender violence in our communities. We often worry about reproducing particular kinds of racist violence that disproportionately target men of color. We are understandably loath to call the police, involve the state in any way, or place men of color at the mercy of a historically racist criminal (in)justice system; yet our communities (political and otherwise) often do not step up to demand justice on our behalf. We don’t feel comfortable talking to therapists who just reaffirm stereotypes about how fucked-up and exceptionally violent our home communities are. The Left often offers even less support. Our victimization is unfortunate, problematic, but ultimately less important to “the work” than the men of all races who reproduce gender violence in our communities.

Encountering Misogyny on the Left: A Personal Reflection

In the first community group I was actively involved in, I encountered a level of misogyny that I would never have imagined existed in what was supposed to be a radical-people-of-color organization. I was sexually/romantically involved with an older Chicano activist in the group. I was nineteen, an inexperienced young Black activist; he was thirty. He asked me to keep our relationship a secret, and I reluctantly agreed. Later, after he ended the relationship and I was reeling from depression, I discovered that he had been sleeping with at least two other women while we were together. One of them was a friend of mine, another young woman we organized with. Unaware of the nature of our relationship, which he had failed to disclose to her, she slept with him until he disappeared, refusing to answer her calls or explain the abrupt end of their relationship. She and I, after sharing our experiences, began to trade stories with other women who knew and had organized with this man.

We heard of the women who had left a Chicana/o student group and never came back after his lies and secrets blew up while the group was participating in a Zapatista action in Mexico City. The queer, radical, white organizer who left Austin to get away from his abuse. Another white woman, a social worker who thought they might get married only to come to his apartment one evening and find me there. And then there were the ones that came after me. I always wondered if they knew who he really was. The women he dated were amazing, beautiful, kick-ass, radical women that he used as shields to get himself into places he knew would never be open to such a misogynist. I mean, if that cool woman who worked in Chiapas, spoke Spanish, and worked with undocumented immigrants was dating him, he must be down, right? Wrong.

But his misogyny didn’t end there; it was also reflected in his style of organizing. In meetings he always spoke the loudest and longest, using academic jargon that made any discussion excruciatingly more complex than necessary. The academic-speak intimidated people less educated than him because he seemed to know more about radical politics than anyone else. He would talk down to other men in the group, especially those he perceived to be less intelligent than him, which was basically everybody. Then he’d switch gears, apologize for dominating the space, and acknowledge his need to check his male privilege. Ironically, when people did attempt to call him out on his shit, he would feign ignorance—what could they mean, saying that his behavior was masculinist and sexist? He’d complain of being infantilized, refusing to see how he infantilized people all the time. The fact that he was a man of color who could talk a good game about racism and racial-justice struggles masked his abusive behaviors in both radical organizations and his personal relationships. As one of his former partners shared with me, “His radical race analysis allowed people (mostly men but occasionally women as well) to forgive him for being dominating and abusive in his relationships. Womyn had to check their critique of his behavior at the door, lest we lose a man of color in the movement.” One of the reasons it is so difficult to hold men of color accountable for reproducing gender violence is that women of color and white activists continue to be invested in the idea that men of color have it harder than anyone else. How do you hold someone accountable when you believe he is target number one for the state?

Unfortunately he wasn’t the only man like this I encountered in radical spaces—just one of the smarter ones. Reviewing old e-mails, I am shocked at the number of e-mails from men I organized with that were abusive in tone and content, how easily they would talk down to others for minor mistakes. I am more surprised at my meek, diplomatic responses—like an abuse survivor—as I attempted to placate compañeros who saw nothing wrong with yelling at their partners, friends, and other organizers. There were men like this in various organizations I worked with. The one who called his girlfriend a bitch in front of a group of youth of color during a summer encuentro we were hosting. The one who sexually harassed a queer Chicana couple during a trip to México, trying to pressure them into a threesome. The guys who said they would complete a task, didn’t do it, brushed off their compañeras’ demands for accountability, let those women take over the task, and when it was finished took all the credit for someone else’s hard work. The graduate student who hit his partner—and everyone knew he’d done it, but whenever anyone asked, people would just look ashamed and embarrassed and mumble, “It’s complicated.” The ones who constantly demeaned queer folks, even people they organized with. Especially the one who thought it would be a revolutionary act to “kill all these faggots, these niggas on the down low, who are fucking up our children, fucking up our homes, fucking up our world, and fucking up our lives!” The one who would shout you down in a meeting or tell you that you couldn’t be a feminist because you were too pretty. Or the one who thought homosexuality was a disease from Europe.

Yeah, that guy.

Most of those guys probably weren’t informants. Which is a pity because it means they are not getting paid a dime for all the destructive work they do. We might think of these misogynists as inadvertent agents of the state. Regardless of whether they are actually informants or not, the work that they do supports the state’s ongoing campaign of terror against social movements and the people who create them. When queer organizers are humiliated and their political struggles sidelined, that is part of an ongoing state project of violence against radicals. When women are knowingly given STIs, physically abused, dismissed in meetings, pushed aside, and forced out of radical organizing spaces while our allies defend known misogynists, organizers collude in the state’s efforts to destroy us.

The state has already understood a fact that the Left has struggled to accept: misogynists make great informants. Before or regardless of whether they are ever recruited by the state to disrupt a movement or destabilize an organization, they’ve likely become well versed in practices of disruptive behavior. They require almost no training and can start the work immediately. What’s more paralyzing to our work than when women and/or queer folks leave our movements because they have been repeatedly lied to, humiliated, physically/verbally/emotionally/sexually abused? Or when you have to postpone conversations about the work so that you can devote group meetings to addressing an individual member’s most recent offense? Or when that person spreads misinformation, creating confusion and friction among radical groups? Nothing slows down movement building like a misogynist.

What the FBI gets is that when there are people in activist spaces who are committed to taking power and who understand power as domination, our movements will never realize their potential to remake this world. If our energies are absorbed recuperating from the messes that informants (and people who just act like them) create, we will never be able to focus on the real work of getting free and building the kinds of life-affirming, people-centered communities that we want to live in. To paraphrase bell hooks, where there is a will to dominate there can be no justice, because we will inevitably continue reproducing the same kinds of injustice we claim to be struggling against. It is time for our movements to undergo a radical change from the inside out.

Looking Forward: Creating Gender Justice in our Movements

Radical movements cannot afford the destruction that gender violence creates. If we underestimate the political implications of patriarchal behaviors in our communities, the work will not survive.

Lately I’ve been turning to the work of queers/feminists of color to think through how to challenge these behaviors in our movements. I’ve been reading the autobiographies of women who lived through the chaos of social movements debilitated by machismo. I’m revisiting the work of bell hooks, Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz, Toni Cade Bambara, Alice Walker, Audre Lorde, Gioconda Belli, Margaret Randall, Elaine Brown, Pearl Cleage, Ntozake Shange, and Gloria Anzaldúa to see how other women negotiated gender violence in these spaces and to problematize neat or easy answers about how violence is reproduced in our communities. Newer work by radical feminists of color has also been incredibly helpful, especially the zine Revolution Starts at Home: Confronting Partner Abuse in Activist Communities, edited by Ching-In Chen, Dulani, and Leah Lakshmi Piepzna-Samarasinha.

But there are many resources for confronting this dilemma beyond books. The simple act of speaking and sharing our truths is one of the most powerful tools we have. I’ve been speaking to my elders, older women of color in struggle who have experienced the things I’m struggling against, and swapping survival stories with other women. In summer 2008 I began doing workshops on ending misogyny and building collective forms of accountability with Cristina Tzintzún, an Austin-based labor organizer and author of the essay “Killing Misogyny: A Personal Story of Love, Violence, and Strategies for Survival.” We have also begun the even more liberating practice of naming our experiences publicly and calling on our communities to address what we and so many others have experienced.

Dismantling misogyny cannot be work that only women do. We all must do the work because the survival of our movements depends on it. Until we make radical feminist and queer political ethics that directly challenge heteropatriarchal forms of organizing central to our political practice, radical movements will continue to be devastated by the antics of Brandon Darbys (and folks who aren’t informants but just act like them). A queer, radical, feminist ethic of accountability would challenge us to recognize how gender violence is reproduced in our communities, relationships, and organizing practices. Although there are many ways to do this, I want to suggest that there are three key steps that we can take to begin. First, we must support women and queer people in our movements who have experienced interpersonal violence and engage in a collective process of healing. Second, we must initiate a collective dialogue about how we want our communities to look and how to make them safe for everyone. Third, we must develop a model for collective accountability that truly treats the personal as political and helps us to begin practicing justice in our communities. When we allow women/queer organizers to leave activist spaces and protect people whose violence provoked their departure, we are saying we value these de facto state agents who disrupt the work more than we value people whose labor builds and sustains movements.

As angry as gender violence on the Left makes me, I am hopeful. I believe we have the capacity to change and create more justice in our movements. We don’t have to start witch hunts to reveal misogynists and informants. They out themselves every time they refuse to apologize, take ownership of their actions, start conflicts and refuse to work them out through consensus, mistreat their compañer@s. We don’t have to look for them, but when we are presented with their destructive behaviors we have to hold them accountable. Our strategies don’t have to be punitive; people are entitled to their mistakes. But we should expect that people will own those actions and not allow them to become a pattern.

We have a right to be angry when the communities we build that are supposed to be the model for a better, more just world harbor the same kinds of antiqueer, antiwoman, racist violence that pervades society. As radical organizers we must hold each other accountable and not enable misogynists to assert so much power in these spaces. Not allow them to be the faces, voices, and leaders of these movements. Not allow them to rape a compañera and then be on the fucking five o’ clock news. In Brandon Darby’s case, even if no one suspected he was an informant, his domineering and macho behavior should have been all that was needed to call his leadership into question. By not allowing misogyny to take root in our communities and movements, we not only protect ourselves from the efforts of the state to destroy our work but also create stronger movements that cannot be destroyed from within.

[1] I use the term gender violence to refer to the ways in which homophobia and misogyny are rooted in heteronormative understandings of gender identity and gender roles. Heterosexism not only polices non-normative sexualities but also reproduces normative gender roles and identities that reinforce the logic of patriarchy and male privilege.

[2] I learned this from informal conversations with women who had organized with Darby in Austin and New Orleans while participating in the Austin Informants Working Group, which was formed by people who had worked with Darby and were stunned by his revelation that he was an FBI informant.

Share this:
Facebook
StumbleUpon
Digg
Reddit
Print
This entry was posted on June 7, 2010 at 11:00 am and is filed under >> analysis of news, abuse, cointelpro, organizing, politics, w
hava1
 
Posts: 1141
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:07 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby compared2what? » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:49 am

"What constitutes Misogyny?" thread, shorter version:

Bad for women = Jews, blacks, women, cursing, dirty hippies, uppity backchat.

Good for women = marriage and family in a good Christian home, ladylike conduct.

Not in the picture = the state, society, most of recorded history, sex, probably some other stuff.

_____________________

Please make a note of it for your records.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby American Dream » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:57 am

Cross-posting on the Egypt Thread:

http://valtinsblog.blogspot.com/2011/03 ... s-for.html

The "New" Egypt: "Virginity Tests" for Protesters


While I've little time to blog today, this particular story seemed especially worthy of promotion. Amnesty International has sent the following mailing to its supporters (emphasis in original):

The Egyptian military may have just hit a disturbing, new low: at least 18 women who were arrested during a peaceful protest in Tahrir Square on March 9 said they were forced to take "virginity tests".

Those women were threatened with charges of prostitution if they "failed" the tests. One woman, who said she was a virgin but whose test supposedly proved otherwise, was beaten and given electric shocks.


Journalist William Fisher at The Public Record rightly notes, "I know this sounds like something out of Torquemada in the 15th Century or Mengele in the 20th. But it’s neither. It’s post-Mubarak Egypt in the second decade of the 21st Century."

Twenty-year-old Salwa Hosseini told Amnesty International that after she was arrested and taken to a military prison in Heikstep, she was made, with the other women, to take off all her clothes to be searched by a female prison guard, in a room with two open doors and a window. During the strip search, Hosseini said male soldiers were looking into the room and taking pictures of the naked women.

The women were then subjected to ‘virginity tests’ in a different room by a man in a white coat....

According to information received by Amnesty International, one woman who said she was a virgin but whose test supposedly proved otherwise was beaten and given electric shocks.

‘Virginity tests’ are a form of torture when they are forced or coerced.


Amnesty International is asking people to write to Hillary Clinton to get her "to use her influence to demand immediate action." I am less sanguine that she will either a) do that, or b) really give a damn.

Those who thought the "revolution" was over don't understand that it's hardly begun, and can easily be derailed onto the same old paths. The military in Egypt is not to be trusted, and those who think it will reform that country are terribly mistaken. What will it take to end illusions in such ideas?
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby norton ash » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:28 pm

compared2what? wrote:"What constitutes Misogyny?" thread, shorter version:

Bad for women = Jews, blacks, women, cursing, dirty hippies, uppity backchat.

Good for women = marriage and family in a good Christian home, ladylike conduct.

Not in the picture = the state, society, most of recorded history, sex, probably some other stuff.

_____________________

Please make a note of it for your records.


Not one of your better efforts, C2W. This synopsis makes very little sense. Unless racist Christians who don't know history and won't address prevailing sexist power structures or human sexuality are dominating the dialogue here. :shrug:

I will defend your right to a subjective-to-the-point-of-bizarre takeaway, and by all means please expand, but what's here is not enough to be of any use in my records, thanks.
Zen horse
User avatar
norton ash
 
Posts: 4067
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Canada
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby OP ED » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:05 pm

compared2what? wrote:Good for women = marriage and family in a good Christian home, ladylike conduct.


hello darlin. i thought i missed coming here and engaging in these horrible and rounded discussions, but now i think it was just that i missed you.

Θεοτόκε Παρθένε, χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη Μαρία, ὁ Κύριος μετὰ σοῦ. εὐλογημένη σὺ ἐν γυναιξί, καὶ εὐλογημένος ὁ καρπὸς τῆς κοιλίας σου, ὅτι Σωτήρα ἔτεκες τῶν ψυχῶν ἡμῶν


context is everything.

Nordic wrote:
marycarnival wrote:
Nordic wrote:Men call men "bitches". As in "hey, today you're my bitch".

It's usually like that, "my bitch".

Oops, and I said I'd quit posting in this thread.

Just sharing info, no point other than that intended!


Totally, Nordic.

Do you find that guys use the term 'bitch' in this manner in an ironic/'endearing' way as some women do, or is it always a put-down? Like on that show 'It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia', where the one guy walks in and says, 'Hey, bitches!' to his buddies, one of whom is a woman...or is even that a sort of back-handed put-down disguised as chumminess?



It's a backhanded put down, not disguised as chumminess, but indistinguishable from chumminess, since a hell of a lot of men show affection for each other by constantly insulting each other.


indeed. and not just (from) men...

[or (to) men]

about the last thing OP ED's wife said to it when she left today was: "go ahead then, you filthy, lazy, cunt. you know i hate you."

this was in reference to the news that i had left work early and intended to spend the day fucking around at the library.

afterwards, as she walked away she yelled "love ya, see ya tonite".

this is normal conversation in the context of our relationship.

[you should hear the way she talks in bed]

also this context, the actor and the audience, seems much more important to me than the form that the communication takes. that is, it being in writing doesn't really change it if i know its from her.

she also texts me that sort of shit all the time. [or worse]

[and so do my friends]

i have a hard time even putting my mind around the notion of taking words-in-themselves seriously enough to be offended or emotionally hurt by the selections made by the speaker/writer without some sort of context that suggests that it has been intended to harm me emotionally or cause offense.

perhaps this is partially cultural in nature. OP ED is naturally inclined to find it very amusing that you motherfuckers can even have these discussions about the rightness or wrongness of specific words [arrangements of letters] themselves. sigh. maybe i'm just desensitized.
Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore:
fecemi la divina podestate,
la somma sapienza e 'l primo amore.

:: ::
S.H.C.R.
User avatar
OP ED
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Detroit
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby barracuda » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:59 pm

OP ED wrote:...OP ED's wife...


Are congratulations in order? if so, well done.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Grizzly and 151 guests