Delmart Vreeland sentenced to 336 yrs for child sex crimes

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Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:23 pm

Jeff wrote:
mentalgongfu2 wrote:HEY GUYS

SORRY TO INTERRUPT THE FLAME WAR

BUT

I HEARD DELMART VREELAND GOT 336 YEARS IN PRISON ON KIDDIE PORN!


WTF????!!!!!!


Thanks.

FWIW, I spoke to Vreeland's former Toronto attorney tonight. He doesn't believe Vreeland capable of the crimes and thinks he was set up. For myself, the entanglement of 9/11, spooks and paedophilia seems more disturbingly complicated than that.

Andy Stephenson was a confidant of Vreeland, and before these charges surfaced he told me Vreeland alluded to a history of covert abuse very much like the Franklin Cover-Up.

IMO, Vreeland's a pathological liar and a spook, so I can't say with any certainty what his story really is. (Or even if he knows his own story.) But I'm pretty certain it's a troubling one.


Here's ol' Delmart. The guy's got two faces. Hold something up to the screen and cover the right side of his face. Then do the same with the left side of his face.

Image

A google news search for the terms "delmart edward vreeland" returns no results.

A web search for the same terms for the past week yields four results, one of which is http://www.findmilitaryschool.info/flor ... incidences
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Postby Penguin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:34 pm

Damn, weird face indeed. Definitely 2-sided. It weirds out even when you dont cover either side.

The story seems pretty weird, all in all, too...
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Postby justdrew » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:38 pm

what do folks think of this 'debunking' site?
http://www3.sympatico.ca/ron666/vreeland.html

I'm looking now, but I wonder if anyone's spoken to his parents?
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Postby American Dream » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:51 pm

justdrew wrote:
what do folks think of this 'debunking' site?
http://www3.sympatico.ca/ron666/vreeland.html


I can't say about the specifics of the Vreeland content as it wouldn't open for me, but CKLN is an awesome station. Ron Anisich's show "Bad Cop No Donut" is very good, though with a one-track focus on the bad things cops do. Not that those sorts of stories are in short supply....
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Postby Penguin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:55 pm

Badly done website - Took a long while to load, and no text is shown before all is loaded.

"In December 2000 Delmart Vreeland was arrested in Toronto on charges which included fraud. Authorities in the US subsequently requested his extradition to face fraud charges in Michigan. Vreeland claims to be employed by ONI. He says that as the result of a trip to Moscow shortly before his arrest he discovered documents which contained information on the attacks that eventually took place on 9/11. Vreeland's story was very complex. He claimed to have composed a note which detailed a warning of the 9/11 attacks while he was in jail. He claimed to have designed the Star Wars system. He claimed to be the victim of a relentless drug dealer. Vreeland claimed that the Michigan charges were false.

In April 2002 The Bitter End, along with CKLN's International Connection, started a six month long look into many details of Vreeland's story.

We discovered that the note that Vreeland wrote in jail could not have possibly been interpreted as a warning of anything. We discovered that during the time he was supposed to have been in Moscow uncovering the 9/11 plot he was actually in the custody of police in St. Thomas, Ontario. We discovered that his navy records indicate that he didn't make it through basic training and that he presented false identification when he signed up. We found evidence that he didn't graduate high school. We discovered that the alleged relentless drug dealer was actually Vreeland's brother-in-law. We found that Vreeland had an extensive criminal record, having spent the majority of his adult life in jail and that he was wanted in at least six states. We found the victims of the alleged frauds which Vreeland is accused of committing in Michigan and many people in law enforcement who related details of Vreeland's alleged crimes.

We also quickly discovered that almost nothing Vreeland ever said on the record could possibly be true. Several judges in Canada and the US have called Vreeland a man of little credibility. Other journalists noticed gaping holes in the story and reported both the descrepencies and the opinions of various judges.

On September 9 and 10, 2002, Vreeland failed to appear at a hearing relating to his extradition. A judge issued a warrant which effectively made him a wanted felon in two countries.

On October 20, 2004 Delmart Vreeland was arrested in Iowa, ending speculation from his former lawyers about his supposed death.

We have complied an extensive collection of material which we think will help you to decide for yourself whether or not there is anything to Vreeland's claims. This includes many original interviews broadcast in 2002 on CKLN 88.1 FM in Toronto."

This is the start of it.
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Postby Penguin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:57 pm

Every paragraph has a link to the source, in the original, same as above.

"Did this man predict Sept. 11?: While jet fighters drop bombs on Afghanistan in the wake of the World Trade Center tragedy and FBI agents search for the source of anthrax letters, an incredible tale has been unfolding in a Toronto courtroom. This Toronto Star story by Nick Pron from October 23/2001 was the first mention of Vreeland's allegations in the mainstream press. Apparently the governments involved are sceptical of Vreeland's claims, which Vreeland's lawyers say is absurd. Nick Pron told us that he regrets having written this article.

U.S. looks into inmate's story: "We're aware of what he has been saying and we will be looking into his story," a spokesperson for the American consulate in Toronto said yesterday about the continuing saga of Delmart Edward Vreeland. In his October 25/2001 Toronto Star article, Nick Pron finds someone at the US consulate in Toronto who is willing to say Vreeland's name.

'Plot' to murder judge may never have existed: Were Toronto detectives duped by a man described by Detroit police as a con artist? In this October 31/2001 Toronto Star article, Nick Pron explores the links, or lack thereof, between Vreeland and Nestor Fonseca.

Spy Case In Canadian Courts Suggests US Naval Officer Had Foreknowledge Of 9/11: Mike Vreeland is one man who, in a rational world, could totally expose the complicity of the US government in the attacks of September 11th. This article from January 28/2002 by Michael C. Ruppert offers the most biased and factually inaccurate reporting of Vreeland's court appearances.

When 9/11 Conspiracy Theories Go Bad: Ruppert fails to note that the Star did not confirm the man's account, that the paper reported some observers "wonder if it isn't just the ravings of a lunatic," and that the Star subsequently reported the judge said the tale had "no air of reality." David Corn, Washington editor of The Nation examines Ruppert's post 9/11 reporting in this March 1/2002 article.

Ruppert Defends His Work: Rational people will want to know how this man knew of the attacks and why the U.S. government and The Nation are trying so hard to kill this story. Ruppert's March 3/2002 reply to the David Corn article linked above.

Vreeland Attacked In Canadian Jail: Vreeland has been subject to physical attacks while behind bars, indicating that the certain death he fears if he is returned to the US, might become a reality behind the jailhouse walls in Toronto. This March 3/2002 article by Greta Knutzen continues the reporting of Vreeland's trial. A Canadian judge felt that Vreeland had not provided credible evidence to support this claim.

Vreeland in Safe House, All Canadian Charges Dropped, Temporary Refugee Status Granted: All Canadian charges connected to Vreeland’s December 2000 arrest have been dropped and Vreeland, who is seeking permanent political refugee status in Canada, has been granted temporary refugee status until February 2003, or until his extradition case has been resolved in Canadian courts. A March 15/2002 update on Mr. Vreeland's status by Michael C. Ruppert.

The Balance of Terror and the Red Mercury Nightmare: Vreeland maintains that he cannot return to the United States because the Russian mafia would assassinate him and because an important American official would assure Vreeland's death or imprisonment upon his return. This March 26/2002 article by J.R. Nyquist discusses the details of one of the documents which Mr. Vreeland is in possesion of.

Red Mercury and The Strange Case of Delmart Vreeland Part 2: Last week I interviewed Vreeland, who claims to possess official Russian documents stolen from Moscow that link the Kremlin to the Sept. 11 terrorist assault and to a planned Iraqi nuclear attack against U.S. cities using Russian red mercury fusion devices. J.R. Nyquist continues his look at Mr. Vreeland in this April 1/2002 article. Since writing these articles Mr. Nyquist has dismissed many of Vreeland's claims.

“Mike” Vreeland Speaks – 35 Questions and Answers: The letter said that Bastien and Vreeland would be dealt with "in a manner suitable to us." The letter specifically stated on page two, "Our American official guarantees this." Michael C. Ruppert interviews Delmart Vreeland who explains how he learned of the impending attacks on the USA. April 4/2002.

Canadian Exile Speaks Out About Possible 9-11 Cover-up: In September of 2000 Vreeland was sent to Moscow to work with a Canadian systems analyst named Marc Bastien. They worked together closely for three months analyzing weapons systems. In this April 18/2002 article from the Sierra Times Andrew Wilt writes about Vreeland's story based on his conversations with him. Vreeland said in another interview 3 days earlier that he didn't travel to Moscow until the end of November 2000.

Media and the Hazards of Political Faith: Vreeland's notations, introduced into evidence in a Toronto court last October, amount to an ambiguous mish-mash. In this April 25/2002 article by noted media analyst Norman Solomon the validity of the "warning note" is examined.

The September 11 X-Files: Ruppert and Vreeland assert that Canadian court records back up Vreeland. But court decisions in his case have questioned his credibility. David Corn of The Nation compares Vreeland's story with reality in this May 30/2002 article.

To Protect and to Spin: To believe that, one must believe Vreeland is a victim of a massive disinformation campaign involving his family, law-enforcement officers and defense lawyers across the country, two state corrections departments, county-clerk offices in 10 or so counties, the Canadian justice system, and various parts of the U.S. government. This June 15/2002 LA Weekly article by David Corn continues his examination of Ruppert and Vreeland.

Wildcard: While in prison, during the summer of 2001, Vreeland says he repeatedly attempted to warn the world about imminent terrorist attacks. Down the rabbit hole with the man who says he tried to warn the world about 9/11 from the point of view of Sander Hicks. http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... d_gnn.html

Vreeland Captured in Iowa: On October 20, 2004 Vreeland is captured using a stolen credit card. Turns out he's not dead after all. Part One - Part Two

And The Rest...: A collection of other articles not listed above. Vreeland steals a boat, etc."

Based on this info, looks a lot like a con artist.

This also from above links, the alleged warning note:

Image

Damned if I can read that scribbling. Any pharmacists here? :D
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Postby Jeff » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:06 pm

But what does it mean to debunk someone like Vreeland? Everyone admits he's a bullshit artist.

Gary Sick, Jimmy Carter's principal White House aide on the Iran file during the fall of the Shah and the hostage crisis, in his book October Surprise, on discovering that bullshit artists were in contract to US intelligence agencies:

Such characters are a researcher's nemesis; they are meant to be. When the CIA or other intelligence agencies need to hire a "contractor," who may be required to carry out tasks that are potentially dangerous and of questionable legality, they look for three things: a specific and useful skill (a knowledge of money-laundering, perhaps); a romantic streak that glorifies both the secrecy and the risk; and a propensity for exageration and trouble. One former CIA officer, David MacMichael, has said that the agency looks for these freelancers at small community airports and gun ranges - places where men go to escape the boredom of everyday life. Looking for adventure, these men are fascinated by the imagined glamour and excitement of the world of espionage. MacMichael said that often, after one or two assignments, the agency will put a contractor on a case in which he runs afoul of the law. The contractor finds himself in a compromising position - nothing so major as to put him permanently out of commission, but significant enough that if he ever starts telling tales out of school about covert operations, his record will discredit his testimony.

Sander Hicks has a very interesting series on Vreeland, called Wildcard, though I don't know if it's still available online. Hicks very smartly tells how he's pulled in opposite directions on the story.
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Postby Penguin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:14 pm

Jeff wrote:But what does it mean to debunk someone like Vreeland? Everyone admits he's a bullshit artist.

Gary Sick, Jimmy Carter's principal White House aide on the Iran file during the fall of the Shah and the hostage crisis, in his book October Surprise, on discovering that bullshit artists were in contract to US intelligence agencies:



(Gary Sick? Tony Snow? ....)

Yeah Jeff, thats why I asked earlier that isnt it a benefit to have those "skill" sets - or traits - in that line of work...
A good liar, and an unbelievable whistleblower.

Perfect combo.

Wildcard: While in prison, during the summer of 2001, Vreeland says he repeatedly attempted to warn the world about imminent terrorist attacks. Down the rabbit hole with the man who says he tried to warn the world about 9/11 from the point of view of Sander Hicks.


That Wildcard is mentioned on the above site, and had the link to that scan of the scribbling I posted. http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... d_gnn.html

"WILDCARD: Down the rabbit hole
with the man who says he tried to
warn the world about 9/11

A GNN Special Report
By Sander Hicks"

"Part Two: Dissecting the Notes

Vreeland claims the now infamous notes were part of a 37-page memo to Admiral Vern Clark, Chief of Naval Operations. Although they fast developed a reputation as a "warning letter," Vreeland says this wasn't his intention. As Vreeland told me in our first interview on April 6, 2002, "These are my own personal notes...The only way to understand the whole thing is to read the whole memo. We have not made that public yet. A big YET on that."

I asked Vreeland about the exact contents and codes of the note:

What were you trying to do in August, 2001?
"I wanted to avert 9/11."

If you had five minutes with President Bush what would you say?"
"I could not tell you what I would say to him. I am forbidden from telling you. I am not suspecting him. I am not making a statement-I am not doing any Bush-bashing."

Five months later, Vreeland, is significantly less pro-Bush. The experience has changed him, and he petulantly remarks, "If anyone said they were going to blow something up in the U.S. I wouldn't do a damn thing."

You have given up?
"Yes. I can hold my punches with George Bush. They scammed that election- It's a dictatorship. It's illegitimate."

Are you afraid?
"I'm surprised I'm still here. I got too many people wanting me dead. If I was after me, I would kidnap me, I would drug me, I would get the info I wanted and then I would kill me."

If you were after you, do you think you could get you?
"Absolutely! I can get anyone if I wanted them badly enough."

What information would you shake out of yourself?
"I'd want to know where the Wanta money is right now. Who in the Pentagon has done wrong? Who killed who-black ops-illegal arms trades, where are blueprints, the docs you brought back from Moscow? Where's Susanna at? Was it her or Oleg who poisoned Bastien? And did McComb County give up Bobby Moore intentionally? Who shot Foster?"

When did you leave ONI?
"Ninteen-ninety-eight."

Why?
"The opportunity came, I was getting old, I don't like getting shot, getting stabbed.""
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Postby justdrew » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:18 pm

the debunking site I posted doesn't seem to me to be all that conclusive at all. It doesn't mention these 1200 pages of records from the US DOD that came in to court... I doubt anyone's scanned them, but if he was inducted and flagged as a crazy during training and then discharged, I suppose the military could well generate 1200 pages on that, especially if they had him in observation and researched on the forged documents he supposedly enlisted under, but then... why would they extend to 1998?

It seems hard to be sure the guy's name is even meaningfully real... do we know for sure that this Vreeland LOOKS at all like the 80s-90s Vreeland?

Also it's entirely possible he was a character sent in to add smoke and mirrors to the events. If he 'dies' shortly after going to prison, perhaps he won't be dead, just moved into his rewarding retirement.
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Postby Penguin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:20 pm

Yeah. Whadda ya know.
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Postby Jeff » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:34 pm

justdrew wrote:Also it's entirely possible he was a character sent in to add smoke and mirrors to the events.


I think that's quite likely.
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Re: vanlose kid's "What argument?"

Postby marmot » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:37 pm

Since this thread was in no time reaching critical mass I thought I'd read it. It wasn't until almost page six that we got back on topic of the spooky pedophile.

I don't have any comments of real worth. But I feel since I spent twenty minutes of my life reading LNL related back and forths that I'm afforded a few words. Here's my thoughts: LNL is troooolly a stooopid pooop-head. And I say we vote him off the island; or if that's not in the island constitution, I say we shave his head, paint it like a soccer ball, bury him up to his neck in beach sand, and leave him there for a passerby.
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Re: vanlose kid's "What argument?"

Postby Penguin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:46 pm

marmot wrote:Since this thread was in no time reaching critical mass I thought I'd read it. It wasn't until almost page six that we got back on topic of the spooky pedophile.

I don't have any comments of real worth. But I feel since I spent twenty minutes of my life reading LNL related back and forths that I'm afforded a few words. Here's my thoughts: LNL is troooolly a stooopid pooop-head. And I say we vote him off the island; or if that's not in the island constitution, I say we shave his head, paint it like a soccer ball, bury him up to his neck in beach sand, and leave him there for a passerby.


Seconded. And thats a football.
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Re: vanlose kid's "What argument?"

Postby marmot » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:01 pm

Penguin wrote:
marmot wrote:LNL is troooolly a stooopid pooop-head. And I say we vote him off the island; or if that's not in the island constitution, I say we shave his head, paint it like a soccer ball, bury him up to his neck in beach sand, and leave him there for a passerby.


Seconded. And thats a football.

yeah, i thought about qualifying that. but you get the picture: soccer ball---football. tomayto---tomahto.

Image

and you know, i wouldn't mind her stepping on my face..
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Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:01 pm

brainpanhandler wrote:
Image



Image

Another guy with an obvious two-face syndrome, which he pointed out himself - claiming one half of him was evil.

He gave various contradictory accounts of his life, initially claiming innocence, and later that he was possessed by Satan. His facility for lying has made it difficult, if not impossible, for researchers to ascertain any truth on the basis of his statements.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._H._Holmes

Off-topic, I suppose, but I just wanted to show that the two-face, dual personality thing among killers and perverts predates (even by most conspiracy people's reckoning) the concerted domestic weaponisation of the security state.
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