What's Happening? It? (TRIGGERS UPON TRIGGERS)

[82_28]

I'm wondering, out of curiosity, if it would make any difference to these naysayers if they knew Jeff Wells took Pizzagate seriously?

Pul-ease, as if no one here has ever disagreed with Jeff before. But go ahead - ask him, whydoncha.

Yeah. Ask him. Answer would be no, I would imagine, but would be more interested in the fact that it is an issue at all and how much it has "gripped" the media.

[dada]

There are people at RI who reject Pizzagate almost entirely because they think it is being propagated by Racist Misogynist Trolls. That's really it.

Yeh, that would be me. Trolls, don't like 'em. That's my war, though, I don't expect anyone to fight my battles.

Really, I don't care that much about trolls. Wizards are worse. I would reinstate the draft to fight wizards, if I could.

[guruilla]

I'm wondering, out of curiosity, if it would make any difference to these naysayers if they knew Jeff Wells took Pizzagate seriously?

Pul-ease, as if no one here has ever disagreed with Jeff before. But go ahead - ask him, whydoncha.

Yeah. Ask him. Answer would be no, I would imagine, but would be more interested in the fact that it is an issue at all and how much it has "gripped" the media.

Image2.jpg

[Jerky]

Yeah, that was a month ago. Ask him now and see what kind of answer you get.

J.

[Jerky]

By the way, Guru, do you still believe in the Podesta Pedophile Hot Tub Party storyline that you were pushing with such relish and gusto a few pages back?

I need your updated take on that particular #Pizzagate topping for a piece I'm working on that will very much be of interest to you when it's published.

J.

[Jerky]

I just wanted to make sure that it was clear to anyone following this insane bullshit -- particularly those of you who have been falling all over yourselves to praise and flatter your favorite brave truth-telling patriot guru, Guru -- that the email about the "Podesta Pedophile Hot Tub Party" - the very same email that Guru so sneeringly rubbed in my face as PROOF POSITIVE of the obvious guilt of that whole rancid crew, the UNASSAILABLE TRUTH-BOMB of SOLID EVIDENCE that only the most compromised Satano-pedo-cannibalistic of Evil-Enablers and Disinfo-Bots (like yours truly, apparently) would DARE to attempt to "spin into" something innocent - has indeed been "spun into" something innocent... not only by reality, but by the saner half of the goon squad to which Guru, himself, belongs.

http://usdefensewatch.com/2016/11/wikil ... years-old/

Oh well, not to worry! I'm sure Guru, just like his buddies at 4Chan and Reddit and Voat all do, has got a thousand more instances of PROOF POSITIVE and UNASSAILABLE TRUTH BOMBS of SOLID EVIDENCE at the ready, and that he's more than willing to rub those into my guilty-as-hell, shameless Satano-pedo-cannibalist-defending face, as a shameless disinfo-bot, such as myself, so richly deserves.

J.

PS - Oh, and I'm also sure the Luzzatto family don't mind being the object of this kind of mass public fetishistic obsessive fantasizing by the likes of you and your ilk. I'm sure a mother with three young children, who has been so cavalierly "exposed" by those glowing saints at Wikileaks, will come through this just fine. And I'm certainly sure no CRAZY people with obsessive tendencies will use this opportunity to track this innocent family down and make their lives a living Hell for no good reason. It's not like that's the world we're living in now or anything, right?

[Harvey]

Jerky, you've made some inescapable points of logic and morality which become lost in wild conflations plastered over by your holier than thou self righteous anger. Very much like some of those you criticise, strangely enough. You erect unnecessary straw men as if to weaken inarguable truths. Yes, real people are and risk being harmed by and because of all of these stories.

I just wanted to make sure that it was clear to anyone following this insane bullshit

More insane than all the wars the USA is engaged in? More insane than the current nuclear brinkmanship? The economic policies which are forcing more Americans into long hours, low wages, eating food riddled with chemicals, the groundwater poisoned, climate feedback reaching a point of accelerating heating despite the fact we all know how to solve it? More insane than all of that? Perhaps. Isn't that the point. To understand the nature of our disease?

particularly those of you who have been falling all over yourselves to praise and flatter your favorite brave truth-telling patriot guru, Guru

Your own holier than thou moment.

The email about the "Podesta Pedophile Hot Tub Party" - the very same email that Guru so sneeringly rubbed in my face as PROOF POSITIVE of the obvious guilt of that whole rancid crew, the UNASSAILABLE TRUTH-BOMB of SOLID EVIDENCE that only the most compromised Satano-pedo-cannibalistic of Evil-Enablers and Disinfo-Bots (like yours truly, apparently) would DARE to attempt to "spin into" something innocent - has indeed been "spun into" something innocent... not only by reality, but by the saner half of the goon squad to which Guru, himself, belongs.

Mistakes are being made and compounded. Most of that isn't happening here, it's happening elsewhere. Some facts remain. It's called process. But yes. You might choose to help to separate the signal from the noise if it concerns you.

Oh well, not to worry! I'm sure Guru, just like his buddies at 4Chan and Reddit and Voat all do, has got a thousand more instances of PROOF POSITIVE and UNASSAILABLE TRUTH BOMBS of SOLID EVIDENCE at the ready, and that he's more than willing to rub those into my guilty-as-hell, shameless Satano-pedo-cannibalist-defending face, as a shameless disinfo-bot, such as myself, so richly deserves.

You give as good as you get, surely.

Oh, and I'm also sure the Luzzatto family don't mind being the object of this kind of mass public fetishistic obsessive fantasizing by the likes of you and your ilk.

Much better rhetorically, still, too much ad hominem. Isn't that more or less what you keep accusing others of?

I'm sure a mother with three young children, who has been so cavalierly "exposed" by those glowing saints at Wikileaks will come through this just fine.

Despite the fact that you have no evidence of any kind that Pizzagate was wikileaks intention or even possible to anticipate.

This is the kind of conflation you ought to guard yourself against. There are numerous crimes exposed by the emails alone which are yet to be prosecuted by any agency. Wikileaks has done more to create an informed citizenry than most of us could in several lifetimes. But I take it you would you rather not have wikileaks at all? It's certainly less possible than ever before to shout tinfoil because of them, people can no longer pretend that they do not know what is happening in their name.

I hope you'll be just as rigorous with claims of Russian stooges as you will against claims of paedophilia.

And I'm certainly sure no CRAZY people with obsessive tendencies will use this opportunity to track this innocent family down and make their lives a living Hell for no good reason. It's not like that's the world we're living in now or anything, right?

Another excellent point, shame it was rather submerged by much of the rest of your argument.

[Blue]

The name one victim trope has the effect of trying to smear Pizzagate as "nothing to see here".

Talk about smear. Not only are CPP, its employees and patrons reputations tarred and their jobs and lives threatened but the surrounding businesses are as well.

In the days before an armed man stormed into a local pizza restaurant looking to “self-investigate” fake news reports, several nearby businesses had been receiving what they called “disturbing” and “graphic” threats.

“Sometimes they would call 10-15 times an hour saying: ‘We are going to kill you!’” said Bradley Graham, the co-owner of Politics and Prose, a popular bookstore near Comet Ping Pong, the restaurant at the center of the fake news stories that alleged a child sex ring involving the Hillary Clinton campaign.

“They were disgusting, grotesque and violent death threats,” added his co-owner, Lissa Muscatine, who also received personal threats on her Twitter account.

The calls unsettled the business owners, as the fake news stories mushroomed into a rightwing internet conspiracy – one of a host fabricated reports that proliferated this election season. They grew wary of strange visitors who showed up at their stores taking pictures and asking about secret tunnels. They wondered if the threats would grow into something bigger, something dangerous.

Nearby business owners expressed relief on Monday that it wasn’t something worse.

Abdel Hammad, the owner of Besta Pizza, located three doors from Comet, found his store dragged into the mess when internet conspiracies drew a connection to the vague resemblance between his restaurant’s logo and a symbol apparently used by pedophiles. Hammad, an Egyptian immigrant who barely knows Comet’s owners and did not support Clinton, said he has received constant, alarming calls for three weeks.

Abdel Hammad
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Abdel Hammad, owner of Besta Pizza, said he received death threats at work. Photograph: Les Carpenter for the Guardian
“They were threatening to blow our heads off and blow our store up and blow (up) our entire organization,” Hammad said.

At one point, Hammad grew so angry with the calls that he challenged one of them to “show up and show his face”.

“He hung up, it was all talk,” Hammad said. “Nobody showed up.”

Then he paused.

“But now someone has,” he said.

He said he reported several of the calls to the police but said “nothing happened”. This even after an incident several days ago in which his manager, Ibrahima Diallo, confronted two women who had come to the counter asking to see the tunnels. When Diallo tried to chase them out, he said they slammed the door on his hand, breaking it. Diallo was able to get the plate number off the women’s car but when he gave it to police he said he was told: “It’s a civil matter, there’s nothing we can do.”

On Monday both Graham and Muscatine, former Washington Post writers, were forced to look reporters in the eye and say with a straight face that no tunnels existed beneath their store. “Our business is not connected in any physical way with any of the other stores,” Graham said wearily. They had reported the death threats to their district council representative and wondered why it had taken a man with a gun to finally draw interest from the police.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... on-threats

[divideandconquer]

More insane than all the wars the USA is engaged in? More insane than the current nuclear brinkmanship? The economic policies which are forcing more Americans into long hours, low wages, eating food riddled with chemicals, the groundwater poisoned..

Yes, they're guilty-as-hell, they're shameless, and some have already been proven to be Satanic-pedos, so I don't understand why all of the links, connections, and circumstantial evidence is so easily dismissed given what "some of the best minds here" "know about the intersection of power and pedophilia."

Pizzagate is a masterful psyop that I'm sure will accomplish the goals of its creators; however, it was not created out of whole cloth. They took something very real, threw in "way too crazy to be real" and everything else but the proverbial 'kitchen sink', dug a few rabbit holes to misdirect, hired some internet trolls, and then associated it with Trump-supporting neo-nazi racists and called it a day.

To all these great minds who think there is nothing to pizzagate, please provide links to the research that shows there is nothing to it? Links to innocent explanations of all that's been exposed? Explanations for why the emails make more sense with the code words than without? Because, you know, the MSM would never draw conclusions without first rigorously researching the issue for themselves. If they claim fake news, well, then, it's gotta be fake..

[Heaven Swan]

I am part of a large community of survivors. We have perpetrators, facilities and locations, and sometimes dates in common in our histories. An investigation would require multiple interviews, and forensics, often on site. If enough work was done, a clear picture of how many local rings are operating and how they are tied to national and elite rings, would begin to take shape. Unfortunately this work would require absolute professionalism, resources, stealth, and no small amount of risk taking. It is the opposite of dancing with internet chimeras as we see with pizzagate.

The way to get demonstrable connection is through victim testimony and other forms testable evidence.

Well, I certainly agree with you there. I just don't see the two things as being mutually exclusive. From what I can tell, Pizzagate has resulted in hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of more people who are 'woke' to the idea of ritual sexual abuse of children who previously were not. I don't see how that's a problem. I would say to wait and see where we are in six months to a year. If everyone has forgotten about it & Comet Ping Pong is exonerated, then I will eat my words, but this 'dancing with internet chimeras' in which so many are now engaged may simply be the corkscrew needed to open pandora's box. I don't think we should underestimate the power of 'meme magic' (a fantastical term for the effect & power of integrated consciousness engendered by the internet). I remain optimistic.

I sincerely hope you're right Agent Orange. People are talking about this but I wonder how it will shake out in the long term? With the McMartin case, even after the tunnels and Satanic artifacts were unearthed (which they mostly didn't hear about due to the usual news blackout) the general consensus, even among those who should know better, is that the whole matter is a glaring example of how false memes can whip up a frenzy of hysteria in otherwise reasonable people.

Also, I have to wonder if these internet sleuths would be just as active if the suspected pedophiles were Republicans. I can't wade through that Voat stuff on a regular basis. Are they looking into the Trump child rape case?

[Jerky]

More insane than all the wars the USA is engaged in? More insane than the current nuclear brinkmanship? The economic policies which are forcing more Americans into long hours, low wages, eating food riddled with chemicals, the groundwater poisoned..

Yes, they're guilty-as-hell, they're shameless, and some have already been proven to be Satanic-pedos, so I don't understand why all of the links, connections, and circumstantial evidence is so easily dismissed given what "some of the best minds here" "know about the intersection of power and pedophilia."

Pizzagate is a masterful psyop that I'm sure will accomplish the goals of its creators; however, it was not created out of whole cloth. They took something very real, threw in "way too crazy to be real" and everything else but the proverbial 'kitchen sink', dug a few rabbit holes to misdirect, hired some internet trolls, and then associated it with Trump-supporting neo-nazi racists and called it a day.

To all these great minds who think there is nothing to pizzagate, please provide links to the research that shows there is nothing to it? Links to innocent explanations of all that's been exposed? Explanations for why the emails make more sense with the code words than without? Because, you know, the MSM would never draw conclusions without first rigorously researching the issue for themselves. If they claim fake news, well, then, it's gotta be fake..

Okay, ignoring the fact that -- unless you include all the sexually repressed Republican activists, some meth-addled Bible Belt preachers, and a few poncy British Tories who have been shown to enjoy a bit of rough trade with rent boys -- NO cases of Satanic pedophilia have ever been proven... I'll bite.

Throw me your three most favorite, knocked-out-of-the-park pieces of Pizzagate evidence, and let me see what I can figure out about them.

If these pieces of evidence require that I buy into an entire series of OTHER connected bits of evidence, at least attempt to include those elements in your listing.

I promise not to use insulting language or otherwise allow my growing outrage over this increasingly dangerous and anti-intellectual real-world game get the better of me.

Sincerely,
yer old pal Jerky

[KUAN]

Jerilla has made a balanced argument

[Jerky]

More insane than all the wars the USA is engaged in? More insane than the current nuclear brinkmanship? The economic policies which are forcing more Americans into long hours, low wages, eating food riddled with chemicals, the groundwater poisoned, climate feedback reaching a point of accelerating heating despite the fact we all know how to solve it? More insane than all of that? Perhaps. Isn't that the point. To understand the nature of our disease?

Harvey, I sincerely thank you for taking my attempts at good faith exploration of this particular issue in the spirit in which they are intended, and I also sincerely thank you for your heartfelt advice about my allowing my emotions to get the better of me, but dear sweet CHRIST man...

Are you seriously suggesting that I need to propose workable solutions to EVERY SINGLE CRISIS WE FACE AS A SPECIES before I am allowed to voice my opinion about what has, at this point, been exposed as a pretty obvious mass psychological operation launched and nurtured by obvious fascists, who seem to have succeeded in weaponizing our collective doubt, hate and suspicions about each other to the point where a critical mass of us are ready to believe ANY crazy thing as long as it somehow flatters us by justifying the beliefs they put into our heads in the first fucking place?

And before anybody claims not to be part of that paradigm because they, themselves, aren't fascists, let me just say that y'all are doing a pretty good job of proving you don't have to be a fascist to fall for fascist lies in a way that makes fascism's job a whole lot easier for it... but that's something some of us have known all along, and a select few have witnessed first hand.

And finally, you DO realize, I hope, that if the Podestas, or the Clintons, or whoever the hell the targets turn out to be in the coming months, ever took the kinds of steps necessary to right the wrongs you listed in your response to me... they would be strung up by their toes and roasted over an open fire before you could even say the words "abuse of power". The sad truth of the matter is, they're just as stuck in this awful matrix as the rest of us are.

In any case, I'll try to keep the usable parts of your advice in mind as I plan out my future contributions relating to PizzaGate. So thank you for that.

J.

[stefano]

RI has changed. A lot.

This election has changed RI, as it's changed so much else.

[Harvey]

Are you seriously suggesting that I need to propose workable solutions to EVERY SINGLE CRISIS WE FACE AS A SPECIES before I am allowed to voice my opinion about what has, at this point, been exposed as a pretty obvious mass psychological operation launched and nurtured by obvious fascists, who seem to have succeeded in weaponizing our collective doubt, hate and suspicions about each other to the point where a critical mass of us are ready to believe ANY crazy thing as long as it somehow flatters us by justifying the beliefs they put into our heads in the first fucking place?

Obviously not. In answer to your real question, you admit that they are related. How exactly is what remains to be seen.

And finally, you DO realize, I hope, that if the Podestas, or the Clintons, or whoever the hell the targets turn out to be in the coming months, ever took the kinds of steps necessary to right the wrongs you listed in your response to me... they would be strung up by their toes and roasted over an open fire before you could even say the words "abuse of power".

That's possible, we don't know, we've never tried. Not really. The majority of people haven't had the opportunity to step into their shoes and try. The system is what it does, self selecting at every level. By design, by philosophy, by contingency and by emergent organisation.

The sad truth of the matter is, they're just as stuck in this awful matrix as the rest of us are.

True, and exactly what they tell us implicitly. You might equally truthfully remark that they appear to work very hard to maintain the 'awful matrix,' and it suits them very well.