RIP Sydney Pollack

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Re: Americans know Kent State is iconic murder of anti-war

Postby Jeff » Thu May 29, 2008 6:57 am

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Get it now? "Four deaths" + "Alice Kraus" is a very strong mirror of what is known as Kent State which was the USG killing civilians over the Vietnam War, just like MLK.


Jesus, Hugh. Did you miss

even if Grisham/Pollack chose the name to evoke an association, it was a sympathetic association, and a recalling to mind of a moment in history. Has Kent State been erased from memory by "The Firm"? Have people forgotten Allison Krause because of the fictional "Alice Kraus"? If no, then nothing has been "hijacked" except another thread.
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Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu May 29, 2008 6:59 am

Besides this name being one of "four deaths," there are other 1960s murder cues like the Jackie-O look-alike (JFK murder) plus I didn't even mention that the first camera shot of Tom Cruise arriving in Memphis shows the word "Ambassador" on a bridge, like the site of the CIA's murder of RFK, the Ambassador Hotel in LA.


Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, CSNY album cover, etcetera, etcetera, song lists, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, complete lyrics of 'Ohio', etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, Hershey bar wrapping-paper, etcetera, etcetera, oops, nearly forgot the kitchen sink, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

I'm now going to quote myself, because life's too short:

It is completely wacky free-association. It is, literally, insane. It's like being on an unproductively manic "roll" and imagining that the newspaper headlines are addressed to you personally. It is a terrible waste of human spirit and energy.


PS What time is it in your part of the world, Hugh? 3:00 am? 5:00 am?
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Robau =StarTrek '09 Captain name, was terrorist in Iron Man

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu May 29, 2008 8:52 am

This has nothing to do with Sydney Pollack but ASoF wants a response...

Attack Ships on Fire wrote:.....
Hugh, do you see any evidence of KWH associated with the name "Robau" and correlated in any way to any one particular person/place/thing associated with the Middle East, and/or that it should have any impact in what you perceive as KWH in the timeframe of one year from now?

I'd like to put Hugh's theories to the test by looking forward in time instead of looking into the past. I'll give my background as to why I'm presenting this name and timeframe after I listen to Hugh's response, if he so chooses to take up my challenge.


I see that the viral marketing device known to some as the next Star Trek movie has a "Pakistani actor of American descent" named Faran Tahir who played a terrorist in 'Iron Man' and is now playing a star ship Captain named "Rabau."

For American kids this actor will be remembered as a terrorist even in Star Trek.
Role branding works.

It seems his Pakistani heritage is being pushed forward in marketing so this may also be related to current efforts to both recruit immigrants as informers and win the hearts and minds of youth in that part of the world by exploiting their parasocial interaction with 'one of their kind' in a big USA-Hollywood vehicle.

Meanwhile, American kids remember the terrorist who opposed Iron Man.
Dual functionality.

Image

http://www.trekunited.com/news/content/view/428/80
Editorial: ST09 moving beyond the stereotypes

16 March 2008 - It was recently announced that American actor Faran Tahir has been cast as a captain of a Starfleet vessel in the new Star Trek film. I say American actor because that’s what he is – he’s an American man of Pakistani descent. The description given to him by Trekmovie.com states he’s a Pakistani actor. (I sigh and grumble.) I’d like to address this as it is relevant to Star Trek and what it stands for and has always stood for.
.....
Faran Tahir talks Federation Captain, er, Captain Robau

16 April 2008 - Several months ago we learned of a role in Star Trek (2009) named "Federation Captain." And more recently we learned that the role would be filled by Pakistani-American actor Faran Tahir, who you can catch in two weeks in Iron Man, and now we know a little more about Federation Captain, specifically that his name is Robau.


Besides the Pakistani parasocial interaction angle, there are two people named "Rabau" in real life who have interesting possibilities for name-hijacking in order to either obscure entirely OR to apply subliminal framing.

Given that this actor was a terrorist in 'Iron Man' this is very likely negative framing for American audiences.

The two people who could be negatively framed named "Rabau" I note at this absurdly late hour (someone shut me up) are a Cuban official (strong possibility) and an NBC television reporter who covers a part of Florida known for election fraud, West Palm Beach (less likely but still). Hey, you know Florida election fraud is gonna happen again in November 2008.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/WPTV-(TV)
This Dori Rabau has already done stories about homeless veterans so she could be trouble after the fraudulant installation of McCain.

But Cuba is still the GOP's enemy despite Castro stepping down.
I think the Cuban official is the most likely target of name-hijacking for subliminal negative framing attached to a guy who has played a terrorist in 'Iron Man.'

1) Antonio Mazón Robau is a Cuban cultural director specializing in film and film festivals.
http://www.cubaxp.com/modules/news/article-1060.html

He has been the president of the Cuban Cinema Press Association.
http://www.radiohc.org/Distributions/Radio_Havana_English/.2001/2001_jan/Radio_Havana_Cuba-09_January_2001

So he might have something to say about an upcoming film that America's youth shouldn't hear or another book.
http://www.bookfinder.com/author/antonio-mazon-robau/

Or maybe Michael Moore was in touch with him when he made 'Sicko' and brought 9/11 firemen to Cuba to get healthcare they couldn't get in the US.
This White House-hated American film maker would've had contact with the man who functions as Cuba's minister of film. That's just a guess.

Why am I still up? Good night.
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Postby orz » Thu May 29, 2008 9:03 am

It is completely wacky free-association. It is, literally, insane. It's like being on an unproductively manic "roll" and imagining that the newspaper headlines are addressed to you personally. It is a terrible waste of human spirit and energy.


And why do you think it's clever bolding bits of that song like it's some great insight? The song is a protest song overtly about Kent State!
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Postby stefano » Thu May 29, 2008 9:10 am

orz wrote:
When he comes up with an example of "keyword hijacking" that I find feasible and convincing I will believe in it and agree with it, but this hasn't really happened yet.


The Nacho Libre one made immediate sense to me. It's just such a random title and idea for a film... For the rest I'm also pretty skeptical. I do think the CIA keeps a close eye on Hollywood and pushes its agenda through films, but I don't think it often goes to telling people what to call their characters (too many people that need to be pressured). I think that if the CIA left Hollywood completely alone, all other things being equal, the movies produced wouldn't be radically different from what we're seeing now. Thank the concept of 'test audiences' for that.
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Re: Americans know Kent State is iconic murder of anti-war

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu May 29, 2008 9:14 am

Jeff wrote:
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Get it now? "Four deaths" + "Alice Kraus" is a very strong mirror of what is known as Kent State which was the USG killing civilians over the Vietnam War, just like MLK.


Jesus, Hugh. Did you miss

even if Grisham/Pollack chose the name to evoke an association, it was a sympathetic association, and a recalling to mind of a moment in history.

Hunh? How did you decide this subtle (it is subtle) reference to Kent State was intended as a sympathetic association, just a tribute... dropped into a movie out of nowhere?
That REALLY doesn't make any sense.

The rationale I posited makes complete sense.
And I've found the same inoculation theme with secondary triggers tickling a primary message in scores of psy-ops films, not just this one.

Fer pete's sake, I've found the cognitive science that describes this and from Charles Osgood, one of the CIA's MKULTRA specialists!

SCIENCE TEXTS back me up. I didn't make up "inoculation" and "interference" and "retroactive inhibition." This is REAL cognitive science right out of the books!

Am I posting in invisible ink when I point at the science? Seems so, Jeff.

Here's the way to look at these little tiny subtle hints all leading to the same place-
You know how you can't hold up a weight with a thin hair that you can hardly even see?
But you CAN hold up a weight with a number of hairs that you can still hardly even see.

This is the way to do subliminal cueing that influences subsequent audience attitudess but without the audience realizing they've been influenced.

If you look right at one thin hair, there's nothing there.
But those secondary thin hairs are still tied on to the central primary weight.
And if you look closely and find lots of thin hairs all tied to the same primary weight, this is intentional, not coincidence.

This is how subliminal psy-ops works in movies using just the thin hairs of keywords framed in different contexts (displacement) so your critical attention sees the decoy narrative while your subconscious takes in the subliminal framing.

It's like showing people a painting which they stare at but you've snuck your message into the frame around the painting and it sneaks right into their brains with no resistance.

Parafoveal priming in your vision is how product placement outside the center of attention on a movie screen works in a similiar manner.
That which is outside of your center of vision is not processed with your brain's critical thinking filters which - counterintuitively - do have biases screening things out. So the stuff you don't look right and see clearly but stays on the margins of perception is what gets into your head the most effectively.

Wait! Reread that last sentence. That's the key to subliminal psy-ops.

So the 'parafoveal priming' effect for your mind is in subtle use of keywords and thematic hints and positive framing of semantic elements of government cover-ups plus negative framing of semantic elements of whistleblowers exposing scandals.

Has Kent State been erased from memory by "The Firm"?

That's not the purpose of barely evoking it in the movie. For some, it will be diminished.
For who? For youngsters, they get pre-biased to think it is Tom Cruise fiction.
For people who know Kent State, the slight memory tickle helps reinforce the MLK central theme.

Have people forgotten Allison Krause because of the fictional "Alice Kraus"?/quote]
That's not the purpose of barely evoking it in the movie. For some, it will be diminished.
For who? For youngsters, they've been pre-biased to think she is Tom Cruise fiction.
For people who know Kent State, the slight memory tickle helps reinforce the MLK central theme.

If no, then nothing has been "hijacked" except another thread.

I respond to other people's desire to discuss. And some want to know how a movie works on the mind and on culture.

Gee, your pal Pan keeps claiming that I'm "biased."

But he suggests that the science of marketing and psy-ops and PR and campaigning that is ALL about creating bias...only happens to me...and not the info-vulnerable general public and youth?

The CIA which specializes in psy-ops and disinfo and media doesn't, according to Pan, use the basic cognitive science for counterpropaganda that I, a mere well-read civilian, have found?

C'mon. That would not make sense. I'm bright but I don't have decades of Ivy League state-of-the-science research and resources and billions of dollars to figure this out.

Hate to say it, but not every body can hold multiple layers of a semantic construct in their minds at once. Some reading this will never understand it.
And this is how the subliminal remains subliminal.

Once you know the science, methods, means, motive, opportunity, etc....it ain't subliminal anymore. It's overt. And obvious.

I thought my post explaining the cues for "MLK" and the cues for "1960s/Vietnam War murder" was pretty good. Read it a few times.
And remember my analogy about thin almost ALMOST invisible hairs all tied on to the same center weight to hold it up.
Last edited by Hugh Manatee Wins on Thu May 29, 2008 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby orz » Thu May 29, 2008 9:22 am

Am I posting in invisible ink

Say, that gives me a great idea for a new feature on the board...
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Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu May 29, 2008 9:34 am

HMW, like thousands of other people from Guy Debord to Marshall McLuhan to [too many living writers to list], has noticed that moving images are a great source of manipulative power, that this power sometimes operates very subtly, and that its effects are often destructive. So far, so good.

But then Hugh's argument goes completely fucking haywire. Because it's not subtle to insert the name "Alice Kraus" into a 1993 movie and expect people to associate it with Allison Krause (1951 - 1970), and then expect this deeply-unlikely association to conjure up (somehow) an aversion to Ms. Krause personally/ a dislike for student liberals in general / a complete lack of interest in recent history / a greater respect for the CIA / a keen desire to vote Republican / whatever the hell Hugh thinks The Plan actually is.

"Keyword-hijacking"..."Name-hijacking"... Not only does Hugh fail to demonstrate that these high jinks are in fact taking place; he has never once explained how the process is supposed to function.

"Call her Alice Kraus and everyone will associate her subliminally with Allison Krause, and then, heh-heh, those popcorn-munching suckers will forget Kent State and love the CIA!" Anyone foolish enough to work that way would not be demonstrating subtlety or sophistication; he would be wasting his time and the Agency's money. He would be as much use to the CIA as a full-time counter of leaves on trees.

(Note to Hugh: I actually think you're a decent soul, and clearly you mean what you say, but please: give it a rest, for your own sake first and foremost. What you're saying is senseless. You are away with the fairies, man.)
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Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu May 29, 2008 9:57 am

MacCruiskeen wrote:.....
Because it's not subtle to insert the name "Alice Kraus" into a 1993 movie and expect people to associate it with Allison Krause (1951 - 1970), and then expect this deeply-unlikely association to conjure up (somehow) an aversion to Ms. Krause personally/ a dislike for student liberals in general / a complete lack of interest in recent history / a greater respect for the CIA / a keen desire to vote Republican / whatever the hell Hugh thinks The Plan actually is.


You have missed the central theme there so I'll repeat it again in case it helps-
The main goal of the movie is covering up that the FBI killed Martin Luther King.
So a number of cues to just barely evoke "1960s/USG murder" are used to massage this theme gently into the audience's subliminal zone where the good and bad guys can be reversed just the way the CIA wants them but without popping this scheme right out into obvious world which might make you go "Aha! Bastards!"

Anyone foolish enough to work this way would not be demonstrating subtlety or sophistication; he would be wasting his time and the Agency's money. He would be as much use to the CIA as a full-time counter of leaves on trees.


This is S.O.P. in the perception management fields from military psy-ops to selling cigarettes to youth while pretending to make an anti-smoking advert.

And Hugh has never once explained how this mechanism is supposed to work.


If you read my last few posts in this thread again (I've edited in a thing or two) and maybe even search up some of the cognitive science terms (inoculation theory, interference theory, mutual exclusivity, subliminal framing, parasocial interaction, etc.), this may click.

Especially note my analogy about almost invisible hairs being able to hold up an object while looking like nothing is there. But looking closely you can see they're all tied to a central object and thus not a random arrangement or coincidence.

Knowing what the central theme is helps to find the tiny subliminal hairs holding it up.
That's where knowing what the big CIA scandals are and the keywords involved comes in handy. I know those things and can spot'em in a movie and look around to see if there are more hairs tied onto the same theme and this confirms the psy-ops message.
No, they are not always there. And some are bad jobs but jobs nonetheless. Some are amazing and I stand in awe at the malevalent craftsmanship, like a really good lie.

(Note to Hugh: I actually think you're a decent soul, and clearly you mean what you say, but please: give it a rest, for your own sake first and foremost. What you're saying is senseless. You are away with the fairies, man.)


Thanks for your goodwill and concern but this cognitive science stuff really is science albeit not easy to grasp and hang on to where one is used to holding a box of popcorn and a significant other's knee.
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Postby stefano » Thu May 29, 2008 10:15 am

MacCruiskeen wrote:Anyone foolish enough to work that way would not be demonstrating subtlety or sophistication; he would be wasting his time and the Agency's money.


Keep in mind the US Federal Government aims to waste as much taxpayer money as poss, that's kind of what they do. It's very plausible that a Republican-connected Baptist campaign donor owns a company called 'Sublimina' and successfully won a contract worth hundreds of millions to occasionally drop a reference in a movie.

I've also thought that doing this work would be boring as hell, though, for the keen bean who joined the CIA for the intrigue.
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Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu May 29, 2008 10:32 am

Let's grant the incredible for the sake of argument: there are in fact CIA teams engaged full-time in HughManatean leaf-counting operations, ie. "keyword-hijacking" and "name-hijacking". They're hard at work in Hollywood as we speak, chained to their desks, weeping and gnashing their teeth, trying to think up ways of associating Noam Chomsky with Satan, and wondering if "G. Zuss-Kreiss" is maybe a bit too obvious a name for the saviour of the West in Wolfgang Petersen's next blockbuster.

The first point is, stefano: It doesn't work. Nobody associates Alice Kraus with Allison Krause. Nobody in the whole wide world. Nobody ever has and nobody ever will, except Hugh Manatee Wins (who is a prisoner of Hollywood if anyone is; as he just admitted, he's currently working his way through Sydney Pollack's entire oeuvre again.)

The second point is: Even if people did make those wacky associations, it wouldn't matter in the slightest. It would change precisely nothing.

The CIA wastes taxpayers' money (and laundered drug-money) in much more interesting ways than that.
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Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu May 29, 2008 10:45 am

Hey, Jeff has just made this discussion moot by making it against his rules. Go figure.
As if I was discussing this with myself.

MacCruiskeen wrote:.....
The first point is, stefano: It doesn't work. Nobody associates Alice Kraus with Allison Krause. Nobody in the whole wide world.

But the novel came out right after the 20th anniversary of Kent State when the MSM noted this with a look back and reminded folks in 1990. Not today.
And books were coming out to keep the memory a bit warm, not dead cold.

That's the timing context. People better remember recent things so the memory news cycle is used as things come round.

And -ahem - Jeff says we can't talk about this anymore. Go figure.
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Postby stefano » Thu May 29, 2008 10:55 am

Oh, we can finish this little thread, surely?

You're right, MacCruiskeen, I didn't actually think it works like that (apart from Nacho Libre - I'd sooner believe that was a black op than believe that a group of people got together and decided it would be a good movie). Just meant that 'they wouldn't do that - that would be a waste of money!' isn't a proper counterargument.
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Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu May 29, 2008 11:23 am

And -ahem - Jeff says we can't talk about this anymore. Go figure.


No he doesn't, Hugh. Read Jeff's posts again.

Anyway, we're not talking about it. As usual, you are holding a dialogue with yourself while free-associating on anything you happen to overhear, from me or from Jeff or from anyone else. It's all grist to your mill, Hugh. Literally everything counts as confirmation of your wacky thesis, or as proof that your interlocutors have been successfully brainwashed. Not the least of the faults in your argument is that it's completely unfalsifiable.

One last attempt (I should be working right now...):

MacCruiskeen wrote:
.....
The first point is, stefano: It doesn't work. Nobody associates Alice Kraus with Allison Krause. Nobody in the whole wide world.


But the novel* came out right after the 20th anniversary of Kent State when the MSM noted this with a look back and reminded folks in 1990. Not today.


So what, Hugh? How did it work, this alleged "name**-hijacking"?What did it do to those who were subjected to it? How did it do it? Show us just one person who was in fact so affected. (The fact that you can't is - to you - only further evidence that the "name-hijacking" process achieves its effects with superhuman subtlety. You're stuck in your tape-loop.)

Please do yourself a favour, Hugh: admit that it's all in your brain, switch off your computer, get some sleep, wake up and enjoy the summer outdoors. Sell your Sydney Pollack Box Set and the other 10,000 DVDs in your collection. Buy a bike, and some snazzy new shorts. Have some ice cream. Enjoy the leaves on the trees. They're pretty.

Meanwhile, I have to work.

*Are we now talking about novel-readers in 1970 or moviegoers in 1973? It's Pollack who's the CIA shill, isn't it? ... And 1973 was three years after the 20th anniversary of - Oh, forget it, Hugh. I am already exhausted; and unlike you, I haven't been up all night.

**Remember: "Alice" is not "Allison", "Kraus" is not "Krause", and they're all very common names, nearly as common as John and Mary and Smith and Jones. Nearly as common as leaves on trees, and at least as culturally significant.
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Postby orz » Thu May 29, 2008 11:25 am

Hey, Jeff has just made this discussion moot by making it against his rules.

Wow you're as bad at reading rules as you are at reading films.
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