Cloverfield

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Apologies for this IE-HMW interpersonal dialogue.
We had a big misunderstanding weeks ago which has snowballed
and needs to be sorted out.
But if read, you'll find out that Tom Stoppard is a MI6 spook.

.....

What mask? I study what concerns me and share. Period.

I'm not a "fundamentalist." I'm just focused and on mission. I've researched to find out what is truthful what is deception. And I stick by what I know.

Not that I'm on their level, but would you call Jesus, Ghandi, and Martin Luther King "fundamentalists" who are "wearing masks" and insist that their view of the world was "dehumanizing?".

.....
I don’t think Mr. Freitas is on the level of Jesus, Gandhi, or MLK, but I would put him in their company a lot sooner than I would you or me. The idea that you would try to associate your actions on this board in the company of those individuals says a lot.

I actually wrote that I wasn't like those three icons because I was trying to make the point that working towards a goal was not "zealous fundamentalism."
But from your other comments I think I see where your antagonism towards me comes from, a misunderstanding on my part of what you meant in a confusing post of yours.

You aren't getting that when I point at the militarist shadow it confirms what is light, what power does not want us to have.

That is like saying, “hey, I work out my biceps everyday, this confirms my triceps.” This is true, but it does not mean you are giving your triceps a work out, and when others ask for their turn on the biceps machine, you get really pissy.

I have said it before and I will say it again, you are the guy who comes to the gym everyday and monopolizes two machines, not letting anyone else use them. This annoys people who come to the gym and want to spend a little bit of time on every machine for a well rounded work out, and in the end you are cheating yourself in the bargain.

Reducing a discussion board to a playground spat with "you're hogging the ball" only now makes sense to me as I realize that weeks ago you made a post about keyword hijacking that seemed to me to be derisive, mocking, and, even worse, intentionally muddling. I'm used to personal attacks but intentionally muddling perceptions is hostile to the whole board.

Apparently, you were serious and affirming but your presentation was rather 'arty' and satirical, just your sometime style, and confused the hell out of me.
Since I've been attacked over the KH issue repeatedly I took your presentation to be hostile.

But I noticed that you have a strong understanding of art and symbols and wondered what your agenda was since this episode didn't jibe with your other postings.
But you carried your grudge and started telling me to 'fuck off' as if by pointing at scientific fascism I was the problem.

Wasn't this kerfuffle all based on that misunderstanding on my part of your post about KH in pornography and "stealing your target's song?"

Can we get past that misunderstanding?

I'm not keeping anyone from "using the gym" but your intentions of a "well-rounded workout" sound like you come here to be amused.

I don't. I come here to learn and share with bright and, sometimes, like-minded people who are also anti-fascist and pro-peace and justice.

Hugh Manatee Wins comes here and places Terry Gilliam directly in the company of James Jesus Angleton and the Dulles Brothers.
.....
When Hugh Manatee Wins comes here and lumps an artist like Gilliam in with actual figures in the CIA like Angleton, HMW is lowering Gilliam to a position that I feel he does not deserve to be placed, and I will not hesitate to call him out for this and I will feel no need to pay the masked man any respect when I do.

Woa. Another big misunderstanding but now on your part.
I've never said that Terry Gilliam was a psy-ops mind-farker.

Bet you're referring to my critique of 1985's movie, 'Brazil.'

The REAL spook working on 'Brazil' was the OTHER screenwriter, Tom Stoppard. I've researched Tom Stoppard.
Tom Stoppard is a part of the CIA-MI6 old covert Ministry of Culture called
the Congress for Cultural Freedom and he used Terry Gilliam as a credibility prop, a common technique in marketing psy-ops.

So don't mistake dupes for perps. I don't. They are interwoven but most perps are way up the food chain to the 'deciders' who greenlight projects that others just earn their pay doing while being careerists.

I'm trying to lineate the details that make psy-ops media happen covertly with so much help from unwitting assets. And most are totally unwitting.

There are more spooks at the 'decider' and script-writing level than elsewhere, I think.

I submit that if:

1) a masked one comes on here and trashes a real human being – then, in response:
2) a second mask comes on and in harsh words scornfully denounces the first mask’s actions, that is a reaction to the first mask.

I come on here in my IanEye mask and identify Hugh as a coward and a bully.
.....

I "trash" propagandists and psy-ops mind-farkers but mainly THEIR PRODUCTS which make boodles of money.
This makes me a target of the spooks and industry thugs and that is not an act of cowardice in case you know anything about independent investigators who go after the CIA and its control systems.

If Hugh pointed out works of art that he enjoys in a positive light as much as he trashes other works of art that would be reflected in his mask.

I see a house on fire and I'm not stopping to sniff the roses. That's what other people are doing while the world burns. I'm trying to get them to see a covert psy-ops heat and recognize the smell of smoke in their media.

I tried in a more cordial manner to approach Hugh in the past and say, “hey you sure are good at this psy-ops machine but I think I would like a turn on it” and Hugh wasn’t very generous with the machine.

We had a very big misunderstanding as I lined out above.
Please accept my apologies for not understanding your 'arty' presentation weeks ago which seemed like a sophisticated attack. Ok?

Hugh Manatee Wins covets the psy-ops machine, it is his baby.

Guess what Hugh? It isn’t. And you do not respond to those who confront you in a civil fashion, so go fuck yourself.

Exactly the opposite. I'm trying to SHARE "the psy-ops machine' by bringing up the topic. I've researched it long and hard and if this offputting to others, so be it.
The issue is Nazi-ism, not our board egos or "masks."

Please recognize how your approach to me weeks ago was not just confusing but seemed malevalent and hostile. I misunderstood your intent because of your "mask."
This is why there are those damned emoticons, to prevent misunderstandings due to missing the 'wink-wink' eyebrow clues in a comment.

Please, no more masks and interpersonal misunderstandings eating up bandwith, ok?
You were a 'friend.' I mistook you for a 'foe' due to your ambiguous presentation and my history here as a target.

Let's go back to being 'on the same side.' Ok?
You and I understand art. Let's understand each other.

More kids are about to be recruited by the SOTU mask into military hell.
The military is about to up their attacks on the internet.
What can we do about that?

[sunny]

Hugh, you keep doing what you're doing-I for one really appreciate all your efforts.

However, I do think some of your examples are over the top. For instance, Chuck and Larry, or whatever KH Sicko. This might work for the tiny fraction of Americans who saw C & L, and I can almost guarantee you that those self same Americans paid no attention to Sicko whatsoever anyway. Sicko was widely seen and influential even in the mainstream press. No one who talked about Sicko tried to divert the attention of people interested in it onto C & L. Almost no one who took Sicko seriously has even seen C & L I can a assure you.

Mr. Limpet is another such example of an obscure project that would have no effect at all on whether people today are capable of researching the subject you say it was trying to obscure.

I can readily believe that high-budget, high profile projects like National Treasure 2 were conceived as well as marketed for psy-ops purposes. I can also readily believe that nearly all high budget, high profile Hollywood product is at the very least geared to the militarization of society and toward military recruitment. The US is a quasi Fascist State and as has been pointed out, fascism is a male-centric cult at bottom. Reinforcing macho stereotypes and trying to arrest and destroy 'feminine' ideals of peace and agape would of necessity be at the top of their 'to do' list.

But many, many Hollywood projects are just what they seem-crass commercialism that makes no pretense of art or even relevance. Sometimes a crap movie is just a crap movie.

[streeb]

The REAL spook working on 'Brazil' was the OTHER screenwriter, Tom Stoppard. I've researched Tom Stoppard.
Tom Stoppard is a part of the CIA-MI6 old covert Ministry of Culture called
the Congress for Cultural Freedom and he used Terry Gilliam as a credibility prop, a common technique in marketing psy-ops.

So don't mistake dupes for perps.

Wow. Is it possible to get a rebuttal from MI6 spook Tom Stoppard? That'd be nice.

Good to know that Terry Gilliam is just a hapless idiot.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

.....
Sicko was widely seen and influential even in the mainstream press. No one who talked about Sicko tried to divert the attention of people interested in it onto C & L. Almost no one who took Sicko seriously has even seen C & L I can a assure you.

Almost everyone has seen 'Chuck and Larry' because they saw the poster and ads even though they didn't buy the ticket and stare for 90 minutes.

That's how movies work as psy-ops for the greatest numbers, through the poster image, title, and advertising themes, and finally, the rental release and its advertising and sitting on the shelf to be scanned everytime you look for something to watch at the store.

That's LOTS of exposure without buying the ticket and watching the whole movie.

Theaters have poster galleries for coming attractions that you see even when you're attending another movie.

There were two posters for 'Chuck and Larry.'
The worst one showed one of them putting the proverbial wedding cake in the other's mouth with white frosting on the side of his mouth that looked kinda like...well, you know.

Negative framing of firemen has been on the backburner ever since their oral histories about witnessing the WTC blowing up were finally released by a court in August 2005.
Those Rescuing American Heroes that serve as gateway moral models to the military suddenly became a liability to the cover story of 9/11.

So when Michael Moore took them to Cuba for healthcare and highlighted both the EPA cover-up of the WTC toxicity cloud AND the dreadful American healthcare system AND the favorable comparison with eeeevil commie Cuba...the gloves came off and firemen got discredited as oafish liars stealing healthcare with sexual immorality.

The psy-ops doesn't get much darker than that.

Mr. Limpet is another such example of an obscure project that would have no effect at all on whether people today are capable of researching the subject you say it was trying to obscure.

Context. 1962 disaster. 1964 movie for kids as the CIA found it had a pile of things to cover-up on the way into the Vietnam War and an increase in recruiting, just like now.

I can readily believe that high-budget, high profile projects like National Treasure 2 were conceived as well as marketed for psy-ops purposes. I can also readily believe that nearly all high budget, high profile Hollywood product is at the very least geared to the militarization of society and toward military recruitment. The US is a quasi Fascist State and as has been pointed out, fascism is a male-centric cult at bottom. Reinforcing macho stereotypes and trying to arrest and destroy 'feminine' ideals of peace and agape would of necessity be at the top of their 'to do' list.

But many, many Hollywood projects are just what they seem-crass commercialism that makes no pretense of art or even relevance. Sometimes a crap movie is just a crap movie.

As the need to recruit and cover-up 'hostile information' increases, the eyeballs of youth get dominated more and more by USG psy-ops towards those ends.

Even opportunistic "crap movies" use the psy-ops model as their template-
ugly stereotypes, violence desensitization, etc.
That's how leaders get unwitting followers for what the Pentagon calls "force magnification."[/quote]

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

The REAL spook working on 'Brazil' was the OTHER screenwriter, Tom Stoppard. I've researched Tom Stoppard.
Tom Stoppard is a part of the CIA-MI6 old covert Ministry of Culture called
the Congress for Cultural Freedom and he used Terry Gilliam as a credibility prop, a common technique in marketing psy-ops.

So don't mistake dupes for perps.

Wow. Is it possible to get a rebuttal from MI6 spook Tom Stoppard? That'd be nice.[/quote]

What does that mean? Don't talk about anyone not on the board?

Good to know that Terry Gilliam is just a hapless idiot.

I didn't say that. You are inferring what I didn't imply.

I DO say that very few in the movie industry know that it is mainly a psy-ops factory of militarist propaganda and cover-up counterpropaganda.

Why else would Denzel Washington play the 'American Gangster' and falsely ascribe the CIA's shipping heroin to the US from Vietnam in soldier's coffins and bodies...to an eeevil black Harlem gangster, just like after Alfred McCoy's 1972 book, The Politics of Heroin' was followed by the 1973 James Bond movie also ascribing heroin smuggling to eeevil neeegroes?

Denzel is probably just a careerist and made boodles of bucks making that well-crafted lie.
I doubt Denzel knows this cover-up history. If he does, fuck him, right?

'Cloverfield's' poster IS the message.

[sunny]

Indeed Hugh. I enjoyed AG as entertainment (mainly because I enjoy looking at and thinking about Russell Crowe ) but I could not get over how the CIA was totally left out of the heroin-in-dead-soldiers-coffins equation.

Right now there is much talk about DEA agents suing the studio because they say it harmed their "reputation". I say Harlem Drug Lords should sue the movie for placing all the blame on them.

[sunny]

Hugh:

'Cloverfield's' poster IS the message.

Then the message is: Your Liberty is Decapitated.

True, that.

[streeb]

What does that mean? Don't talk about anyone not on the board?

No, it means that more evidence is required that Tom Stoppard is a spook. You want me to just take your word?

Quote:
Good to know that Terry Gilliam is just a hapless idiot.


I didn't say that. You are inferring what I didn't imply.

You said Gilliam is a "dupe" who was "used". Funnily enough, one of his characters in Monty Python and the Holy Grail is called "Patsy".

Go nuts with that one.

Look Hugh, I think you're bang on with 'Cloverfield's poster is the message', but I think the way you assign a binary universe of spooks and dupes to everyone and everything undermines your case, badly.

Prove to us that Tom Stoppard is a paid agent of MI6, please, and that Brazil was one of his Ops.

(edited to unfuck up my coding)

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Look Hugh, I think you're bang on with 'Cloverfield's poster is the message', but I think the way you assign a binary universe of spooks and dupes to everyone and everything undermines your case, badly.

Prove to us that Tom Stoppard is a paid agent of MI6, please, and that Brazil was one of his Ops.

Er, I don't want to go into every single movie mentioned here and get too far from 'Cloverfield' so 'Brazil' and Stoppard deserve their own threads.

I only mentioned Stoppard here to answer a charge from IanEye over a misunderstanding he associated with Terry Gilliam, the best known name. (This again shows how valuable mnemonics and the name game is.)

You can search up Stoppard's bio and find his national background, 1964 Ford Foundation grant, and Cold War work with the British government and exiles from the Iron Curtain that spells out CIA-MI6 "Congress for Cultural Freedom."

Then look at the scripts he's worked on. I have.

'Brazil' was a recycling of the 1977 sci-fi novel by Ron Goulart called 'Nemo' that was the source for not just 'Brazil' but also 'Forrest Gump' and Disney's 'Finding Nemo.'

Goulart's 1977 'Nemo' was itself a back-up decoy for just-exposed and potentially-exposed CIA ops in Brazil and MK-ULTRA. Since some things did not get exposed in Senate hearings (Langley says "whew"), the sci-fi novel stayed obscure and was then used for 'parts' in 1985 when new cover-ups required it.

This psy-ops script history is deep and wide.
'Cloverfield' is quite simplistic by comparison. "BE AFRAID. They got NYC!"

[orz]

the Congress for Cultural Freedom and he used Terry Gilliam as a credibility prop, a common technique in marketing psy-ops.

Even if this is true which it probably isn't, it DOESN'T MATTER. The movie Brazil is a great work of art, and if 'they' wasted time putting 'psyops' in it then great, because they totally failed.

Brazil will be remembered as a great, 100% pro-human, anti-Control work of cinema long after you and your tiresome internet conspiracy theory fan-fiction are dead and gone.

Have you read "The Battle of Brazil"? You should do, and you should refrain from talking about the film until you have. It (of course) makes a mockery of your inane 'theories' on the film, but I'm sure you can ignore all the masses of contradictory evidence and cherry pick a few choice paragraphs somewhere in their to 'support' your piffle.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Indeed Hugh. I enjoyed AG as entertainment (mainly because I enjoy looking at and thinking about Russell Crowe ) but I could not get over how the CIA was totally left out of the heroin-in-dead-soldiers-coffins equation.

I think there was something about that in The Boys from Company C, btw.

Funny how many ex South Vietnam miltiary brass are involved in the heroin business in melbourne too.

Sunny, you like Russell Crowe? he's a twit, lives about 150 km south of hre when he's in Oz. But I spose he deserves credit for what he and his yuppie mate did after taking over the South Sydney Rabbitohs Rugby League Club. They removed the pokies(poker/slot machines from the club), a major source of revenue for a struggling club. That took guts and vision, and showed they cared enough about their members to not subject them to addictive poverty inducing brain destroyers.

That alone has raised Russell Crowe in my esteem, and won him some respect. He deserves kudos for that. NSW leagues (Rugby league) clubs are renowned for their pokies and they destroy lives.

Also if you haven't seen Romper Stomper, his first movie watch it. Its intense, a "tour de force" although thats become a cliche. And about the area I grew up in, in the time I grew up there.

BTW His cousins Martin and Jeff are two of the best cricketers NZ has ever produced.

[sunny]

Hey Joe. Yes, I absolutely adore ole Rusty. I like that he's a first class brawler, and I loved his cocky perp walk after the notorious phone throwing incident, which I found quite funny. Sue me, I love a real bloke.

But mostly I love him as an actor. I first noticed him in Romper Stomper, which was actually his third movie. I knew then he'd be major, it was just one of those "wow" performances. He's had an incredibly interesting and diverse career. His sensitive performance as a gay plumber in The Sum of Us is not to be missed. And say what you will about his egomania, but he leaves it at the door when he goes to work. His humble and sweetly tender perf in Cinderella Man proves that. His work in 3:10 to Yuma made me swoon.

I look forward to all his work.

[antiaristo]

Sunny, you like Russell Crowe? he's a twit, lives about 150 km south of hre when he's in Oz. But I spose he deserves credit for what he and his yuppie mate did after taking over the South Sydney Rabbitohs Rugby League Club. They removed the pokies(poker/slot machines from the club), a major source of revenue for a struggling club. That took guts and vision, and showed they cared enough about their members to not subject them to addictive poverty inducing brain destroyers.

That alone has raised Russell Crowe in my esteem, and won him some respect. He deserves kudos for that. NSW leagues (Rugby league) clubs are renowned for their pokies and they destroy lives.

Also if you haven't seen Romper Stomper, his first movie watch it. Its intense, a "tour de force" although thats become a cliche. And about the area I grew up in, in the time I grew up there.

BTW His cousins Martin and Jeff are two of the best cricketers NZ has ever produced.

Joe, I never made the connection.

Martin Crowe was a superb batsman.

Outstanding band of brothers.

What's the mood in Oz about sledging?
Is the tide going to turn?

Sorry - return to topic.

Ben Fairhall sees the occult in this movie:

http://ben-fairhall.blogspot.com/

[bubblefunk]

"Chuck and Larry" is one of the top 5 renting movies right now and is being heavily pushed by the rental chains, so that "small fraction" has increased! Don't let a film's performance in theaters fool you, rentals are where the money and influence are. Not that I see "Chuck" as a lasting hit, even in rental terms.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Sunny I have been chased by skinheads through some of those alleys and streets in Romper Stomper, (and by Vietneamese for that matter), one of my best mates was one of them back then. He was a neo nazi skin, but he's Jewish and from a family that survived the holocaust. We all do dumb things when we are young tho.

I didn't know it was Rusty's third film tho.

As I said, his (and Warwick fairfax's) decision to remove the poker machines from SSLC was truly worthy of respect.

anti

I take it you are up on the Andrew Symonds/Harbajan Singh thing.

Most people here think it was a bit of a wus act on the part of the aussies. If you can't take it don't dish it out and all that, and Harbajan has had the wood on Ricky Ponting all summer, so most of us are a bit cynical about it all.

But sledging will not end. It a part of the game these days, (like it or not) and lets face it, if you allow yourself to get distracted that easily then what are you doing playing international sport. To be honest sledging seems really stupid to me. Any time an opponent of mine has done it to me they have regretted it, and I don't do it cos just about every time I have its come back to bite me on the backside.

Anyway back to the topic.

There is one thing about Cloverfield I've wondered about, that has nothing to do with the politics. There is a bit of controversy about the film, about the refs to 911 (ok blatent cashing in on its images then) but considering the trauma the event itself sparked does anyone think the film, instead of making that worse, is actually a way of dealing with it and "moving on"?