"Secret History of Freemasons"; Ritual Weirdness

[philipacentaur]

I don't understand the harsh grilling of freemason9, I see that kind of instigation on AbovetopSecret(which is like the retarded cousin of RI)

It's funny you should mention this, because I was just thinking about the diverse group of (sometimes) informative, interesting and intelligent Freemasons at ATS, which is about the only thing that place has going for it.

[IanEye]

i have a sort of funny anectdote about attending the big Masonic "open house" here in Boston a few years back. I think it was called "sword and compasses" day or something.

i am too busy here at work right now, i will try to type it up tonight if people are interested....

[John E. Nemo]

First of all, I never said I hated occultists or Catholics.
I merely consider them misguided, as I don't like the idea of ritual killing, be it "Burning Man" or "Holy Wars.".

Hellpop's unwarranted ad hominem is the type of disinfo smear that would get me banned if I made it, but we let it slide because "some animals are more equal than others".



BTW, Hellpup,
A group of gentlemen get together, dress up in hoods and "ritually murder" each other and I'm Hitler for mentioning it.

Imbecilic much, you cupid stunt?

Do you even know who Albert Pike is?


He was a founder of the Klan, a murderer of Native Americans and a Luciferian and the highest ranking Mason in America, in his day.

Pike is the only Confederate military officer or figure to be honored with a statue in Washington, D.C.
His statue sits in Judiciary Square.

Here's something he wrote showing his views on race....

Views of General ALBERT PIKE, Sovereign Grand Commander, A. & A. Scottish Rite. ALEXANDRIA, Va., 13th September, 1875.

I took my obligations to white men, not to negroes. When I have to accept negroes as brothers or leave Masonry, I shall leave it.

I am interested to keep the Ancient and Accepted Rite uncontaminated, in our country at least, by the leprosy of negro association .

Apparently hating and killing Blacks and Natives is part and parcel of the Morals and Dogma of being a Mason.

EDIT: Here's another racist, evil Mason.

[Horatio Hellpop]

You are a born again aren't you?

[FourthBase]

Ian, a Masonic open house in Boston????
Dude, why didn't you invite me, lol.

I'm not sure if I understand your definition of weird and whether you consider this on a different plane than the christian sacrement in its weirdness and symbolism. what makes it weird, in your context?

I don't consider it a different plane of weirdness, but the cognitive experience of the participants is profoundly different. People (I know) go to mass automatically, uncritically, habitually. They become blind to the weirdness all around them, the weirdness underlying their rituals. I mean, again: "symbolically" (as if that makes it any less weird a concept) eating the flesh and drinking the blood of a savior. Constantly looking at and even bowing before figurines of a tortured, suffocated murder victim who claimed he was God. The people I grew up around never really bothered to dwell on all that much. But freemasons are very deliberately following their rituals, acutely aware of each and every symbological relationship, each and every time they perform. What's being sealed and re-sealed in those rituals is a pact between secret-sharers. Listen to a freemason talk about what kind of worldview freemasonry provides the freemason. It's all a bunch of kitschy pseudo-humanist bullshit. Look at the fucking costumes. Ridiculous. Kitschy, the humanist bullshit and the costumes one would expect some middle-aged pompous farts to invent whimsically. But what doesn't seem very kitschy, at all, are the rituals which expressly deal with the punishments awaiting those who spill the fucking beans, whatever the beans are. I don't catch any kitsch stink there. *Sniff* Yeah, nothing kitschy. Those threats seem very real. And considering the caliber of status and material power of those participating at the levels higher than the basic initiate bottom rung, I don't expect oaths-of-secrecy-not-to-be-betrayed-on-penalty-of-death among those participants to be so "metaphorical" or "juvenile" or "symbological". I expect them, I think quite logically, to carry some serious fucking real world weight.

what makes people in powerful positions participating these rituals different, or similar, to powerful people participating in other religious rituals?

Do you really think Mitt Romney believes anything about Mormonism?

what is the true meaning of the rituals?

I think they're just stages of security clearance, in effect.

(a hurdle to that question is the secrecy of the group makes it hard to really know, eh)

Eh. ABC Syllogism:

A. Intelligent worldly grown men don't believe in bullshit.
B. Remove the bullshit from masonry, and all you have are secrecy oaths.
C. Intelligent worldly grown men swear to secrets with each other.

C = the secret of Freemasonry's secrets.

we can only know what is in the public eye, and people like Pike say that the symbols of freemasonry are meant to deceive the uninitiated, if I understand correctly.

Makes sense to me.

I don't mean to be evasive, but much of the stuff you hear about masons is somewhat dramatized. I was not given the material that you refer to, but I have come across it. There is a good deal of reading material and treatises in lodge libraries. There was no letter about "free will;" they (or anyone else) cannot give me free will, because they never took it. I am a free man.

"You don't mean to be evasive"...

If you are free, then reveal all your Freemason secrets.
Oh...wait...they're not yours?

And what in the fuck are you doing wearing an ornamental apron.
Free men don't wear ornamental aprons.

At least you're not Mormons?
Not all Freemasons were LDS founders.
But IIRC, all LDS founders were Freemasons.

And yes, you're as bad as Mormons, intellectually.
Worse, morally.

Someone earlier asked how a person can follow a path, not knowing the destination. The reason is a deep, intuitive belief that the path has meaning, and that it approximates truth. That's the best that I can put it. It feels right.

Pfffffffffffffffff...........HHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA.

It approximates bullshit. Very, very closely.

It is accepted in freemasonry that we all have free will, and that we do not make literal interpretations of alleghory and ritual. We all must grow, and we have brothers that help should we need it.

You do not make literal interpretations of alleghory and ritual? So praytell, what would happen if you revealed every single Freemason secret that you know, to as wide an audience as possible? Just, what, like, dirty looks at the next meeting?

Are you that naive? No. Right?

You're either a sucker at the bottom or a P.R. plant.
I'll take a guess...sucker at the bottom?
If I'm wrong then you're a P.R. plant.
Choose wisely!

8bit, I'm sure that Freemasonry recruits a buffer zone of upstanding but naive community somebodies, and that the Freemason environment is just pleasing and patriotic and spiritual and fraternal and "challenging" and hallowed to those deluded fools in the buffer zone. But above that buffer zone, beyond the next stage of security clearance, I bet the real world players are separated from the mere somebodies in search of personal affirmation. If it were 300 years ago, I could envision a cadre of Freemasons all -- from top to bottom -- being noble men, freethinkers, nothing corrupt. Today, and for quite some time, I think that scenario is inconceivable. I think today the ultimate function of Freemasonry, especially for those who advance, is one of multiple equivalent gauntlets a material player must clear in order to enter the "circle of trust".

I don't think it serves anyone to listen to a self-proclaimed Freemason.

[OP ED]

I get the feeling that a lot of the people of sects/groups we have issues with are upright moral and good people.

*thelemite shakily wipes sweat from brow*

really?

(actually, I am [we are?] amoralist, but whatever, thanks anyhow...)

[Joe Hillshoist]

A. Intelligent worldly grown men don't believe in bullshit.

Ya reckon?

I'm not exactly intelligent, and I need to grow up, but ritual works and there is more to the world than rationalists reckon.

Doing weird rituals also has a simple function. IT unites people. Thats why secret societies use them, and cultures for that matter. If you've all been through the riual it creates a bond between you.

Thats the whole point of the weird costumes, well perhaps not, perhaps they were the hieight of cool 400 years ago. (Heavens gate mob had a similar thing with uniforms, but cos they were contemporary they didn't look as sillY.) Either way thats the point. Its their thing and no one else does it, and you could criticise it all you like, cos you haven't been there.

I mean to me baseball is insanely boring, but I spent all day yesterday watching cricket.

HH

scar non.

Don't worry about John E, He just OD'd on dogma.

John E

scar non, owsapusheegarn?

[OP ED]

cricket?

I can't even think of anything appropriately insulting to say to that.

[Joe Hillshoist]

You'll just have to try harder.

Can't let the standard on this thread slip.

[OP ED]

Trying. Failed.

...Course, I'm watching some girl, filmed thirty years ago, probably dead now, explaining how to make coasters out of rubber mats or something on PBS...

its 6 am in Detroit, and not a damn thing on. Except those meaningless morning shows. in twenty minutes BBC news is on. I've always been of the opinion that the horrible decline of western civilization sounds much less dire if delivered in some sort of British(ish) accent. Maybe that's just me.

I'm trying to be civil, so much as possible, to everyone here, as it seems I'm a suspect member of at least a couple of "evil" secret clubs.

My family has been freemasons in and around the Ohio River Valley since at least the Civil War, before that, it seems we were largely cherokee(ish).
For us, in that particular small town, its more of a 'mens club' and that's it. There isn't any evil illuminatist conspiracy nearby to join. If there was, I would know.

anywho, none of them ever took it particularly seriously, aside from the oaths, which if taken between people who were Already friends aren't really that serious either....

[Joe Hillshoist]

My grandad was a freemason, but they screwed him over during the depression or something.

He was also a staunch union man.

I have a mate who's right into it all, reckons his grandad was a 33 deg mason, and he was from Scotland.

According to him theres a lot going on, but it sounds so much like the da vinci code you just gotta laugh. (Maybe that was the point of the da vinci code?)

[OP ED]

Yeah, as I said, we're right in it, as much as that means, out there in the middle of nowhere. We tended to actually be literally running the group, so, yeah. No big secrets, aside from mundane things. Although, depending on whom you've spoken to, after you go all the way, you could go out to a bigger lodge, and make bigger friends, or so some people say.

And of course, you hear rumors, about the lodges here or there. But its difficult to know what to believe, I am certain there are criminals in the wider organization, but that they are an exception, and not the rule. I also know that there are a number of independent, semi-powerful individuals who dedicate a portion of their lives to trying to make the world better.

The sword has two edges.

[theeKultleeder]

Hey Joe - thanks for bringing it down to Earth. You are intelligent obviously and I would hazard to guess quite worldly, in your way...

OP ED, I like your points. You're saying you are active in an OTO Lodge? Some lodge or another, right?

The only thing about graded initiatory hierarchies is that they set up the perfect need-to-know chain-of-command. Just ripe for exploitation by the criminal minded.

93
93/93

[antiaristo]

.

OP ED: Disclosure.

I was on the receiving end of a Masonic conspiracy in 1994. It was at a British company called Anglia Television. As a result of that conspiracy I have lived outside of my country these last thirteen years. I've not seen my two daughters since Christmas 1994 when they were six and three.

So I'm not well disposed.
And the deeper I've looked, the more dirt I've found.

But my focus is on the "good Masons".
And that's why I asked Freemason9 those questions about Morals and dogma.


And I'm not questioning your word. You might be lucky. But what if, one day, you are told to do something which you know is wrong, with which you disagree, and which you know will hurt another person? What do you do?

I well remember my Chairman at Anglia. Whenever the company was contemplating any form of investment, he would instruct me. There were a wide variety of situations, but one thing he always said without fail.

"I'm not getting into anything I can't get out of. I don't care what it is, I want to know there's a door marked "Exit"".

Do you have a door?

[8bitagent]

Hey Joe - thanks for bringing it down to Earth. You are intelligent obviously and I would hazard to guess quite worldly, in your way...

OP ED, I like your points. You're saying you are active in an OTO Lodge? Some lodge or another, right?

The only thing about graded initiatory hierarchies is that they set up the perfect need-to-know chain-of-command. Just ripe for exploitation by the criminal minded.

93
93/93

You got it.

And see, I don't buy the kool aid of Crowley being some evil guy...

but like any ideology, it can be used for evil(I dont believe the 9/11 airlines used: 11, 77, 93 and 175 were a coincidence)

I can tell you, there's many California law enforcement and average people who would classify elements of the California area OTO a criminal gang, as theres been a number of killings, drug outfits, kidnappings, violence, etc associated with the California OTO.

So just like the Masonic P2 lodge in Italy, there can always be strong elements of widely recognized esoteric orders that do engage in some very bad things that is not conspiracy theory at all.