Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby American Dream » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:18 am

Nothing should obscure the reality that this was a politically motivated crime:

On Sunday morning, Jerad and Amanda Miller left their two cats with their next-door neighbor, and left their Las Vegas apartment complex on foot, armed with a handgun, a shotgun, and hundreds of rounds of ammunition. Less than five hours later, the couple burst into a CiCi’s Pizza restaurant just northeast of the Strip, yelled “This is the start of the revolution,” and opened fire on two police officers, in what the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department called a “politically motivated ambush.” They then stripped the slain officers of their weapons and ammo, covered them with swastikas a “Don’t Tread On Me” flag, and headed to a nearby Walmart, where they fatally shot a bystander before Amanda turned the gun on her husband and then killed herself. Their plan, according to police, was to takeover a courthouse, execute public officials, and ultimately overthrow the government.

In the days since the shooting, the portrait of the Millers that has emerged in media reports and police statements, as well as from their social media accounts, reveals a young couple that had fallen deeply down the rabbit hole of right-wing conspiracy theories. Neighbors told the Las Vegas Sun that the Millers had a reputation for espousing racist, anti-government worldviews, and for bragging about their gun collection. On Facebook and in YouTube videos, posted under the username USATruePatriot, Jerad Miller identifies himself as a supporter of the Patriot Movement—an umbrella term that encompasses right-wing militias, white supremacists, and sovereign citizens—and talks regularly about chemtrails, tyranny, and overthrowing the federal government.


http://www.vice.com/read/whats-behind-a ... -shootings
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:29 am

Where is the racism? Have I missed any data points that support the claim this couple was racist?

Also weird:

They then stripped the slain officers of their weapons and ammo, covered them with swastikas a “Don’t Tread On Me” flag, and headed to a nearby Walmart, where they fatally shot a bystander before Amanda turned the gun on her husband and then killed herself. Their plan, according to police, was to takeover a courthouse, execute public officials, and ultimately overthrow the government.


Committing suicide in a Wal-Mart doesn't seem like a very effective means of taking of a courthouse.

Still, that at least makes more sense than taking over a courthouse to overthrow the government.

Sounds like "police sources" are being coached on how to sculpt a narrative here; or, of course, they're not police sources at all.
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10896
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby elfismiles » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:33 am

This is the first witness footage I've seen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18zMD--4vA4

EDIT: No disrespect to this witness, but judging from her thick glasses I wonder how well she observed the perps. The reporter says the witness says "she didn't see or hear the suspect leave the restaurant"... I'm not suggesting anything by these observations, I just have to wonder when we don't see footage or have good first-hand eye-witness accounts. The reporter at the beginning of the clip says that eye-witness accounts are pouring in so I'm sure there are more / better witnesses.
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby elfismiles » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:42 am

I totally agree Wombat. I think, as has been suggested, that the presence of swastikas (dropped on the bodies of the police victims and allegedly "on" the printed(?) manifesto) as well as the smearing / umbrella-ing [sic] of them [patriot movement = white supremacists / militia / sovereign groups]) is part of a concerted effort by the LEO's PTBs to sculpt the narrative as you say.

Hunter has, I believe, pointed out that there seemed to be support shown by the accused in fb posts for immigrants.

Then again, I've not yet watched any of the accused's youtube vids.

Wombaticus Rex » 11 Jun 2014 13:29 wrote:Where is the racism? Have I missed any data points that support the claim this couple was racist?

Also weird:

They then stripped the slain officers of their weapons and ammo, covered them with swastikas a “Don’t Tread On Me” flag, and headed to a nearby Walmart, where they fatally shot a bystander before Amanda turned the gun on her husband and then killed herself. Their plan, according to police, was to takeover a courthouse, execute public officials, and ultimately overthrow the government.


Committing suicide in a Wal-Mart doesn't seem like a very effective means of taking of a courthouse.

Still, that at least makes more sense than taking over a courthouse to overthrow the government.

Sounds like "police sources" are being coached on how to sculpt a narrative here; or, of course, they're not police sources at all.
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby elfismiles » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:44 am

Not sure how close to the end this was ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3ztbH9mtx4

EDIT ... or this one


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX800T__hKU
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby Hunter » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:09 am

Wombaticus Rex » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:29 am wrote:Where is the racism? Have I missed any data points that support the claim this couple was racist?

Also weird:

They then stripped the slain officers of their weapons and ammo, covered them with swastikas a “Don’t Tread On Me” flag, and headed to a nearby Walmart, where they fatally shot a bystander before Amanda turned the gun on her husband and then killed herself. Their plan, according to police, was to takeover a courthouse, execute public officials, and ultimately overthrow the government.


Committing suicide in a Wal-Mart doesn't seem like a very effective means of taking of a courthouse.

Still, that at least makes more sense than taking over a courthouse to overthrow the government.

Sounds like "police sources" are being coached on how to sculpt a narrative here; or, of course, they're not police sources at all.

I have seen no evidence of racism anywhere on their social media, that is all I have to go by but it doesnt seem to be there, to the contrary in fact, there is no N word, no Jew, no typical racist fare at all.

One post was like "I apologize to all the illegal immigrants who came here looking for a better life and found our nation in disrepair, I would like to invite you to rise up with my Patriot friends to make it right."

Just not real typical White Supremacist fare, now maybe in person they were just not on FB but I think youre right, looks like someone building a narrative as they go.
Hunter
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby Hunter » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:40 am

Stochastic terrorism; Incite people to violence and then stand back and claim ignorance.
Hunter
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby American Dream » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:43 am

Wombaticus Rex » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:29 am wrote:Where is the racism? Have I missed any data points that support the claim this couple was racist?


I'm not sure what this is responding to but the only relevant quote from VICE Magazine that I can find is:


On Facebook and in YouTube videos, posted under the username USATruePatriot, Jerad Miller identifies himself as a supporter of the Patriot Movement—an umbrella term that encompasses right-wing militias, white supremacists, and sovereign citizens—and talks regularly about chemtrails, tyranny, and overthrowing the federal government.


[emphasis added]
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby Hunter » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:59 am

Right not all who are in the Patriot Movement are necessarily racist. Like I said I dont see any evidence of overt racism in his or her FB posts. I dont think they were White Supremacist though. I may be wrong I just have no evidence to go on, I cant hear youtube videos so I cant speak for what he says on them, however. I dont even think these two were Sovereign Citizens there are no rants about gold fringed flags and maritime law. There are no rants about Jews and international banksters. I think we have just have a couple of young impressionable minds here who listened to and read Alex Jones and got whipped in to a right wing gun nuttery frenzy.

I dont mean to imply such people are actually intelligent or intellectual in OUR SENSE but in my experience the White Supremacists and Sovereign Citizen, in some sense, represent the intellectual wing of these shitbags, it tends to be people who read a lot of books and form detailed philosophical worldviews about Race and Government. These two are more more like TYRANNY! FEMA CAMPS! GUN GRABS! HALP! HALP! I dont see even any posts about Obama and Kenya on his pages. They used the Swatzis to put on the cops to imply the cops were the gestapo/SS etc not to imply they themselves were neo nazis like some media and maybe police sources are trying to suggest. I can only vouch for what I am seeing on social media and this is not an attempt to defend this shitbag who obviously fucked up and brainwashed this girl but I think it is important to be honest about who and what these people are by looking at the evidence, headlines like RACIST WHITE SUPREMACIST NEO NAZIs killing LEO, makes for good publicity but it doesnt seem to be what we really have here from the evidence on social media. He just has one crazy Alex Jones post after another on his FB very little in the way of his own writing and such but when he does write there is no evidence of racism in his comments and in fact he rails against fascism and the nazis not for them.

Even more so what it looks like to me is that these two were at the end of the line, their parents did not approve of their marriage, they are young, she works at hobby lobby he dressed up as peter pan, batman and joker and did street performances in vegas, it looks like they came out to vegas thinking they would join up with other patriots and be part of something big and when those very patriots rejected them because they had drug charges in their past and he was a felon, they had nothing left to live for and no money with no future and finally just snapped and said fuck it.
Hunter
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby Hunter » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:23 am

elfismiles » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:33 am wrote:This is the first witness footage I've seen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18zMD--4vA4

EDIT: No disrespect to this witness, but judging from her thick glasses I wonder how well she observed the perps. The reporter says the witness says "she didn't see or hear the suspect leave the restaurant"... I'm not suggesting anything by these observations, I just have to wonder when we don't see footage or have good first-hand eye-witness accounts. The reporter at the beginning of the clip says that eye-witness accounts are pouring in so I'm sure there are more / better witnesses.

Also Waltmart is full of cameras so that whole event at Walmart is on video, I dont know if they will relase it but Walmart is covered in every square inch in cameras so its all there for sure.
Hunter
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby American Dream » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:13 pm

Hunter » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:59 am wrote: I think we have just have a couple of young impressionable minds here who listened to and read Alex Jones and got whipped in to a right wing gun nuttery frenzy.

I dont mean to imply such people are actually intelligent or intellectual in OUR SENSE but in my experience the White Supremacists and Sovereign Citizen, in some sense, represent the intellectual wing of these shitbags, it tends to be people who read a lot of books and form detailed philosophical worldviews about Race and Government. These two are more more like TYRANNY! FEMA CAMPS! GUN GRABS! HALP! HALP! I dont see even any posts about Obama and Kenya on his pages. They used the Swatzis to put on the cops to imply the cops were the gestapo/SS etc not to imply they themselves were neo nazis like some media and maybe police sources are trying to suggest. I can only vouch for what I am seeing on social media and this is not an attempt to defend this shitbag who obviously fucked up and brainwashed this girl but I think it is important to be honest about who and what these people are by looking at the evidence, headlines like RACIST WHITE SUPREMACIST NEO NAZIs killing LEO, makes for good publicity but it doesnt seem to be what we really have here from the evidence on social media. He just has one crazy Alex Jones post after another on his FB very little in the way of his own writing and such but when he does write there is no evidence of racism in his comments and in fact he rails against fascism and the nazis not for them.


There is a circular logic to some of this gun nut stuff:


Image


Image




http://texasbuddha.wordpress.com/2008/0 ... r-archive/
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby Hunter » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:26 pm

Well that is the rub isnt it, they want to fight the gun grab by going out and being irresponsible with guns and killing random innocent people, real fucking brilliant plan that. THAT I imagine is what makes people think there is more than meets the eye in some of these cases. I lived a mile from where Loughner went off in Arizona when I was teaching there, it was absolutely insane and the first time I have ever had anything like that happen up close.
Hunter
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby Hunter » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:45 pm

Here is something to chew on, these two have many videos of them appearing at the Million Mask March wearing Guy Fawkes masks and hanging with the Anons. Now that would support a headline like "Anon cyber terrorists kill cops." Not saying that is what they are but at least you could make a case with the videos as evidence, but see that doesnt have MASS APPEAL like other buzzwords, Neo Nazi, White Supremacist, Sovereign Citizen, Right Wing Militia etc.
Hunter
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Las Vegas Shooting Spree, June 2014

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:52 pm

Hunter » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:45 am wrote:Here is something to chew on, these two have many videos of them appearing at the Million Mask March wearing Guy Fawkes masks and hanging with the Anons. Now that would support a headline like "Anon cyber terrorists kill cops." Not saying that is what they are but at least you could make a case with the videos as evidence, but see that doesnt have MASS APPEAL like other buzzwords, Neo Nazi, White Supremacist, Sovereign Citizen, Right Wing Militia etc.


There was the thwarted bomb plot at Occupy Cleveland. I believe this avoided more widespread media coverage because it was a fairly clear case of entrapment.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4993
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)


PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 155 guests