Fuck Ron Paul

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Just a question

Postby ninakat » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:31 pm

medicis wrote:I know what my top priorities are and which are not. For example, Obama-Clinton may be more tolerant of gays and other behaviors but the facts that they both support nuking Iran and the goals of the corporatist/NWO powers make any social tolerance they espouse to be quite irrelevant to me at this point in history.

The nation is about to be lost (if not already) and to me, the most important item is to preserve the Constitutional Republic.

We may debate items 2 to infinity.


I understand your point, and have always felt that gay rights are actually way down the list of priorities (especially now), which is why I was willing to overlook some of Ron Paul's deficiencies on other matters. Any candidate who's anti-war always gets my ear, for awhile anyway. I've seen enough of Ron Paul's positions now to realize that ON BALANCE, he's not someone I can vote for, and it's not just the gay issue -- it's his other extreme positions (thank you chlamor for a excellent posting) that tell me he's basically an enemy of The People, even if he has some ideas that SOUND like he's their friend.

So, what's wrong with Kucinich? Or Mike Gravel? Light-years ahead of Ron Paul, and just an unelectable.
User avatar
ninakat
 
Posts: 2904
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: "Nothing he's got he really needs."
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby MASONIC PLOT » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:40 pm

Some excellent points coming from all sides here. Keep them coming. I posted this article on another forum that is mostly made up of people who are into gold and silver hoarding, generally decent people who are suspicous of the federal reserve and its fiat monetary system. Sadly I found out the hard way that most of them are fucking bigots who APPLAUDED openly and loudly about the fact that Ron Paul might be a racist. The thread turned ugly in a hurry as I had to whip out a can of whup ass and set the bigots straight. Fucking racism should NEVER be tolerated on any level. Sexual orientation, gender, color and creed should have aboslutely no bearing on how we treat another person. As I told the folks on the other thread who feel they are better than the unwashed masses (read, blacks, gays, jews etc), they too shit and bleed like every one else. I certainly support a persons right to be racist but as I have said before, I also support my right to expose the fucking ignorant bastards for what they are. If Ron Paul is in fact a racist, and I do not know nor claim that he is, but if he is, and some of his comments indicate that he might be, then he is simply unfit to hold any public office in this country.
Last edited by MASONIC PLOT on Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MASONIC PLOT
 

Re: Why I oppose Ron Paul

Postby Crow » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:40 pm

chlamor wrote: Consider Ron Paul as a political indicator species. The fact that he can even be considered by those who profess to be "liberal", "progressive", or any other post-modern fungible political label, shows how wildly to the right has swung the American body politic.


Hear, hear.
User avatar
Crow
 
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:10 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Crow » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:44 pm

MASONIC PLOT wrote:I dont believe in government, period, so I really do not want anything out of any president. My vision is small, self-governing and ECO-FRIENDLY communities of people each doing their part to make the community a better place as a whole. Idealism? Yes. Impossible? No.

What are we without ideals? Isnt that what sets us apart from the rest of the living universe?


MP -- and I say this with complete respect -- why are you not living in a place like this: http://www.dancingrabbit.org/ already?
User avatar
Crow
 
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:10 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby harflimon » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:47 pm

.
Last edited by harflimon on Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The belief in coincidence is the prevailing superstition of the Age of Science.
harflimon
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:55 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby MASONIC PLOT » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:51 pm

MP -- and I say this with complete respect -- why are you not living in a place like this: http://www.dancingrabbit.org/ already?



Nice place, thanks for sharing that link. I will get a lot of enjoyment out of it I am certain.

As to why I am not living there or a place similar, well I am presently busy building my own and waiting for others to come along and join me.

Welcome to Arizona:

Image
Last edited by MASONIC PLOT on Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MASONIC PLOT
 

"Concentration"

Postby chlamor » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:00 pm

It reminds me of that old game show, "Concentration". When only a few squares were revealed, it was hard to tell there even was a message there. As more became visible, it was possible to recognize a coded word here and there, but it was still difficult to tease out any meaning. It wasn't until most of the squares had been uncovered that the message was revealed.

By cleverly selecting which bits to reveal, Paul and his supporters presented snippets of code that seemed easy to interpret: anti-war (sane foreign policy), anti-neocon (anti-imperialism), etc. Then we turn over some more squares, "international banker" obsession, black=criminal, anti-public education, anti-separation of church and state, etc, that suggested a more sinister message. A detailed overview leaves no square unturned, revealing a hero of the Bircher/Patriot mold who consistently panders to his loyal base, including it's more racist fringes. Turns out this "straight talker" uses deliberately deceptive language to send one message to his base and another to the rest of us. This defender of the Constitution has some radical alterations in store for that "hallowed" document. This lover of liberty counts overt fascists among his most dedicated fans.

It's not that I wouldn't consider supporting a message candidate, I'm just not willing to provide even temporary, tactical support to one whose message make me want to vomit.
Liberal thy name is hypocrisy. What's new?
chlamor
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Ron Paul is a racist

Postby chlamor » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:14 pm

That letter about the riots was racist. I don't give a how anyone can explain Paul's views away as not being racist in terms of Ayn Rand's views on collectivism. This is racism filtered through Paul's libertarian ideology. Similar to the philosemites - they too were racists who pretended they weren't by filtering their bigotry through a layer of ideology.

Quote:
"The Los Angeles and related riots mark a new era in American cultural, political, and economic life. We now know that we are under assault from thugs and revolutionaries who hate Euro-American civilization and everything it stands for: private property,material success for those who earn it, and Christian morality."

That's racist. Paul can say that its not racist because he believes its behavior that has resulted not from race traits but from "collectivism" all he wants and that is still going to be a protofascist sentiment ... which is exactly why the nazis at Stormfront are so stoked about Paul and saying stuff like this

From Stormfront:
"Sure he doesn't come right out and say he is a WN, [White Nationalist] who cares! He promotes agendas and ideas that allow Nationalism to flourish. If we "get there" without having to raise hell, who cares; as long as we finally get what we want. I don't understand why some people do not support this man, Hitler is dead, and we shall probably never see another man like him.

Pat Buchanan's book "Where the Right Went Wrong" is a prime example of getting the point across without having the book banned for anti-semitism. The chapters about the war in Iraq sound like a Bar Mitzvah, but he doesn't have to put the Star of David next to each name for us to know what he means. We are running out of options at this point, and I will take someone is 90% with us versus any of the other choices.

Not to mention if Paul makes a serious run, he legitimizes White Nationalism and Stormfront, for God's sake David Duke is behind this guy!"



Or back to Paul:

"The cause of the riots is plain: barbarism. If the barbarians cannot loot sufficiently through legal channels (i.e., the riots being the welfare-state minus the middleman), they resort to illegal ones, to terrorism.
...

Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began. The "poor"
lined up at the post office to get their handouts (since there were no deliveries)--and then complained about slow service. What if the checks had never arrived? No doubt the blacks would have fully privatized the welfare state through continued looting. But they were paid off and theviolence subsided."



and then this charming passage

"Indeed, it is shocking to consider the uniformity of opinion among blacks in this country. Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty, and the end of welfare and affirmative action. I know many who fall into this group personally and they deserve credit--not as
representatives of a racial group, but as decent people. They are, however, outnumbered. Of black males in Washington, D.C, between the ages of 18 and 35, 42% are charged with a crime or are serving a sentence, reports the National Center on Institutions and Alternatives. The Center also reports that 70% of all black men in Washington are arrested before they reach the age of 35, and 85% are arrested at some point in their lives. Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the "criminal justice system," I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.

If similar in-depth studies were conducted in other major cities, who doubts that similar results would be produced? We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, but it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings, and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."

Yep, not racism. Just criticism of "collectivism" - which in fact gets to what Paul is saying, blacks are the racists. I'll give you this, if Paul's not racist, then neither are a lot of the commentors at Stormfront, because they say the same thing. "I'm not a racist, it's just that blacks blah blah crimes rates blah blah ..."


That's Paul rationalizing his racism through the prism of his libertarian ideology. It reminds me of "philosemitic" antisemites in the 19th century who believed that Jews would lose their "jewness" and become German if they were granted full citizenship. But that didn't happen and the "philosemites" became flat out antisemites.

Paul is saying something similar, that once his libertarian dream-world comes into being "the market" will magically transform blacks from "collectivists" (read: communists) into humans with "sensible" opinions. This is the kind of typical "non racist" racism that you can find littered at a site like Stormfront.

That letter by Paul after the riots is white supremacy 101 ... which is of course why a neo-nazi holocaust denier liked it so much that he posted it to his website.

In the Political Letter that was archived at Nizkor Paul asserts that it is rational to be afraid of black men because 95% of black males in major cities are criminal or semi-criminal and that only 5% of blacks hold "sensible" opinions.
Liberal thy name is hypocrisy. What's new?
chlamor
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby theeKultleeder » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:24 pm

Thanks, Chlamor.
theeKultleeder
 

I would really

Postby chlamor » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:41 pm

theeKultleeder wrote:Thanks, Chlamor.


like to get a peek at the archives of Paul's newsletter. They are held at the University of Wisconsin. If I lived within a days drive I'd go there and seek them out. I suspect they will surface somehow.

It seems if "his people" or the good doctor himself were serious about refuting his hard right positions they would release all of the newsletters to prove that the one that was saved on the internet was indeed just a mistake ghostwritten by an overly ambitious neo-nazi on Paul's payroll. No such luck.

What I have heard, I cannot confirm this, is that in fact Paul's website was scrubbed to eliminate some of his more "controversial" pieces as he gained national prominence.

I also think the ghostwriter excuse is bullshit. I'm betting that if you're in a small political movement, people will come up to you and talk about the articles in your newsletter. If so, there's no way you can fail to know about repeated themes, especially if they have some emotional resonance.

Even if a staffer was writing about their personal beliefs rather than Paul's, Paul would have found out. If Paul thought those beliefs were offensive, he could have repudiated them, or at least said that they were no longer welcome in his newsletter.

I do really find this extraordinarily disturbing that Ron Paul has become some sort of eccentric spokesman for "American Ideals" and I wish I was surprised. Then again maybe he actually is and that's even more disturbing.
Liberal thy name is hypocrisy. What's new?
chlamor
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby sunny » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:45 pm

Fuck Ron Paul
Choose love
sunny
 
Posts: 5220
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 10:18 pm
Location: Alabama
Blog: View Blog (1)

Postby monster » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:54 pm

Ron Paul is awesome. He calls it like he sees it, whether it's politically correct or not.
User avatar
monster
 
Posts: 1712
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:55 pm
Location: Everywhere
Blog: View Blog (0)

Not really

Postby chlamor » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:00 pm

monster wrote:Ron Paul is awesome. He calls it like he sees it, whether it's politically correct or not.


We may differ on what we mean by "awesome."

Archie Bunker: "I calls it as I sees it."

There's nothing new or unique about Ron Paul's "straightforward and anti-war statements," not even among Republicans. I remember back in 2000 there was a Republican presidential candidate who was saying very similar things. Like Paul, he decried US military adventurism and championed a strict non-interventionist policy. Like Paul, he was a principled opponent of domestic spying, secret courts, and the general erosion our civil liberties in the name of anti-terrorism. He spoke out strongly against such practices at a time when nobody on either side of the aisle seemed to be paying much attention to them, and it was this, even more than his unusually even-handed attitude toward Israel that won him unprecedented support from the Muslim-American community.

He, too, had his political baggage. Like Paul, he'd been associated with some pretty "undemocratic groups." Unlike Paul he had no documented record of overtly racist statements that required repudiation, but he too, found it necessary to distance himself from those movements and publicly oppose many of their more extreme political stands. Despite this apparent betrayal, these groups never wavered in their support for them, a fact that gave me pause at the time, and is equally a matter of concern in regard to Ron Paul today. Ron Paul has not even repudiated these alliances and has in fact restated his philosophical agreements with John Birchers.

I was never a fan of the guy, but I can't deny his influence on my political attitudes. One thing he said really stuck with me and seems particularly appropriate to the subject at hand:"Fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."
Liberal thy name is hypocrisy. What's new?
chlamor
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby theeKultleeder » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:00 pm

monster wrote:Ron Paul is awesome. He calls it like he sees it, whether it's politically correct or not.


Hmmm, I guess you don't want me to have sex... Nice, cool... I think you should be forcefully sterilized. Are we even??

Edit: and how even are we? It can be proven with numbers that straight men and clergy are more likely to rape children... hmmm... I guess that's your party... You know "God bless the Flag" before homoerotic wrestling...

FUCK RON PAUL
Last edited by theeKultleeder on Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
theeKultleeder
 

Postby ninakat » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:05 pm

monster wrote:Ron Paul is awesome. He calls it like he sees it, whether it's politically correct or not.


Does that make David Duke awesome too? Just asking.
User avatar
ninakat
 
Posts: 2904
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: "Nothing he's got he really needs."
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 155 guests