The 2012 "Election" thread

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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby justdrew » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:38 am

me:
Candidates you side with...

93%
Jill Stein
Jill Stein Green

on domestic policy, foreign policy, environmental, economic, healthcare, science, social, and immigration issues

84%
Barack Obama
Barack Obama Democrat

on economic, social, foreign policy, environmental, science, and healthcare issues

75%
Rocky Anderson
Rocky Anderson Justice

on foreign policy, economic, environmental, and social issues

7%
Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney Republican

no major issues

59%
Oregon Voters

on domestic policy, foreign policy, economic, social, environmental, healthcare, science, and immigration issues.

60%
American Voters

on domestic policy, foreign policy, social, science, environmental, and healthcare issues.
Show all candidates
Parties you side with...

94% Democrat

91% Green

31% Libertarian

5% Republican
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:53 am

77%
Jill Stein Green

on economic, foreign policy, environmental, science, social, and immigration issues

70%
Gary Johnson
Gary Johnson Libertarian

on foreign policy, domestic policy, social, and immigration issues

64%
Barack Obama
Barack Obama Democrat

on economic, science, social, and immigration issues

56%
Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney Republican

on domestic policy issues

48%
California Voters

on domestic policy, science, environmental, social, and immigration issues.

53%
American Voters

on domestic policy, economic, foreign policy, science, environmental, social, and immigration issues.

on economic, foreign policy, environmental, science, social, and immigration issues

70%
Gary Johnson
Gary Johnson Libertarian

on foreign policy, domestic policy, social, and immigration issues

64%
Barack Obama
Barack Obama Democrat

on economic, science, social, and immigration issues

56%
Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney Republican

on domestic policy issues

48%
California Voters

on domestic policy, science, environmental, social, and immigration issues.

53%
American Voters

on domestic policy, economic, foreign policy, science, environmental, social, and immigration issues.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby ninakat » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:59 am

Rachel Maddow just took the test and came up 100% Obama! Yay! No, wait, it's The Onion, isn't it? Read it and scream my brothers and sisters.... (WARNING: may be triggering -- it was for me)

Maddow reviews accomplishments of Obama’s ‘historic presidency’

On the eve of Election Day, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow reviewed the many accomplishments of President Barack Obama’s first term.

Obama’s list of accomplishments included an equal pay law, expanding hate crimes laws, health care reform, revamping student loans, increasing national service programs, the “cash for clunkers” program, preventing a financial collapse, signing the single largest tax cut, reforming Wall Street, appointing the first Hispanic justice to the Supreme Court, signing a new nuclear weapons treaty with Russia, providing first responders who were sickened after the 9/11 with benefits, and repealing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”

“All of that was accomplished in the first two years of his presidency,” Maddow said. “Then came the 2010 mid-terms, and the House went to the Republicans, and they pledged to oppose everything the president did.”

But the liberal MSNBC host said that wasn’t enough to prevent Obama from accomplishing even more as president. Maddow noted that in the next two years, Obama ordered the killing of Osama bin Laden, signed an agreement to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan, helped overthrow Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi, imposed new sanctions on Iran, extended employment benefits to same sex partners, halted the deportation of immigrants illegal brought to the United States as children — and quit smoking.

“Four years after that historic night when the nation elected our first African American president, we are now in the position to make a decision, not that will result in a historic election like that one, we are in the position of making a decision that will be a national verdict on what has been a historic presidency,” Maddow said.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Rory » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:18 am

I side with Jill Stein on most issues in the 2012 Presidential Election.
Candidates you side with...

93%
Jill Stein
Jill Stein Green

on environmental, foreign policy, immigration, economic, social, healthcare, and domestic policy issues

82%
Rocky Anderson
Rocky Anderson Justice

on economic, foreign policy, environmental, social, and domestic policy issues

74%
Gary Johnson
Gary Johnson Libertarian

on foreign policy, healthcare, science, social, and domestic policy issues (Libertarians are Gobshites)

70%
Barack Obama
Barack Obama Democrat

on science, economic, environmental, and social issues

1%
Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney Republican

no major issues (fuck the GOP)

53%
California Voters

on environmental, healthcare, immigration, and social issues.

55%
American Voters

on environmental, economic, healthcare, immigration, science, and social issues.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Elvis » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:05 am

8bitagent wrote:
56%
Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney Republican

on domestic policy issues


You realize, after the Revolution we'll be coming for you. :mrgreen:
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:28 am

Elvis wrote:
8bitagent wrote:
56%
Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney Republican

on domestic policy issues


You realize, after the Revolution we'll be coming for you. :mrgreen:



I have no idea how it came up Mitt Romney by 56%. I put strongly for gay marriage, all rights to "illegal immigrants", pro choice, ending Bush tax cuts,
pro alternative energy, against the death penalty, etc.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:37 am

Why Is the Left Defending Obama?
The author's "Progressive case against Obama" stirred strong reactions. He takes on his critics.

http://www.alternet.org/why-left-defending-obama

(response to his critics from his article
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/27/the_progressive_case_against_obama/
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/27/the_pro ... nst_obama/ )

The 2012 election is Tuesday. We face a choice between Barack Obama, a candidate whose Presidency we can examine and evaluate, and Mitt Romney, who is a dangerous cipher. My argument – made last week in “Progressive Case Against Obama “, is that progressives should evaluate these risks honestly, with a clear-headed analysis of Obama’s track record.This piece sparked a massive debate that has had both Obama loyalists and Republicans resort to outlandish name-calling , evidently as a result of their unwillingness or inability to address the issues raised.

It is remarkable to see the level to which Obama defenders have sunk. Let’s start with a basic problem – why is Obama in a tight race? Mitt Romney is more caricature than candidate, a horrifically cartoonish plutocrat whose campaign is staffed by people that allow secret tapings of obviously offensive statements. The Republican base finds Romney uninspiring, and Romney has been unable to provide one good reason to choose him except that he is not the incumbent. Yet, Barack Obama is in a dog fight with this clown. Why? It isn’t because a few critics are writing articles in places like Salon. The answer, if you look at the data, is that Barack Obama has been a terrible President and an enemy to progressives. Unemployment is high. American household income since the recovery started in 2009 has dropped 5% . Poverty has increased substantially. Home equity – the main store of wealth for the middle class – has dropped by $5-7 trillion, in contrast to the increase in financial asset values held by Obama’s friends and donors. And this was done explicitly through Obama’s policies.

Obama came into office with a massive mandate, overwhelming control of Congress, hundreds of billions of TARP money to play with, the ability to prosecute Wall Street executives and break their power, and the opportunity for a massive stimulus. Most importantly, the country was willing to follow – the public believed his calls for change. Yet, instead of restructuring the economy and doing obvious things like hardening infrastructure against global warming, he entrenched oligarchy. This was explicit. Obama broke a whole series of campaign promises that would have helped the middle class. These promises would have reduced household debt, raised the minimum wage, stopped outsourcing, and protected workers. He broke these promises for a reason – Barack Obama uses his power for what he believes in, and Barack Obama is a conservative technocrat. Obama sided with Wall Street. He probably made the foreclosure crisis worse with a series of programs designed to help banks but marketed to help homeowners. These were his policies, they reflected the views of his most valued advisors like Robert Rubin and his Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner. Moreover, he’s proud of this record – the only mistake he cites in his first term is inadequately communicating how effective he has been, focusing too much on getting the policy right.

And the result is inequality in income gains that is higher than that under George W. Bush. Most of Obama’s defenders refuse to acknowledge Obama’s role in this policy mess. He deserves credit for the auto bailout, but when it comes to the bank bailouts, hey he’s just one man. What could we possibly expect? Yet, reelecting this man to a Presidency that is hamstrung by the system is the most important thing in the world. In other words, just as they’ve been arguing for years, Obama is both entirely powerless and utterly essential.

Let’s examine a few articles to see the contortions certain progressives go to in order to defend Obama’s policies.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Rory » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:38 am

8bitagent wrote:
Elvis wrote:
8bitagent wrote:
56%
Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney Republican

on domestic policy issues


You realize, after the Revolution we'll be coming for you. :mrgreen:



I have no idea how it came up Mitt Romney by 56%. I put strongly for gay marriage, all rights to "illegal immigrants", pro choice, ending Bush tax cuts,
pro alternative energy, against the death penalty, etc.


Maybe it factored in that bullshit coke/pepsi meme you posted and figured you couldn't honestly tell the difference between a GOP candidate and a Democrat one :tongout

:wink
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby justdrew » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:56 am

OMFG, this woman may be the most insane propaganda spewing bullshit artist I've ever heard... "the numbers lady" :crybaby :wallhead: :bleh:

In the first hour, numerologist Glynis McCants talked about numerological patterns, significant dates, and what she sees ahead for the presidential election. Barack Obama is in the fight of his life because he is in a personal year of '8', she explained, noting that despite his obvious campaign fatigue he shares a life path number '2' with two-term presidents Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan, which she believes gives him a slight edge. Mitt Romney has a '6' for leadership and is entering a cycle of '3' which is all about communication, McCants said, suggesting that this could mean he will be the next president. Regardless of the outcome, running mate Paul Ryan will be a force to be reckoned with in politics, she predicted. Speaking about the sense of anxiety many are feeling presently, McCants indicated that the year 2012 produces a world number of '5' which promotes chaos and drama. She pointed to several significant dates coming up: 12/12/12, a good day to launch a creative endeavor and 12/21/12, then end of the Mayan calendar and what McCants described as a healing date. On 11/11 McCants recommended listeners light a white candle and write down something they would like to achieve.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:20 am

Particularly for New York State residents:

This message was excerpted from an email I recently received and it has some useful advice for NY voters.

"We're all in the soup, whether we vote or not. So we may as well vote. Meanwhile we can continue with our efforts to incite revolution or whatever by other means.

I can sympathize with someone who won't vote for the major parties. Here in New York State we have electoral fusion which offers an interesting twist. It allows you to vote for a major party candidate, someone who might actually win, but you can cast that vote on a third party line. This sends a message that you expect the candidate to uphold the principles of that third party when in office. For example, the Working Families Party has been leading the fight against money in politics for the last two years. When you vote for candidates on the Working Families Party line instead of, say, the Democratic Party line, you send a message along with your vote that you too oppose money in politics. And when WFP-endorsed candidates wins, which they often do, the WFP makes sure they know how many votes came in for them on the WFP line and the principles those votes represent."
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby justdrew » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:04 am

:partydance:

Thoughts on the Left at the End of an Election Cycle
November 5, 2012 | Erik Loomis


Scott has provided the fundamental case for Obama’s reelection, no matter how disappointed with him you might be. I want to build on that a bit by summarizing a few thoughts I’ve had about the left during the election cycle. Frankly, I’m a bit disappointed in many of those who consider themselves to be on the left. We have created some self-mythology that we are the reality-based community, the ones who have an understanding of history and government, and who take policy seriously and learn from the past and present.


This is obviously not true.


Within left politics in 2012, the big story has not been Occupy or any other social movement. It hasn’t been building on the Wisconsin protests to create long-lasting change. It’s been a discussion of this question: Has Obama been so horrible that we can’t vote for him?


I’m really disappointed in the left in this conversation.


I would like to think that we on the left actually do understand history. We do not. There is a clear path to change. Conservatives understand this. You take over the party structure. That’s what they did in the 1950s and 1960s when they were disgusted by the moderate Republicanism of Dwight Eisenhower, Earl Warren, and Nelson Rockefeller. They took over party structures and local offices and turned them into bastions of energized conservatism. Note that conservatives basically don’t run 3rd party campaigns. Libertarians might talk about doing this–but they almost all vote Republican in the end because they know that they are moving their agenda forward by doing so.


Any reading of history shows that change within the American political system does not come through third party campaigns. It comes through the hard work of organizing our communities to demand change. Eventually legal and political changes are necessary–but only after people are organized to demand them. Look at the major movements in the last century. The labor movement, African-American civil rights, the women’s movement, gay rights movement. Each of these movements spent decades (or a century) organizing for change. For each of them, there was a moment when it all came together and they could demand transformations of federal and state law, which for gay rights is happening right now.


Note that not a single one of these transformational social movements used a third party mechanism as an important strategy.


At times, a 3rd party could theoretically make sense. The last one that made any difference was the Populists. But there are two caveats to using that as an argument in favor of a 3rd party today. First, as historian Jeffrey Ostler has shown, in reality Populists thrived primarily in 1-party states after the Civil War. For reasons of regional identity coming from the Civil War, corruption, and political violence, many states had only one functioning political party. That meant that there was no way for the Populists to get their voices heard. They were really operating as a 2nd party. In states that were legitimately contested by both parties such as Iowa, the Populists had a very hard time gaining traction. Second, the Populists came out of nearly 20 years of organizing among angry farmers. It was the voices of millions of bankrupt farmers coming up through the system. Unable to see the changes they wanted on a local or state level, they eventually went national.


There has not been a single 3rd party campaign since World War II that has come out of grassroots organizing. Every one of them has been about a nationally known figure (or a rich self-funder) deciding to make a point and through a 3rd party presidential run. That’s true whether we are talking about Henry Wallace, Ross Perot, or Ralph Nader. The only possible counterexamples to this are the segregationist runs of Strom Thurmond and George Wallace, but that’s obviously such a different phenomenon as to be irrelevant to this conversation.


Those who are calling for a 3rd party run today have no interest in party building, just as Nader didn’t in 2000. They are angry at Obama and want to shove it in the Democrats’ faces by throwing the election to Romney. That shows a massive ignorance of how change works in this society, as well as a hyperactive fetishized individualism coming out of our consumer capitalist society that privileges these sorts of positions and stands over organizing.


There’s also been a leftier than thou aspect to this, which again is a spawn of our individualistic fetish. Politics have become like a tattoo for many on the left–how you mark yourself means how cool you are. If you argue with Matt Stoller directly about his inane arguments, as I have, he will just call you an Obot. There’s no intellectual engagement from him–he just simply dismisses you as some kind of centrist blind follower of Dear Leader Obama. That kind of non-argument has been a major part of the discussion from a lot of people who provide red meat to the left–Stoller, Greenwald, and others. This is all just silly. There’s a reason socialists and communists worked to reelect FDR in 1936 and 1940, even though they thought he was a sell-out to the capitalists. They knew he was the best hope they had to build the kind of society they wanted and that by running some kind of 3rd party, they would completely alienate the base of people they wanted to organize.


I don’t disagree with Scott when he calls Obama the 3rd most progressive president of the last century, but obviously Obama has been disappointing on a lot of foreign policy and civil liberties issues. Of course, FDR threw the Japanese in concentration camps and LBJ invaded Vietnam. You can certainly make the argument that every single president of the United States has been fundamentally evil and has done terrible things. It’s not a hard argument to make. It’s also an intellectually cheap argument to make. But then intellectually cheap arguments have been par for the course from much of the left in 2012.


To summarize:


1. Change happens outside the election cycles–elections are for institutionalizing the changes you have attempted to make in the past 4 years.


2. Every single U.S. president has blood on his hands. Voting in a presidential election is always a choice between two evils.


3. We need to think less about our own personal moral position in voting. It’s not about you. It’s about the community where you live. Even if you vote for Jill Stein, the blood of Pakistani babies killed in drone strikes is on your hands. You cannot wash off that blood without changing the system–something that 3rd parties have never done. You want clean hands–organize the American public around the issues you care about. It will take the rest of your life. That is the timeline of real change.


4. There actually are lessons from the past on these issues. There are lessons in how to organize. And there are lessons about what third parties do and do not do. When someone can tell me what value a third party has had to pushing the agenda to the left in the last 80 years, I’ll be real interested in hearing it.


5. We need a tougher and smarter left. The self-described left punditry and journalists in 2012 has been individualistic, holier than thou, disorganized, and narcissistic. The real story of the left this year is smart and tough–the Chicago Teachers Union. That’s how you demand and make change. Writing editorials obscuring the differences between Obama and Romney and encouraging well-meaning people to protest vote is worse than worthless–it’s mendacious and serves as a tool for conservatives to continue pushing this nation back to the Gilded Age.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 82_28 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:59 am

I'll do some research tomorrow. But it looks like I am SOL. My ballot is lost in the mail and basically who the fuck knows? It's just lost in the mail. And this provisional shit is clear as mud. But while looking up where I can find some kind of answer, I did find this as my closest or something ballot drop off point even though it's way across the lake. I'd been meaning to stop into Dress Barn as it was:

Image
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby justdrew » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:10 am

82_28 wrote:I'll do some research tomorrow. But it looks like I am SOL. My ballot is lost in the mail and basically who the fuck knows? It's just lost in the mail. And this provisional shit is clear as mud. But while looking up where I can find some kind of answer, I did find this as my closest or something ballot drop off point even though it's way across the lake:

Image


you had a way to print it out?

How to Vote in King County


Voting in King County is done by mail. Voters registered in King County don’t have to do anything special to receive their ballots—they’ll show up automatically in the mail. They’re sent out 20 days before each election, and a little sooner than that for overseas and military voters. But if you don’t receive yours, check that you’re registered with the correct address.


If your address is correct but you didn’t get a ballot, or if it was lost or damaged, fill one out online, then print and submit it.


Once you have your ballot in hand, the next step is to fill it out. If you have already chosen your candidates and know how you’ll vote on measures, follow the instructions on the ballot to correctly mark each choice. If you still need to make a decision, you can find candidate information in a lot of places: local newspapers and blogs are a good source. Also take a look at the Local Voters’ Pamphlet, which is available on the King County Elections page.


Once you’re done, follow the instructions to seal your ballot in its envelope properly. You can drop your ballot off in any [url=http://seattle.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=seattle&cdn=citiestowns&tm=66&f=00&su=p284.13.342.ip_p554.23.342.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.kingcounty.gov/elections/voting/ballotdropboxes.aspx" zt=-o1/XJ]drop box, or mail it. If you choose to mail your ballot, it requires a first-class stamp and must be postmarked by election day.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 82_28 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:22 am

No, I've moved three times this year. Apparently I can't even verify my addy from what I've read for a provisional. Oh well it's in all ya'lls hands now.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:01 am

please people remember our history and vote today...think you got it bad? stuff takes time
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Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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