David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

[brekin]

I think in some ways this may be the most important thread on RI. A brash new poster shows up and simply asks do you believe in lizard men and the whole house comes unglued. It is easier and safer to question the questioner then simply answer the question.

A few years ago a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons came to my door. I braced for the clash of world views. Instead of giving me the usual speech, though, they simply asked something like whether I believed there was a force of good in the world. I thought for a minute and said yes. They gave me their pamphlet, thanked me and left.

I think everyone here wants to make things better. Some think Icke is the way, some think he is the problem, some think even talking about Icke is the problem, some think asking people what they think of Icke is the problem.

I think if you really want to make things better than you should be open to having your views challenged no matter where you are above.

slimmhouse wrote:

Who's evidence are we talking about here? What kind of criteria fit the bill as evidence. Who decides that ?

How about photographs, videos, eyewitness accounts from more than one witness of the same event, audio recordings, dna samples, skeletons, skin moltings, artifacts, technology, etc How about any evidence other than what Icke says and those who are likeminded. I would like to know what evidence convinced those who agree with Icke convinced them? If it was just something he said that clicked - well that happens in churches everyday with people.

Seems to me it would be pretty easy to get some tangible evidence of lizard-human hybrids who've been around for thousands of years. None of them ever got hit by a mack truck? No butler ever pick up master's skin molting? No sex tape of some blue blood alien-hybrid gets leaked? What type of HMO do these lizard-hybrids have? Having a reptile/mammal physiology has got to be complicated, how do they treat diseases? Don't they need that gold stuff for energy or something? How do they mine, process, transport, store, eat that stuff? What do the lizard-hybrids do with all the softy hybrids that go all mammal and feel guilty about exploiting the human race and call for abolition? And on and on.

slimmhouse wrote:

Icke GETS NOTHING FROM THIS, other than another pile of hard fucking work, for a project that will hopefully throw some light on some serious fukn issues.
Its funny how none of this ever enters the mind of the Organisation of Anti Ickeism.

I agree you weren't fundraising for Icke. But we can't pretend he is not a salesman and some self less truth speaker. Icke sells books, dvd's, cd's and even t-shirts on his site. http://davidickebooks.co.uk/index.php He speaks to sell out crowds for money. Not to mention the revenue he probably generates from his site regarding advertising, etc. This guy is not living out of his van giving away free cassette tapes of his message and constantly being imprisoned for some self less crusade. The man is nothing if not a veritable industry; the Anthony Robbins of the conspiracy circuit. His pile of hard fukn work generates a big pile of fukn cash. And the bigger success one is allowed to become the less ones message can really be any threat to the ptb.

AD wrote:
That said, racism and "anti-Semitism" really do exist and they do have a lot to do with the concerns about David Icke, about Gilad Atzmon and about other fundamental issues that these three defenders seem to completely ignore, minimize and/or actively invalidate. And that is a problem within the context of this board- not the only problem- but a very, very real one...

Searcher08 wrote:
This is precisely why I have raised your specific behaviour on this thread towards particularly SLAD and also slimmouse with the Mods, something I have never IIRC done on R.I. before.At least now it is out in the open at long last, despite your previous denials that you viewed SLAD, slim or myself in this way.

As far as I can tell AD is saying followers/fans of Icke may unwittingly be endorsing a belief system that is racist and anti-Semitic without themselves being racist or anti-Semitic. Do you understand the difference? It is like being a huge Disney fan and loving the film Aladdin. You may not be anti-Muslim/racist/or believe in anti-Arab stereotypes at all or aware you are consuming such images while watching Aladdin but by liking the film, buying it, encouraging your friends to watch it and accepting the images you view you may be endorsing passively such a worldview.

While you may disagree with AD on his interpretation of Icke's views and those who share them, he's not pulling them out of his ass. He's not the first to think Icke's views are anti-Semitic or racist so I don't think you can dismiss his reasoning. Icke has a world view that claims a minority of humans are evil non-humans that control the world. Sharing this belief is no small matter. At the most AD is saying some people haven't considered the whole content and context of Icke's message.

[American Dream]

Not saying you want to propagate racism but unfortunately you do endorse it, no matter how good your intentions...

yep, that's what I've known you've meant, AD, from the very first time you flagellated me with comic strips a couple of years ago. And that's why I find this method of yours to be beyond contempt.

You are telling me and other adults that we support racism as none of us are intelligent, thoughtful or mature enough to be able to discern whether or not we are doing so. it`s putrid.

You know what? YOU are the only one supporting any sort of "ism" here. You are dividing people into a class of your own creation using your own definition and treating us all as second class humans.

fucking shame on you you self-righteous hypocrite.

I have no recollection what you're talking about. Is there any way you can link to the specific event in question?

I do absolutely believe that Rothschild Zionism type discourse is racist bunk, though...

[barracuda]

Sorry, gotta sign off for now, I gotta go wipe my ass with your last post, Mason

JUST KIDDING! Geeze, it's just a gag.

It is proper to ask "Do you believe" before asking "Why do you believe." Asking only "what evidence do you believe" would presume you believed in human-alien hybrids. No? Wait a second, did you assume I assumed the people here believed in human-alien hybrids?

Of course i'm looking for evidence. Stop feigning outrage that i deceived you. If i want somebody's opinion on the taste of Pepsi i want to find somebody who has tasted Pepsi.

I haven't been asking the wrong question, i simply didn't say "pretty please with a cherry on top." Instead of saying "if you are an Icke supporter," i should have been saying "if you ever defended Icke." Whodathunk?

Bullshit. Cut to the fucking chase and quit dicking around. You've got important balloon bouquets to debunk dude. How can you afford to waste valuable time with the fucking tap dancing?

And all this time i thought i was just misunderstood.

You're not misunderstood. You're an ass.

I believe i've been asking for credible evidence. Anecdotal evidence is not credible when dealing with incredible claims. If i'm wondering if my toast is toasted, i am willing to trust the word of an eyewitness staring into my toaster. If somebody claims shapeshifting human-alien hybrids walk the earth and orchestrates world events, the claim is extraordinary and requires extraordinary evidence - certainly something more direct than eye and ear witnesses.

No, you've been asking who believes in it. This is the first time you've qualified your request in that way.

Evidence is evidence. If you can't or won't debunk the eyewitness evidence which exists copiously for shapeshifting reptilians, then just fucking own up to it and move on. Can you or not?

Your prevarications have got me reconsidering my opinion of this entire subject. You're a bad-faith operator.

[Wombaticus Rex]

A brash new poster shows up and simply asks do you believe in lizard men and the whole house comes unglued. It is easier and safer to question the questioner then simply answer the question.

Wow, that's going to give him quite a hard-on. He really is brave Galileo! Shit, I guess I had this whole conflict wrong, cuz I thought this was an ongoing issue from the Gilad Atzmon thread. Guess I'm done here...and I need to go ask myself hard questions about my Icke-enabling.



Looking forward to everyone getting their views challenged on that most important of questions: alien-human hybrids.

[Canadian_watcher]

I think in some ways this may be the most important thread on RI. A brash new poster shows up and simply asks do you believe in lizard men and the whole house comes unglued. It is easier and safer to question the questioner then simply answer the question.

take the chip off your shoulder and the blinders off your eyes and you'll see that MANY people have answered the questions already. It might not be the black/white answer you or he want, but why should it? Is this the inquisition? Is this a test to see if any of us qualify for some mysterious club? What is the POINT of demanding an answer? Why are you supporting the side that has no business asking instead of the side that claims a right to abstain?

You know what else? From my perspective the board has not come unglued at all - in fact it seems very much unified at this time compared to MANY others.

brekin wrote:

slimmhouse wrote:

Who's evidence are we talking about here? What kind of criteria fit the bill as evidence. Who decides that ?

How about photographs, videos, eyewitness accounts from more than one witness of the same event, audio recordings, dna samples, skeletons, skin moltings, artifacts, technology, etc How about any evidence other than what Icke says and those who are likeminded. I would like to know what evidence convinced those who agree with Icke convinced them? If it was just something he said that clicked - well that happens in churches everyday with people.

It also happens every day with regards to a lot of scientific things that I'll bet you've never actually seen any evidence of and don't understand fully even if you read up on it. Not to mention that once again we're back here at a point where some of us aren't bound and gagged by the "scientific' model of accepted evidence. Like for example if my husband ran up from the basement and told me he'd just seen a rat, but then we couldn't find one, do you think I'd tell him I need fucking photos in order to believe him?

If I came home and there was a giant puddle of tomato juice in the middle of my floor and I cleaned it up without taking a video of it first should people just AUTOMATICALLY think I'm lying if I report it to them without being able to give them the first clue as to WHY or HOW it got there?????

brekin wrote:

As far as I can tell AD is saying followers/fans of Icke may unwittingly be endorsing a belief system that is racist and anti-Semitic without themselves being racist or anti-Semitic. Do you understand the difference?

yeah, so both you AND he think you are so much more intelligent and enlightened than so many of the rest of us.
at least we know where you stand now. Do you understand what I mean? Am I going too fast?

[American Dream]

As far as I can tell AD is saying followers/fans of Icke may unwittingly be endorsing a belief system that is racist and anti-Semitic without themselves being racist or anti-Semitic. Do you understand the difference? It is like being a huge Disney fan and loving the film Aladdin. You may not be anti-Muslim/racist/or believe in anti-Arab stereotypes at all or aware you are consuming such images while watching Aladdin but by liking the film, buying it, encouraging your friends to watch it and accepting the images you view you may be endorsing passively such a worldview.

While you may disagree with AD on his interpretation of Icke's views and those who share them, he's not pulling them out of his ass. He's not the first to think Icke's views are anti-Semitic or racist so I don't think you can dismiss his reasoning. Icke has a world view that claims a minority of humans are evil non-humans that control the world. Sharing this belief is no small matter. At the most AD is saying some people haven't considered the whole content and context of Icke's message.

Yes- brekin gets it. Yay!

[Wombaticus Rex]

AD, let's just start here:

Huh? What are the aspersions I have cast on RI in general? Please be specific- some direct quotes would be helpful- and then I might understand what you're talking about. My hunch is that you're filtering heavily through your own lens- though I'm not imagining that this is intentional at all.

1) Direct quotes would be helpful, and you had asked for them before, thus I included several. So I take it you need direct quotes other than the direct quotes that I gave you? Please advise.

2) I do indeed heavily filter my perceptions through my own lens, as you so ably put it. Do you not? Please advise.

I can't get past either one of those points because it hugely effects how I can respond to you.

[Canadian_watcher]

Not saying you want to propagate racism but unfortunately you do endorse it, no matter how good your intentions...

yep, that's what I've known you've meant, AD, from the very first time you flagellated me with comic strips a couple of years ago. And that's why I find this method of yours to be beyond contempt.

You are telling me and other adults that we support racism as none of us are intelligent, thoughtful or mature enough to be able to discern whether or not we are doing so. it`s putrid.

You know what? YOU are the only one supporting any sort of "ism" here. You are dividing people into a class of your own creation using your own definition and treating us all as second class humans.

fucking shame on you you self-righteous hypocrite.

I have no recollection what you're talking about. Is there any way you can link to the specific event in question?

I do absolutely believe that Rothschild Zionism type discourse is racist bunk, though...

Now who is playing stupid, AD?
You don't have to recollect a THING. The FACT is that you have just accused many posters of 'unwittingly supporting racism' (and by the way, I don't consider anti-semitism to be racism, hence the special name. We might as well use it, don't you think?)

[American Dream]

AD, let's just start here:

Huh? What are the aspersions I have cast on RI in general? Please be specific- some direct quotes would be helpful- and then I might understand what you're talking about. My hunch is that you're filtering heavily through your own lens- though I'm not imagining that this is intentional at all.

1) Direct quotes would be helpful, and you had asked for them before, thus I included several. So I take it you need direct quotes other than the direct quotes that I gave you? Please advise.

2) I do indeed heavily filter my perceptions through my own lens, as you so ably put it. Do you not? Please advise.

I can't get past either one of those points because it hugely effects how I can respond to you.

The big doubt is that I am casting aspersions on RI in general. I don't know what exactly you mean...

[slimmouse]

As far as I can tell AD is saying followers/fans of Icke may unwittingly be endorsing a belief system that is racist and anti-Semitic without themselves being racist or anti-Semitic. Do you understand the difference? It is like being a huge Disney fan and loving the film Aladdin. You may not be anti-Muslim/racist/or believe in anti-Arab stereotypes at all or aware you are consuming such images while watching Aladdin but by liking the film, buying it, encouraging your friends to watch it and accepting the images you view you may be endorsing passively such a worldview.

While you may disagree with AD on his interpretation of Icke's views and those who share them, he's not pulling them out of his ass. He's not the first to think Icke's views are anti-Semitic or racist so I don't think you can dismiss his reasoning. Icke has a world view that claims a minority of humans are evil non-humans that control the world. Sharing this belief is no small matter. At the most AD is saying some people haven't considered the whole content and context of Icke's message.

Yes- brekin gets it. Yay!

So why do they keep rolling out quotes from getting on 20 years ago, whilst crassly dismissing Ickes current position, which is completely anti war, completely anti racist, and homes in successfully, rather like the occupy movement, on where the real problems lie in our society?

[American Dream]

Not saying you want to propagate racism but unfortunately you do endorse it, no matter how good your intentions...

yep, that's what I've known you've meant, AD, from the very first time you flagellated me with comic strips a couple of years ago. And that's why I find this method of yours to be beyond contempt.

You are telling me and other adults that we support racism as none of us are intelligent, thoughtful or mature enough to be able to discern whether or not we are doing so. it`s putrid.

You know what? YOU are the only one supporting any sort of "ism" here. You are dividing people into a class of your own creation using your own definition and treating us all as second class humans.

fucking shame on you you self-righteous hypocrite.

I have no recollection what you're talking about. Is there any way you can link to the specific event in question?

I do absolutely believe that Rothschild Zionism type discourse is racist bunk, though...

Now who is playing stupid, AD?
You don't have to recollect a THING. The FACT is that you have just accused many posters of 'unwittingly supporting racism' (and by the way, I don't consider anti-semitism to be racism, hence the special name. We might as well use it, don't you think?)

Oh, it's entirely possible that you said something which i considered ignorant as far as racism, possibly concerning world jewish conspiracy theory or maybe something else. It's just that I have no idea what you're talking about. What was the comic?

And my sincere apologies that you were so offended- will have to find the specific incident to see what- if anything- I could have done differently...

[Wombaticus Rex]

Okay, that is perfectly fair. My point is just that being vague on a "people" and "they" level does exactly that: casts aspersions on RI in general.

Thank you for specifically naming people so we can clarify this conversation and the problem.

Also, please note that it takes two (or more) to tangle. I post material which says that Icke has a spotty record for claiming unfounded assumptions as factual and for propagating racist/far right twaddle. It takes somebody else to heatedly deny this and/or post endless reams of crap that may serve only to distract from a coherent discussion. Have you really read this thread? There is a whole lot of garbage on there and the vast bulk of it is not from me.

That is definitely the problem, yes. You continue to antagonize people who 1) don't take it very well, 2) get disruptive as a result, and 3) have repeatedly, repeatedly explained their stance to you directly. You're not gonna change CW's mind.

It takes two to tango, and you've been calling the tune a lot here lately.

The astute reader will notice this is part of a strong pattern....

[Wombaticus Rex]

The astute reader will notice how the defenders of Icke have worked so hard to avoid actually engaging with the content of the video.

Unfortunately, this is true to form and by now is clearly part of a very strong pattern...

Bumping for LULZ.

[brekin]

barracuda, Wombacticus Rex, why all the drama with/about MIB?

It is obvious some people on the forum believe or are highly sympathetic to the idea that alien/humans hybrids are running the world no matter how much you want to dismiss/minimize that fact. This thread wouldn't have gotten past page 2 if not. Probably would have 20 less pages if they were more forthcoming earlier. But good for them, I'm all for diversity of opinion.

Obviously MIB (judging from his site) is of the "ha ha I've debunked your silly superstition" school and was just cruising for familiar material. Are you mad because we provided him some here at RI? Honestly (and no offense MIB) his agenda seems pretty simple and obvious. I doubt he's even fishing (or aware) of Icke's purported racist or anti-semitic angles and the reptile/human hybrid is enough for him to play gotcha with.

We can meta-meta MIB's intentions and how he asks the question perpetually and get mad at him because he makes some regulars have hissy fits but in the end the question remains the same, and is a simple one.

Dear R.I. Do you really believe in lizard men?

[Elvis]

Article posted on page 45:

Class politics or anti-semitic conspiracies? Why David Icke, Ron Paul and Alex Jones are dangerous to the Occupy Movement.

I agree that Icke, Paul, and Jones (sounds like a law firm or a rock band) are not generally helpful, and potentially, if not probably, harmful to the Occupy movement. But the article is simply unfair when it says this:

Often the phrase “International Bankers” is used interchangeably with Jews, or “Zionists”, alleging that the world is in the thrall of a gigantic Jewish-Banker conspiracy.

Often? How often? Like, never?
No quotes are offered, most likely because they don't exist.

It does happen; the day I stopped reading 'What Really Happened' was when Rivero wrote "Jews" when he clearly meant "Israelis." Just a typing mistake maybe. I don't know exactly what is in Michael Rivero's mind and heart, he seems like a good guy, but he was attracting a following I wasn't comfortable with (I never participated in WRH, just read).

But really, that article is reduced to a cheap smear if they have to claim that Icke, Jones and Paul say "International Bankers" interchangeably with "Jews." (I've never seen them do it.)

It's not much better than Alex Jones himself screaming at David de Rothschild, "I'VE GOT YOUR NUMBER, 'REDSHIELD'!!!" (The day I stopped listening to Alex Jones, btw. Never was a big fan.)