The bicycle.

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Re: The bicycle.

Postby barracuda » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:03 am

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:That's what makes it so awesome.


Absolutely. I found this comment on a page about the bike,and it got me wondering if there was something in particular about the geography of that part of Scotland that lent itself to the invention, besides an apparent surfeit of remarkable blacksmiths.

hi , as a small boy my great grandfather Thomas McCall Saw Mr Macmillan Ride Through His Village on his historic bicyle trip To Glasgow, he lived in The small Village of Penpoint which is very close to Mr Macmillans Home, he had great respect for Mr Macmillan and his invention , Although Thomas McCall upgraded The Bicycle With Brakes and other imrovements and was the first to sell them Comercially in the mid 1800s from his workshop in Kilmarnock he declined any recognition for its invention, like Mr Macmillan he never Patented his inventions, There Are Two of His Bicycles on Public Display , One at The London Science Museum. The Other in The Dumfries Observatory Museum,


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Re: The bicycle.

Postby 82_28 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:43 am

C_w, I get you and don't have a problem with it. I ain't no avid biker or anything.

But where you live, in the winter, depended upon rail and horse to get shit and the shit in your intestines around so you could get home to take a shit, which was also supplied by the same mentality of rail and whatnot. All those pipes below you are still maintained and they're still mostly taken care of -- sometimes hundreds of years on. Why couldn't the rails have been? Sure it ain't feasible in many northern hemisphere cities to bike it up year round. But what could possibly a more expensive public utility?

Rail with each person paying fare

OR

An aging sewer system built at the same time

OR

Using the technology of forever ago, applying it to today and getting smart.

I got a DUI a year and half ago and I am now done with driving. I wasn't charged and was not convicted. But out of the 100 things I might miss about driving, the only thing I give a shit about is just not being able to haul shit bigger than I can carry.

What did motherfuckers do 150 years ago, even 50 and etc?

Someone needs to come up with a good and reliable handy bike. I'm tired of paying for names and designs and brands. But I would like a bike.
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Re: The bicycle.

Postby barracuda » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:49 am

82_28 wrote:Someone needs to come up with a good and reliable handy bike. I'm tired of paying for names and designs and brands. But I would like a bike.


Maybe try and find a Worksman Industrial. Sometimes they come up used when a factory shuts down, but even new they're eminently reasonable in price, and forever lasting heavy duty haulers.

http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/s ... bikes.html

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Re: The bicycle.

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:51 am

barracuda wrote:Absolutely. I found this comment on a page about the bike,and it got me wondering if there was something in particular about the geography of that part of Scotland that lent itself to the invention, besides an apparent surfeit of remarkable blacksmiths.


I think it was just the great age of iron working, especially wrought iron, and like you say there seem to have been an embarassment of blacksmiths (and inventors) all over the place at the time. I suppose the geography might come into it, but it's reasonably flat down towards Dumfries, so only insofar as there was plenty of the necessary raw material in the ground, and the Carron Iron Works was not a million miles from where Macmillan lived. It remained the largest iron works in Europe throughout the 19th century, so he would've had plenty of the stuff within delivery range to play with until he got it right.

Iron was just the in thing at the time, I guess, and the ideal material for his spoked wheels. It was such an important resource that Carron Iron Works was the first target of the radical reformers during the Insurrection of 1820 - they reckoned that if they could get hold of the place they would be able to sieze the cannons and hold out against government troops while they set up a provisional government of their own, but alas, it was not to be. I suppose taken control of such an important industrial site would've given them some extra political leverage too.
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Re: The bicycle.

Postby compared2what? » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:56 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:
Yes, exactly - pedestrians have their own infrastructure. (Gawd, isn't there another word I could use, that one is getting dull)


I like it. Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure! Here's the thing, though: They don't.


Solving the Epidemic of Preventable Pedestrian Deaths

The decades-long neglect of pedestrian safety in the design and use of American streets is exacting a heavy toll on our lives. In the last decade, from 2000 through 2009, more than 47,700 pedestrians were killed in the United States, the equivalent of a jumbo jet full of passengers crashing roughly every month. On top of that, more than 688,000 pedestrians were injured over the decade, a number equivalent to a pedestrian being struck by a car or truck every 7 minutes.

Despite the magnitude of these avoidable tragedies, little public attention – and even less in public resources – has been committed to reducing pedestrian deaths and injuries in the United States. On the contrary, transportation agencies typically prioritize speeding traffic over the safety of people on foot or other vulnerable road users.

Nationwide, pedestrians account for nearly 12 percent of total traffic deaths. But state departments of transportation have largely ignored pedestrian safety from a budgetary perspective, allocating only about 1.5 percent of available federal funds to projects that retrofit dangerous roads or create safe alternatives.


More at link.

Granted, they still dart out into traffic, causing a hazard (to whom? mostly to themselves, right? but a hazard it is, nonetheless.)


When I was 23, I was hit by a taxi that ran a light pretty much going full-speed. I did not dart into traffic. I was just crossing the damn street. Since it's pretty nearly miraculous that I'm alive and whole today, I tend to look back on that incident with more gratitude for my inexplicable good luck than I do resentment for my misfortune. But the excruciating pain and lengthy hospitalization weren't exactly fun.

While I didn't earn them by being a hazard to myself, the cabbie wasn't really the hazard either. The intersection (33rd and Park, second highest pedestrian fatality rate in the city at the time, IIRC) was. a. major. hazard. And it still is. There are fewer fatalities there, but it's usually leading the borough in number of pedestrians struck, most years I've looked. From which I infer that the city did something that was better than nothing but not actually enough, though I don't really know. I haven't crossed the street there in almost thirty years.

Pedestrian non-safety due to any number of factors (including inadequate infrastructure, infrastructure, ooga-chaka, ooga, ooga) is actually a pretty significant problem in most urban-industrialized countries. It's just not a very sexy one.

the thing with cyclists is this: there are no separate spaces for them in most cities. They are mercilessly tossed out there with grandmas sitting on booster seats, peeking out from over the dashboard of V8 SUVs!!! Over 17,000 cyclists were injured/killed last year in Britain. And those are only the reported cases. That's outrageous. How many people were killed by guns in Britain last year? Does that make bikes more dangerous than guns, or what? Depends how you look at it.


No. It really doesn't, unless you know what killed/injured them. I mean, for one thing, they all might have been shot.

If over 17,000 people were killed/injured by bikes rather than while on bikes, you'd have a point.

I believe that they are throwing the "you hate mother earth!!!!' argument out pretty heavily and for no good reason, which in my opinion equates to we should all be trying to rid ourselves of personal automobiles and if you don't support that unquestioningly you are a worthy target of slander.


I'm still not seeing that.
Last edited by compared2what? on Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The bicycle.

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:41 am

Definitely, the streets are hazardous for bikes, both motorized and pedaled, pedestrians, skateboarders and yes, even cars and trucks.
But all things being equal, regardless of fault, a confrontation between a car and bike, or a car and pedestrian, the car is going to win.
And if someone in a car kills someone on the street, even if its the bike or pedestrians fault, they will have a lot of pain to live with.
Thats assuming they are a human being. which is getting to be a stretch unfortunately.
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Re: The bicycle.

Postby compared2what? » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:31 am

Burnt Hill wrote:Definitely, the streets are hazardous for bikes, both motorized and pedaled, pedestrians, skateboarders and yes, even cars and trucks.
But all things being equal, regardless of fault, a confrontation between a car and bike, or a car and pedestrian, the car is going to win.
And if someone in a car kills someone on the street, even if its the bike or pedestrians fault, they will have a lot of pain to live with.
Thats assuming they are a human being. which is getting to be a stretch unfortunately.


I agree completely. I recently learned that someone I know (not well) was "lucky" enough to have only practically killed the pedestrian he'd left for dead in a hit-and-run. I don't know how anyone can do that. But many people do.

Kind of makes me want to run into traffic, frankly.
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Re: The bicycle.

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:41 am

compared2what? wrote:
Burnt Hill wrote:Definitely, the streets are hazardous for bikes, both motorized and pedaled, pedestrians, skateboarders and yes, even cars and trucks.
But all things being equal, regardless of fault, a confrontation between a car and bike, or a car and pedestrian, the car is going to win.
And if someone in a car kills someone on the street, even if its the bike or pedestrians fault, they will have a lot of pain to live with.
Thats assuming they are a human being. which is getting to be a stretch unfortunately.

I agree completely. I recently learned that someone I know (not well) was "lucky" enough to have only practically killed the pedestrian he'd left for dead in a hit-and-run. I don't know how anyone can do that. But many people do.

Kind of makes me want to run into traffic, frankly.
I get this statement both in jest and for real.

Having demarcated lanes is nice, but certainly not the only answer. Drivers are supposed look in their right-rearview and yield to cyclists before turning right. Sometimes they forget. Sometimes they are tourists renting cars and are unfamiliar with the territory. Sometimes, however, there's a wicked little game: ease forward just enough to cut off the cyclist, who will then, ostensibly, stop. Or, more likely, they'll veer to the right to get around the offending driver. This all too often becomes a cat and mouse spiel which ends in severe injury or death.

http://www.adfc-berlin.de/aktionenprojekte/verkehrssicherheit/geisterraeder.html These guys go around placing these memorials to two-wheel fatalities. And all over the world, apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_bike

However you get around, be careful out there!
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Re: The bicycle.

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:44 am

compared2what? wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:
Yes, exactly - pedestrians have their own infrastructure. (Gawd, isn't there another word I could use, that one is getting dull)


I like it. Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure! Here's the thing, though: They don't.


If you've been following along you'll know that I know that already. It's kind of my whole point.

compared2what? wrote:

.....Nationwide, pedestrians account for nearly 12 percent of total traffic deaths. But state departments of transportation have largely ignored pedestrian safety from a budgetary perspective, allocating only about 1.5 percent of available federal funds to projects that retrofit dangerous roads or create safe alternatives.


More at link.

Canadian_watcher wrote:Granted, they still dart out into traffic, causing a hazard (to whom? mostly to themselves, right? but a hazard it is, nonetheless.)


When I was 23, I was hit by a taxi that ran a light pretty much going full-speed. I did not dart into traffic. ...


I suppose you're saying that even though they've tried to make such infrastructure for pedestrians they have failed. I personally have never even heard any suggestion of this. No anecdotal evidence whatsoever to this effect.

compared2what? wrote:While I didn't earn them by being a hazard to myself, the cabbie wasn't really the hazard either. The intersection (33rd and Park, second highest pedestrian fatality rate in the city at the time, IIRC) was. a. major. hazard. And it still is. There are fewer fatalities there, but it's usually leading the borough in number of pedestrians struck, most years I've looked. From which I infer that the city did something that was better than nothing but not actually enough, though I don't really know. I haven't crossed the street there in almost thirty years.

Pedestrian non-safety due to any number of factors (including inadequate infrastructure, infrastructure, ooga-chaka, ooga, ooga) is actually a pretty significant problem in most urban-industrialized countries. It's just not a very sexy one.


So you are saying that because pedestrian safety is still an issue that this fact somehow negates my opinion that bicycles on city streets are equally as dangerous? Or are you just playing semantics, stating once more that I mis-worded my statement earlier: I should have said, city streets are too much of a hazard for bikers, and many bikers die as a result of riding on city streets.

Now it is restated. i'll single it out for clarity:

CLARIFICATION OF EARLIER STATEMENT(S):

1..Bikers on city streets are a major fucking hazard should be changed to: CITY STREETS ARE a MAJOR FUCKING HAZARD FOR BIKERS.
and
2. .. especially in the winter, and ought to be banned... should be changed to: BIKING IN THE WINTER ON CITY STREETS WHEN THERE IS SNOW AND ARE SNOWBANKS IS A PRACTICE THAT OUGHT TO BE BANNED.

compared2what? wrote:
... Over 17,000 cyclists were injured/killed last year in Britain. And those are only the reported cases. That's outrageous. How many people were killed by guns in Britain last year? Does that make bikes more dangerous than guns, or what? Depends how you look at it.


No. It really doesn't, unless you know what killed/injured them. I mean, for one thing, they all might have been shot.


Now I get to play dumb, and divert instead of addressing any point you have. Watch: It really doesn't? I guess that all depends on what that IT indicates. It doesn't depend on how you look at it? Id say that most everything does depend on how you look at it. Like, just about everything I can possibly think of will have a different meaning and a different vibe to different people depending on how they look at it. But perhaps you meant the other IT. I'll never know, unless you want to waste a half a page explaining it to me and trying to re-create your original response in what is now a more hostile environment for conversation...

compared2what? wrote:If over 17,000 people were killed/injured by bikes rather than while on bikes, you'd have a point.


semantics. Guns don't kill people, people kill people - right?

compared2what? wrote:
I believe that they are throwing the "you hate mother earth!!!!' argument out pretty heavily and for no good reason, which in my opinion equates to we should all be trying to rid ourselves of personal automobiles and if you don't support that unquestioningly you are a worthy target of slander.


I'm still not seeing that.


well we all know that nothing is true unless you see it, so it mustn't be happening.
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Re: The bicycle.

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:07 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:BIKING IN THE WINTER ON CITY STREETS WHEN THERE IS SNOW AND ARE SNOWBANKS IS A PRACTICE THAT OUGHT TO BE BANNED.
I -- with all the respect I can muster, but quite emphatically nonetheless -- disagree.
But, hey Cw, at least you don't have to worry about this vv guy/gal. vv :jumping:
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Re: The bicycle.

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:22 am

Spiro C. Thiery wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:BIKING IN THE WINTER ON CITY STREETS WHEN THERE IS SNOW AND ARE SNOWBANKS IS A PRACTICE THAT OUGHT TO BE BANNED.
I -- with all the respect I can muster, but quite emphatically nonetheless -- disagree.


i can see why you would. it would disrupt far too many lives. it wouldn't be efficient to ban it, but I do believe that it is very dangerous in the current state of the urban landscape.
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Re: The bicycle.

Postby barracuda » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:25 am

Church Lady wrote:Why aren't scooters and skateboarders allowed to ride in with vehicular traffic?


I'd like to take a stab at this one...BECAUSE THEY ARE TOYS FOR CHILDREN, FFS. Why aren't children's pedal cars allowed to ride in vehicular traffic, I wonder? Huh? Answer that one... if you dare!

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PRO TIP: If you see a person of shaving age riding a skooter or pedal car, it is fair game to chuckle.

Canadian_Watcher wrote:I do believe that it is very dangerous in the current state of the urban landscape.


I *do* mean that bicycles are a hazard to their riders


I do mean that the roads, in the VAST majority of urban centers, are not suitable for bikes AND cars,


I do, I do, I do. Christ what is this a group wedding??

Oh dear, Church Lady Canadian Watcher - are you still worried for the cyclists? Seeyewper-dooper. I bet you have a bumpersticker that reads "GOSHAROOTIE I'M SO WORRIED ABOUT BIKES!" Or maybe "I'D RATHER BE CONCERN TROLLING!"

CLARIFICATION OF EARLIER STATEMENT(S):


As long as you're clarifying, might you put to rest for once and all the whole "hobo" controversy? It seems to me there have been a number of interpretations put forward by yourself. So far it seems that:

    - Cyclists in inclement weather are hobos,

    - You call yourself a hobo,

    - You don't personally don't even consider 'hobo' an insult, and

    - A "bona fide" hobo would smack you sideways, for some odd reason.

First of all, how does one obtain actual "bona fides" as a hobo? Is there a certification process? Have you ever actually been smacked by a hobo? Do you feel that "hobos" are prone to such violent attacks? Is a hobo still a hobo if the weather is nice? Do all hobos have bikes? Is a cycling hobo a mobile-homeless person?

Or conversely you might simply say something like, "gee I'm sorry I ever called cyclists bona fide hobos, because that's not just insulting to cyclists but also a slur on the homeless."

Or whatever it is you might say when not nervously fretting over the injury/deaths of cyclists.

OOver 17,000 cyclists were injured/killed last year in Britain. And those are only the reported cases. That's outrageous. How many people were killed by guns in Britain last year? Does that make bikes more dangerous than guns, or what? Depends how you look at it.


city streets are too much of a hazard for bikers, and many bikers die as a result of riding on city streets.


Christ on a bike. Ach.

we should all be trying to rid ourselves of personal automobiles and if you don't support that unquestioningly you are a worthy target of slander.


I'm not sure I disagree with that statement, at all.
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Re: The bicycle.

Postby barracuda » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:25 am

Canadian Watcher, how does your car horn sound when you're honking at cyclists on city streets?

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Re: The bicycle.

Postby barracuda » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:27 am

As long as I'm here, let me pass along a little jokey-poo germane to our discussion of injury/deaths and Campy grupos...

    Little Timmy has a babysitter every Friday night when his parents go out for dinner. One Friday, the sitter disappears while Timmy is watching TV. Hearing a strange noise, he sneaks upstairs to look through the crack in his parent's bedroom door and sees the babysitter lying naked on the bed with her hands between her legs, moaning over and over again, "I wanna man... I wanna man..."

    The next Friday little Timmy witnesses the same thing again, the sitter naked, hands between her legs, moaning over and over again, "I wanna man... I wanna man". And the following Friday the scene is repeated as well.

    Then, the next Friday night, he sneaks up to look through the crack in the door, only to his surprise, there is his babysitter naked in the bed with her boyfriend.

    The following day, his parents hear a strange noise coming from Timmy's bedroom. They open the door, and there's Timmy, naked on the bed with his hands between his legs, moaning over and over again, "I wanna bike... I wanna bike..."
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Re: The bicycle.

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:05 pm

I clearly fascinate you, b. You can't resist replying even when I'm not engaging you. Oh the power. I'm drunk with it.

I've already stated that I do not honk at bike riders while driving in my car and that I do not feel any sort of anger or frustration with them as we share the road. If you'd like to go on proving that you have little to zero reading comprehension ability then that is your prerogative.

For those of you up in arms about my hobo example:

A hobo is a migratory worker or homeless vagabond, especially one who is penniless. The term originated in the Western—probably Northwestern—United States during the last decade of the 19th century.[1] Unlike 'tramps', who work only when they are forced to, and 'bums', who do not work at all, 'hobos' are workers who wander


If you consider that to be a derogatory term, then I feel for ya.
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