The Dark Side of the Moon.

[Penguin]

Damn, we SHOULD be trembling with respectful razor-edged poise & vigilant awareness, as the 'old' fight-or-flight instincts just aren't adapted yet to the new-world dangers we face.
(Gosh, I hope the connection here isn't too OT or obscure.)

I have just a few rules, and one of the ones I try to not break is:
"Laugh in the face of danger"

And couple from dear old Wilson (hey, and thanks to my beloved friend who just left home after a long chat about this same shit were discussing, I love you man! You really made my day!) - If it doesnt make you laugh, it aint real. And if it doesnt also make you cry, you didnt get it.

[Penguin]

LilyPat, from your links...(I found them interesting, thanks..)

Question number two: did the ancients and Puharich realise that the mushroom contained some magical chemical that opened the door for the mind to enter into another dimension? Was this chemical a “stargate”?

If so, how had Puharich come to this conclusion? Beneath the published record, lay a personal account, one which only after his death was revealed by his second wife, who wrote a biography, which in the end was only ever published electronically.
Puharich’s story starts at university, where he developed the “Theory of Nerve Conduction”. In the words of Terry Milner: “The theory proposed that the neuron units radiate and receive waves of energy which he calculated to be in the ultrashortwave bands below infrared and above the radar spectrum. Therefore the basic nerve units - neurons - are a certain type of radio receiver-transmitter.” Puharich’s theory was well received by leading scientists, including one Jose Delgado, later to become one of the pioneers for the CIA in implanting electronic tools in animal brains, to influence their behaviour. But Puharich’s aim was to become a doctor, even though during his internship, he carried out research into digatoid drugs. His sponsor was Sandoz Chemical Works, the pharmaceutical company that had created LSD – at a time when the world had not yet fallen for its hallucinogenic properties.

This ties in to John Lilly too, the inventor of the sensory deprivation tank..
He also did research with brain electrodes originally, and was approached by US gov. He did some work for them before realizing what it would be used for - but used their money to develop the tank for his own use.

He later stopped all electrode implant stuff as he realized how invasive and morally wrong it was to do that to animals...And concentrated instead on researching ketamine, acid and the tank - often even tripping alone immersed in the warm salt water in the tank, and claimed he was in telepathic communication with dolphins (which I tend to believe).

I really liked his book The Scientist - A metaphysical autobiography. Got it as pdf.
Back to reading...

[Julia W]

Thanks LilyPat for that article link- http://www.philipcoppens.com/moonwars.html
I liked the article. I guess put me in the Bart Sibrel, Ralph Rene and Gerhard Wisnewski camp. As far as Hoagland, I'm not there, yet(?) and currently am concerning myself more w/ the economic collaspe and how to prepare. But I defintely find this subject interesting. I have studied the moon landing hoax claims in the past and found the evidence very compelling (that we faked it) and still don't find the arguments that we did go convincing, and honestly am surprised how much I'm in the minority on this board. But so it goes.

[LilyPatToo]

Nothing wrong with being in the minority, Julia W. Most of us here are most definitely in the minority within society as a whole...and wouldn't have it otherwise But we sure do quarrel among ourselves, don't we?!

I'd be interested in anything dug up on Hoagland, if only because long ago he completely convinced a former friend of mine of his theories' truth and turned her into a rabid zealot. She subsequently became almost unbearable to be around (as in monomaniacal) and I guess I've not yet forgiven him. I realize it's difficult to avoid paranoia about who's a disinfo shill, but personally I tend to suspect the big names in the paranormal/New Age community before anyone else.

LilyPat

[Penguin]

"Whenever you find yourself agreeing with the majority, take a few steps back and reconsider" -someone

[stickdog99]

If it's so easy to get to to the Moon, why not just go back there?

The computing power of the biggest and fastest supercomputer in 1969 can now fit on postage stamp and be produced for under $20.

So why can't we replicate a feat we supposedly pulled off 6 times without a hitch 40 years ago?

Just wondering.

Are we living in some sort of post-apocalyptic world in which the lost technological knowledge of the past cannot be replicated? Because that's what the whole thing reminds me of. Six manned US missions to the Moon between 1969 and 1972. But not a single attempt by any country or any private enterprise even on the drawing board almost 40 years later.

How about another trip there, if only for the sake of nostalgia? We can use all retro rockets and lunar vehicles! All we need to do is to have someone on Pimp My Ride restore them! We can use all land line phones and video tape and film and spacefood sticks and punch cards and reel to reel tape and analog radio and vacuum tubes and ...

[OP ED]

If it's so easy to get to to the Moon, why not just go back there?

The computing power of the biggest and fastest supercomputer in 1969 can now fit on postage stamp and be produced for under $20.

So why can't we replicate a feat we supposedly pulled off 6 times without a hitch 40 years ago?

Just wondering.

i'm pretty sure i answered that a couple of pages ago. Even orz stopped disagreeing.


but i like you, so i'll try not to be rude about it or anything.

the questions is rather WHY go back?

machines can just as easily do the manual labor for the research on the moon, which is always computed and analyzed on Earth. Keeping people there is expensive and not economical unless there is something to be gained that can offset the massive fueling costs.

(i answered the part explaining why we'll be back there sooner than later a couple pages ago, perhaps you missed it)

(because large amounts of fuel can offset massive fueling costs)

you don't need supercomputers to go the moon. Newton did most of the maths a long time ago.

(they make it easier, but people are spoiled by them, just don't need supercomputers to tell you how to drive to where you're going either, but we have them)

so your question:


So why can't we replicate a feat we supposedly pulled off 6 times without a hitch 40 years ago?

is not a real question.

We can replicate it, and we essentially DO replicate it every time we send an unmanned object to the moon. The vast majority of the work is identical to a manned mission, just with smaller craft and payloads. Just cheaper cause you don't have to send Air and Food and stuff that people need, also don't have to bring the robots home afterward.

[Penguin]

Or worry about the shuttle exploding into itty bitty bits with the human crew aboard when its aging thermal shielding breaks off and causes the whole load to go boom...Causing a mild PR disaster for NASA.

Its been known to happen.

Besides, the US shuttle fleet is in bad repair, and in need of a replacement.
Currently USA relies on russian Soyuz vehicles for much of their needs.

[stickdog99]

If it's so easy to get to to the Moon, why not just go back there?

The computing power of the biggest and fastest supercomputer in 1969 can now fit on postage stamp and be produced for under $20.

So why can't we replicate a feat we supposedly pulled off 6 times without a hitch 40 years ago?

Just wondering.

i'm pretty sure i answered that a couple of pages ago. Even orz stopped disagreeing.


but i like you, so i'll try not to be rude about it or anything.

the questions is rather WHY go back?

machines can just as easily do the manual labor for the research on the moon, which is always computed and analyzed on Earth. Keeping people there is expensive and not economical unless there is something to be gained that can offset the massive fueling costs.

(i answered the part explaining why we'll be back there sooner than later a couple pages ago, perhaps you missed it)

(because large amounts of fuel can offset massive fueling costs)

you don't need supercomputers to go the moon. Newton did most of the maths a long time ago.

(they make it easier, but people are spoiled by them, just don't need supercomputers to tell you how to drive to where you're going either, but we have them)

so your question:


So why can't we replicate a feat we supposedly pulled off 6 times without a hitch 40 years ago?

is not a real question.

We can replicate it, and we essentially DO replicate it every time we send an unmanned object to the moon. The vast majority of the work is identical to a manned mission, just with smaller craft and payloads. Just cheaper cause you don't have to send Air and Food and stuff that people need, also don't have to bring the robots home afterward.

But we don't even send unmanned missions to land on the Moon and send us back pictures of the surface. Why not? Why not revisit the Apollo landing sites with inexpensive unmanned rovers and send us back pictures? Why not collect some rocks using unmanned vehicles and return them to the Earth?

India's Moon Impact Probe (MIP) in 2008 was the first lunar probe to make a controlled lunar descent since the Soviet probe Luna 24 in 1976. That's 32 years without visiting the surface of the Moon, manned or unmanned. What is down there that we are so afraid of finding?

[Penguin]

No? Google "moon probe"... ("why dont people ever use the search..")


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21773401/

Wow! Japan’s moon probe updates Earthrise
High-definition camera sends back reprise of famous Apollo-era photos

A Japanese moon probe has replicated the famous Apollo-era "Earthrise" photograph with modern high-definition imaging.

The Kaguya spacecraft, also called Selene, has been orbiting 62 miles (100 kilometers) above the moon since Oct. 18.

The new Earthrise image shows our blue world floating in the blackness of space. Released on Tuesday, it is a still shot taken from video made by the craft's high-definition television camera.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

A second image, taken from a different location in the lunar orbit, has been dubbed "Earthset." A related series of still images shows our planet setting beyond the lunar horizon.
(the pic link was so long I didnt copy it)

And thats not the only link that comes up...

[Penguin]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7091082/
Moon probe could kill conspiracy theory
SMART-1 sending back imagery of Apollo sites

A European spacecraft now orbiting the moon could turn out to be a time machine of sorts as it photographs old landing sites of Soviet robotic probes and the areas where American Apollo crews set down and explored.

New imagery of old Apollo touchdown spots, from the European Space Agency’s SMART-1 probe, might put to rest conspiratorial thoughts that U.S. astronauts didn’t go the distance and scuff up the lunar landscape. NASA carried out six piloted landings on the moon between 1969 and 1972.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... Nl2UNfPmeQ

India rejoices over moon probe landing

Nov 14, 2008

NEW DELHI (AFP) — India rejoiced Saturday over the landing of a lunar probe on the moon's surface that vaulted the country into the league of space-faring nations like the United States, Russia and Japan.

The TV set-sized probe, painted in the green-white-and-orange colours of the Indian flag, made a "precise-to-the-second" landing on the lunar surface late Friday after being released from the unmanned moon-orbiting Chandrayaan-1 satellite, the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) said.

India's first lunar mission began October 22 when a rocket transported Chandrayaan-1 into space. Chandrayaan -- the Sanskrit word for moon craft -- is on a two-year orbital mission to provide a detailed map of the mineral, chemical and topographical characteristics of the moon's surface.

The landing of the probe is a step toward landing an unmanned moon rover by 2012. ISRO also plans to launch satellites to study Mars and Venus.

Critics say India, which has hundreds of millions of people living in deep poverty, should not be embarking on a space race with starstruck regional powers like China and Japan.

But the country has been keen to display its scientific prowess and claim a bigger slice of the global satellite business.

-----------
Also, with photos...

[stickdog99]

No? Google "moon probe"...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21773401/

Wow! Japan’s moon probe updates Earthrise
High-definition camera sends back reprise of famous Apollo-era photos

A Japanese moon probe has replicated the famous Apollo-era "Earthrise" photograph with modern high-definition imaging.

The Kaguya spacecraft, also called Selene, has been orbiting 62 miles (100 kilometers) above the moon since Oct. 18.

The new Earthrise image shows our blue world floating in the blackness of space. Released on Tuesday, it is a still shot taken from video made by the craft's high-definition television camera.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

A second image, taken from a different location in the lunar orbit, has been dubbed "Earthset." A related series of still images shows our planet setting beyond the lunar horizon.
(the pic link was so long I didnt copy it)

And thats not the only link that comes up...

The USA has not made a soft landing on the Moon -- manned or unmanned -- in over 35 years. Why not? What are we afraid of (not) finding there?

[stickdog99]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7091082/
Moon probe could kill conspiracy theory
SMART-1 sending back imagery of Apollo sites

A European spacecraft now orbiting the moon could turn out to be a time machine of sorts as it photographs old landing sites of Soviet robotic probes and the areas where American Apollo crews set down and explored.

New imagery of old Apollo touchdown spots, from the European Space Agency’s SMART-1 probe, might put to rest conspiratorial thoughts that U.S. astronauts didn’t go the distance and scuff up the lunar landscape. NASA carried out six piloted landings on the moon between 1969 and 1972.

So where are those photos? The article is from 2005.

[Penguin]

So where are those photos? The article is from 2005.

Ahem.
What did I just say about using the search on the intertubes?

Perhaps, the official site for SMART-1? Maybe?

http://www.esa.int/esa-mmg/mmg.pl?missi ... T-1&type=I

Not to be snarky or anything.

[Avalon]

Theres also an Asimov short story where people go to Mars after devastating Earth ecologically. On Mars, they find, what else but the remains of the civilization that had devastated Mars and gone to Earth for survival

I don't remember that one. Do you recall a title?