Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Burnt Hill » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:43 pm

Orlando Gunman Excelled at Firing Range Tests, Records Show

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/23/us/orlando-gunman-excelled-at-firing-range-tests-records-show.html?_r=0

By RICHARD PÉREZ-PEÑAJUNE 22, 2016

The gunman who committed the massacre in an Orlando, Fla., nightclub was a skilled marksman who repeatedly passed firing range tests with near-perfect scores, state records released Wednesday showed.

The gunman, Omar Mateen, took the tests nine times with at least three different handguns, to obtain and keep the state firearms license he needed to work as an armed security guard.

In all, Mr. Mateen fired 10 series of 48 shots at paper targets — two series for his initial licensing, and then one for each license renewal. Each time, he easily exceeded the minimum score, 168 out of 240. His lowest score was 203, and on seven of his 10 series, he scored 231 or higher, according to the records from the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, which were obtained by the group Judicial Watch under the state’s open records law.

He first took the test in September 2007, using a .357-caliber Smith & Wesson revolver. He took it several more times with a .38-caliber Smith & Wesson revolver, though it was not clear that the same weapon was used each of those times, the last test being in August 2015. And twice, he used a 9-millimeter Smith & Wesson semiautomatic.

Each firing range test was accompanied by a written test; Mr. Mateen scored 100 percent most times, and never below 90 percent.

It was not clear how often he practiced. In the June 12 attack on Pulse, a gay nightclub in Orlando, his primary weapon was an assault rifle, and he also used a handgun.

Forty-nine people were killed and 53 were wounded in the assault, and Mr. Mateen, 29, who declared allegiance to the Islamic State amid the slaughter, was killed in a shootout with the police. The F.B.I. is investigating the shooting as an act of terrorism, and also looking into the possibility that it was a hate crime.

Mr. Mateen, who listed himself on the paperwork in 2007 as standing 5 feet 11 inches and weighing 220 pounds, worked as an armed guard from that year until his death for G4S, a major private security firm. To be licensed, he passed a psychological evaluation.

Previously, he had worked briefly as a state prison guard but was dismissed before completing his training period for reasons that have not been made public.

A version of this article appears in print on June 23, 2016, on page A20 of the New York edition with the headline: Gunman in Orlando Massacre Excelled in Tests at Firing Range, Records Show.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby brekin » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:52 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:
Terrorist's Wife Found Dead In Apparent Suicide

Omar Mateen's Last Victim: His Wife

By Kevin Wan and William Sullivan June 23

Noor Zahi Salman Mateen, wife of the Orlando shooter, has been found dead in a skip in Langley, Virginia. A police source, speaking off the record and on condition of anonymity, said she had shot herself after climbing into the skip. Evidently Ms. Mateen (29) left a suicide note admitting foreknowledge of the massacre and saying, "Allah forgive me, I cannot live with the guilt.".

Drawn Into Horror By A Man She Loved

[...]
PAGE 12: Inside The Mind Of A Tormented Muslim Wife. PAGE 14: Her Struggle With Mateen's Sexuality And His Growing Madness PAGE 15: Was She A Lesbian?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html


Perhaps there should be a rule about creating posts that look like actual news stories with a link?
Even for satirical purposes (which this one is a pretty thin rationale for) it will only confuse/misdirect people and in time someone else could repost or link to creating a morass of confusion. Remember: Rumors start with you.

All, please print out the following and tape it next to your computer screen. Mac, please tape yours over your computer screen.

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I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:07 pm

Burnt Hill » 23 Jun 2016 03:10 wrote:
Agent Orange Cooper » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:25 pm wrote:Some stuff I read about on FB:

City Officials Reportedly Won't Turnover Fire Code Inspection Records for Pulse Nightclub
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/city-of ... nightclub/

Here is a 3D model of the interior of the nightclub:
http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2016/b ... ce-3d-map/

The place has 8 parking spots that I can see:
Image

Obviously people could park elsewhere, but it gives you an idea of the expected occupancy of the building.

300 people in here? They would have been packed like sardines. I suppose it's possible, but then how the fuck does one guy with a giant gun not get dogpiled immediately?


They were packed in like sardines, it was their most popular night -Latin Night.
There was valet parking in various off-site lots.
You would certainly be risking your life to jump an active shooter.
Hard to say how any individual would respond, perhaps some did try to jump him?
I thought fire code info was public access, probably local shenanigans.
But keep digging AOC!


Do you have any reason to believe that the maximum legal capacity of this place exceeds 300? Just because Latin night was relatively popular night does not mean 300 people were there. The place looks like the maximum legal capacity would be around 150 or 200 at the very most.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:23 pm

FourthBase » 23 Jun 2016 09:48 wrote:Surveillance video exists, then?


Yes, I'm sure it exists unless the feds destroyed it. And an anonymous law enforcement source has told us what it shows, so of course we can take that info to the bank.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:49 pm

Burnt Hill » 23 Jun 2016 19:09 wrote:
MacCruiskeen » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:13 pm wrote:It's now on the official FBI timeline that Omar Mateen visited Pulse as a customer that night but left at midnight, two hours before the massacre started. (We are told by anonymous Authorities, off the record, that he came back and dunnit, but no evidence whatsoever has been presented to support that claim.)

Who served him his drinks? Where are the regulars who saw him there between ten and midnight and what can they tell us about him? No hack has even bothered to ask!

Was he ever there at all that night?


Why would the FBI suggest that Mateen was there, left, and then returned? How does it serve whatever motivations the feds have?

I look at a lot of it this way- wouldn't we be hearing from bartenders, bouncers and clubbers if no one saw the Shooter identified as Mateen there?
His pictures have been released, no one has said that they never saw that guy there. Many have said that they saw the Shooter with certain amounts of description, the Shooter has been identified as Mateen, but no one has said it wasn't Mateen. Journalists suck, but where are the tweets and FB posts saying " I saw someone else" like there was in San Bernardino? :shrug:


But San Bernardino is also very instructive here. Even though there is evidence that the crime was committed by three white male shooters, and even though not a single witness ever saw a woman shooter, there was almost no outcry from any witnesses about this crime's getting pinned on Farook and his wife. People just can't believe the authorities would lie to them about stuff this big, Or if they do realize this, then it scares the living crap out of them. Either way, no outcry.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby daedelus » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:50 pm

Do you have any reason to believe that the maximum legal capacity of this place exceeds 300? Just because Latin night was relatively popular night does not mean 300 people were there. The place looks like the maximum legal capacity would be around 150 or 200 at the very most.


I'd need to actually see a dimensioned floor plan and know the full width of all paths of egress to do a proper calculation, but Building code would put it at 7s.f. per occupant for the net floor area. Its listed as a 4500s.f. building. so we get a back of napkin max occupant load of 642. There is NO way they would meet egress requirements for a load that high especially with only one main exit, an exit onto the patio, and the side utility exit. 300 is probably about right for a nightclub of that size, based on what I know of clubs/bars/venues that friends of mine own. But that would be the MAX, and from what we've been told they may very well have been at max capacity for the "ever popular" latin night.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:21 pm

I was talking about this with a cop last night. He said he assumed the reason the SWAT team just sat around for hours even as they were hearing shots coming from inside the bar was the OPD's fear of contracting AIDS. He also thought this was the reason bar patrons rather than ambulances had to carry the victims.

I thought, "Now that's a conspiracy theory."

To me, any way you slice it, people should be protesting their unresponsive, lying and/or murderous government.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:33 pm

How many times does this have to be repeated? In how many threads? In how bold a typeface? That's why I started the other thread, to make that clear, and to keep this one free of such repetition:

No eyewitness has ever identified or even described the shooter in any way. Not even vaguely. There is only one exception I can find: a woman who said "white male". (another said "latino guy" but it is by no means clear that she even saw his face.)

And every single eyewitness statement we've heard has been cut to ribbons before broadcast.

Burnt Hill wrote:His pictures have been released, no one has said that they never saw that guy there. Many have said that they saw the Shooter with certain amounts of description, the Shooter has been identified as Mateen, but no one has said it wasn't Mateen. Journalists suck, but where are the tweets and FB posts saying " I saw someone else" like there was in San Bernardino? :shrug:


PEOPLE ARE FRIGHTENED. Why do you think his wife Noor is completely invisible and inaudible? How do you think eyewitnesses would be received -- by the cops, by the feds, by the media -- if they came forward now and contradicted the hallowed Official Account?

Would YOU feel safe doing it, Burnt Hill? "It's not true, that wasn't Omar, I knew him well to see."
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:40 pm

One thing that really irks me is this either smug or ignorant speculation about what people dancing on a dark and loud dance floor would have done if they were suddenly all falling over dead and wounded, or having the dead and wounded fall on them. In those possibly fractions of a second between just dancing and the moment when your head is blown off by the fire from a machine-gun -- that's right, a fucking machine gun, regardless of what name the gun fetishists want to apply to it -- who the fuck even knows what is happening, let alone sees the shooter, shooters, or the robot from Breaking Bad? But that's not the point either. How dare we make any assumptions about what people suddenly transported from a party club to a warzone* should be thinking or perceiving, let alone doing? Situational awareness doesn't just vary by situation and person but for the same person at different times. And here this asshole writing the above assumes that everyone's going to spontaneously transform into attack-zombies with unerring sense of what to do. Otherwise, you know, either they had what's coming to them or didn't exist in the first place.

* Thanks to the god-given right of morons to legally obtain weapons of war -- assault rifles, instantaneous human mass-killing machines operable if necessary by children -- so that they can wank off to fantasies about how they and their really macho buds are going to overthrow the Obama Tyranny, or defend themselves against invading Soviet Islamists (shooting straighter and quicker than Eastwood) or otherwise be on the side of the angels when the Troubles start.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby divideandconquer » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:46 pm

Foolish faith in authority.

They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as truth, rather than truth as authority.--Gerald Massey


“Plays, farces, spectacles, gladiators, strange beasts, medals, pictures, and other such opiates, these were for ancient peoples the bait toward slavery, the price of their liberty, the instruments of tyranny. By these practices and enticements the ancient dictators so successfully lulled their subjects under the yoke, that the stupefied peoples, fascinated by the pastimes and vain pleasures flashed before their eyes, learned subservience as naively, but not so creditably, as little children learn to read by looking at bright picture books.” - Etienne de La Boétie,


“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, and intolerable...” H.L. Mencken
'I see clearly that man in this world deceives himself by admiring and esteeming things which are not, and neither sees nor esteems the things which are.' — St. Catherine of Genoa
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:57 pm

Thanks for those quotes, divideandconquer.

Imagine Mencken reading this farrago. Imagine Mark Twain. Imagine Karl Marx, or Karl Kraus. Imagine what they would say.

Ach.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:02 pm

A miilion dollars reward to any poster who can produce even one description from any eyewitness (including the cops who allegedly had those two separate close.range shootouts at 2:08) of what the shooter was wearing.

Tactical gear? Full-body armor? Helmet? Mask? A business suit? A diving bell? Hot pants?

Anything, even the slightest description. Must be easy to find, right? A cash prize awaits.

Image

The police chief presumably also saw the shooter's corpse, immediately after he had come out of that hole in the wall, all guns blazing, just like Cagney. But the police chief ain't sayin' nuthin.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:22 pm

I say the shooter was wearing only a top hat and a kilt. Prove me wrong. (Please.)
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:26 pm

I see you're becoming more rational about this horrendous mass murder, Mac.
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Re: Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Burnt Hill » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:29 pm

MacCruiskeen » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:33 pm wrote:
PEOPLE ARE FRIGHTENED. Why do you think his wife Noor is completely invisible and inaudible? How do you think eyewitnesses would be received -- by the cops, by the feds, by the media -- if they came forward now and contradicted the hallowed Official Account?

Would YOU feel safe doing it, Burnt Hill? "It's not true, that wasn't Omar, I knew him well to see."


I fully understand your point about how no one has positively ID'ed Omar Mateen as the shooter at the club.
I think you are misunderstanding(maybe not) my questions about no one stating he was mis-identified, but that's probably because I phrased it clumsily. Moving on from that-
I would guess that Noor Salman sp? is simply out of site to get away from negative publicity, nothing more. I would hope that she has family and loved ones that are protecting her in that very way.
And I don't get the feeling that people are frightened. I have friends right near there that went to one of the memorials, people are talking and speculating, and some of it is about fear, but not the fear of contradicting the official story. There is certainly no bold face and capitalized fear that I am aware of.

Oh, and yes I would.
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